Moroccan men and cafes???

Problem is probably because you are neither escorted by a husband nor covered discretely enough. In their eyes you are asking for it. Is it really a surprise or do you know so little about conservative Islamic cultures and norms?

97 % of them are like that I have spend 4 years in Morocco.

I read it's quite prevalent where you're from, so I thought you might know something about it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_ha … ted_States

Hello Shannan,

Umm, first of all with all respect to Moroccan people. I have many friends from Morocco especially in Moroccans in Saudi Arabia. If I'm not mistaken, you probably live in Casablanca and I would tell you that 98% of men are idiots and stupids. I can see their violence and attitude with the Moroccan girls.

However, the best thing you can do is to play stupid and pretend like you don't hear them. They don't dear to touch you nor harming you as they know you are a western. Anyway, please make sure you don't wear like you're in your home country. Try to avoid short clothes. You can wear anything but cover the body. Short clothes attract men everywhere in the world not only in Morocco. Also, try to avoid areas and places in the night or late at night. Be where most people are to be seen by everyone in the streets.

Finally, the above-mentioned apply most in Casablanca only. If you go to Marrakech or Akadir, you don't face these issues at all.

I am living near kenitra.. a smaller city .. I dress veryyyyyyyy modestly and appreciate the advice... when I left the United States and arrived in Morocco I learned fast a few lessons on not looking western 🤣🤣🤣🤣 . Have a great day

One should be aware that there is a double standard in many countries. It has more to do with male entitlement and misogyny than religion directly because it is not limited to Muslims; Hindu and Christian men in many places act the same. Foreign women are often seen as open game for harassment. Dressing conservatively is in order but does not guarantee that one still won’t have problems. It means that if a woman fails to dress modestly they are very likely to get harassed. Modest dress lowers but doesn’t eliminate the risk. In some places, traveling with a man is a protection because the woman is more or less seen as his property; she is already claimed. In India, many men still grab at foreign women - even traveling with a male. They know that many young foreigners are not married yet the woman is in a sexual relationship. They conclude that if she will sleep with that guy who isn’t her husband then why she shouldn’t sleep with everyone. Or at least this is the wishful thinking as Indian men have told me.  Short of having a visible wedding ring and a kid or two in tow, the locals won’t want to accept that a foreign woman is already spoken for.

this type of behavior usually occurs in smaller cities in morocco where some of the men are not "house trained" and grow up with a delusional sense of superiority (even though they are uneducated, jobless, and toothless). In their little deluded mentality, single foreign women who are unaccompanied by a man are "looking for it".

men sit in coffee shops because they are working and coffee shops double as their office. There are lawyers, accountants, car salesmen, intermediaries, etc...that sit in coffee shops all day "working". the rest are unemployed sitting there looking for an opportunity, perhaps a foreign woman lol.

There is a predatory, rapey method to how moroccan men approach women....the uncomfortable pervy stares, they pursue you to the bathroom and wait for you to get out, tail you for miles in their cars...i'd really hate to be a woman living in morocco.

I lived in Marrakech alone for 3 months this fall.  I can recall only one time when a man shouted something at me, and I walked past many cafes full of men.  I don't look their direction, I always wear a wedding band and generally wear sunglasses.  I also walk quickly and don't "stroll" down the sidewalk.  I agree with another reply here, the best response is no response.

Yes, I had noticed the same thing, but I have never had any problems.   I asked my husband and sister-in-law about it and received two different answers.  The answer to that question depends on who you ask.  When I first came to Morocco, I stayed in Kenitra, but now we live near Casablanca area.  I'm married to a Moroccan which is why living here, and I like it here.  I'm also American.

I would suggest you dress conservatively and modestly, and ignore the cat calls that you're not interested in, and remember there is Good and Bad everywhere you go now days, just stay safe and enjoy your time here in Beautiful Morocco.  Trust your feelings, if it feels unsafe believe it, and get too safely.  Life is too short to be stupid!

The problem is ... well those are trashy men.
I have a simple rule to share with females travelling in Muslim countries.
If a man is forward with you ... ex approaches you to talk to you without having reason ex asking for directions and there are no men around or warning  you of something like "Excuse me you dropped you scarf".

If you are dealing with a man especially in these countries that is not literal garbage ex someone not even worth spitting on they would NEVER dare speak like that to a woman in public let alone talk to you without reason.

If any man from any of these countries is offended by what I have bluntly said I strongly suggest you take a look in the mirror as you are being called out very directly on being a low life.  This behaviour is trashy anywhere and in countries that boast about people being more religious or socially modest this is even more of an indication that the man/ men doing this is garbage/ trashed in the worst way.

