Building Permission for Shipping Container Shed/Workshop?

https://epitesijog.hu/144-mihez-nem-szu … i-engedely

A 312/2012. (XI. 8.) Korm. rendelet 1. számú melléklete alapján építési engedély nélkül végezhető tevékenységek [1]:

   -     Nem emberi tartózkodásra szolgáló építmény építése, átalakítása, felújítása, valamint bővítése, amelynek mérete az építési tevékenység után sem haladja meg a nettó 100 m3 térfogatot és 4,5 m gerincmagasságot[8] [9].


However, you should ask the city council.
Also, the building regulation states that:

https://net.jogtar.hu/jr/gen/hjegy_doc. … 700253.KOR

53. Huzamos tartózkodásra szolgáló helyiség: olyan helyiség, amelynek a használata folyamatosan két óra időtartamot meghaladó, vagy amelynél a használatok közötti szünet időtartama a két órát nem éri el.

So if you plan to work it, then the law seems to state you need permissions.

Ask the city council.

Hmmm....thanks.

Not sure this applies as it's not living space as such.

As in all things bureaucratic, my thoughts are around being forearmed is forewarned....

I wonder about an argument that a shipping container used as a shed is not actually a building. It's more like a caravan without wheels and by definition, temporary.  Container would be a lot more secure.  I've seen other people around here have containers on their land which they store their gardening stuff in.   I am sure they did not ask anyone about using it.

Certainly easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I am sure they did not ask anyone about using it.

I am also sure they didn't.

But I agree with Rawlee. I would also officially ask about it first. While it is certainly easier to ask for forgiveness than permission (especially here -- getting permission can be difficult if you do anything even slightly "different") but my world view is that expats are guests. And further my way of thinking goes as: just because the family in the house puts their feet on the furniture does not mean the guest should necessarily do so also, at least not without first asking if it okay. But that is just me.

However, I would skip the city council. They too often are clueless. If you have a competent local notary then you can directly ask the notary. I recommend going straight to the local government housing and construction office. I always get good answers from them. It is their field.

Its one of those grey areas, like advertising signs, you need to ask for planning permission, but if its a sign on a trailer you don't as its a moveable object and not a permanent fitting.

SimCityAT wrote:

Its one of those grey areas, like advertising signs, you need to ask for planning permission, but if its a sign on a trailer you don't as its a moveable object and not a permanent fitting.

Well.... In Hungary, if you park the trailer for 2 minutes, some official may come by expressing his differing opinion anyway and say it is now a fixed location. If you demand to see the law that backs this up, and all h*** may break loose.

We had a "disagreement" about property line once with a neighbor. It became quite a cavalcade. The mayor showed up. The prior property owner showed up. The police showed up. Everyone expressing various opinions, all ignoring the official (but unstamped) map we had from the land office. It was ridiculous.

If nothing else, the one thing I have learned here is get everything approved, signed and stamped (for God's sake, you have to get that those all important stamps). Wag that stamped document under someone's nose, and then, and only then, do they back off. Stamps on documents are like gold here. Be golden. Get the stamps.

klsallee wrote:

....
Well.... In Hungary, if you park the trailer for 2 minutes, some official may come by expressing his differing opinion anyway and say it is now a fixed location. If you demand to see the law that backs this up, and all h*** may break loose.

We had a "disagreement" about property line once with a neighbor. It became quite a cavalcade. The mayor showed up. The prior property owner showed up. The police showed up. Everyone expressing various opinions, all ignoring the official (but unstamped) map we had from the land office. It was ridiculous.

If nothing else, the one thing I have learned here is get everything approved, signed and stamped (for God's sake, you have to get that those all important stamps). Wag that stamped document under someone's nose, and then, and only then, do they back off. Stamps on documents are like gold here. Be golden. Get the stamps.

Yes, I think it'll be a more serious problem ONLY if the neighbours complain.  And some of them probably would.  I've seen shipping containers on agricultural land used for all sorts of things including stables and storage of gardening gear. Shipping containers aren't exactly pretty but they are handy as "temporary" and cheap but secure storage units.  I also see people have wooden sheds.  I doubt they had permission for those.  My proposed container will be a bit substantial - up to 30ft long.  Not like I can hide it.  And not really a shed as such.  I think I'm on dodgy ground with this one.

