RSSV and buying a home in Subic area

Welcome John,
             Sorry I can't help you with your problem as I am a Balikbayan married to a Filipina so I have never had to buy or rent real estate or use anything but a tourist visa as long as I only stay 364 days at a time.  The usual expat advice is to rent where you think you want to live for a year to find out if you really want to buy real estate there.  Selling real estate can be worse than trying to buy it.  Have you been to the Philippines before?  Any reason to concentrate on Subic?

Thanks for your reply. Mugtech, much appreciated.
I like the Subic freeport area as its not too far from Manila ,  just a mornings bus ride , its near the ocean and its QUIETER !!   It has an expat community too which can be very useful when first  settling in.
Also (I may be wrong here) but I was led to believe that due to the US Navy buildings of condos and houses, it had special provisos for foreigners buying a leasehold house there.  Possibly like yourself, from your Mugtech name, I am a retired grad Electronics/Communications /Radar engineer  who came through the ranks as a technician and still own a large lab /w.shop here.
I also own metal lathes and milling machines and would like to continue doing some research/hobby work in those areas..so need a house with a garage (which I could enclose) big enough to house the machinery , though much downsized from what I have now, but probably a 20 inch lathe like a Sieg SC4 and an SX3 mill would likely fit, also importing some of my electronics , particularly the certificated calibration instruments which may be impossible to replace.  I have came across a few RSSV advisory sites which suggest  that I can long term lease a home (Eg   http:/www.srrv.com.ph)
A long term house lease is really necessary for me due to all the heavy gear I would like to purchase locally. Rentals (which have been skyrocketing lately) are only from 6 to 12 months , only a couple to 24 months, and don't offer any stability like a long term house lease would. 
As for re selling a leased house I would probably will it  all to a decent and deserving  Filipino family as I am the only survivor of my family, so they would wind up owning it
This would give me a good feeling as doing something good for the country who would have RSSV adopted me.
Best Regards to you and yours
John

I understand your attraction to Subic, I don't like hanging out in Manila, prefer the province.   Still think it might be best to test an area before making any long-term commitments.  Have to check out services, neighborhood acceptability,  noise, barking dogs, burning trash etc.  If you are a Catholic or any other Christian you would want to find the congregation best for you.  Also a good way to meet the locals, as opposed to bars and clubs.  Degree in History and Accounting for me, also retired, currently reading the books my father bought and read when he came to the Philippines with US 25th division in January, 1945.  If you have an interest in history you might enjoy American Guerrilla in the Philippines, made into a movie in 1950.

Thanks again Mugtech for your interesting reply. which reflects you  as a well educated person.
I have spent some years working in Asia.... Malaysia, Hong Kong, Taiwan and lastly 3 years in Thailand so am very familiar with the scenario you have presented !
Much like Thailand !!
Spent my holiday breaks living with ordinary Thai families,learning how to read and write some Thai, so am used to sleeping on floor mats,  bathing out of  pottery. with a saucepan. squatting on Asian toilets, which are better for your physical health!   Actually prefer most  Asian food over Western, though I understand Filipino  food is more sweetly  flavoured.   Had a lovely Thai wife and a family with her till they were lost  in an accident, so came back home and been alone since.   Iv'e also studied comparative religions (B.A. Phil)  and am interested in learning Philippine history, particularly from both the Spanish and early American periods.  Have a particular interest  in the Huks.    I am sure you will get an interesting read from your fathers early books.
Being nice hearing from you, you are an interesting person!
My best regards
John

Good to know you are familiar with the ways of life in Southeast Asia.  Was sorry to read about the loss of your wife and family, very tragic.  Perhaps you are ready to find a spouse in the Philippines,  it has been known to happen. 
The Spanish history and especially the ways of the church are available in general history books of the Philippines.   There are some good books also on the American War starting in 1899 and the Americanization of the school system, the placing of the fortress on Corregidor with guns with plates that say things like "Bethlehem Steel, 1907."
There are some good threads on here about foreigners and having homes in the Philippines.   It might be a good source for you, some of the people on those threads are very knowledgeable about real estate law and how it is practiced.  Good Luck.

Mugtech, thanks for your many pointers and advice.
Been alone so long now I don't think any relationship would work out.
I would prefer to live alone and keep my mind occupied by study.  Oddly the only reply I've had here other than your own was from an attractive Pilipina woman offering to show me around Manila and to do work for me.  She probably thinks I already am in the Philippines .
No doubt a genuine offer and a good person but not in  Philippines yet  and even then not likely to take up on such.  Would prefer to make friends with a  fully integrated and decent younger Pilipina family and take an avuncular interest in their children  Not interested in bars and such as I don't drink alcohol by my own choice and not for religious reasons,  but no issues with  those  who  do and don't drink to excess.    (I am deeply suspicious of all religions, though I respect and admire such  religious individuals who are  genuinely good in themselves)
Finally, thanks once more, Mugtech, for your input and interest and may you continue to have a happy and successful life in the Philippines
E.O.T. (End of transmission)
With Best  Regards to You and Yours
John

i buy house in my wife name   last  year , when i  submit my documents to IRO interior revenue office. they told me that foreigner can buy property in his own name if land is less then 1000 sqm. the official told me now rule is changed.

