Strange this when salvaging

SimCityAT wrote:

Has anyone seen this.......

[img align=C]https://scontent.fvie1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/98179836_10158087525182279_2099622697116893184_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQlerm4dQAVrCbr_15OrFdFX9NRdKMC6e2IG0KcYEv_vu1zL4_6nT4oWLvMUlhOayNc&_nc_ht=scontent.fvie1-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=797640d74fe4f468fc4f3ec252f35eeb&oe=5EED25A7[/url]

Sorry not a closeup, but they have used what it looks like Laver rock as a form of insulation, well that's my guess.

I think because of the location and the use, it looks like Perlite.   

They use it for insulation and for hydroponics.  Hungary has large reserves. I've used it myself as insulation around odd shaped places that needed it.   They might have put it there as fire protection too as it's basically a form of rock.  Rockwool is used for the same purpose like say, chimney insulation.

Going back on Saturday and Sunday will take a picture close up. The hose is being knocked down so taking the wooed for free.

House must be 50 years old, nowt wrong with it. But they are knocking it down next week, so we can have all for free.

SimCityAT wrote:

Going back on Saturday and Sunday will take a picture close up. The hose is being knocked down so taking the wooed for free.

House must be 50 years old, nowt wrong with it. But they are knocking it down next week, so we can have all for free.

The wood is worth something and maybe the radiator.   The Perlite is cheap as chips - not worth anything.   

Our house was full of old rubbish.  We have a rather yucky brown wood burning stove in pieces outside.  Cannot give it away. It'll have to go in the skip.  We had some interesting retro lampshades that could have made a fun revamped design.  But I broke one of the glass bulbs so that's going in the trash too.   

I saved all my metal fence posts and I've used them all up making stuff like gates, brackets, work bench, dog house wheeled base, wheeled chicken house.  I've told Mrs Fluffy I'll have to start buying some new metal at this rate.   Saves a fortune recycling.

Under the floor boards in our house was just dirt.

Also the ceiling boards also had a layer of dirt over them in the "attic" space.

Dirt: A natural, on site available, poor man's "insulation". The house is over 100 years old.

klsallee wrote:

Under the floor boards in our house was just dirt.

Also the ceiling boards also had a layer of dirt over them in the "attic" space.

Dirt: A natural, on site available, poor man's "insulation". The house is over 100 years old.

We had the same in our Austrian house which was built in 1908.  I think it was actually for fire protection.  Must have weighed an awful lot.  That's why it's probably better to just knock these kinds of houses down and rebuild with modern materials.

But in the case of the house shown, it'll be Perlite.  It's quite popular in Austria.  I had it as a flooring layer in my cellar there which was stupid as it attracts water.

fluffy2560 wrote:

That's why it's probably better to just knock these kinds of houses down and rebuild with modern materials..

Well... actually... it depends.

Our house is made of stone. 60 cm thick walls. A great mass heater there (thermal mass is the "other way" to deal with cooling and heating). No cooling system needed in the summer. Walls retain heat all winter (takes about a month of "charging").  Ergo, our total "heating/cooling bill" is only about 500 Euro a year (total - which works out to about 1 Euro per cubic meter in the house per year). That is about 40 Euro a month (or about 10 cents (rounded up) per month per cubic meter). I give these numbers for comparison for those with different volumes in their homes. I think that is pretty efficient. For a 100 year old house**. 

So don't be too quick to dismiss old buildings or building styles. 

** Yes, I did add insulation... to the floors, the ceiling, new windows, etc. But I did not need to tear down the house to do that.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

That's why it's probably better to just knock these kinds of houses down and rebuild with modern materials..

Well... actually... it depends.

Our house is made of stone. 60 cm thick walls. A great mass heater there (thermal mass is the "other way" to deal with cooling and heating). No cooling system needed in the summer. Walls retain heat all winter (takes about a month of "charging").  Ergo, our total "heating/cooling bill" is only about 500 Euro a year (total - which works out to about 1 Euro per cubic meter in the house per year). That is about 40 Euro a month (or about 10 cents (rounded up) per month per cubic meter). I give these numbers for comparison for those with different volumes in their homes. I think that is pretty efficient. For a 100 year old house**. 