BTW, still haven't solved our land dispute.  Turns out we need a building inspector to issue a permit before the land registry will issue the decision that means we can move our fence.  And what is holding up the permit?  This is ludicrous - some "unfinished" cables left by the electrician.  These aren't even connected to anything but are there ready to be connected during future landscaping. Classic chicken and egg - cannot landscape as need construction in the garden, cannot do construction as I don't have a permit and which I cannot get unless I landscape or at least "remove" (aka hide) the cables.  D'oh.

fluffy2560 wrote:

My proposed container will be a bit substantial - up to 30ft long.  Not like I can hide it.

A green wall (aka living wall) could at least camouflage it.

fluffy2560 wrote:

BTW, still haven't solved our land dispute.  Turns out we need a building inspector to issue a permit before the land registry will issue the decision that means we can move our fence.  And what is holding up the permit?  This is ludicrous - some "unfinished" cables left by the electrician.  These aren't even connected to anything but are there ready to be connected during future landscaping. Classic chicken and egg - cannot landscape as need construction in the garden, cannot do construction as I don't have a permit and which I cannot get unless I landscape or at least "remove" (aka hide) the cables.  D'oh.

And then you probably need a permit to remove them the cables. But that will require the inspector to see your permit used to install them before you can get a permit to remove them.....

klsallee wrote:

...
A green wall (aka living wall) could at least camouflage it.

Yes, I thought if I painted it green with trees on it or camo style, no-one will complain too much.  I can put some fast growing trees around it but it would take 5 years before it would be partially hidden.   Another thought I had was to partially bury it.

klsallee wrote:

......
And then you probably need a permit to remove them the cables. But that will require the inspector to see your permit used to install them before you can get a permit to remove them.....

We had a government guy come to inspect our chimney.  As it's all brand new, we'd had an inspection only a few months before when another guy was there giving us a  permit for our chimney.  The 2nd guy just looked at it from about 10m away and said, oh it's all new, signed the paper and left.  Took less than 1 minutes.  Obviously the left and right hands not communicating.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The 2nd guy just looked at it from about 10m away and said, oh it's all new, signed the paper and left.  Took less than 1 minutes.

Unfortunately, that is the other side of the problem here. Some field inspectors who do not want to be bothered to actually do their job.

I had a new chimney put in. I like my general contractor, but their workers started putting in the new flue pipes upside down (yes, they have a correct direction). I corrected them as I was there watching. Just looking from the outside means zero.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

The 2nd guy just looked at it from about 10m away and said, oh it's all new, signed the paper and left.  Took less than 1 minutes.

Unfortunately, that is the other side of the problem here. Some field inspectors who do not want to be bothered to actually do their job.

I had a new chimney put in. I like my general contractor, but their workers started putting in the new flue pipes upside down (yes, they have a correct direction). I corrected them as I was there watching. Just looking from the outside means zero.

I could weld some fake wheels onto the container and say it's a caravan.  Or just paint a caravan picture on the side.  From 10m away, it might just do it.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I could weld some fake wheels onto the container and say it's a caravan.  Or just paint a caravan picture on the side.  From 10m away, it might just do it.

Good idea. Or get one of those "auto body" wraps to make it look like a cargo container, but tell everyone it is really a caravan underneath.

Or plaster the sides with all those current government posters (you know the ones I mean). That way nobody would bother you.

Or maybe that is all too complicated, and maybe it would be best to just paint it with invisible ink.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I could weld some fake wheels onto the container and say it's a caravan.  Or just paint a caravan picture on the side.  From 10m away, it might just do it.

Good idea. Or get one of those "auto body" wraps to make it look like a cargo container, but tell everyone it is really a caravan underneath.

I am thinking of communing with the container to convince it that it's really a caravan.   That's the problem with inanimate objects, they just don't have ambition and drive to be all they can.   

klsallee wrote:

Or plaster the sides with all those current government posters (you know the ones I mean). That way nobody would bother you.

In this place, that is actually the most plausible solution. 

klsallee wrote:

Or maybe that is all too complicated, and maybe it would be best to just paint it with invisible ink.

If I commune with the container, I could try and convince the it that if it looks the other way when the inspectors are around then if it cannot see them, they cannot see it.   

Other options I'm considering - mass hypnosis or proving we're actually living in a simulation -  "there is no container"

fluffy2560 wrote:

I am thinking of communing with the container to convince it that it's really a caravan.   That's the problem with inanimate objects, they just don't have ambition and drive to be all they can.

