Immigration and Overstay Issues

Jean, they have only an emotional/legalistic argument, not a rational one.  For some it's just that since they have blown thousands, and the time and hassle, they think everybody should. 
Regarding driving, once I even had my moto taken away by the cops. Then even when going thru the arduous process of getting it back, none of the many cops, burocrats etc in loved cared about not having a local licence..

Lennox....its why I suggested the experiment.   So starting today, let's see current data flood in, from those entering and leaving(since you reject past data that contradicts you).   
    Even your supposed benefits are only theoretical, not reality based.  For my moto, I just buy or sell as I wish, 400pesos a year insurance that cops accept. , they dont know or care that I'm an illegal. Same for renting places.

Some people are comfortable being illegally in the country.

To those, I say, carry on.

Windeguy, yes and ....comfort ...is one of those emotional issues I mentioned above.   But I'm looking forward to the experiment results.

Lennox you provided ample examples of change. 

Lots of you have provided your statements that you have been doing it forever so what's the big deal....

Once again I will remind you all that the owners of this site support and encourage following the law and having legal status. 

This govt has clearly shown us their intent. 

Now we simply wait and see what happens.

Apparently the airlines have been told to implement the use of electronic E ticket 100% from the beginning of September as defined in JAC Resolution 178-2021 and no more paper forms will be allowed.

Resolución No. 178-2021 - lnforme sobre el uso del Ticket Electrónico de entrada y salida de la Republica Dominicana (E-Ticket).

Can be found on the JAC site to read in full:

http://www.jac.gob.do/index.php/resoluc … 11-08-2021

Pre-checking of all passengers is part of the modernisation process taking place.

I have been refused an 'online' check-in/boarding pass on United.

Checking in at the airport - I asked 'Why?"

I hadn't uploaded the form....
they said sometimes that is why

Next trip -  uploaded - no problems

Live & Learn

We invested in the country buying a condo and spend a lot of money while there for 3-4 months a year and have no problem paying our overstay penalty of about $100 between my wife and I.  The government in Dominican won't create a longer stay Visa option as they love collecting all these fees every year.  Goes right in their corrupt pockets when maybe they should use it to fix up the roads and clean the main streets in Punta Cana / El Cortecito etc.  We love the D.R and have now purchased a nice lot in the Vista Cana project to build our retirement home.

Strange timing?

DGM posted this notice yesterday on their website.

https://migracion.gob.do/en/resolution- … uirements/

It relates to a DGM Resolution from 2013 which lays out the rules for entry and departure of non residents.

https://migracion.gob.do/transparencia/ … nicana.pdf

and finally we can see that the overstay fee is as such not a 'work around' after all. It is defined in this resolution as a La Penalidad o Taza de Estadia. Page 5 of the Resolution, 6th point. And can be amended by DGM as they see fit.

I believe the fee for staying over 30 day tourist visa is $50......is this correct as I will be doing so November 26 to Jan 12

So to clarify its a PENALTY and not an administrative work around.

parrottguy1 wrote:

I believe the fee for staying over 30 day tourist visa is $50......is this correct as I will be doing so November 26 to Jan 12

If you know you'll be here for longer than 30 days, it is best to request a stay extension and remain legal status.

Staying Extension

Since the overstay fines paid as you go,  and the fee paid before , are not really part of DR Migracion laws, but rather regulations not based upon laws, I suspect they are still technically work arounds. 

Calling them a fine, OK, I can see that as an argument they are not a workaround for those that simply pay as they go, but that is still just a regulation and not a law.

As of yet, no big deal to overstay repeatedly has come up.

It is an economic penalty assessed from time to time by the 'system' justified by virtue of  the wording in the Immigration Law 285-04 Article 140:

Sixth: The Penalty or Rate of Stay. By virtue of Article 140 of the Law(285-04), which authorizes the payment of migratory rights and services, those foreign citizens who exceed the period of permanence or stay that has been granted by the immigration officer of entry, without having requested and obtained a single extension of stay or permanence before the DGM, will be penalized economically with the collection of the rate of stay. For this purpose, the fee of stay will be charged in accordance with the provisions emanating from the competent authority and according to the billing details issued by the system.

Sexto: De la Penalidad o Taza de Estadia
En virtud de Articulo 140 de la Ley, que faculta el pago de derechos y servicios migratorios, aquellos ciudadanos extraneros que excedieren el perioda de permanencia o estadia que le ha sido concedido por el oficial migratorio de entrada, sin que haya soliciitado y obtenido una unica prorroga de estadia o permanencia ante la DGM, seran penalizados economicamente con el cobro de la taza de estadia. A tales fines la taza de estadia se cobrara conforme a las disposiciones emanadas de la autoridad competente y segun las precisions de facturacion emitadas por el Sistema.