It is not a compliment but a significant insult to you, but what they don't realize is a woman with sense really understand that a man that does this is truly exceptional garbage and never worth talking to.  If you want to teach them a lesson film them doing this with without them knowing and post it on youtube anonymously and let their own families and communities shame them.

Also sadly men like this try to degrade women to make themselves feel better about themselves.  What they don't realize is that in the grander scheme of things it just highlights how there are absolute losers and that we should feel sorry for the poor women that ended up married to such a piece of garbage.

I am telling you youtube ... best tool for social justice ; )!

This entire attitude towards this annoys me.
I think especially as a adult female that does not put up with an BS that it is my responsibility to ensure the men I encounter who do this stuff anywhere get call out for it.  If it is not spotted is escalates to women getting physically sexually assaulted by group of men like in Egypt or that video of the girl getting sexually assaulted on a bus in Casablanca.

The fact that anyone feels flattered about this being done to them really makes me wonder about their self esteem and sanity.

I have had to deal with this situation since being a girl ex 12 years old.  This behaviour is NEVER okay.  It is not okay that anyone makes me as a woman going about my business morning, afternoon or night feel uncomfortable because they are trashy and have such a low self worth they need to make me feel uncomfortable or threatened to feel better about themselves.

As a child, teenager and woman in my early 20s I let the "fear" of being harassed my trashy worthless men restrict my freedom, but as an adult female oh no.  Not going to content with it.  Nor should any other woman anywhere.

I seriously encourage any woman having to deal with this ANYWHERE to film the men doing this even if you have to get someone else to film as you walk by.  Have you face blocked out on the video and leak it online from an anonymous account.  It will eventually go viral and the men will be publically shamed.  It will start a movement and not only help you but help women all over the world.

Don't be a victim be a survivor.  When you let anyone harass, bully or intimidate you .... you are part of the problem.

I am very thankful that due to social shaming this stuff does not happen as much in my city anymore.  This gives me the freedom to go about the city day or night without any significant feeling of discomfort.  I go out to music concerts as a woman by myself and come back at 1 am on public transit ex buses and subways by myself now with no issue.  Should anyone start to bug me there are cameras, I have a smart phone and am not shy to fight back against anyone who tries to give me problems with words or even physical force .... so unless someone is willing to risk getting stabbed with  a super sharp very pretty Swarovski encrusted pen, blinded by a shot of hair spray in their eyes or worse as frankly I have a million an one items in my hand bang at any given time .... don't disrupt me.

Maybe Casablanca is in need of groups of women walking the streets together day and night and beating up men who try to harass women.

I am always greatly disappointed to hear women foolishly put up with being treated as second class citizens anywhere.  Nothing changes and unless we all speak up and out.

There are comparably as many women as men in the world... things are not that off balanced so there is no "real" need for any women to put up with being mistreated.

It is what i call hypocritical society but to be more specific the  The religious community is necessarily a hypocritical society

I don't 100% agree with the idea that it is the religious aspect of society that creates the problem.
For example I am married to someone who has always described himself as religious person.  He prays 5 times a day, fast for Ramadan and has never sat in cafes harassing women.

I am not religious, but I still think when religious values are really what is driving someone's behaviour that they "DO NOT" act like this.

These are just trashy men.  Trashy men can come from all parts of the world and were born in to all sorts of faiths.  This problem can and does happen anywhere unless women and hopefully other men take action to stop it.  If there are no consequences for bad behaviour then people are not forced to stop.

I don't think it is fair for anyone to assume that all men anywhere act like this.  But typically speaking people that have nothing to do appear to have more opportunity to be annoying and disruptive.  What man under the age of 65 should have time to sit on his butt all day drinking coffee in a café bugging women walking by, but a loser ( ex not in school, no job and making no effort to be a productive member of society)?  Who wants a complement from a loser but someone with no self esteem.

Well people who pray and fast .... u find them the most hypocrite people. When ur relgion order you not to speak with stranger women or even not gazing on them then u do the vice versa no word to describe that except “ hypocrisy “ 

At the end of the day they only blame women cuz they believe that woman should not go outside of her home and even is she did she should wear niqab
And about western from what they see in movies they thought all them are whores and easy pery to have sex with

I understand what you mean regarding the hypocrisy that can exists.  I have encounter it and also seen it with regards to men getting furious about if women in their family are insulted but they openly insult and harass other women.  As a man you have likely observed this me as frankly now I have my head phones on listening to music most of the time when walking around outside.  It is a city strategy to signal you don't want to be bothered .... when people still try to talk to you despite having head phones on it suggests it is important or they are crazy.  It makes a potential cat caller look stupid as they are not getting a reaction as they are talking to themselves .... which only crazy people do.

A you said about religious people and hypocrisy is why I never took the faith I was raised in to seriously.