Yes. It is like talking to a wall at times.....

fluffy2560 wrote:

Other options I'm considering - mass hypnosis or proving we're actually living in a simulation

Go for it. You may become the Hungarian Shadow and learn to “cloud men’s minds”.

klsallee wrote:

...
Go for it. You may become the Hungarian Shadow and learn to “cloud men’s minds”.

Pfff....Shadow.....amateur hour.....

I work in a technical subject so I already trade in professional confusion.   I've started a self learning Bitcoin course to make sure I can keep baffling them and myself.    I'm already thinking post-Bitcoin - half-(assed) planning to put a container/shed in a hollowed out volcano and a large laser on a satellite.  Try and stop me if you dare local planning department! 

Actually now I've said that I've just realised you've got an ex-volcano near you.  Bit far to go for a lawnmower and a pair of snippers.

Fluffy Bond

fluffy2560 wrote:

Actually now I've said that I've just realised you've got an ex-volcano near you.  Bit far to go for a lawnmower and a pair of snippers.

Didn't I tell you? I invented teleportation. But don't tell anybody. I am trying to sell the idea to Amazon.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've started a self learning Bitcoin course to make sure I can keep baffling them and myself.    I'm already thinking post-Bitcoin - half-(assed) planning to put a container/shed in a hollowed out volcano and a large laser on a satellite.  Try and stop me if you dare local planning department!

The Laser. Won't that require a lot of diamonds?

Didn't I tell you? I invented a way to make diamonds from old socks and dog hair using an old washing machine and an angle grinder. But don't tell anyone. I am trying to sell the idea to SPECTRE.

Dunno about diamonds, I'm old school so it's rubies for me.

I've always thought teleportation was a bit ridiculous.  Surely the target reconstituted materials just make up a copy of the original while the original is destroyed in the process.  I remember watching a short cartoon many years ago and I throughly enjoyed: John Weldon's To Be

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've started a self learning Bitcoin course to make sure I can keep baffling them and myself.    I'm already thinking post-Bitcoin - half-(assed) planning to put a container/shed in a hollowed out volcano and a large laser on a satellite.  Try and stop me if you dare local planning department!

The Laser. Won't that require a lot of diamonds?

Didn't I tell you? I invented a way to make diamonds from old socks and dog hair using an old washing machine and an angle grinder. But don't tell anyone. I am trying to sell the idea to SPECTRE.

Hmmmm...good tip.....I've been using a tumble dryer and chicken feathers. 

Now I realise where I've been going wrong.  Clearly I had the flux capacitor in backwards.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've been using a tumble dryer and chicken feathers.

Actually, the tumble dryer is use for the teleportation, not diamond making. And chicken feathers will only cause one sock of any pair to teleport. You may have noticed that.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've been using a tumble dryer and chicken feathers.

Actually, the tumble dryer is use for the teleportation, not diamond making. And chicken feathers will only cause one sock of any pair to teleport. You may have noticed that.

I'm obviously in the virtual presence of the Meister.   

There's also that issue of everything ending up in a ball inside a pillowcase when using the dryer. 

Many of these problems are just a natural consequence of using cheap Lidl dilithium crystals.  Aldi had sold out that day.  As soon as you put any advanced technology on sale here, it's just gone until next year until the next phase shift occurs.

Qapla!

fluffy2560 wrote:

There's also that issue of everything ending up in a ball inside a pillowcase when using the dryer.

Ah. Yes. The cloths dryer pillowcase gravitational vortex first discovered by Sir Percivale T. Goosedownery PhD, Failed, In 1643. Which is all the more amazing since the cloths dryer had not been invented yet. As everyone knows, that product was not invented until 1645, but did not become popular until the large scale development of electrical wall outlet plugs in the 20th century.

Interesting side note: the grand unification theory (GUT) and the actual cause of the cloths dryer pillowcase gravitational vortex (CDPGV) are still the two biggest unsolved problems in physics today.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Many of these problems are just a natural consequence of using cheap Lidl dilithium crystals.  Aldi had sold out that day.  As soon as you put any advanced technology on sale here, it's just gone until next year until the next phase shift occurs.

Those phase shifts are annoying for sure. Even worse are the sip streams, occurring after nursing a few pints of beer. And what a pity. Aldi dilithium crystals are indeed better. But I hope you picked up a set of the ceramic knives in the bin right next to where the dilithium crystals were located. Those knives have been there for months now. Seems nobody wants them.

By the way, didn't I tell you I have a dilithium mine here on my property? But don't tell anyone. I am trying to sell them to the United Federation of Planets. I know that organization will not be founded until 2161, but I am a patient man, and I can wait.