Hi Mugtech and of course everyone else! As far as the ways of the church and this goes to the heart of the Philippines when the first Spaniard set foot here! It is called the Doctrine of Discovery! From the Pope! Research it and understand it! The SCOTUS upheld this decree in 2014! Ginsberg said they had no choice because of existing case law! The biggest genocide in the history of mankind is that of Native Americans! This doctrine is still the legal grounds to continue ruin of their culture which I grew up in!

Hi Iftikhar65
You said

>>buy house in my wife name   last  year , when i  submit my documents to IRO interior revenue office. they told me that foreigner can buy property in his own name if land is less then 1000 sqm. the official told me now rule is changed.>>

Sorry for the delay in replying,: "Foreigner can buy property in his own name if land is less than 1000sqm, but  rule is now changed"

It does seem that  govt. house ownership laws for foreigners seem to change on a monthly basis as I still keep getting totally conflicting reports on these , perhaps that's the reason??   Just read another   bald statement that RSSV holders can buy a house OR land provided its leasehold , and does not give a limit on where in the Philippines this applies.
But that seems to be the problem....very few properties  it seems are indeed leasehold , if any, the only known exception being the freeport Subic bay area where all such properties are seemingly already bought out and none left... only one seen lately was a Subic 2 bedroom house with 35 years left of lease and a P20,000000 price tag with only one exterior photo!!!    No thanks!  I can still buy a better house and land here in Australia for that and have money left over AND own it outright!
Govt sites are not  much help , as they state you can buy a condo on lease hold but don't mention houses or townhouses in a block of same.  I contacted DOT Property on new homes they had for sale in Subic who asked if I was a Filipino...when I answered no, but was willing to pay cash for the (larger) house under a lease agreement they didn't bother to reply to me...  so have cancelled that company from my buy list.  Perhaps those housing estates advertised are only for Filipinos on some sort of govt. low housing cost subsidy scheme??  But she didn't even bother to say
Anyway a friend of mine who had been talking to a builder relative of hers that had been able to inspect those house construction methods over there  (Camillo?) told her that they were made up of prefabricated single width concrete  slabs "single firewall" with a metal roof.  he said that the ones he saw already had signs of concrete rot  by using water with too high a salt content  in the mix and he predicted the houses would collapse in 10 years time due to the weakening of the load bearing walls due this, which rots out holes in the concrete leaving a white powdery residue.

I really like the Philippines, the Filipinos I have met here in Oz in he past seem a decent , likeable lot and I think the islands are very beautiful....using a leased house as a base I would have liked to travel around the islands now and again and would never been bored....would have liked  to learn Visayan as that seems more of a indigenous language than Tagalot and more typical of the basic roots of the original Philippines language(s) ...of which there seems to be quite a few.
But I am not going to live there if I cant first get definitive answers on the ACTUALITIES of buying a freehold house over there and after months of trying  to get to the truth of it  its time to give up.
There  are other countries (Eg: Ecuador) where you can buy house AND land AND own it outright without having to pay out hefty amounts (US$10,000/20,000 for RSSV) AND don't have to pay an annual high fee for keeping your visa alive.  You also get permanent residency rights MUCH cheaper than the Philippines charge (Lately that's been changed to after 2 years living in Ecuador. Before if you bought a home there it was automatically given you)
House/land  costs out of the major towns are about 1/3  of Philippine equivalents  and cost of living less than a third as well, if you eat the local food.    Plus Health insurance  is less and medical quality is higher than the Philippines, even better than Cebu or Manila   You also need a much lower mandatory monthly retirement pension than the Philippines so are cushioned  somewhat against monetary rate changes.
Such places have there down side too of course, but on aggregate seem much better in general than the Philippines to retire in.
Regretfully I shall have to give up on retirement in  the Philippines t  Life is too short to spend more months of fruitless enquiries     I think I have left it 10 years too late

B est Regards to you  iftikhar65
John

You are correct, a lot of economic refugees go to Ecuador because it is cheap if you live like the natives.  The currency is the US dollar, very strong internationally lately.  Ecuador is a one trick pony, if the oil situation does not improve it could face a lot of easing of government subsidies and economic instabilities.  Going to any Latin American country is a roll of the dice.  Time to start Spanish lessons.

Kudos to you, Mugtech.  You are the only one to reply in any length to my enquiry on the RSSV option to buy a home .   Although you could not help me there you at least explained why and gave good reason for that.   I had taken your good advice and searched this site for some meaningful info, but it does seem that this expat site caters mainly for those who are settled with Filipino wives who's purchased properties are in their name and my concerns  therefore,  do not apply to them. and thats fair enough.
And I continue to get totally conflicting views on the RSSV option to buy leasehold property. Here is another example :  Global Property Guide  May 1st 2109  Philippines:  RSSV:
"Holders of Special Resident Retiree's visa (SRRV), a non immigrant resident visa can get additional benefits aside from being allowed to buy a condo unit OR LEASE A PARCEL OF LAND OR A HOUSE AND LOT...................(my emphasis)   .......Other benefits and information about SRRV Visa is available on the Philippine Retirement Authority Website "
Of course the referred Philippines Govt. website says NOTHING about RSSV holders being able to buy a house and lot, leasehold or otherwise.
Yet I KNOW that an Australian has bought such a freehold stand alone house in Subic ,
but he stated you can ONLY buy them in the Subic Freeport area and Angeles.
His large home with gardens  costs him $220 USD per month (bank loan?) on a 50 year leasehold, but states these are limited in availability. (I think that's from Property.com)