Hopefully there is no need to reproduce Article 140 of Ley 285-04 to demonstate this all ties in?

Back to the question: Why has DGM decided to post a notice about this resolution 8 years after it was issued?

I think this may be to do with knowing where non residents stay in DR and about their return journey. Specifically Haitians are in the spotlight but it spills over to all non residents. Your law must apply to all. Dealing with Haitians is probably the larger problem.

Capitulo 2
De La Estadia, Sus Plazos, y la Violacion de Los Mismos (of the stay, it's terms and the violation of the same)
Cuarto: De Los Plazos de La Estadia (of the terms of the stay)

double posted somehow and so deleted

Haitians don't come in on tourist cards, so paying exit fines does not apply to them.

Actually they do apply if verifiable.  Otherwise they are held and then deported!

As an economics major and a real estate agent in Canada I will tell you EXACTLY why the government won't end the fee system.  If they require all the people like us which make up a huge majority of the expats to get residency then your economy will suffer immensely.  We are spending $1000s in the restaurants, grocery stores, etc plus we are buying up the properties and investing in the country creating jobs for workers.  Never mind the amount of fees the government is collecting every year.  If we needed residency we wouldn't have purchased our condo nor the piece of land in Vista Cana to build a big home on.  You would have way less development meaning way less jobs and a struggling economy.  We spend about $15,000 US just while we are here for those 3-4 months.  Eventually we will apply once the house is almost built as we will be here almost full time but the main point is that we would have never invested in the first place if it was a requirement.  Maybe the government should concentrate on removing all the illegal Haitians here first and fix the main roads in the tourist areas considering we are paying a rediculous 18% tax on everything.  They had a few years to do it during covid and only recently have done a few streets but left the main drag through Cortecito still full of deep unpassable pot holes.  How hard is it to at least throw some crushed limestone in the holes until they decide to pave?  Cars literally have to line up single file at one spot as a super deep pot hole exists on both sides so only the middle of the road is driveable and this is the main road to multiple resorts.  The trash on the side of the roads is also terrible.  If the govt is too corrupt to spend then take the inmates and make them pick up the trash like other countries do!!  We go to Los Corales beach and the main pathway to get there is lined with trash on both sides.  For any other country the relies so heavily on tourism, clean streets for at least first impression would be a major priority.  We love the Dominican Republic and many of the great people who live here that we meet but with just a little effort it could be so much more inviting.  First impression is everything for many Expats and driving into resorts looking at that crap is not the right impression to have people want to invest or travel outside the resorts to enjoy local restaurants etc.  Said my piece and hopefully some can see why the fees are actually the best system for both the Expats and the country.  We stay, play, and pay which is the driver of the Dominican economy.

Let me get this right - you think that several thousand expats staying illegally  and "contributing" to the local economy has a major impact on  the gov't decisions?

Of course it does!!  18% tax on everything we spend, jobs created that again they can tax, plus the exit fees equals more money to line their pockets.  Pretty simple economics.  Plus many are renting out their condo/villas when not there bringing in way more who are spending money and paying taxes etc.  No Expats equals less investments, less taxes paid, less jobs and less fees.  Can't break it down any easier than that.

From a policy perspective, the government would be well served to incentivize expats to invest and spend as seamlessly as possible even benignly, as soldbymike implies.  Besides tourism, those retired or remote working expats provide a stream of income from outside the country that the DR desperately needs.  As the saying goes:  "its free money".  In this forum and on others we see intense interest on the part of foreigners in moving here.  If they see a logical and painless way to move here, we see no apparent harm to the DR and at minimal cost to the government.  We see a lot of parallels to Costa Rica which has become a strong magnet to expats investing and living there.  DR is closer to the US and Canada and, we would argue, in many ways as attractive as Costa Rica.

The  incentives already exist.  We are still one of the easiest places to move to and live legally. 

Every country has the right to control who lives here and who visits here and for how long. Its really quite simple.

So please tell us how we have a negative effect on the country by government allowing it.  You keep posting against it with nothing  concrete to add.

It is a no brainer.

You can contribute much more to the country and it's security by being a legal resident, either through the competative residency options available or if you prefer through the 120 staying extension. You also get greater rights being legally here.

Like all other countries this government wants long term stayers in a legal situation who can fulfil the financial, health and security criteria set.

It sounds as though you can do so too, so why don't you choose a legal stay?

As a non resident overstaying you are contributing to a larger insecurity situation currently being faced by DR by being part of a group that includes people of dubious character and soon could include many more. Read the current news here and you will understand.