Western countries have always and still maintain very sexist and patriarchal views towards, but rather then dealing with their own issues they would rather play the but "those people in developing countries have it worse card".  After all look what kind of garbage the US elected.  In countries like Canada and the USA urban areas where people are less religious and where there are more women that are highly educated and hold the better jobs men are less likely to openly harass women or it can cost them their jobs or result in criminal charges.  In some parts of the country it feels like you can get away with almost anything even killing someone as there is no one there to observe and monitor what is happening.

I agree. Arab people in gernal its honor is in the private part of her sister or mother thats why they get furious . as long as u dont belong to his family he has right to do anything with other woman, latley women in morocco portest for stopping harrasment that they get from men and the parliament started taking effect to imposes tougher penalties on various types of sexual violence and harassment against women; including rape, sexual harassment and domestic abuse.

urbanshopping101 wrote:

I don't 100% agree with the idea that it is the religious aspect of society that creates the problem.
For example I am married to someone who has always described himself as religious person.  He prays 5 times a day, fast for Ramadan and has never sat in cafes harassing women.

I am not religious, but I still think when religious values are really what is driving someone's behaviour that they "DO NOT" act like this.

These are just trashy men.  Trashy men can come from all parts of the world and were born in to all sorts of faiths.  This problem can and does happen anywhere unless women and hopefully other men take action to stop it.  If there are no consequences for bad behaviour then people are not forced to stop.

I don't think it is fair for anyone to assume that all men anywhere act like this.  But typically speaking people that have nothing to do appear to have more opportunity to be annoying and disruptive.  What man under the age of 65 should have time to sit on his butt all day drinking coffee in a café bugging women walking by, but a loser ( ex not in school, no job and making no effort to be a productive member of society)?  Who wants a complement from a loser but someone with no self esteem.

f

Good point - it’s often the losers that have nothing to do, just a lot of time to waste. It’s probably no coincidence that this problem is more apparent in Muslim countries with poor economies. No job, no marrieage, no children = nothing much to do. But no excuse. Islam makes it clear that you can’t have a scecond glance at a woman who isn’t your wife/sister/mother etc and any decent Muslim man will try to follow this. I would say a man who doesn’t try to control his gaze has a big diffcency in the practice of Islam. One that goes around chatting up strangers in the street is just a dog. What a shame for the parents having a son like that

It’s really sad the state of society

It's part of their DNA. It's normal for them to harras women. Based on their small brain the real man must harras a women. Most of people sitted at coffees are uneducated and ignorant. They have grow up with their mother's propaganda that the male is God gifted and very superior to the female. What do you expect from such stupid and ignorant society and culture. Morocco is a very patriarchal country with extremely hypocrite society. You see them praying for the sake of being watched doing so by their parents or neighbours.. They are not religious but hypocrites.. Many Moroccos stop praying the moment they go in Europe or USA becouse none to watch them.. When they pray they pray like robots.. They don't apply Islam in their life even they read Quran every month or pray daily. That's why I call them very hypocrite society.. I have lost faith in these race. I don't trust none of them and I know I am wrong becouse I am generalising but I can't help it becouse of I have come across of Only liers and corrupted people while I lived here for many years. Moroccan men is like a women. Only talking and lying and never keep his word. The old generation is bit better then the new one. The new one is spoilt and they like to live by their parents and sister's sweat.. A European women must be very careful from anyone. Don't trust them and if you happened to get married with them be very careful from his extended family..

BlueskyOrient,

I don't really agree with that train of thought as I interpreted it.
Moroccan men are not significant different from men anywhere.
You have looser acting like this in many places.
Perfect example look at how the elected current President of the USA's well documented behaviour.
I would say that I live in a very multicultural city and am fairly well travelled and the possibility of this type of hypocritical and sexist behaviour exists everywhere including Western countries that present themselves as holier then now.

Open public aggressive sexually harassment of women in very common in Europe. I have experienced it first hand.  People always want to point the finger at other people from different countries when the nonsense with sexism, sexual harassment and hypocritical religious people happens everywhere.

Also when someone leaves a religious community and then happily does everything their religion does not support, that is reflecting in their level of faith and character.  Someone with strong character and true believe in their faith does not do this.

Anyone who things these flaws or issues are unique to Morocco or Muslims really is ignorant as it is just not true.

When travelling or out and out minding our own business we tend to encounter looser like this more often because they are literally sitting around and not being productive members of society.  Better quality men/ people usually have stuff to do ex work, school, taking care of kids or family and not have time to throw away sitting around all day bugging people.

Honestly being married to someone from a different religious and Nationality has given me the ability to be more objective and critical about the values, culture and environment I have lived in.  All Moroccan men are not low life's but as in most situations the better quality people are not using lingering around trying to get in your face.

I agree with blueskyorient...