Here's another statement downloaded from Jean Folger and with full acknowledgement to him.  "Buying a House in the Philippines: A How to Guide"   Jun 29, 2019"
Excerpts:  "in general foreigners are prohibited from owning land on the Philippines , but can legally own a residence.......to work around this you can buy a free standing house, but lease the property.........
Under the Investors Lease Act  of the Philippines a foreign national can enter into a lease agreement with a Filipino land owner with initial period of up to 50 years with a one time option to renew for 25 years....."  End of Excerpts. 
This implies you can lease from a Filipino landowner ANYWHERE in the Philippines.
Jean also described marrying a Filipino citizen or as a part owner in a corporate business as other ways.
Yet other sites (Filipino lawyers specialising in foreign purchases of houses and condos)   have stated:    "Foreigners cannot lease hold a stand alone property, that's  only for Filipino citizens"  contradicting the above
That's only a tiny few of the supposedly " correct" but opposing statements I have came across in many months of frustration attempting to get a true answer.   Bear in mind I wanted to permanently stay in this country and that I would be putting every cent of my savings into it.  Would anyone do that unless you first knew the absolutes involved?
Moving to another country, such as Ecuador, which I gave only as an example:
Well, with those countries the government gives clear and unambiguous information about buying a house and property.   Expats in that and other similar countries do not give opposing views at all, all are consistent.
There are problems with such countries, political instability , bad roads, poor infrastructure outside the main areas etc, but at least you know and absolutely know how you stand with a home before you retire there .
And anyhow much the same  problems can be said of the Philippines depending on where you live.  And the Philippines is also a US$ dominated country.  ALL the fees associated with RSSV and other forms of Visa costs are all given in US$, so there is no difference there!  And Political stability depends on Duterte being allowed to continue to primarily act on behalf of the Filipino people, eg: his attack on the private electricity suppliers and the corrupt contract which he inherited and etc etc.
The Philippine economy , despite its  resurgence, can be hamstrung by natural disasters, like the costs of rebuilding from recent flooding and here my heart goes out to those Filipinos who have weathered the destruction of their homes with equanimity and those foreigners married to Filipinos who have suffered as well,  most of them in slum areas.
Ecuador, by contrast, is largely higher above sea level, is not sharded by many intrusive river systems subject to sea surges, so apart from earthquakes, is a safer country in that regard.   I wonder how many houses still advertised for rent in Olongapo or Barreto, which were my initial target areas  are still intact?

As for marrying a Filipino, as most of you here seem to have, with good fortune,  married a decent one , that also comes with some serious risks    I do hope that none of these happen to you, but Philippines law can put you at risk of losing your home anyway.
Here are some scenes which I have discovered can happen.
1.    Your wife dies by accident or disease.
        Under the law you  do not have any rights to your home. Its left to the nearest relative
        You are at the mercy of her family as to whether you stay there or not.   Filipinos have large families.  Not all may be merciful to your plight.  Greed and threats may win out against any family who are on your side.

2.     Squatters rights: Under the law , when you return from holiday, squatters may have taken over your home.  By law they may be impossible to remove   Poor Filipinos who do this may be acting within Philippines law

3......You hire a live in housekeeper. Weeks later a knock on the door reveals an outraged husband who claims you have committed adultery with his wife!!   Its  a scam.  You can go to jail over this as you will find it difficult to prove your innocence. Adultery is a serious offence there. He will demand thousands of US$ to stop him reporting it,  If you don't pay and as you languish in jail waiting to be deported
you hear he has 'forgiven' his wife so she is not charged.  If you pay up he  will do the same.

Unfortunately Philippines law favours Filipinos over foreigners in most cases unless they are connected with a powerful family.  Thailand is much the same .

Finally, with all these less advertised laws against the foreign home buyer and the uncertainty of rights  of home ownership in the Philippines  what am I supposed to believe? 
And to you expats who have decent and good Filipino wives and their supportive  families  (and I know they exist),  count your blessings!   My sincere  and most friendly thoughts are with them.

Well, this has taken up your time!  Apologies for my outburst.

Frustrated

John

Hi Hperef
I have lived in Ecuador and now one year this time in Phil's! I much prefer Ecuador overall if ownership of property is a priority! Climate change is going to be serious problem for Philippines! My preferred place to live is actually Mexico! My next stop is Ensenada where I have already shipped in 4 53' containers to make my home in! I have done this before and it is by far the best and cheapest home option if you have the time!!

Welcome to the forum hexref, John, Steve this end; mugtech offers great advice and it appears you have done your research well, due diligence etc.  Though still perplexed and questioning Filipino law. Such a pity Australia never followed similar routes with land and company ownership as they do in a plethora of thinking countries.
Honestly John and only from personal experience, expat and government sites (woe they can be in my chosen country to live), Attorneys there in PH. with bountiful knowledge in this field are few and far between and most will take the eye out of a needle for a few pesos extra in their coffers.
Business and little else for them.

I am not a mouth piece and only offer my limited experience, mayhap you go through some of my offered posts as well as others within this and other sites. One gentleman here (nativecalif) offers great advice and insights, worth a visit also to his threads, though many well worth the research.

