Perception of Hungary. Living, property, healthcare and finances

Property

I have seen quite some posts on the topic, here I take an economic view.
With Corona I have no doubt that almost all markets will go down, no matter if it is the US, Hungary, Spain, The Netherlands, Turkey, ... the question is how much.
I think what happens in Spain can also happen in Hungary (ie people escaping Madrid and buying people in the countryside), this will mitigate the negative impact a bit. (for owners good, not for the people who rent or want to escape from the big cities).
On top of that, there will be quite some un-employment in Europe, part of them will be Hungarians who will have saved over the years and might see this as an opportunity to return (positive impact for the property market (what I mean is limiting the downfall).
Getting older as a couple, we personally look at opportunities in other locations (ie doing the opposite, moving to an appartement or even other country)

CONCLUSION
On a relative basis, better to have a rural property in Hungary then a city dwelling in Madrid

Healthcare

Many complaints in general on Healthcare in Hungary, I do not always agree, actually I am quite happy (and frustrated with history, but there is not always a choice). For example I lived in Luxembourg for quite some years and I had to pay absolute massive amounts for healthcare (I got virtually nothing in return (teeth, eyesight only covered for around 10%, only some cyste operations (I had to return because not properly executed) were fully covered.
Yes in Hungary you are expected to pay you general practioner something extra (and as far as I am concerned also his secretary), but even if very old he was the one determining another big problem (not in Luxembourg), admittedly it might be easier to determine at old age, but still I am happy.
Also I had a Cataract operation under the normal healthcare scheme (not private), of course a small contribution here and there, but results were excellent and if comparing with private hospitals massively cheaper,
As for dentists, I think bad luck, you have to pay, but service is excellent in Hungary. (My bad luck I have to go often )

Finance

What I actually mean is taxes, both local and government.
Nobody likes to pay, but I am actually very happy, both private and for my company (for the latter I did not have many assignments over the last few years, but still I am very happy on the set up (easy, straightforward and accommodating). I will keep the company open for a few more years (is not costing too much and who knows..)

As for the private side, fine, low level, property taxes are very very low, no significant mark-ups on Electricity, Water and Gas, if comparing with the UK, Luxembourg or the Netherlands massive, massive savings. (If you try to compare eg a house of 100 m2 with a plot of 2000m2)
Income taxes are very fine and very straight forward.

For pensioners situation currently is even better, HOWEVER with Corona going on I am VERY afraid that somehow shortfalls have to be retrieved and pensioners/property owners could very well become a victim.

Also I tend to keep my cash assets in EURO, inflation is more or less embedded in Hungarian structure and you pay for that if having HUF cash assets. (you pay twice (tax on your HUF savings account and loss through inflation), so I try to limit my HUF balances as much as possible.
Nevertheless I am afraid, I do not believe in stockmarkets (overvalued), I do not believe in EURO, and even less in HUF. I do not have a good advice even for myself (the only thing I consider are inflation linkers (but deflation might also be a risk)

Hello cdw057 and thank you for creating this very useful topic !

Regards

Loïc
Expat.com Team

cdw057 wrote:

Finance
.....

Also I tend to keep my cash assets in EURO, inflation is more or less embedded in Hungarian structure and you pay for that if having HUF cash assets. (you pay twice (tax on your HUF savings account and loss through inflation), so I try to limit my HUF balances as much as possible.
Nevertheless I am afraid, I do not believe in stockmarkets (overvalued), I do not believe in EURO, and even less in HUF. I do not have a good advice even for myself (the only thing I consider are inflation linkers (but deflation might also be a risk)

Certainly keeping less assets in HUF and EUR is not a bad idea.   My current thinking is that it's better to increase diversification of asset holdings to outside HU.   

If things go really wrong here economically (like with EU actions on the HU government) then Orban could bring in currency controls to stop capital flight.  It would be an extreme measure for that to happen but the world is an upside down place at the moment.  OV is already trying to stop foreign investors controlling financial assets.

BTW, a lot of the banks in HU are exposed and it will get worse.  I think the sector will begin to consolidate.  I'm already reading MKB, MTB and BB banks will merge.

"............BUDAPEST, May 26 (Reuters) - Hungary’s state-owned Budapest Bank will join a strategic alliance of MKB Bank and savings group Takarekbank (MTB), forming the country’s second-largest banking group, the banks said in a joint statement on Tuesday.

The banks are “examining and preparing the framework for setting up a new, locally-owned banking group with significant market power”, they said, adding that the three lenders have combined assets of 5.8 trillion forints ($18.3 billion).