I hate to be harsh .... but I just realized that BlueskyOrient and Lyn1964 are originally from the UK or lived in the UK. 
I find it interesting that your comments come off as broadly racist with a superiority tone.  I think is a really careless UK cultural tendency.  The tendancy to call other people from other cultures "uncilivized".  I have lived in Eglamd and know a lot of people from throughout the UK .... take a look on the mirror as the minority of the people I have encounter seem "proper".  Last time I checked gross public drunkenness and exceptional crude speech especially in the case of Scotland was a commonly observed reality .... could we use the small brain, low education or in their DNA racist generalizations to explain this?

I think that your comments are exceptional unfair when you generalize the entire population.  I am married to a Moroccan man   and k is many other Moroccan man that have left Morocco and live in Canada that still pray 5 times a day, fast, are educated and not sitting around anywhere sexually harassing people here or in Morocco.  So your generalizations across the entire population don't really make sense.

I can't let that unfair generalization slide as I don't want the men I know to be unfairly judge for the actions of certain men in the community unfairly.

Urban shopping well said is obvious they are UK born as am I but their hatred bigotted views is disturbing..

Clear they experienced and have been scammed or duped for them to paint the whole of Morroco in this negative light? Not very clever of you smart Brits??

Didn't find what you wanted in blighty ?? Lol sad individuals out to pour misery on some genuine people asking for help or advice. Met with rants and racist disgraceful views that help no one.

The title of this chat is like saying

English men and pubs! That's is worse than any cafe I know

🤣🤣🤣🤣. Good luck to you in Morocco and sorry for coming across too much direct and honest. I wish you all the best with your in laws and hopefully you will not be back one day and vomiting it all. Moroccans are '' amazing '' people.

Being dead honest many times is wrong and can get misunderstood as racism or ignorance.. All I said was my experience..I mentioned I was wrong to generalised but I just could not help it becouse I did never met a straight forward soul in my 2 years living within those people. Maybe I was extremely unlucky or maybe I was too much honest to talk about my experience...

That's my last comment in this thread.

Oh so all's ok while you all live in your happy lovely dovey bubble....hmmm
Maybe if you went through the *** I went through you would not have all the sugar and spice to say....all Moroccan people are not bad of course not...but many and I mean MANY are duping innocent decent people....that is WRONG ! Many Moroccan people are very very hypocritical...many tell lies...common occurrence...to me this not ok...so you enjoy your happy life in your bubble....hope it stays that way for you...if it does...your the minority...but don't condemn people like me that have been to hell and back simply because I fell in love..SAME AS YOU ...I did nothing wrong...I fell in love...after being relentlessly pursued...I did all for us both...he did nothing...apart lie and cheat and wait for it all to be handed to him on a silver platter..while he sat on his lazy ass being pampered by mum and sisters every day...so...condemn me all you want I don't give a toss...cos if just one woman reads my posts and it saves her from a Moroccan parasite...then I have done what I came to do...go and drink your mint tea...keep your Moroccan man happy...cos that's whats more important yea ?...

Oh by the way I would like to add...every single Moroccan man that hounded me in street and before you say my fault ....I did dress appropriately and modestly ..and asked me for my fone number ...ALL HAD WEDDING RINGS ON.... hope your man is behaving himself while you spend half your day in the kitchen waiting for him to come home to you...they are liars and cheats...

I don’t wear a hijab but I cover from head to toe
With loose garments

Both you ladies had significantly bad experiences.  But there are parasites all over the world including in your own countries.  You just happened to get conned by someone from Morocco.  I can appreciate you wanting to warm other people, but you also need to remember that the types of being that are actively looking for opportunities to meet foreign people are usually the shady ones.  You likely did not get to encounter Moroccans in a better social class.  I know a lot of Moroccan people that are professionals ex doctors, engineers ... well educated people that come from good families that don't need fish around looking for someone to con.  If they wanted to leave the country to find work they would just apply for visas as they would meet the criteria.

I have know lots of people that accidently end up with dead beat loser from their own countries too.  I would not date or marry a man with $, education or good prospects in my own country and I was sure not planning to import one from Morocco lol.  Sorry, but my situation is significantly different.  I am also not saying Moroccan people are better.  At the end of the day I think there is the same amount of good and crappy people all over the world.

LOL....

I would never blame a woman's choice of clothes for a man's trashy behaviour.

Where in Morocco were you staying/ what city?

I don't cover my hair or wear Moroccan clothes when in Morocco.
I am also pretty aggressive ex I am not shy to get in someone else face.  I am use to starting down people.  It is kind of an art.  It is almost like how animals puff up and look vicious if someone threatens them lol.  I grew up and have lived in some not so great areas as a teenager to had to learn how navigate around low life's.  Best advice ever given about handling this situation is act like you are crazy.... it actually works.... you might even get the harasser to run away.

