Foreigners allowed to change visa status while in Việt Nam

Great to see their are slowly relaxing their rules. Contributing members  of society are being welcomed. As Thailand cleanses the unwanted, Vietnam certainly doesn't want the exodus of unwanted settling in their country.
I wouldn't want the pattaya crowd moving in next door to me either!

It's only for certain people, not the average expat.

colinoscapee wrote:

It's only for certain people, not the average expat.

From the article "Foreign workers who receive job offers in Việt Nam or enter the country on e-visas will be able to change their visa status as long as they have a work permit or confirmation they are exempt from a work permit."  I may be reading this wrong but this seems to me that one could now enter on a tourist visa, get an ESL job, get a work permit, and ask for a new visa without leaving the country.  This scenario used to be common before the prior changes which required one to leave and reenter in order to activate a DN visa.  I expect that ESL teachers are the "average" expat (or perhaps more mathematically the modal expat.)

If you are retired and don't want to work you can become an investor (it wasn't that difficult) you can get a two year work permit exemption (again, it was not that difficult) and take advantage of this even if you are retired, not working and don't have or need a work permit.

THIGV wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

It's only for certain people, not the average expat.

From the article "Foreign workers who receive job offers in Việt Nam or enter the country on e-visas will be able to change their visa status as long as they have a work permit or confirmation they are exempt from a work permit."  I may be reading this wrong but this seems to me that one could now enter on a tourist visa, get an ESL job, get a work permit, and ask for a new visa without leaving the country.  This scenario used to be common before the prior changes which required one to leave and reenter in order to activate a DN visa.  I expect that ESL teachers are the "average" expat (or perhaps more mathematically the modal expat.)

Most teachers dont have work permits, therefore your thinking is null and void. Many expats here are retirees, I think they would outnumber teachers obtaining a WP.

SteinNebraska wrote:

If you are retired and don't want to work you can become an investor (it wasn't that difficult) you can get a two year work permit exemption (again, it was not that difficult) and take advantage of this even if you are retired, not working and don't have or need a work permit.

What is the cost comparison?

colinoscapee wrote:

What is the cost comparison?

Well, the investor side can be wide open as far as investment but if it is done correctly it should be a profit center, not a cost.

The work permit exemption will be a couple hundred with a local lawyer.

Again, if truly retired and one has the funds to invest, it shouldn't "cost" anything and in fact provide an income stream.

For instance, one thing I have thought about doing in the next two years is buying or building a pharmacy, setting up my niece to run it as soon as she finishes university.  She has her pharmacy degree from college now and is getting her university degree.  She can't own one or be sole proprietor, one or the other, I don't recall which, unless she has a university degree. 

I would basically bankroll it, be listed as the primary shareholder and then start "selling her" shares as she builds the business and can pay back the initial loan.  Eventually she would become the primary shareholder and I would become the minority owner and keep it for an income stream or let her buy it out totally over time.  That relationship could be structured in any way the two of you agree.  It's just one example of an investor relationship with no direct knowledge of the business itself.

Sorry, double post.  Went to edit and clicked "quote"

SteinNebraska wrote:

Sorry, double post.  Went to edit and clicked "quote"

What have you done as far as tax reporting, this would be another issie for many retirees. If they receive a pension in their home country, it could get complicated.

colinoscapee wrote:

Most teachers dont have work permits, therefore your thinking is null and void. Many expats here are retirees, I think they would outnumber teachers obtaining a WP.

I suppose you are correct.  I even wonder if anyone (government?) has real statistics.  On second thought my guesses would be from larger to smaller group:

1) ESL teachers without WP
2) Retirees (likely over represented on this forum.)
3) ESL teachers with WP

As such, the admittedly smaller third group should benefit from the changes.  Tourist visa entry, get a job, get a WP, switch to a DN visa altogether may be more than can be done on a 90 day visa, so at least one visa run may still be necessary.  The exception would be US citizens who can remain for 180 days on their 1 yr tourist visa..

colinoscapee wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

Sorry, double post.  Went to edit and clicked "quote"

What have you done as far as tax reporting, this would be another issie for many retirees. If they receive a pension in their home country, it could get complicated.

