Denied to marry my Brazilian girlfriend

Good afternoon,

As far as I know, your situation isn't common in the South, or in any other region in Brazil, or treated with any sympathy when it occurs.  I doubt very much that you'll get an answer more to your liking in any other state.

In your situation, my first step would be to consult a lawyer:  you've been living here two years, you or your fiancée's extended family must know someone.

If that's not practical for you, or doesn't produce a result,  consider traveling to a neighboring country,  getting married there, registering your marriage at the local Brazilian Consulate, applying for a VITEM XI visa, and returning.   You will need to pay your overstay penalty on departure:   if you try to leave it for your return, you may be denied the VITEM XI, and be unable to return.

Good luck.

In my opinion, I do not believe going to court will help. Cartorio's are approved by the court. DPF has final say as to immigration.
Overstaying visa is the first step to overcome. Such a long overstay can even mean denial of re-entry for a certain amount of time.
Have you discuss this with the DPF?
I would suggest marry in you country, but you still need a visa.

If you marry at a neighboring country, you need money to operate. Money is also needed to hire a lawyer, pay your fine. Does your bride be able to supply the funds?

It goes without saying that resolving the problems attendant on an overstay of almost two years is going to cost quite a bit of money,  one way or another.   And Tex is right, that the least complicated solution is for you and your fiancée to go back to Ukraine, get married,  and return as a married couple. 

You've taken that option off the table, so the challenge is finding a solution closer to home, that doesn't get you a Departure Order from the Federal Police.

Overall, that still needs money - 2 round trip tickets, the fine payment and other misc
expenses. I know of a legal loophole but I can´t mention that for fear that every illegal
would use it to dribble their way into Brazil. It´s up for Brazilian authorities to fix that.

Please don´t PM me. It´s your own outlook to research it.

robal

I went to PF 2 days ago and didn't get departure order. I have a boleto to pay 10000 RS during next 60 days. And I have 10 days to appeal.

I'm not saying I can't pay a lawyer or the fine. What I'm saying I'm trying to spend less money and time. Hastle less too. And there is no need of my bribe's funds.

CaraDeCharuto wrote:

I went to PF 2 days ago and didn't get departure order. I have a boleto to pay 10000 RS during next 60 days. And I have 10 days to appeal.

I'm not saying I can't pay a lawyer or the fine. What I'm saying I'm trying to spend less money and time. Hastle less too. And there is no need of my bribe's funds.

You were lucky to receive a boleto for the fine without a departure order - so far, so good.  One could still come down at any time, though.  Did they give you a document that says you can stay for the 60 days of the payment period?  The cartório may accept that.

We've had people post in the past about cartórios in Fortaleza being uncooperative with foreigners getting married.   Fortunately, it's a big city - fifth biggest  in the country  - and has several cartórios that perform marriages.   Changing cartórios may be the answer for that part of your problem, which will be the key to everything else.

He´s still on illegal status and upon payment, I´m afraid he would be ordered to leave. The 60-day stay is only for the time frame granted to pay the fine and nothing else for any other purpose. I´m sure the PF is aware of maneuvers like that.

abthree wrote:

CaraDeCharuto wrote:

I went to PF 2 days ago and didn't get departure order. I have a boleto to pay 10000 RS during next 60 days. And I have 10 days to appeal.

I'm not saying I can't pay a lawyer or the fine. What I'm saying I'm trying to spend less money and time. Hastle less too. And there is no need of my bribe's funds.

You were lucky to receive a boleto for the fine without a departure order - so far, so good.  One could still come down at any time, though.  Did they give you a document that says you can stay for the 60 days of the payment period?  The cartório may accept that.

We've had people post in the past about cartórios in Fortaleza being uncooperative with foreigners getting married.   Fortunately, it's a big city - fifth biggest  in the country  - and has several cartórios that perform marriages.   Changing cartórios may be the answer for that part of your problem, which will be the key to everything else.

