Concerned over crime wave

Murder in the island has been traditionally compartmentalized to the drug trade. And these numbers grow because every death and arrest leaves a lucrative opening in the drug market that many young gang members are more than willing to kill and die for. Thug mentality is glorified by some of our subcultures. (Did I just say that drug trade murders are part of our traditions?)

A member of my extended family died in Juncos last week in a shootout. When I asked my father about my 3rd cousin he told me that the young man was involved in the drug trade and had previously spent some time in jail in the states. This type of killing doesn't really bother me not only because I am used to it but because I know that it is relatively easy to stay away from. However, this type of violent crime does spill out on the general population from time to time. I won't lie to you about this to make you feel safer about your decision to move to the island.

Of the three recent murders in the Condado area only the murder of the hairstylist makes me feel uneasy. The crime hasn't been resolved and not knowing its motif or if it indicative of a new crime pattern bothers me. The other two crimes, while tragic, were either expected or isolated and random.

Orlando Ramos Ortiz was killed in the parking lot of the Concha hotel in Condado. He was a well known pimp that delivered prostitutes and drugs to the hotels of the metropolitan area. Life expectancy in that profession tends to be low. The main suspect of the murder is George Tsouratakis, a man from New Jersey.

Julian Romero Rodriguez, the young man who was killed in Condado, was stabbed by a 14 year old after the victim's girlfriend decided to fight to stop the robbery. The sociopathic 14 year old had just gotten out of juvie and is said to be responsible for a number of robberies in the area. He is in jail at the moment awaiting trial.

If these patterns change in a way that affects the general population more directly I will be the first one to post about it on this forum. I will do it, of course, from the airport.

TLDR: Violent crime in the island is as high as always. The recent murders in Condado are not indicative of a new pattern.

I agree with Adolfo - most of the violent crimes are drugs related. The main problem with those shootouts is that if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time you are in bad luck.

adolfojp wrote:

A member of my extended family died in Juncos last week in a shootout. When I asked my father about my 3rd cousin he told me that the young man was involved in the drug trade and had previously spent some time in jail in the states.

That was 'round the corner from where I live, less than a 5 min. drive from my house. Drugs related once more..

Adolfo and Gary will probably give you the most sound and objective feedback on crime in PR. It's true that there is a lot of crime on the island. But for the most part it's like here in the states, you learn what areas to avoid. Not to diminish the amount of crime reported in PR, but I've also found that the news people on the island report on a great deal of the crimes. So naturally as a result you hear about it constantly. So it becomes worrisome. On the other hand, where I live in Virginia it's a very high crime area. But if you read the paper and watch the news you would think relatively nothing happens around here. My guess is that so much is going on that only the real sensational stuff is newsworthy. A couple of years ago a bunch of thugs stood right next to our patio(which is under our bedroom window)and shot out the large sliding glass doors in the townhouse behind us at 5am. It sounded like the shootout at the OK corral. But it never made the paper or the evening news. A lot of crime goes unreported or under reported all the time here.
I wouldn't let it keep you from moving to PR. Just learn where to stay away from, always be alert and don't look like a victim(looking fearful and keeping an eye out over your shoulder all the time). Act like you belong where you are and chances are you won't get noticed. The same can be said for any large city in the world you might want to live in.

Gregg

Here is a selection of posts I've previously made about crime in PR:

CRIME

"The security you've observed is normal and is also something to worry about. Although saying so may upset some of our fellow contributors, rates for burglaries and violent crime are statistically much higher in Puerto Rico than in the States.

At a minimum, buy a good guard dog, although I say that knowing that I have had Puerto Rican friends with excellent guard dogs who were burglarized after the thieves first poisoned the animals. A good rule of thumb is that if your dog dies a mysterious and painful death, be prepared for someone to be climbing over your fence within a few nights.

[I've just re-read the above and please excuse my comment if it sounds menacing. I just want to give you my honest impression.]"

"To make the story even worse, one of my friends who was burglarized after his dog was poisoned was a cop, everyone in the neighborhood knew he was a cop, and yet that didn't deter some crackheads with ties to the area breaking into his house four times in one year (and they knew he was home when they did it three of those times).

I'd like to add something constructive to this thread, but as it involves crime in Puerto Rico, there really isn't anything positive to say."

"Unfortunately, many country towns/areas suffer from high rates of property crime. My story about the cop and the poisoned dog did not take place in the metropolitan area or on one of the smaller islands such as Vieques, where property crime is now epidemic.

The criminal justice system here is in shambles. Crimes are rarely solved and even when they are, the outcome is nearly always entirely inadequate. This results in a high percentage of repeat offenders (of even violent crimes) free to wreck havoc on the general population. If a murder is not due to domestic violence, it usually goes unsolved. Likewise, even burglars that get caught usually get off with a slap on the wrist and are soon back to their work. Criminals act with a sense of impunity, which is logical under the circumstances.