Yes it would.  And in the US they tax worldwide income. As does Vietnam.  Saw a recent article where someone was living here and blogging and actually making big money doing it.  Got slapped with a huge tax bill from Vietnam because he wasn't paying taxes anywhere.  But if you just live here more than 6 months in a year Vietnam considers you a tax resident.  This could catch a lot of people.

This is my first tax year and we are working through that right now and into tax season next year.  Each country gives credit for tax paid in the other country so there isn't double tax but because the Vietnam tax rate is 25% and my US tax rate is 32% I'll have to pay an extra 7% to the US government on anything earned in Vietnam.  I won't have to pay anything in Vietnam on money earned in the US because the tax rate in the US is already higher than Vietnam's tax rate.

NOW, if you are a US citizen AND you don't go to the US more than 35 days in the calendar year you are exempt from paying taxes in the US for the first $102,400 or thereabouts this year of income.  That doesn't help a lot if you earn income in Vietnam as Vietnam will still tax you.  But if you are drawing funds from a  401K or other investments those taxes wouldn't be due the US government.  Next sticky point though, if you live here, Vietnam will want 25% of that money if and when they find out about it.

If I have correctly understood what Google Translate translated, I read on VnExpress that Phu Quoc is the only special economic zone that meets the 4 requirements for visa exemption for foreigner.

Very good thread, especially with SteinNebraska's contribution.  I wonder if we can save it for future inquiries under a different title, something along the line of "Visa options and tax obligations for expats".

I don't have time to check with the admin though.  We'll be away tomorrow until the last day of 2019, and I'll not be on the forum much at all during that period.

SteinNebraska wrote:

NOW, if you are a US citizen AND you don't go to the US more than 35 days in the calendar year you are exempt from paying taxes in the US for the first $102,400 or thereabouts this year of income.  That doesn't help a lot if you earn income in Vietnam as Vietnam will still tax you.  But if you are drawing funds from a  401K or other investments those taxes wouldn't be due the US government.  Next sticky point though, if you live here, Vietnam will want 25% of that money if and when they find out about it.

Not so fast, cowboy*. You left out the adjective 'earned'. Foreign Earned Income Exclusion.
There is earned, unearned, and variable income.
You can't exclude unearned income: Dividends, interest, capital gains, social security, pensions etc.
Also variable income maybe or maybe not be: business profits, royalties, rents

Even withdrawals from Traditional IRAs are taxed as regular income. It was earned income when you deposited it tax-free, so you can't get out of paying that income tax eventually.

IRS - What is Foreign Earned Income?

* John Wayne probably.

As I have stated before, going down the road of setting up a company just to gain a longterm visa is not viable to most expats.

colinoscapee wrote:

As I have stated before, going down the road of setting up a company just to gain a longterm visa is not viable to most expats.

But those that have business interests, legitimate business interests, now have the option.

Canman62 wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

As I have stated before, going down the road of setting up a company just to gain a longterm visa is not viable to most expats.

But those that have business interests, legitimate business interests, now have the option.

Of course, but my posts are in reference to the beginning of this thread, not just the last few posts. Most expats dont own a business here, the new rules wont be of any benefit to the average expat.

i guess this means the visa operators are going to take a hit.

I have read the government news, and it doesn't make much different than the current law for the Visa process. That's benefits only for Investor or official employees in Vietnam.

Johnfrich wrote:

i guess this means the visa operators are going to take a hit.

i don't think so, when I extended last winter, government immigration told me I had to use a visa agent- company. They have already forwarded the business to these companies.

I lived in Thailand for many years and relocated to Vietnam this year.
I paid tax to Thailand, and none to my country. Fully legal.
What is the documentation requirements for money  transfer to VIETNAM to pay tax?
In Thailand it was rather complicated with a credit transfer from the bank for every transfer.
How in Vietnam?