For me? The Filipino law is explicit, Only Filipino nationals can and will own land,,,,, unless you are lucky enough to find an old titled property granting ownership to foreign nationals,  (from memory through the second world war period or perhaps the late 30s) Difficult to find and if found for sale probably an American estate open for sale at yes a premium.
If I live there for 10 years and learn Tagalog as well as the local Dialect, Ilicano fluently, renounce my Aussie citizenship and become a Filipino national then I can buy out San Mig if I had the Pesos.
I'm going back there with my better half of 8 years to retire. My reasons? I have a partner who is filipino who spent over 5 years living and working in Oz; he tasted western culture and learnt big time that we are not all millionaires, lived in an extremely expensive country and shook his head over and again. I too have learnt, the love of my life and his great family and friends, support, ask for little or nothing, speak english (yes slack on my behalf for the little/less linguistic prowess of a wealthy foreigner that only speaks english, some French, some Tagalog, a little Ilocano and somewhat less Bikol.)

One needs a reason to retire to the Philippines and it certainly is not going to be the exchange rate nor the living conditions within the general populace. I have said this many times before that there are plenty of cheaper countries with better opportunities than the Philippines and as said if I were a single man looking to retire to Italy or France, well within my budget,,,,,,,, love conquers all as they say so Ph. is my/our retirement.

Onto owning property/land in PH. as a foreign national, ain't going to happen. Married to a Pinay the vacant land or house and lot is in your better half's name and cannot be leased from a single entity (husband to wife, or visa versa) for a single man to secure a viable lease one needs to look for tenable options and as you have found Subic and little else,,,,,, not sure about Poro Piont up in our neck of the woods but perhaps I cold research that and respond later.

Perhaps I am dim but you refer to the RSSV constantly and mention infrequently the SRRV, is there a difference? I researched this and everything pointed back to the SRRV. As an astute reader have you ever looked at the SRIV? Investment visa?
Back to our state of play, we are a gay couple which is not recognised in PH. and thus gives us the "purchase the property in my better half's name" and I lease it from him, all the bells and whistles that go with a long term lease, read previous posts.
For you John as a single man the world could/will be your oyster, choose well.
Purchase a title outright as an alien? Not going to happen or extremely rare. Leasing a lot or house and lot with a trusted Filipino friend? Difficult to secure but achievable with the right person/people and if not done properly could eventually lead to grief and then some. (Most times this happens for expats in PH.)

I see and hear your learning and wisdom based on research and commend your contributions here but seriously have to ask as a single man? Why the Philippines?
I do wish you luck and good fortune with well researched investigations and your observations as you do but one has to come back to Law in PH. and little else as it's all spelt out.
Sorry for another rant and as most times OMO.

Good luck John.

Cheers, Steve

Steve, I thank you for your input and kind comments.
As I understand it, investing in a corporation requires 60% control by Filipino directors  and although a home can be purchased (and fully paid for) by a foreigner under that scheme it is still under the control of the corporation.   If that fails you lose everything and even if the business succeeds  you have no controlling rights to your home  should the corporation wished to sell it to raise money, as they have the controlling vote.
Besides that I lost heavily on a venture in Malaysia and am very wary of doing business in Asian countries where I am only a small cog within  the local financial machinery . The only way to security is by being allied to a very large international or local company who have enough political sway to protect you, that is only if they consider you an indispensable part of the operation.   If not your money and property can be  up for grabs.
As for Filipino attorneys  and estate agents I take your point.    I have already observed the contradictory feedback from a few regarding home ownership for foreigners.  I have also observed pleadings from subscribers in  sites such as this asking for the names of RELIABLE and HONEST attorneys and real estate agents in the Philippines  so those  problems are real as you  so aptly describe.
As you have direct experience of the Australian situation you will know that this country is in an extreme downwards spiral which will result in an enormous economic crash.  The Oz $ had already lost heavily against the Peso in the last few months, from 72 to varying around a mean of 66 and a further fall is predicted soon taking the Oz dollar to around 50c to the US $ or  even less.
There are some 160 major companies making billions in profits here who have never paid a cent in income tax  to this countries detriment (ATO report) and the current right wing govt here are bent on preserving this, despite their denials, as they depend on those companies  donations  to  survive.

I wish we had a Duterte in power over here.

Economic refugees  from Oz who were well off a few years ago  will result in a reverse migration from this country and one needs to get out NOW.
Also  this means that retirees from Oz may soon not be able to afford to retire in the Philippines and countries like Ecuador with less expensive costs for visas and means of living and more equable rights for foreigners  shall be more attractive.   You ask why the Philippines?  Well from all the videos I have seen it is a most beautiful country and the Filipinos, if you find the right ones and they look to be many, seem very likable people and I think one could make some fine and lasting friends with them.

This also means that Oz retirees in the Philippines on an RSSV  , dependant on an Oz age pension or lower range super payouts, may well soon have an income which dips below the minimum monthly income required by law in the Philippines to remain in the country.  (its in $US remember)  Its possible mass deportations could apply if the govt  applies the law too strictly.  I hope this does not happen but the govt would then be within legal rights to do so if they wished.