So don't be too quick to dismiss old buildings or building styles. 

** Yes, I did add insulation... to the floors, the ceiling, new windows, etc. But I did not need to tear down the house to do that.

Maybe your house is different but I think you will agree that a lot of older houses (even from "modern times") here are just built from rubbish materials and shoddy workmanship.   But as always you pays your money and takes your choice.

You only have to look down a village street here to see damp rising up walls leaving a salt band, bad/wonky brickwork, terrible roofs and bad carpentry, ill fitting doors and windows with gaps you can put your fingers in etc.    All of these things are going to increase your running costs each and every year.  Offset that against the capital costs of modern installations and it's a no brainer.  The return period has to be less than 7 to 10 years.   

There's no romance in doing up and old property really and labouring over it to look authentic unless it's going to be truly special.   People here only really build once in their life time - exceptionally perhaps twice.

My own walls are perhaps 60cm thick BUT 15cm of that is insulation (it's the EU minimum now).  The brick work is insulating air brick with thermal boards on the inside of the house plastered over.   Everything is heavily insulated.  We have triple glazing.   We also have  wood burning stoves (mainly for emergencies),  gas central heating and an air based heat pump system (also does cooling)!  Out of all of these, I think the air based heat pump is the most economical and gives near instant heat.   There are 4 of us (5 if the dog is included). 

We've decided already that if we get another house sometime, we'd use heat pumps rather than gas and we'd work with solar power and solar heated water to offset any other utility costs (heat pumps in Hungary have a different electricity rate to normal electricity).

fluffy2560 wrote:

Maybe your house is different but I think you will agree that a lot of older houses (even from "modern times") here are just built from rubbish materials and shoddy workmanship.   But as always you pays your money and takes your choice.

I do not know how "different" our house is, but I hired an architect with a degree in static engineering to review the house before we bought. So I did not jump into this blind.

But of course I did construction and renovation in a prior life before I moved to Europe, so I also know what to look for and how things work. Including alternative construction options, like Earthships.

For example, our house had creeping damp. But I knew how to deal with it. And dealt with it. We no longer have creeping damp. One does not need to tear down a house to solve problems. There are many alternate solutions. Which are actually much cheaper.... Depending on the house (yes, some are indeed better torn down--- but only as a last resort after getting all the facts, not just out of a whim assuming newer is better).

fluffy2560 wrote:

You only have to look down a village street here to see damp rising up walls leaving a salt band, bad/wonky brickwork, terrible roofs and bad carpentry, ill fitting doors and windows with gaps you can put your fingers in etc.    All of these things are going to increase your running costs each and every year.  Offset that against the capital costs of modern installations and it's a no brainer.

There is a lot of new construction going here  over the past year. When walking the dog, took photos. All the above applies to the new construction. Lovely photos of creeping damp and salt bands up new walls even before the plaster was applied, for exampe (which will hide the problem or sale... for a while). Among many, many other problems I saw. Don't think modern construction here will prevent any of the above. In fact, I suspect it may be worse than some old construction.  Modern construction is not necessarily the same as "modern" construction in Hungary... As you should know... Water does not run uphill, except in Hungary.....

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Maybe your house is different but I think you will agree that a lot of older houses (even from "modern times") here are just built from rubbish materials and shoddy workmanship.   But as always you pays your money and takes your choice.

I do not know how "different" our house is, but I hired an architect with a degree in static engineering to review the house before we bought. So I did not jump into this blind.

We did the same and have a nice fat report about the house.  However, it's limited.  The builder reported that once he'd started uncovering the construction underneath, he found the beams were laid incorrectly in the floor.  He said he'd get around it.   Now we have a huge giant steel lintel hidden in the wall.   He also discovered the plans showed insufficient support for the roof so we have concrete beams as well holding up our "very heavy roof".   Even I as an interested amateur can see it needed extra beams.  Oh well.

klsallee wrote:

But of course I did construction and renovation in a prior life before I moved to Europe, so I also know what to look for and how things work. Including alternative construction options, like Earthships.