RealPommy wrote:

I lived in Thailand for many years and relocated to Vietnam this year.
I paid tax to Thailand, and none to my country. Fully legal.
What is the documentation requirements for money  transfer to VIETNAM to pay tax?
In Thailand it was rather complicated with a credit transfer from the bank for every transfer.
How in Vietnam?

I've only done one wire transfer so far from an American bank in US dollars.

I think there may have been a very small service charge, and also the small hit when exchanging the dollars into dong and depositing them into my Vietnamese Bank.

Pretty sure I didn't pay a "tax", but I'm about to do another wire transfer and I'll get back to you with a breakdown of any charges.

I am in the exact same position.

I would very much appreciate it if you would explain how & why this was not difficult to do and the minimum investment required to be an Investor.
Any VN contacts you can provide would also be most welcome.
Thank you.

colinoscapee wrote:

As I have stated before, going down the road of setting up a company just to gain a longterm visa is not viable to most expats.

If this Coronavirus takes a hold here , I don’t think too many will be looking at a long term stay.
Nha Trang for instance, lots of expats &  gets 200,000 thousand Chinese tourists a month , including up until yesterday , regular flights from Wuyan , the epicentre of this outbreak.

It’s worth keeping an eye on.   If there’s an outbreak here you’d be a fool to hang around regardless of visa status.  China are clearly the bulk of tourism throughout Asia...and the world.

Visas will be the last thing on peoples minds.

Ontheroad57 wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

As I have stated before, going down the road of setting up a company just to gain a longterm visa is not viable to most expats.

If this Coronavirus takes a hold here , I don’t think too many will be looking at a long term stay.
Nha Trang for instance, lots of expats &  gets 200,000 thousand Chinese tourists a month , including up until yesterday , regular flights from Wuyan , the epicentre of this outbreak.

It’s worth keeping an eye on.   If there’s an outbreak here you’d be a fool to hang around regardless of visa status.  China are clearly the bulk of tourism throughout Asia...and the world.

Visas will be the last thing on peoples minds.

The media are panicking again. And therefore are a lot of people too.

But you should consider that in Germany alone about 20,000 people die from the normal flu every year.
Especially older people, people with pre-existing conditions and small children are at risk.

China has learned from the Sars epidemic 17 years ago and has informed and reacted well and quickly.
Wuhan was practically quarantined.

People are being scanned for fever in airports.

A three-layer medical mask helps to protect oneself when moving in crowds.
There you should also not touch mouth, nose and eyes with your hands and wash your hands often.

As long as there are no more infected people outside of China, I don't see a big danger.

I have booked 2 trips to Asia in the 2nd half of February.
I will almost certainly not cancel them.

Speak of the devil,,

2 confirmed cases of the Coronavirus in Vietnam.  One of them detected in Nha Trang.   
Just saw that on Australian News .

A local told me that this morning as well, but we’re awaiting confirmation.

Something to think about I suppose.  The yanks shoot each other dead about 40,000 a year & 50,000 a MONTH die from eating too many donuts......heart attacks.

Gotta go one way or another 🤓

Ontheroad57 wrote:

Speak of the devil,,

2 confirmed cases of the Coronavirus in Vietnam.  One of them detected in Nha Trang.   
Just saw that on Australian News .

A local told me that this morning as well, but we’re awaiting confirmation.

Something to think about I suppose.  The yanks shoot each other dead about 40,000 a year & 50,000 a MONTH die from eating too many donuts......heart attacks.

Gotta go one way or another 🤓

You can also read VNExpress (not the English version). Perceived 80% of the articles are about it.

2 Sick!
Tens of thousands die every year in Vietnam from bad air and smoking.
There is less to read about that.

The main concern in Nha Trang seems to be the Tourism impact on their pockets.   
If you look at the way they drive , life’s cheap here.

If more cities in China stop flights  it will impact the region .

The other thing is authorities being “ seen to do the right thing”  and  that’s very prevalent in this day and age.    A knee jerk reaction to shut down flights until they figure out how to manage this thing could take ages.   