Steve , you are open about your relationship and I no longer  give a hoot about that.  If you are  honest, have empathy for others but  don't force your choice of life on others then may you continue to have happiness and fulfillment in your life.  I didn't always feel that way.        In Thailand, married  to a very beautiful Thai girl, I severely injured my back in an accident.  Not wishing to have a disk fusion operation I was convinced to visit a Buddhist monk in Pattaya who claimed a cure.
Waiting for an introduction from a Thai woman who had been cured by him and  owned a beach umbrella concession I was lifted onto a deckchair where I could not move  while my wife swam in the sea. Next to me was a collection of very lovely Thai girls , most wearing bikinis and all definitely centre fold quality. Finding out I was more or less paralysed they gathered around me, bought me food from beach vendors and hand fed me, all genuinely concerned about my condition. When my wife came back I was worried as Thai women are VERY jealous, but she was no problem.  Later she told me that those 'girls' were all males who had operations and etc to make them female!!!!   Katois , all of them!  They were specially  beautiful as they were all hand picked to star in a famous local show  for tourists which ran nightly.
I never forgot their genuine compassion and caring attitude and my outlook on  such changed for the better after that.
And that monk did cure me!  Soon fathered 4 children and years  later I can still easily lift 40 plus Kg weights onto my truck .

Thanks you again, Steve, for your most useful comments
My Best Regards
John

lasvegan said
>>Hi Hperef
I have lived in Ecuador and now one year this time in Phil's! I much prefer Ecuador overall if ownership of property is a priority! Climate change is going to be serious problem for Philippines! My preferred place to live is actually Mexico! My next stop is Ensenada where I have already shipped in 4 53' containers to make my home in! I have done this before and it is by far the best and cheapest home option if you have the time!! >>
------------------------
Thanks for your reply lasvegan
I tend to agree with your comments on Ecuador . Stability of home  ownership is my primary concern
and either outright ownership or fully protected leased property within an irrefutable  law would be  a last resort as I would be living out the rest of my life in it.
While its been stated, quite correctly on this site,  that Ecuador prosperity depends on its oil revenue and further that the right wing new govt installed there, which seems anti native, may give future problems, at least the prospects of not being turfed out of your purchased home or rental home is far less of a probability than in the Philippines.

Why, there even a law which states that a Filipino who is renting a house to a foreigner (or even another Filipino?) and  whose renter  has a contract for long lease period of 12 or 24 months, duly legally signed , can STILL evict you with a 28 day? notice,  no matter of how well you care for the property  and despite the legal paperwork if the Filipino owner wants to put a relative into your rental instead!! 
I am all for a country protecting its citizens but when that country advertises its "friendliness" to retiring foreigners willing to invest in it (and retirement there  is a form of investment) , yet does not advise on the facts that there are huge  risks in so doing by an over the top set of laws protecting locals which actually encourage disenfranchising  such investors, then in the end  this does more  potential damage to the Philippine economy  and its reputation than good.
Filipinos  (and others) can invest and buy land and houses outright in Australia, but we cant do the same in their country!
There should be a reciprocation law here which states that if an Australian cant own property in a country then citizens of that country should not be able to do so here either.
Your comment on future weather problems impacting the Philippines has already been noted by me .
The river systems which criss cross the country and are fed from the sea are a ready source of flooding and erosion as already evidenced by the recent devastating typhoon causing storm urges  and I fear for the Filipino peoples so affected.    It always seems to be the poor who are affected worst of all who have earned my admiration and respect for their ability to shrug these things off and get on with life regardless.

Containers as housing:  I have came across a company in the Philippines who convert those into houses , but seem to be rental only.  Could be a good solution as you say, when properly insulated and installed  though more easily washed away by flooding, but may be more water tight too.  So put a big outboard motor on one end and sail it out of trouble in a flood?

Finally I have to admit to a gross error on my part, as pointed out by another subscriber.
(Thanks for that)
The retirement scheme I referred to should be SRRV , not RSSV   as I stated and which I incorrectly marked on my info card I refer to when using this site.   A senior moment made at 2 am in the morning
during the severe heatwaves we have been put through here.

Best regards lasvegan
John

John, looking back on all you have said, learned input and wise, again I, if I can ask why the Philippines with all its foibles?
Most that live here do so for love, cupid strikes all over the word and some like myself choose to live here for what we found within. As said by myself, yourself and others there are plenty of cheaper, congenial and secure countries to retire too.
For me and many others while the cost of living there is favourable,,,, declining yes and if it ever gets to say 20 pesos to the Aussie dollar then  we will reevaluate and perhaps move back to Oz or a different adventure.
If I were a single man? Asian countries would be for visits, Europe has my heart for holiday destinations and possible living. Fortunately I met a fantastic man 8 years ago who is Filipino, has a lovely undemanding family, friends also, most likely because my better half spent 5 years living and working in a foreign country and quickly learnt that not all Aussies are wealthy, just comfortable.

Home is where you find it but it has to be for the right reasons.

Cheers, Steve.