Also this is the problem... with a lot of women.  Who the hack said I was cooking and cleaning for anyone as a "thing".  You allow the situation to fall in that then you are part of the problem.

My husband has learned that is he wants to survive he needs to cook.  My priorities are not being an unpaid domestic servant.  I have a job and stuff to do.  My husband cooks too or he would have starved to death already.  When you marry a man from a tradition family like a puppy you need to train him.  My sister-in-laws are all housewives.  Hence why I don't like visiting his family when I go there.  I work for a living.  Have my own money.  When I go on vacation I need to be out and about doing something ... not parked up in other people's homes and dealing with their day to day stuff.  So when I go to Morocco this year I am not even heading the direction, my husband and daughter will visit his family once I live.  We are renting a care and doing a road trip and we are staying in hotels.  When I am on vacation I am on my own time and I am not nice enough/ stupid enough for other people to mess up my plans.  My husband knows if I get annoyed of if his family or anyone starts to mess up my plans I will grab my stuff I will get my stuff, take my daughter and buy a ticket to go somewhere else to have fun in true Diva style.  You can't let me or anyone else "rule" you.

Perfect example is washing clothes.  My husband call pull apart a car and put it back together, but tried to pretend he could not figure out how to use the dishwasher and washing machine for clothes.  So I stopped washing his clothes.  He questioned why I was being so mean and only washing my clothes and our daughters clothes.  I provided an in-service on how use these things.  We re-negotiate some household responsibilities and that was that.  I don't live to maintain a house.  My house is where I store my stuff when I not home.  That traditional role play nonsense is not something I am willing to confirm too.  Like is too short.  If you are a sucker ... you will get played.  You can't be too nice when dealing with people or they will take advantage... it is human nature.

Well done you I agree and like all you say here..unfortunately I don't think many Moroccan men would be happy to be forced into helping with chores as you know their very pampered at home think their kings and all that.. his family actually live in a very good area in a good large house in casa ...not short of a Bob or two...it's just he did not prepare himself or save any money before marriage thus could not afford a Moroccan bride ..didn't save for to prepare a home or for a dowry ..so he turned to me...I did most here but he was refused visa so tables turned I was willing to go there but he stalled..couldn't provide a home ..squandered all his money instead of saving for his future so that left us in a predicament ...as I was not willing to live in parents home...his family are nice people from good home and area ...he is not a bad person just did not prepare himself for marriage..then decided to cheat ...

Is that not ironic.  A man is basic a dead beat .... but decides that he should cheat?  He can't even handle being in a relationship with 1 woman but thinks he should test drive another one.   Ironic.  That happens a lot in many places.  When people get thing easy that is what can happen. 

Sometimes you have to play hard ball.  My husband use to have temper tantrums when he did not get his way.... but just like a toddler you can't give in.  I would not waste time with some who cheats.  Life is too short and there are way too many people out there to settle for someone like that.  Some people are looking for a parent not a partner.

My husband dud exactly have his finance in order when getting married either but his father paid for everything.  His father even bought gold jewlery as a gift for me as a wedding gift.  I grew up around men who came from similar types of homes were their mothers would still take care of them like they were babies.  You can blame mothers for raising these useless losers.  My advice for any single woman is that if the man does not have a job, can't cook, clean or take care of kids ... he will just be a burden ... don't waste your efforts.

I am moroccan all what i can say is  the majority of moroccan are hypocrites but not all of them
But in my opinion those people who are living in south morocco are still good i mean by south ourzazate zagoura tata  those people are still honest
But as far as u go to north and big cities the hypocrisy start .

But again people are different

Sorry to disappoint but that applies to most of the world..... not just Morocco.

Great answer

I wore a Hijab and long dress when I went to the market, took my small grandsons with me, and kept my head down and didnt talk or look at the men in the coffee shops, only the butcher when I bought lamb leg. Never had a problem because it was a small village and everyone knew my grandsons and his father because they all attended the same Mousk, so in a way I was protected by association.

I just came back from Morocco and have been there a bunch of times, but the last time was 10 years old.  I went to a lot of cities and found that in general men were more respectful/ normal.  I went to markets alone, went to eat a few times alone and walked around alone or with another female younger then me.  The cat calling nonsense from what I saw was less.  I think when reading this people could say maybe that is because you are 10 years older men might find you less attractive.  In my case I look young then my age and actually a bit better then 10 years ago.  I had my hair out and was wearing western clothes like pants a longer tops that were long enough to cover my behind, but were trendy and modern.

I really wonder if in many cases it also relates to how confident you are.  I think men are less likely going to bug someone that looks like they are mean.  If you are walking around smiling, laughing, look like someone that will start blushing and that they stand a chance of scaring they are going to try and push their limits.