Exactly! And all of us who entered and stay in the country legally are also spending money, buying property, employing locals, and doing all the other things that you claim illegals add to the economy. The difference is that the DR has been able to vet me and my financial security before allowing me to stay.

The fees I pay to the government for residency are not much more than I'd be paying in overstay fees, so to me, it's a no-brainer! I love this country and respect its laws.

I can't imagine living any other way. And I don't have to worry that on some flight back to DR in the future, someone will decide that they aren't going to let me in!

The problems of the current dire insecurity of Haiti are major news here now. And strong action is demanded.

And whilst expats staying here in an undocumented manner may think they are not a problem, the reality is that they are, even if a small part of the problem.

DR has had a modern Immigration Law since 2004 but it has not been implemented and as a result there is a large number of various nationalities living and working here in an illegal state. The government does not know exactly where they all are. For sure there are large numbers living near the main tourist area of the East Coast in Veron. And now we have the gangs of Haiti operating very close to the border with DR and there is a huge concern they may infiltrate this country and introduce more crime and violence. For this reason visas for Haitian students were suspended very recently.

DR really needs to get a handle on all illegal immigrants staying here and whilst you may think you are not a risk, the Colombian or Pervian or even North American or European living the same good quality life next door may be an undesirable and pose a security risk. Thats why long term stayers need to have the financial, security and health checks carried out for the good of the whole.

Abinader ensures national security is above trade

https://eldia.com.do/abinader-asegura-s … -comercio/

The President of the Republic, Luis Abinader, assured today that national security is above trade and the migratory status of Haitian students.

When approached by journalists, the president emphatically stressed that he is committed to protecting the country, explaining that the measures adopted seek to prevent the incursion of Haitian gangs and other camouflaged sectors.

“All Haitian students who are in the country do not change their status and they will not have problems, what is being said is that there will be no automatic renewal and we have to check them because I have to protect this country. If there they do not check or have any system, here they do, "replied the president as he hit the table.

He added that yesterday the Prime Minister of Haiti, Ariel Henry, communicated yesterday through diplomatic channels to report that he wishes to maintain the best relations with the Dominican Republic and that he does not agree with any communication that was reckless.

"Minister Henry has always had fluid communication since he took office and we will communicate with him in due course," said the head of state.

When questioned about the advance of the armed groups in the city of Juana Méndez, Abinader added that between trade and security he chooses security, for which he specified that in the border area surveillance was increased with the deployment of more than 3,500 soldiers added to all intelligence services.

"We will continue taking measures to guarantee the integrity of our territory and that the country is not affected by the instability of Haiti," the president emphasized.

Abinader on Haitian student visa
President Luis Abinader said today that the decision to indefinitely pause the special visa program for Haitian students in the Dominican Republic,  the head of state clarified that these students will not have any problem because this measure does not change their status.

«I have to protect this country. All Haitian students who are here in the country do not change their status, they will not have any problem here, what is being said is that there will not be an automatic renewal, and that we have to check them because I have to protect this country, and check that no one from the gang enters here, or that they are linked to other camouflaged sectors because if they do not check there, if they do not have any system, here they do because this is an organized society ¨, said Abinader.

Likewise, the president revealed that the Prime Minister of Haiti, Ariel Henry, has expressed his interest in strengthening relations between Haiti and the Dominican Republic.

and to which he refers

Advance of gangs in Juana Méndez puts supply chain at risk

https://eldia.com.do/avance-de-bandas-e … ministros/

The advance of armed gangs in the north of Haiti, specifically in the city of Juana Méndez, could interrupt the supply chain, affect imports and exports of products, free zone operations and, at the same time, the workforce from the neighboring country and the Dominican Republic........

We have also had numerous cases of South Americans being arrested recently as part of drug activities.

When you say heath issues what exactly are you speaking of?

montuspeese wrote:

When you say heath issues what exactly are you speaking of?

Sexually transmitted diseases, drug dependency and tuberculoisis are the main checks sought now.

montuspeese wrote:

When you say heath issues what exactly are you speaking of?

If you are referring to Lennox's comments about health checks, he's talking about the vetting process for residency. To apply for a residency visa, you must have a letter from your doctor confirming you are in good health and have no communicable diseases. With your application for residency in Santo Domingo, you will have a physical exam that includes a chest x-ray, blood work, and urinalysis. They test for drug use, HIV, TB, and other things.

Ok thanks

The group being discussed here is so infinitesimal it doesn't deserve attention

In a normal year 7,000,000 visitors arrive and support the economy....
A few thousand overstayers are significant ???

I don't think so.