Hi Steve
"Why the Philippines?" Well, I am more travelled in Asia than many and have an innate interest in the history of those  countries and their various cultures.  I try to live or travel among the common peoples when I can as that's where  the heart of each nation resides.  Now , as every one here knows, the Philippines is made of of many scattered islands , most of them historically isolated from one another before modern communications systems with TV reared their  hydra like heads to both inform and misinform the people,  both a blessing and a curse combined
Many of those islands still retain some of their  individuality and languages.
I find this fascinating as there are more than enough disparity between the differing Filipino peoples ways of life, their cultures, to learn about which is more than my estimated lifespan could encompass .  Thus , say , based in a home of my own, conferring a personal stability on my residence in the country, I could from time to time travel on a voyage of discovery, or re discovery, amongst them and write up my travels to reflect upon them in my older age when I may be physically unable to continue.  Thus I  would NEVER be bored or take to drink as some  expats seem to do through boredom, or so I have been informed.
Now there are other geographical parts of the world, like Indonesia which also have a similar magnificence in topology to the Philippines.   The Philippines appeals over Indonesia as a lot of its real history has been suppressed by both the Spaniards, Americans and the Catholic church for that matter, though some individuals have attempted to alleviate this position.  My added interest would be to try to ascertain how such suppression's have affected the psychology of the peoples in differing areas, their national outlooks, traditional religions and the affect on their languages, Tagalog being an immediate example.  The true position of the Huks in Philippines history is another one  of both historical suppression and also , I feel, deliberate misrepresentation both in movies and in modern written history in the Wests press which I would like to investigate more fully.  Were  the Huk's actually real heroes of the Filipino peoples or  were they the savages depicted by the Wests media?  I don't think they were.
Well, Steve, in a nutshell that's one of my reasons for wanting to reside in the Philippines, that and the wonderful resilience of its ordinary peoples in the face of volcanoes and floods  which are an ever present danger in that country.
I have no lasting interest in Europe, whose histories have been repeatedly and recently well documented already, especially  by some admirable archaeological luminaries in a number of  recent and most excellent BBC documentaries.
Its high time the Philippines  histories  were as well scrutinised that way.
Unfortunately it does seem that this country does not properly cater for the necessary stability , or means of actual permanent  residence that a person of limited financial means requires to implement  this.  (I cant live in a condo, its like living in communal jail cells to me)
May fortune smile on you and yours in your adopted country.
I think you are most fortunate

Regards
John

Well said John and while not as passionate as yourself have looked at the history of these fine, (still do) and as you say resilient people. Agree.
I asked my better half 6 or 7 years ago when we lived in Manila (Condo  yes and never again) What faith/religion were Filipinos prior to the Spanish colonisation? BTW He and I are Catholic. His response?

"We, this country have always been Catholic and the other religions came with the Spanish. Not that he or I really care as we are both non practicing but when I suggested that in the 11th century Islam was slowly introduced with traders and a couple of centuries later was in full swing in southern PH. he denied and said the Muslim insurgence is recent.

One has to ask what is learned in schools especially when it comes to pride of ones country, history and litter for example.
I do have to agree though John that the Filipino people in general are a wonder, in the face of poverty and uncertainty most times have a smile and fortunately seem to live day to day successfully with no thought of next week.
I love my family there as they certainly seem more genuine and compassionate compared to my own children and family in OZ,,,,, as we say home is where you find it.

As for securing a house and lot in your name for your future security? Difficult as a single entity unless you find a long term lease, a Filipino you can trust to accomplish the same or an old transferable title.

I wish you luck with your venture and if you you do settle in PH., will always be welcome in our house. Gods speed with your search.

Cheers, Steve.

hpxref wrote:

The true position of the Huks in Philippines history is another one  of both historical suppression and also , I feel, deliberate misrepresentation both in movies and in modern written history in the Wests press which I would like to investigate more fully.  Were  the Huk's actually real heroes of the Filipino peoples or  were they the savages depicted by the Wests media?  I don't think they were.

Sounds like a fun project.  Of course the Huks fought the Japanese, so in that sense they were heroes like many other Filipinos.  Mao in China fought the Japanese when he wasn't busy getting ready to fight the existing government.  I don't see Mao as a hero in China, millions of people dying through his policies.  One would expect the Huks, as avowed communists, to get bad press in the West.  Taking up arms against the newly independent Philippines in 1946 was not a plan for success.  They were of course vilified by the government and the western press as the cold war took off.  History gets written by the winners, read about the American War starting in 1899.  At least 250,000 Filipinos were killed, men, women and children.  No area bombing,  this was up close and personal.  Entire villages wiped out, does not get the publicity of similar acts in Vietnam 67 years later.  Nothing was ever taught in American schools or even college history classes about said war.  Read all about starting public schools, providing military protection etc.  The Huks took up armed rebellion  against the legal government of the Philippines.  Of course there are people in the USA who build statues to Robert E Lee, who also lead a 4 year armed rebellion which claimed more than 600,000 lives.  Good luck in your research .

Most of the western writers on the Huk rebellion are sympathetic to the Huk.