That's interesting, thanks, will visit PF again. Cartório is ok with my situation, it's a small town here and we know everybody around. Cartorio is ready to marry us. The thing is it's mandatory now for a cartório to send papers to promotoria to evaluate every case of estrangeiros irregulares. The promotor here is young and very rigorous about existing laws and acts.
Even that there is a document for internal use from CENTRO DE APOIO OPERACIONAL DAS PROMOTORIAS DE JUSTIÇA saying that
"No entanto, é importante ressalvar que inexiste restrição legal à
celebração de casamento com estrangeiro cujo visto tenha expirado.
Não há no rol de impedimentos, tampouco nos requisitos legais de
habilitação para o casamento (arts. 1.521 e 1.525 do CC), exigência ao nubente
estrangeiro para que comprove a regularidade de sua estadia no país.
Acredita-se que o objetivo de evitar a realização de casamento ilegal
refere-se, na hipótese ora abordada, unicamente ao interesse de coibir a
realização de casamentos fraudulentos, isto é, forjados para facilitar a obtenção
de visto permanente pelo estrangeiro.
Ao sentir deste Centro de Apoio, parece inadequado impedir o
casamento de estrangeiros em situação irregular devido ao receio de fraude.
Compreende-se que tamanha limitação dos direitos fundamentais ao
casamento e ao planejamento familiar não deve ser amparada na presunção
de má-fé dos nubentes."

The promotor said we can appeal his decision in court.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou … N9SXQRNwpV

CaraDeCharuto wrote:

I went to PF 2 days ago and didn't get departure order. I have a boleto to pay 10000 RS during next 60 days. And I have 10 days to appeal.

I'm not saying I can't pay a lawyer or the fine. What I'm saying I'm trying to spend less money and time. Hastle less too. And there is no need of my bribe's funds.

Hiring a lawyer would require more money and time due to the bureaucratic hurdles. You cannot escape the fine and there´s no statute of limitations on it. As you stated, you have the money to pay 2
return tickets, your fine of R$10,000 and the misc. expenses. As long as you´re already engaged and your future wife trusts you can execute the proceedings with confidence, you should heed Texanbrasil´s original idea of getting married in Ukraine.

robal

robal wrote:

He´s still on illegal status and upon payment, I´m afraid he would be ordered to leave. The 60-day stay is only for the time frame granted to pay the fine and nothing else for any other purpose. I´m sure the PF is aware of maneuvers like that.

As I said, which is why I first recommend proceeding with legal representation:  that puts the situation on a different standing, and makes a summary dismissal less likely.  It's still worth checking other cartórios, especially given  the inconsistencies that others have reported in Fortaleza.  A legal marriage would also change the facts on the ground, giving his Brazilian wife a right to have him in-country.

CaraDeCharuto

Sorry, we're having Internet problems this weekend,  and I didn't see your most recent post until after I posted the above.  I wasn't aware that intervention of the Promotoria is now required.  Also, your profile says that you're in Fortaleza; if you're in a small town in the interior with a negative decision from the local Promotor, that probably limits your options to leaving the country and coming back married.

CaraDeCharuto wrote:

abthree wrote:

CaraDeCharuto wrote:

I went to PF 2 days ago and didn't get departure order. I have a boleto to pay 10000 RS during next 60 days. And I have 10 days to appeal.

I'm not saying I can't pay a lawyer or the fine. What I'm saying I'm trying to spend less money and time. Hastle less too. And there is no need of my bribe's funds.

You were lucky to receive a boleto for the fine without a departure order - so far, so good.  One could still come down at any time, though.  Did they give you a document that says you can stay for the 60 days of the payment period?  The cartório may accept that.

We've had people post in the past about cartórios in Fortaleza being uncooperative with foreigners getting married.   Fortunately, it's a big city - fifth biggest  in the country  - and has several cartórios that perform marriages.   Changing cartórios may be the answer for that part of your problem, which will be the key to everything else.