I was thinking of making a hay bale house or possibly rammed earth house.  Probably too old to do the rammed earth one now but the hay bale one might work quite well hereabouts.

klsallee wrote:

For example, our house had creeping damp. But I knew how to deal with it. And dealt with it. We no longer have creeping damp. One does not need to tear down a house to solve problems. There are many alternate solutions. Which are actually much cheaper.... Depending on the house (yes, some are indeed better torn down--- but only as a last resort after getting all the facts, not just out of a whim assuming newer is better).

I was aiming my comments at the romantics who think cheap house means good value.  We've been through the "Money Pit" thing before.  So many "nice looking" places but basically cobbled together with any old rubbish they could find.

But please share what you did about the damp!   Our house is essentially new so I don't need to do it myself but I am wondering how they tackle this here.  Obvious thing is injecting damp proofing materials but that could cause other problems. I've looked intently at several houses here and the majority are houses with a 1m base - my house included - so rising damp is less of or not a problem.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

You only have to look down a village street here to see damp rising up walls leaving a salt band, bad/wonky brickwork, terrible roofs and bad carpentry, ill fitting doors and windows with gaps you can put your fingers in etc.    All of these things are going to increase your running costs each and every year.  Offset that against the capital costs of modern installations and it's a no brainer.

There is a lot of new construction going here  over the past year. When walking the dog, took photos. All the above applies to the new construction. Lovely photos of creeping damp and salt bands up new walls even before the plaster was applied, for example (which will hide the problem or sale... for a while). Among many, many other problems I saw. Don't think modern construction here will prevent any of the above. In fact, I suspect it may be worse than some old construction.  Modern construction is not necessarily the same as "modern" construction in Hungary... As you should know... Water does not run uphill, except in Hungary.....

I think the standards are generally higher now though and there is more professionalism but as always more vigilance is needed.  When I first came in the 1990s there were lots of houses being built to "modern standards" - away from those 1970s self-builds and the panel flats.  However, it was the Wild East and the bodging was endemic - leaving out one of the bags of cement on the rendering and therefore it's more sand the concrete.  Not understanding the use of lime plaster - I've asked builders here about it and they don't know.   The EU has forced a general upping of standards - houses here are more or less built with German standard materials which is all fine.  And in theory, work has to be inspected.   Perhaps the days of the dodgy home builders are over as people should have more disposable income to get builders to do things for them.

Yes, it's true, water does run uphill here - usually it's balconies (no drip channel) and drainpipes.   We took the dog out for a walk earlier and sure enough, I was looking at someone's drain pipes and clearly there was an incorrect incline.  The water would flow back towards the house from the gully outside in the street. I really don't know what people are thinking.  So strange - maybe they were off school that day when they covered water in tubes.   

But it's all part of the territory/HU experience -  the reversed names, the strange timing system for cinema showings (now that seems defunct). 

I swear clocks go backwards here too.

Better picture......

100% Perlite.

fluffy2560 wrote:

And in theory, work has to be inspected.

According to my understanding, from various sources where I live, new construction only now needs to be inspected after it is all completed. No in process inspections required any more. Not sure how inspectors see into finished walls....

That is the rules may vary. Budapest city rules may not apply elsewhere.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

And in theory, work has to be inspected.

According to my understanding, from various sources where I live, new construction only now needs to be inspected after it is all completed. No in process inspections required any more. Not sure how inspectors see into finished walls....

That is the rules may vary. Budapest city rules may not apply elsewhere.

My house is only about 500m from the Budapest border. 

You could be right. 

We also didn't have inspections during building but we thought they were being inefficient.  The rules changed apparently while we building.   In the end we just sent about 20 photos by e-mail.  We thought it was just here they were cutting corners.

They should know what's being used in the building construction as they approve the plans (permit comes in the post) but of course plans and reality are often different. 

We have access windows in the roof which are not on the plans, the stairs are different and one of our doors is in a different position.  Doesn't really matter though - not material enough to be investigated.