If you look like someone that will throw something at them, yell at them, make a scene or call the police ( like me), they will be more careful around you.

I found the vibe of cities were different.  I did have two teenagers try to follow the me and the female I was with trying to figure out where we were from.  But then they backed off when the other female who spoke Arabic said she was from Morocco and yell at them to get lost.  It was funny because the other men that were around started laughing at them and they got embarrassed.  This was in Essaouira.  I think these teenagers were just bored and don't think they would have hurt us. 

I felt less comfortable in smaller places were people were more conservative only because I find when you have a village, town or city where most people are conservative when someone goes out of their way to do something they know it not okay they are "really" a bad person.  There is flirting and there is an a psycho that will actually try to physically or sexually assault you.  Sometimes you are just unlucky to run in to a crazy people. 

In Safi I did have some teenager ( who looked like a homeless person) say I looked like a whore in Arabic.  I was wearing long jeans, long top, flat sandal and a scarf covering my shoulders and chest.  I took humor to this.  The prostitutes must be very conservatively dressed in Safi.  If he thought I was too exposed he would have a had a heart attack in Agadir, Marrakesh and Casablanca.  I was REALLY surprised at the way some girls and women were dressed.  I saw some people wearing tank tops and micro shorts.  In public places I did not see anyone bugging them.  Even in Canada if you are walking around dressed like that you are going to be getting looks.  It might be legally okay to go topless or wear very little clothes, but people will judge you and socially stigmatize you based on what you are wearing in public.

Some teenage girl I met in Casablanca said something about the laws changing there so men/ people can be charged with verbal assault.

I wonder also if some of this has to do with social class.  The girls and women I met in Morocco from wealthy families looked like they did not put up with any nonsense.  I wonder if more men just realize that if they mess with someone that is from a higher economic or social class that they will have the resources to go after them.

My last trip really makes me understand that Morocco is a complicated place.  You can not just label the country as the same everywhere.

The Moroccan man gets a bad name. I think some comparative perspective needs adding. In America rape is epidemic. One in five women are raped. American women are taught from a very young age that their worth is in their beauty/attractiveness to men. Canada is pretty much the same. University life is based around getting drunk and having sex. Some willing others forced. UK society is different but not that much. Getting girls drunk to have sex with is the way of life for young people and the vast majority of women have had sex with lots of men by the time they settle down and have children, even though a large majority don’t settle down with the man or men that got them pregnant.

Now the Moroccan man, like any normal man has an interest in women. Maybe some younger ones try to chat up women, wolf whistle or over step what’s socially acceptable (and lets be honest in Morocco man making any un-necessary contact is socially unacceptable) but these men mainly don’t have sex until they get married, don’t have affairs and do stick around to provide for their women and children. I’m sure lots of non-Moroccan women have gone to Morocco and mixed with the lowest of Moroccan men in the places you are going to meet them. Or non-Moroccan women have got unwanted attention because they look different or from a rich country. But compared to the American man, where you have got a 20% chance of being raped or maybe a 95% chance of sex and bye, sex and bye, sex and bye I just think this whole topic is outrageous. Like for like and on average the Moroccan man is nothing of a threat to any woman in comparison to an American/Canadian/British man. It’s strange how you women focus on safety in Morocco for women when most of you live in countries where women are raped and abused maybe a 100 times more than in Morocco. Maybe it’s media conditioning.

Lots of talk about what clothing women are wearing in Morocco and if it’s related to being harassed. Well in your home countries women are conditioned to compete in being dressed to please men/be sexual attractive. Morocco is not like that, the majority of women are conditioned to do the opposite - and I know many are now following the western way

I don't fully agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I think a huge difference between rape and sexual harassment in Morocco compared to place like Canada, the USA and the UK is that in Morocco girls and women are far less likely to report that they have been raped as it results in significant social stigma.  Regardless it is very traumatic and difficult for someone to report that they were raped anywhere.

Do you think all those street children in Morocco fell from the sky?

I also disagree with the idea that Moroccan men are more likely then men in Canada, the USA and UK to take care of children they have fathered.

Again do you think all those street children in Morocco fell from the sky?

Also while in Morocco I did meet many women on the streets begging or in pretty bag economic situations that had been abandoned by their husbands.

I find that in Moroccan culture when marriages fail the stigma placed higher on the woman then the man.