There will be lots  of worried tourism operators that depend on Chinese tourists. 

I rode back from Lotte mart yesterday afternoon,  got clipped on the shoulder by a bus overtaking me 😆😆
The roads here are more to worry about.

Ontheroad57 wrote:

The main concern in Nha Trang seems to be the Tourism impact on their pockets.   
If you look at the way they drive , life’s cheap here.

If more cities in China stop flights  it will impact the region .

The other thing is authorities being “ seen to do the right thing”  and  that’s very prevalent in this day and age.    A knee jerk reaction to shut down flights until they figure out how to manage this thing could take ages.   

There will be lots  of worried tourism operators that depend on Chinese tourists. 

I rode back from Lotte mart yesterday afternoon,  got clipped on the shoulder by a bus overtaking me 😆😆
The roads here are more to worry about.

There are also two cases that are treated at the Cho Ray hospital in Saigon.
One of them was in Long An, some kilometers from where I live.

Let's wait and see what happens next.
I'm not worried yet.

There is already feverish research on a vaccine.

My question was about paying tax on your pension to Vietnam. My country has a tax agreement with Vietnam, stating that if I live in Vietnam more than 180 days a year, I'm obliged to pay tax. No problem. The tax rate on my meager pension is 10% in Vietnam compared to my country.

Transferring money is no problem.

That's not the issue.

I just want who to contact to get the details right.

Real

RealPommy wrote:

My question was about paying tax on your pension to Vietnam. My country has a tax agreement with Vietnam, stating that if I live in Vietnam more than 180 days a year, I'm obliged to pay tax. No problem. The tax rate on my meager pension is 10% in Vietnam compared to my country.

Transferring money is no problem.

That's not the issue.

I just want who to contact to get the details right.

Real

This thread has the title "Foreigners allowed to change visa status while in Việt Nam".
Why do you not open a new thread to get support for your tax request?

I just know that pension income is not taxed in Vietnam.
I am an early pensioner and currently live from my savings until I receive a pension in 5 years.
So at the moment I have no income and pay no taxes. In 5 years I will not pay taxes for the pension either.
I have recently discovered that I have a tax number. But since I don't have to pay taxes I haven't done anything yet.

I think here it is not like in the west where you get a tax return which you have to fill out even if you don't have to pay taxes.
Here in the countryside when you mention the word "taxes" everybody laughs.
I don't know anybody who pays taxes or has ever been to the tax office.

Maybe you will find what you are looking for here:
Vietnam Pocket Tax Book 2019

AkaMaverick wrote:

RealPommy wrote:

My question was about paying tax on your pension to Vietnam.

This thread has the title "Foreigners allowed to change visa status while in Việt Nam".
Why do you not open a new thread to get support for your tax request?

Better than opening a new thread maybe one could look here:   https://www.expat.com/forum/219-9-tax-in-vietnam.html  Several tax questions are answered there and likely at least one answer covers taxes on pensions.

Ontheroad57 wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

As I have stated before, going down the road of setting up a company just to gain a longterm visa is not viable to most expats.

If this Coronavirus takes a hold here , I don’t think too many will be looking at a long term stay.
Nha Trang for instance, lots of expats &  gets 200,000 thousand Chinese tourists a month , including up until yesterday , regular flights from Wuyan , the epicentre of this outbreak.

It’s worth keeping an eye on.   If there’s an outbreak here you’d be a fool to hang around regardless of visa status.  China are clearly the bulk of tourism throughout Asia...and the world.

Visas will be the last thing on peoples minds.

There are more cases in France right now than Vietnam, and just as many in the US.  With so much air travel, I don't think proximity matters as much as it once did.  An epidemic could happen anywhere if the virus mutates enough to become really dangerous.  Or if the current strain is more dangerous than they currently believe.  I'm crossing my fingers because I'm in a high-risk group now.

Hello everyone,

Please note that this is an old thread and many things have changed since.

I am closing this one and updated thread will be launched on the Vietnam forum soon.

Regards,

Bhavna

[Topic Closed]