I continue to live here in spite of this situation. Life goes on. But I strongly caution you: Don't underestimate the role that crime plays in affecting the quality of life in Puerto Rico."

NomadLawyer wrote:

"To make the story even worse, one of my friends who was burglarized after his dog was poisoned was a cop, everyone in the neighborhood knew he was a cop, and yet that didn't deter some crackheads with ties to the area breaking into his house four times in one year (and they knew he was home when they did it three of those times). "

I'm surprised the burglars got away with their life - many cops here are trigger happy.

I think Nomadlawyer, that it all depends on where you live. Yes, the murder rate is high but if you may believe the newspapers/tv news shows most of them are drugs related, with domestic violence as a runner-up.

I don't feel unsafe here and I've been here for ten years, lived in metro area and in "El Campo". Where I live now, up in the mountains at the East Coast, I can leave my car unlocked over night and it will still be there the next day. I can leave all kind of things on the porch where anybody can enter. Maybe I'm lucky but here in the "barrio" life is still great.

I agree that the police isn't too effective and that's obviously not helping in reducing the high crime rates.

Still I think that in many areas life is good and if you take the normal precautions to secure your property and if you don't go to 'no-go' areas, you're gonna be just fine here on this beautiful island.

About crime statistics - I just found this here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/u-s-terr … t-all.html
I didn't check the sources so don't blame me if the numbers aren't right but let's assume they are. That would confirm what Adolfo and I are writing. Yes, we have high numbers for murders and violent crimes but according to all sources most of these crimes are drug related. The stats for other crimes aren't bad at all.

I got some more crime statistics for the 50 states + DC and PR. This dataset is from the FBI website itself.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_05.html

According to that dataset Puerto Rico ranks as follows (Numbers are positions from 1st to 52nd.)

Murder and non negligent manslaughter: 2 (DC is the highest)
Violent crime: 37
Forcible rape: 52
Robbery: 9
Aggravated assault: 51
Property crime: 52
Burglary: 41
Larceny-theft: 52
Motor vehicle theft: 36

I guess that those bars in everybody's windows do work after all.

// I should check the statistics. I expected the numbers to be way higher. I'll keep you updated.

Your numbers confirm what I found, Adolfo - La Isla del Encanto ain't such a bad place to live after all.

adolfojp wrote:

I guess that those bars in everybody's windows do work after all.

No bars in the windows here - let's I hope I won't need them..

The bars on the windows also help keep out flying goats and other debris from smashing through your windows during a hurricane.

The numbers look very interesting.  I too thought that they would be much higher;  actual rather than anecdotal evidence tends to set the record straight.

GreggK wrote:

The bars on the windows also help keep out flying goats and other debris from smashing through your windows during a hurricane.

Don't be silly Gregg. Our goats don't fly away during hurricanes!

We keep them safe in our bathtubs. They're family. :-P

Update on the Concha hotel murder in Condado. Yesterday I met two people who work at the hotel. (Having an SO in the tourist food service industry gives you an insider's look.) They told me that the killer was a man from New Jersey who fell in love with a prostitute while he was drugged out of his mind. He killed the prostitute's pimp and when she freaked out he stabbed her too. The guy was stupid enough to clean himself with the hotel's towels which were later found in his room. The story is good enough to be an episode of a TV crime drama. And of all of the dangerous places that a tourist should avoid, a Puerto Rican jail is on top of the list.

A few weeks ago I had my first scary experience here. I live in a ground floor apt. and keep the gate to street locked, but leave my front door open for the draft. A seemingly homeless man tried to get in the gate and when I went to tell him to get out and close the door, he then went around to my front window which is 4' off the ground, stood on a planter and looked through curtains (this I found out later when I asked my landlords to check the security tape). I was about to call the police and will in the future. I guess my tolerance is a little higher having worked in social services in NYC, but I do wish I'd had my mace.
Yesterday in OSJ, I met a food kiosk owner who grew up here, but went to college in Boston and lived in the states for a few years after. Being in one of the main plazas, he sees a lot of the daily life. He was saying that the homeless, addicts and whatever have their own system of policing themselves which works fairly well. He noted that the most troublesome characters are the Puerto Ricans who've come from the States and have a sense of entitlement, one of whom stumbled into La Perla and disrespected someone's girlfriend and got beaten to a pulp. When I have gone into OSJ at night, the streets are populated. I'm a SWF, so I do keep my eyes open and stay very aware of which streets I walk. I'd like to walk the beach in my area in the evenings, but don't do that b/c of the walk home even though I'm familiar with the locals who are very pleasant, but there are little street bars along the way and people under the influence are much more likely to be a problem. Times like that that a car would be handy. Otherwise I don't find the crime infringing on my sense of wellbeing. However, the littering is disgusting and out of control and that is a part of my life every time I walk out the door.