Benedict John Kerkvliet is probably the most important scholar on this question

Mugtech, I warm to you more and more!
You said you were a historian and your words prove that indeed you are a proper one!
I was well aware of the American mass massacres (and horrific tortures) of the Filipino peoples, overall worse than  even that  of  the Japanese  in WW11 when it was reported they threw babies in the air and bayoneted them .  I believe it was on a bridge in Manila somewhere but would have to retrieve my buried notes on that to check.... unless it was just bad press but there is plenty of other evidence which proves that it could well have happened.
I was aware of the sensitivities of many Americans on issues like these ( and reluctant to make any passing comment on Americas  proclivity to re write history in its image, though I guess I really shouldn't on this site anyway, its not a history channel,)  but I am indebted on such comments made to assist me in my choice of the Philippines to retire in and that does include its history) .....  in case it damaged my efforts to get help on the SRRV situation.
As far as the Huks being communist its my  own and many others observations of human nature that when  a group or race or people are very badly treated by unjust acts against them and their loved ones, then a natural rebellion against the established order which has deliberately , or even accidentally by a lack of wisdom, debilitated them can be a result , if not a foregone conclusion and communism may well have seemed a more just way of life to them at the time, whether it occurred naturally to them through a necessity to survive socially or was introduced by an outside entity.  Or possibly they were simply called communists due to their rebellion as they had risen up against those who they thought were repressing them.  That would have been a label of convenience to the authorities at that time to win public favour for their extermination ...and that's one of the things I would have liked to investigate more thoroughly if I should have emigrated over there as many Filipinos seem totally unaware of some vital parts of their own history, and that's not necessarily their fault. (See Steves comment on this)
If it barks like a dog, well it aint necessarily a dog.

Mugtech, its been a real pleasure communicating  with you and I really appreciate your intellect and honesty!  Who knows, if I do get over there and  ever get to meet you personally I would be privileged , should you be a drinking man, to buy you one or a few of your favorite beers!

Again, thanking you for your most rational and educational inputs
John

Hi Steve: An answer and maybe a way out of getting a cheap long term home to rent?
As I feared, your friend is a product of a over biased and in denial education system in the Philippines.
Good person though he may be his reactions are exactly what the education system there wants him to believe  One can only hope he and all the other good Filipinos come to realise how thoroughly they have been fooled by the system and learn to come to terms with it in an honest manner,  They should  be able to learn about their  own country properly.   Mugtech has reported on this better than I can.

I have recently been a bit distressed by some aspects pf the Philippines I was not yet fully aware of, just a bit aware but not to the extend I thought I knew.
One was the report of the lack of nursing staff in Cebu and other major hospitals , there being a very  low rate of pay, even in the private system.   Waiting times for major surgery seem to be getting as bad as our hospital system is getting now here in Oz.
I have a soft spot for nurses , they are  a vitally essential part of the medical system of any country.
I hope they get a better deal.    Duterte, take notice!

Another was a recent suggestion of how to gain a long term rental, almost like a lease, of a house in the Philippines.
I was privately contacted by an ex pat who recognised my sign on reference from its use on technical sites and obtained my email address from it.  He was in Perth visiting his sister at the time and arranged a meet.
He told me  had obtained a long term 5 year rental of a near new double story home in a housing estate, apparently one built for lower to middle class Filipinos which  was built to help eradicate slums in the barrios.  He found out about it from a go go girl he was with at the time, her sister being the wife of a man who had paid the  bank deposit on a house there . This man had been working overseas (M.E.) but had to return due to instability in the area.  His job with a construction co based in Manila ceased when they failed to win a contract and he was in danger of losing his home to the bank as he had not paid off the loan for some weeks and could not find  more work.   The expat, who also had found that rents and house prices in Manila  had risen out of his reach from when he started his SRRV enquiries  made the suggestion to the girl that he could take over the bank  payments , pay off the arrears and pay a bit more than the bank repayments to the Filipino owner, saving his home for him
It turns out that the Filipino had already made arrangements to return to his parents farm in the country and was already packing to leave as he had no way of paying off the back payments etc. and had three  weeks to go before foreclosure.
She took him to see the place, high density double story tenement style housing in a guarded enclosure
and he showed me photos he took of it in his smart phone.  Neat enough places , 3 bedrooms but two of the rooms tiny and no yard or laundry area and small common kitchen plus lounge.  An end house with provision for outside parking  for a small car.  He made the arrangement with the owner and now lived there , big enough for a single person and fairly safe, with proper sewage and water plumbing. and had permission through the owners name  to install  two split level air cons,   cheaper through the wall units not allowed.
He told me bank repossessions were fairly common there and that I could probably arrange a similar situation to his own.
He said he was helping a Filipino family out so they would not lose their house they had put so much into and that his rent was ridiculously low each month ( 10 year bank repayment plan ) even accounting for the extra he paid  monthly to the family to help them out on the farm!
And when they returned they would come back to a much improved home!
He reckons he had the 5 year rental agreement drawn up by an attorney with the banks approval and stating he could not be put out of the home for 5 years without his own permission.

As a medium term solution how viable do you guys think this is and is it legal?  Is there a law forbidding Filipino owners renting out such houses in low cost estates like this to foreigners?
Another thing he told me that there was a lot of young teen aged prostitutes on the estate, that their mothers were putting them on the streets locally  as well as sending them to Angeles  to earn money to pay off the bank loans!!   So some of the homes at least were being  paid for from the proceeds of prostitution! 
If that's the actual legal case  there, is there  a possibility of doing the same in larger stand alone houses in other parts of the country?   One could be doing a good turn to a Filipino by saving his home from the bank for him when fortune has turned against him?
The estate he is on is not too far from Makita, which suits this man.   I won't say where as I don't want to compromise him or to scandalise the people in that estate if what he had done is against the law, but it sounds above board???
What do you more experienced  and knowledgeable expats think??
John

geolefrench said
<<Most of the western writers on the Huk rebellion are sympathetic to the Huk.