Watch your hat size - seems to be swelling !!

soldbymike wrote:

Of course it does!!  18% tax on everything we spend, jobs created that again they can tax, plus the exit fees equals more money to line their pockets.  Pretty simple economics.  Plus many are renting out their condo/villas when not there bringing in way more who are spending money and paying taxes etc.  No Expats equals less investments, less taxes paid, less jobs and less fees.  Can't break it down any easier than that.

The few thousand people who are snowbirds and others that overstay tourist cards are a drop in the ocean compared to the revenues the government gets from Millions of AI tourists and many thousands of Cruisers. Those people are the ones who matter to the economy. 

That is the reason there is no focus on the mere thousands that overstay tourist cards.

planner wrote:

So to clarify its a PENALTY and not an administrative work around.

They are a penalty due to an administrative work around. 

Years ago I asked the legal team at https://drlawyer.com/ what the overstay fees were.

Fee/Fine?  Whatever you call them, Guzman Ariza told me they are indeed an administrative work around to the laws created in 2003 by what is now the PRM, and ignored by the PLD for many years while they were in power.

The PRM is now in charge and may or may not enforce the actual laws.  Keeping the fines in place shows me they are not enforcing the laws, but rather continuing the work around with regulations.

Perhaps you can explain why applying what is written in Article 140 of the Immigration Law is a work around?

Letting people overstay and just pay a tariff as a penalty without the other consequences defined in the Immigration Law is the work around or perhaps to be more blunt, a past and present negligence in applying that law in full.

Double standatds are in play for sure depending if you come from our neighbouring country or not. Over 4k got deported last month and I bet many were welcomed doing manual work helping the economy too.

lennoxnev wrote:

Perhaps you can explain why applying what is written in Article 140 of the Immigration Law is a work around?

.

Almost ALL countries have different regulations for people form different countries.  Nothing at all unusual about that and it is not a double standard unless you consider all countries to have double, triple or even quadruple standards on the hoops various people need to go through to enter.  I can write a book on what it took to get my wife into the USA to visit my mother.

Haiti has the DR in a position where it cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. 
[link under review]

... to the laws created in 2003 by what is now the PRM, and ignored by the PLD for many years while they were in power.

The PRM is not a new name of the PRD which still exists. PRD just did not contest Presidential elections in 2016 and 2020.

The PLD did start the enforcement of that 2003 laws in the beginning of 2018, it is to say two years and a half before Abinader was sworn in. The pandemic froze the actions but not the will.

In the years 2000, 2001 and 2002 it was still possible to live in the DR without any document. It was not only possible, it was normal. I met people at the disco telling me "look, I live here without residency, the police know it, but they do not care. In the DR you can do what you want". The police officers were in the same disco drinking with expats. The 2003 laws address this state of fact.

lennoxnev wrote:

Perhaps you can explain why applying what is written in Article 140 of the Immigration Law is a work around?

Letting people overstay and just pay a tariff as a penalty without the other consequences defined in the Immigration Law is the work around or perhaps to be more blunt, a past and present negligence in applying that law in full.

Double standatds are in play for sure depending if you come from our neighbouring country or not. Over 4k got deported last month and I bet many were welcomed doing manual work helping the economy too.

Article 140 translated by the experts on the Internet:

Art. 140.- The Executive Power by decree will set the amounts for rights that must be paid for the benefits granted by this law, as well as for the services provided and documents issued by the General Directorate of Migration or any other competent authority, which they are indicated below: 1. Permanent Residence. 2. Temporary Residence. 3. Renewal of Permanent Residence or Temporary Residence. 4. Re-entry permit for foreigners. 5. Certificate of proof of residence. 6. Right of issuance by card of Resident and Temporary Worker. 7. Stay Permit for Temporary Workers. 8. Right to request an extension. 9. Certificate of proof of entry and exit. 10. Right for loss of the Tourist Card. 11. Enlist and unenlist maritime crews. 12. Payment for services of immigration control inspectors outside of normal hours. 13. Right to Cross the Border. 14. Right of custody of a foreign person in transit. 15. For any other service in compliance with the provisions of this law and its regulations.


None of the above includes  provisions for the paying a fine to stay over 30 days on a tourist card. I will have to find the actual law that concerns the tourist card for that to be made clear. All the above is about legal residency, work visas and what happens if you lose a tourist card which you no longer have in your possession any way.

I do agree it is confusing and years ago Guzman Ariza told me that overstaying a tourist card and paying fines had ZERO to do with any DR law.

15 does

lennoxnev wrote:

15 does

I knew you would say that!  Yet I disagree it applies to the tourist card laws and still need to provide proof.

If  the laws are enforced as written , this is what happened once and quickly slid away into the darkness.  You might recall this happening. If the paying of a fine on exit makes one legal, this could never have even happened, not once, not ever:


https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowTopic-g1 … minic.html