Also sorry to shock you but women ALL over the world are conditioned to think their value relates to their beauty.  These messages are global.  What physical beauty means can be different in different parts of the world.... but the message is there.  You are mixing idea regarding popular culture and religious values.  Far too many people neglect to remember that life as shown on TV is not real life for most people.  The USA and Canada are not "really secular" countries.  The laws are to various extents influenced by religiously beliefs and values.  There are lots of very conservative and religious people of various faiths in these countries.  What is legally tolerated and socially acceptable is not the same thing.  You are also comparing "lower socioeconomic classes" with middle and higher socioeconomic classes.  In most countries people from these different economic groups co-exist with each other but don't go out of their way to inter-mix.  I see the same thing in Morocco.  Moroccans are not uniformly socially conservative or religious.

It was confusing how to interact with men.  I never reach out to shake someone's hand and tend to wait to see how they choose to greet me as I am use to being around people of many different faiths and cultures so I am flexible with my expectations.  Some men in Morocco do reach out to shake your hand and others don't.  I took no offensive in either situation but did observe different actions.  It is not a big deal to me regardless.

I about what stereotypes you are creating about women from Canada, USA and the UK by your comments unfairly suggesting that we are loose, easy or careless with our bodies.  This may be the case for women around where you are from, but this is not a clear spectrum anywhere.

Also RAPE and choosing to have sex with someone are very different.  Views on sexuality are not universal across the world or even from area to area within the same country.  Based on what I was observing in smaller villages and towns in Morocco to bigger cities that values and social norms are not uniform either.  Again I observed women wearing things in big cities in Morocco I would not wear in my own country.  So there is a spectrum.

Regarding having children outside of being married I am not personally in support of this idea, but in reality what happens to women who do happen to have children outside of marriage is tragic in Morocco.  Again all those street children did not fall from the sky.  In my country I have NEVER seen street children.  So this was shocking for me.  I have seen this in some other countries in the world too.  While travelling in Morocco I did have opportunities to interact with many people that were living very below the poverty line and were literally malnourished.  In Canada most of our homeless population are people that are significant mentally ill or drug addicts that are refusing to comply rules required to get shelter or food access.  In Morocco I saw an entirely different type of poverty.  They did not present as mentally ill or drug addicts … just in bad economic circumstances.  A child walking up to be asking me for food because they are hungry is tragic and should not be ignored.  Poverty does exist everywhere.  The main difference for me is that I have no issue giving food or money to someone who needs to eat, but I have an issue giving money to someone who is drug addict who is actively choosing not to get the available help.  Some of my experiences and observations did leave me with a reminder that life is truly not fair.

These are big issues anywhere and not a quick fix.  Regardless in general I think Morocco is changing and a lot of good things are happening in regards to women's and children's rights and development.  I can see the changes, but the changes are most obvious in bigger cities.  I was roaming around places that ranged from small villages to big cities and I warn anyone woman travelling outside of bigger cities in Morocco to understand that once you leave the bigger cities you better be 100% more cautious of how you are dressed because you will drastically stand out.

Most of the street children as you describe them do have parents, who are most likely married. Once in Casablanca I was surprised to see so many children playing outside without adults around, I mean I’m from the uk that is full of pedophiles and me and my wife wouldn’t dream of letting our children out of sight. But on looking into these children Casablanca , the parents collectively look after the children. Not every parent needs to be on guard and the older children help to. Also the danger isn’t like it is in western countries. Children have more freedom in Morocco, like they did in the UK 50 years ago.

Also 50 years ago women in the west wouldn’t want to have sex before marriage, it was completely socially frowned upon. They would be classed as prostitutes. Moroccan society is now like this. Moroccan fathers and husbands also look after their daughters / wives very different to the way Western men do. What I mean is they don’t let them get in to dangerous situations like leaving them to travel alone, be alone with stranger men or be out when it’s dark. This is based n Islam and culture , a culture of safe guarding. Obviously western women travelling alone / with other women are far away from these norms of safe guarding. Yes I know western women want their independence and freedoms but they do put their selves at risk.

So from this,,, Moroccan men that do harass western women are probably thinking these women actually want the attention because they can see they are far from norms such as not travelling un-accompanied, dressing in a way that attracts men (compared to Islamic dress that covers up), being out a night - I mean the whole scenario could easily give the impression of women looking for men to have fun with. It’s also well know that women from rich countries do go to Morocco to take advantage/ have fun with men that wouldn’t in a level playing field look at them trice. So really i think it’s a lack of understanding from the non-Moroccan women in Morocco that brings a lot of the unwanted attention. My wife who is Moroccan didn’t want to go to a cafe with me because she understood it as a mans place and mainly the only women that would go there would be prostitutes. She obviously didn’t want people thinking of her as a bad woman.

As regards to women not reporting rape, I’m sure in all society’s it’s the same with very few women reporting. But as mentioned Moroccan women are normally kept out of danger where as western women are so often putting themselves at risk, often so drunk they don’t even know what they are doing. I’m not in anyway saying being drunk makes these women accountable for others evil actions but for sure they are not protected and are at risk.