Benedict John Kerkvliet is probably the most important scholar on this question>>

Thank you for that . I shall look him up and find out more....just starting on that  research and this should prove most useful
Thanks to you again
Regards
John

William Pomeroy, the forest

He was an American who was part of the Huk and he is telling his story when he was in the jungle with them

Wow, thanks for that extra info....will try to  get his book too
Have ordered Kerkvliets book from the net  He was a academic at an Australian university
Looks like you have gone well down that road, geolfrench
Much obliged for passing on your knowledge

John

hpxref wrote:

Hi Steve: An answer and maybe a way out of getting a cheap long term home to rent?
As I feared, your friend is a product of a over biased and in denial education system in the Philippines.
Good person though he may be his reactions are exactly what the education system there wants him to believe  One can only hope he and all the other good Filipinos come to realise how thoroughly they have been fooled by the system and learn to come to terms with it in an honest manner,  They should  be able to learn about their  own country properly.   Mugtech has reported on this better than I can.

I have recently been a bit distressed by some aspects pf the Philippines I was not yet fully aware of, just a bit aware but not to the extend I thought I knew.
One was the report of the lack of nursing staff in Cebu and other major hospitals , there being a very  low rate of pay, even in the private system.   Waiting times for major surgery seem to be getting as bad as our hospital system is getting now here in Oz.
I have a soft spot for nurses , they are  a vitally essential part of the medical system of any country.
I hope they get a better deal.    Duterte, take notice!

Another was a recent suggestion of how to gain a long term rental, almost like a lease, of a house in the Philippines.
I was privately contacted by an ex pat who recognised my sign on reference from its use on technical sites and obtained my email address from it.  He was in Perth visiting his sister at the time and arranged a meet.
He told me  had obtained a long term 5 year rental of a near new double story home in a housing estate, apparently one built for lower to middle class Filipinos which  was built to help eradicate slums in the barrios.  He found out about it from a go go girl he was with at the time, her sister being the wife of a man who had paid the  bank deposit on a house there . This man had been working overseas (M.E.) but had to return due to instability in the area.  His job with a construction co based in Manila ceased when they failed to win a contract and he was in danger of losing his home to the bank as he had not paid off the loan for some weeks and could not find  more work.   The expat, who also had found that rents and house prices in Manila  had risen out of his reach from when he started his SRRV enquiries  made the suggestion to the girl that he could take over the bank  payments , pay off the arrears and pay a bit more than the bank repayments to the Filipino owner, saving his home for him
It turns out that the Filipino had already made arrangements to return to his parents farm in the country and was already packing to leave as he had no way of paying off the back payments etc. and had three  weeks to go before foreclosure.
She took him to see the place, high density double story tenement style housing in a guarded enclosure
and he showed me photos he took of it in his smart phone.  Neat enough places , 3 bedrooms but two of the rooms tiny and no yard or laundry area and small common kitchen plus lounge.  An end house with provision for outside parking  for a small car.  He made the arrangement with the owner and now lived there , big enough for a single person and fairly safe, with proper sewage and water plumbing. and had permission through the owners name  to install  two split level air cons,   cheaper through the wall units not allowed.
He told me bank repossessions were fairly common there and that I could probably arrange a similar situation to his own.
He said he was helping a Filipino family out so they would not lose their house they had put so much into and that his rent was ridiculously low each month ( 10 year bank repayment plan ) even accounting for the extra he paid  monthly to the family to help them out on the farm!
And when they returned they would come back to a much improved home!
He reckons he had the 5 year rental agreement drawn up by an attorney with the banks approval and stating he could not be put out of the home for 5 years without his own permission.

As a medium term solution how viable do you guys think this is and is it legal?  Is there a law forbidding Filipino owners renting out such houses in low cost estates like this to foreigners?
Another thing he told me that there was a lot of young teen aged prostitutes on the estate, that their mothers were putting them on the streets locally  as well as sending them to Angeles  to earn money to pay off the bank loans!!   So some of the homes at least were being  paid for from the proceeds of prostitution! 
If that's the actual legal case  there, is there  a possibility of doing the same in larger stand alone houses in other parts of the country?   One could be doing a good turn to a Filipino by saving his home from the bank for him when fortune has turned against him?
The estate he is on is not too far from Makita, which suits this man.   I won't say where as I don't want to compromise him or to scandalise the people in that estate if what he had done is against the law, but it sounds above board???
What do you more experienced  and knowledgeable expats think??
John

Firstly a very Merry Christmas to you and your family John, all members as well.

Our situation is a loophole within an un enquiring education system or perhaps denial with a gay community  and to date has me baffled, one only needs to look at the acceptance with the likes of Vice Ganda (Prime time television) and the in your face "homosexuality is normal". My schooling in Oz was boring, naive even, and I left the education system as a 15 Y/O and have prospered. My high school was boring, the lessons were boring but they did teach me to enquire and from observation the Filipino people that go through the normal/standard education system fail to see the big picture and if one asks the response is in laymen terms "don't rock the boat". "That's how it is here" Always my answer is "It doesn't have to be that way",,,,,,,, all things Filipino.

I haven't seen this one quoted for awhile, "More fun in the Philippines" Oh and then some, navigating an archaic system at times makes the mind boggle.

As said it doesn't have to be or needn't be this way. You guys are simply creating employment in the wrong areas and can I sheepishly ask? Where did that come from. It certainly wasn't the 350 years of Spanish occupation. LOL, perhaps I have gone off track but it is Christmas.

Cheers, Steve.