That's interesting, thanks, will visit PF again. Cartório is ok with my situation, it's a small town here and we know everybody around. Cartorio is ready to marry us. The thing is it's mandatory now for a cartório to send papers to promotoria to evaluate every case of estrangeiros irregulares. The promotor here is young and very rigorous about existing laws and acts.
Even that there is a document for internal use from CENTRO DE APOIO OPERACIONAL DAS PROMOTORIAS DE JUSTIÇA saying that
"No entanto, é importante ressalvar que inexiste restrição legal à
celebração de casamento com estrangeiro cujo visto tenha expirado.
Não há no rol de impedimentos, tampouco nos requisitos legais de
habilitação para o casamento (arts. 1.521 e 1.525 do CC), exigência ao nubente
estrangeiro para que comprove a regularidade de sua estadia no país.
Acredita-se que o objetivo de evitar a realização de casamento ilegal
refere-se, na hipótese ora abordada, unicamente ao interesse de coibir a
realização de casamentos fraudulentos, isto é, forjados para facilitar a obtenção
de visto permanente pelo estrangeiro.
Ao sentir deste Centro de Apoio, parece inadequado impedir o
casamento de estrangeiros em situação irregular devido ao receio de fraude.
Compreende-se que tamanha limitação dos direitos fundamentais ao
casamento e ao planejamento familiar não deve ser amparada na presunção
de má-fé dos nubentes."

The promotor said we can appeal his decision in court.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou … N9SXQRNwpV

Hiring a lawyer for the appeal needs a considerable amount of time and the PF gave you 60 days to pay
the fine in which I believe a departure order would be issued on your behalf following the payment...

It seems easier to go back and marry in Ukraine and liquidating the fine at the same time. That is of course if your health permits that.

CaraDeCharuto wrote:

abthree wrote:

CaraDeCharuto wrote:

I went to PF 2 days ago and didn't get departure order. I have a boleto to pay 10000 RS during next 60 days. And I have 10 days to appeal.

I'm not saying I can't pay a lawyer or the fine. What I'm saying I'm trying to spend less money and time. Hastle less too. And there is no need of my bribe's funds.

You were lucky to receive a boleto for the fine without a departure order - so far, so good.  One could still come down at any time, though.  Did they give you a document that says you can stay for the 60 days of the payment period?  The cartório may accept that.

We've had people post in the past about cartórios in Fortaleza being uncooperative with foreigners getting married.   Fortunately, it's a big city - fifth biggest  in the country  - and has several cartórios that perform marriages.   Changing cartórios may be the answer for that part of your problem, which will be the key to everything else.

That's interesting, thanks, will visit PF again. Cartório is ok with my situation, it's a small town here and we know everybody around. Cartorio is ready to marry us. The thing is it's mandatory now for a cartório to send papers to promotoria to evaluate every case of estrangeiros irregulares. The promotor here is young and very rigorous about existing laws and acts.
Even that there is a document for internal use from CENTRO DE APOIO OPERACIONAL DAS PROMOTORIAS DE JUSTIÇA saying that
"No entanto, é importante ressalvar que inexiste restrição legal à
celebração de casamento com estrangeiro cujo visto tenha expirado.
Não há no rol de impedimentos, tampouco nos requisitos legais de
habilitação para o casamento (arts. 1.521 e 1.525 do CC), exigência ao nubente
estrangeiro para que comprove a regularidade de sua estadia no país.
Acredita-se que o objetivo de evitar a realização de casamento ilegal
refere-se, na hipótese ora abordada, unicamente ao interesse de coibir a
realização de casamentos fraudulentos, isto é, forjados para facilitar a obtenção
de visto permanente pelo estrangeiro.
Ao sentir deste Centro de Apoio, parece inadequado impedir o
casamento de estrangeiros em situação irregular devido ao receio de fraude.
Compreende-se que tamanha limitação dos direitos fundamentais ao
casamento e ao planejamento familiar não deve ser amparada na presunção
de má-fé dos nubentes."