I agree with parts of what you are saying, but again not exactly all of it.

1.  Regarding the need for men to keep women safe.  This creates women that are weak.  If you want to survive and prosper you need to be strong regardless of if you are a man or women.  This is a foolish act of men, parents and society with good intentions.  Girls that are going to become leaders need to have the opportunity to be out in the world and not hidden in the background.  I was raised in a family environment where I was taught to be scare of men, strangers, to be out at night or to do anything on my own.  It is a crippling mindset.  Getting out in the world and travelling and doing things independently has shown me that this mental jail I was placed is was not needed.  Girls and women need to be taught to stand their ground and enforce their rights.... not to be hiding behind other people.  As a girl and woman YOU can call the shot, make the rules and in full truth any man should really understand he has just as much reason to be fearful of men than I do of him.  In most cases things are mind over matter.  So in basic terms if someone thinks he can take advantage for me because I am a woman, I need to make sure he understands I can hit him back strategically physically, mentally with legal action and I am not someone to be messed with.  If you act like a weak person there will always be someone around the corner looking to take advantage of you.  This is the difference between creating a woman that can become a leader and a women who will be a burden in my opinion or a woman who can save lives instead of one always sitting around waiting to be saved.  Your comments accidently patronize and limit what woman are capable of.  When men actually think this way to me this could be a reflection of the type of woman they are surrounded by.  If you are surrounded by woman that run companies, lead teams saving lives, creating public policy and holding leadership roles in military, government and industries you better understand that sex does not determine capability.

2.  Most people that are raped are actually rape by someone they are related to or know very well.  The minority are raped by strangers.  The minority of people that are raped are "drunk" or intoxicated.  Suggesting otherwise is not accurate.  When someone that is suppose to trusted rapes you how do you trust anyone?  Sadly bad people tend to place themselves in positions of power and target the most vulnerable and people least likely to be able to fight back.  Family members, religious and political leaders, teachers, doctors and neighbours are the most likely people to rape someone and intimidate someone in to thinking it was their fault they were rapes and no one will believe them if they tell anyone.  When people fail to accept that anyone could be a potential rapist then they truly place their children and adult women they treat like children by over controlling at risk to be victims.

3.   Morocco is changing.  Big city Morocco is not the same as little village Morocco.  I met some very interesting teenage girls when in Morocco from more affluent families and these girls are not letting any men in Morocco young or old boss them around.  They wear what they want and sit where they want.  The café thing in Morocco is changing a bit I noticed more families in cafes.  I think the issue is more related to money.  As women and family have more money they are more likely to go out for coffee and desserts.  In nicer areas there were less "men only type cafes".  From my observations most of the cafes that are mainly for men are pretty uncomfortable and unwelcoming to anyone that really wants to relax and savour their coffee and dessert.  They also tend to have a lot of men who are really the types you really don't want to talk to anyways sitting around for long periods of time drinking a coffee and talking nonsense.  They attract a certain crowd.  These kids want to hang out at fun trendy places not run down depressing places.  When I was at Morocco Mall I was laughing because the teenagers there seemed very similar to North American teenagers.  They want to roam around the mall all day meeting with friends, eating junk food and buying clothes with the $20-30 dollars they got from their parents.  I met some teenager girl that actually stated that if anyone bugs me I will contact the police and charge them with verbal assault.  I was impressed.  It was actually funny.  They were not letting anyone push them around.

4.  Regarding the dressing to attract attention and women from other places going there to meet men.  I agree with this to some extent.  I think some women go their and really don't know any better because they made not made any effort to research where they are visiting.  I did seem some tourist that were just clueless, yet I did not see anyone bugging them and could easily see people bugging them where I am from if they were dressed like that.

5. Regarding the street children, sadly I was seeing kids out roaming the streets at 11 pm to 1 am.  Also when talking with some of these kids it became clear they had no parents and where living on the streets with other little kids.  So they were actually a high risk.  I was truly scared for them.  There was one little boy I saw roaming around at around 1 am who was sniffing this cloth that someone explained had gas or something one it and he was getting high/ intoxicated by sniffing it.  One little girl approached our table while we were eating and asked if she could have some food because she was hungry.  Of course we gave her food and actually packed up food that was left over and drinks and gave it to her.  This kind of became a habit.  As I found I was regularly running in to people asking for food.  If we bought stuff to eat and were no going to finish it we asked to take it to go and gave it to the next person on the street begging we encountered.  On another note I found people in Morocco really wasted food when eating out.  Where I am from most places offer to pack up the food so you can take it home.  Most people begging where I am from want money because they are going to try and buy drugs or alcohol with it.  Very different.

My actual overall point is I see a lot of positive changes in Morocco.  Morocco has a lot of potential and hope!  They are doing a lot of good things to push their country forward.