The promotor said we can appeal his decision in court.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou … N9SXQRNwpV

I would like to add that the Ministério de Justiça and the Federal Police works closely together as one
(PF being under the Ministry of Justice) and you having overstayed is now under further scrutiny. At the end of the day upon the appeal process, that promotoria will be referring to the Policia Federal for guidance and that would conclude the case especially if they suspect that the marriage is being performed for convenience. The Policia Federal has the final say on migration. Don´t waste your time and money.

robal

abthree wrote:

CaraDeCharuto

Sorry, we're having Internet problems this weekend,  and I didn't see your most recent post until after I posted the above.  I wasn't aware that intervention of the Promotoria is now required.  Also, your profile says that you're in Fortaleza; if you're in a small town in the interior with a negative decision from the local Promotor, that probably limits your options to leaving the country and coming back married.

Referral to the Promotoria before marriage by strangers has always been in practice since I came to reside in Brazil in 1994.

robal

hi just as a side note. they are starting to impose juros/multa on these as well so its not just the fine itself of 10 mil reais, i will attach what to expect.

on top of my 10 mil i had to pay an additional 3563 reais for a total of 13563.

If your true on this i would say pay it fast. else you will be hit with interest.

if you need to see, i can send a copy of it

Mikeflanagan wrote:

hi just as a side note. they are starting to impose juros/multa on these as well so its not just the fine itself of 10 mil reais, i will attach what to expect.

on top of my 10 mil i had to pay an additional 3563 reais for a total of 13563.

If your true on this i would say pay it fast. else you will be hit with interest.

Now that´s even harsher. Brazil´s favorite to enforce is juros out of thin air! Someday Brazil would tax the air you breathe. The bigger you are, the bigger would be the tax - Brazil´s concern to the environment as the Amazon burns up!

robal

Yeah when wife was going to pay the whole fine even the bank was like holy sh** que isso lol small price to pay for what i want for my family but worth it at the end of the day. Brazil does need help with people trying to skip town to Brazil without paying their way. Hurts the economy overall. Hopefully i can get back home before all the borders are closed

Well , there is also ‘stable union' here in the south (Florianopolis) . It's not marriage but for couples living together.
But in your situations you might have to pay the fine , leave the country and return to marry .

But to be safer ; I would consult a Lawyer. Good Luck

One suggestion - have a baby! ***

Also, another alternative is to try and shop around different cartórios. As we all know, they can all have different rules and you may find one of them will marry you, even if you have overstayed.

Good night! I highly think it has to do with which part of Brazil you are and the obvious reason for the marriage. Before i became a brazilian through naturalization. 6 years ago i got married on an expired overstayed visa.

I think it depends on who attened to you, the federal police was very nice to me she gave me tips on how i could've done everything being illegal at the moment. Bear in mind my over stay wasn't as much as yours. Mine was about a week or two; i hope you find a solution but i think they're denying the marriage because it's very obvious why you want to marry her now and not when you were yet legal.

               Best of luck! Keep us updated🤞🏿

liveinbrazil.net wrote:

One suggestion - have a baby!

in respects to this until the fine is paid. they have no requirement to process any of it because of the fine. it turns into a messy loop with a child invovled. which revolves around paying the overstay.

Mikeflanagan wrote:

liveinbrazil.net wrote:

One suggestion - have a baby!

in respects to this until the fine is paid. they have no requirement to process any of it because of the fine. it turns into a messy loop with a child invovled. which revolves around paying the overstay.

Time is running out and waiting for a baby is out! After paying the fine (originally stated as within 2mos), I´m sure he will be ordered to leave, and possibly be placed into black list and be barred from returning. The best solution is to go back together to Ukraine, marry there and come back together as a couple!

robal

liveinbrazil.net wrote:

Also, another alternative is to try and shop around different cartórios. As we all know, they can all have different rules and you may find one of them will marry you, even if you have overstayed.

He still have to pay the fine within the stipulated date but then for sure later ordered to leave Brazil EVEN if married! He can of course apply for a family reunion later in Ukraine through the Brazilian Embassy but first he has to leave because his time in Brazil expired a long time ago. Now, it does complicate matters if he´s on the blacklist. In other counties you have to hire a registered lawyer of that country to lift the blacklist. I don´t see how it would be different here! He should just go home with her and marry there. That SIMPLE.

robal