MKB and MTB announced merger talks earlier in May, to create the country’s second-largest bank and opening a new chapter in the shake-up of a banking system that has seen local players gain influence under Prime Minister Viktor Orban.

Orban has worked to reduce to under 50% the holdings of foreign investors in sectors including telecommunications, finance and energy.

The Prime Minister’s associate Lorinc Meszaros owns a 48.6% stake in MKB, according to an August 2018 filing.

Budapest Bank has a significant household and small business lending portfolio that fits the corporate and private banking clients of MKB and the savings bank clients of MTB, the lenders said.

The three banks will set up a joint holding company, Magyar Bankholding, led by MTB Chairman Jozsef Vida. MKB CEO Adam Balog, a former central banker, and Budapest Bank CEO Koppany Lelfai would sit on the board.

Hungary’s market leader is OTP Bank, central Europe’s largest independent lender, which is present in a dozen countries and had total assets of 21.9 trillion forints at the end of the first quarter.

OTP’s core Hungarian subsidiary alone is nearly twice the size of the post-merger trio with total assets of 10.5 trillion forints.

MKB enters the merger after a recently concluded European Union restructuring process. The government for years has sought a buyer for Budapest Bank, which it bought from General Electric for $700 million in 2015. ($1 = 317.2500 forints)"

Source: Reuters

cdw057 wrote:

Hungarians in my view are welcoming, friendly and supporting. The " foreigners" are in general also very friendly and have loving personalities.

So, in short everyone is friendly.

Been to over 20 countries (mostly for work), basically I find people the same everywhere. I don't think I have ever met an unfriendly person on my travels*. Oh, sure.... the Swiss can be a bit.... distant... but one should not confuse that with being unfriendly. Some cultures just take longer to "warm up" to others.

*Living someone long enough is different--- then one can certainly come across unfriendly people, even in Hungary. 

klsallee wrote:

cdw057 wrote:

Hungarians in my view are welcoming, friendly and supporting. The " foreigners" are in general also very friendly and have loving personalities.

So, in short everyone is friendly.

Been to over 20 countries (mostly for work), basically I find people the same everywhere. I don't think I have ever met an unfriendly person on my travels*. Oh, sure.... the Swiss can be a bit.... distant... but one should not confuse that with being unfriendly. Some cultures just take longer to "warm up" to others.

*Living someone long enough is different--- then one can certainly come across unfriendly people, even in Hungary. 

I tend to agree. 

But I do think the number of a**holes, sorry I mean unfriendly people,  per km2 has been increasing over time too, not necessarily  just based on  frequency of chance encounters. 

It might be context and interpretation - if the person is in a car, economics and the economy, politics, social deprivation,  perhaps colour or nationality - which increases the chances of unhappy contact.  If a person introduces themselves and smiles, then the situation would no doubt change.

I suppose smiling is universal as is the right attitude.

Sorry, no more smiling allowed, as long as we are wearing masks that is...
Wow,just hit a brick wall on what to write about Hungary.
I think I've said it all over the past few years on this site.
Yes, some people are great here just like anywhere else and some are just jerks.
I tend to usually tell people off on the spot and then move on so there's that.
I used to think all Hungarian men were raised to be gents, wrong, not true at all... Most of my negative encounters have been with men here in Hungary. Not sure why, I am easy to get along with unless one acts like an idiot, guess I've been in situations here where I cross the same path as an idiot or two.
Money wise, it's all good here for now.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Sorry, no more smiling allowed, as long as we are wearing masks that is...
Wow,just hit a brick wall on what to write about Hungary.
I think I've said it all over the past few years on this site.
Yes, some people are great here just like anywhere else and some are just jerks.
I tend to usually tell people off on the spot and then move on so there's that.
I used to think all Hungarian men were raised to be gents, wrong, not true at all... Most of my negative encounters have been with men here in Hungary. Not sure why, I am easy to get along with unless one acts like an idiot, guess I've been in situations here where I cross the same path as an idiot or two.
Money wise, it's all good here for now.

Rain stopped play again. I was outside working and it's raining again.  Had to put all my tools away. So much for weather forecasts.  Came inside and looking on expat.com until it stops.

Good point on the masks. We'll just have to start practising our express eye movements so that we look like we're all smiling.  For some reason, I keep thinking of Roger Moore.

Hungarian aren't all gents as you say but I begin to think there's a funny relationship between a lot of mothers and their male offspring here in HU. I actually think they don't bring them up to have respect for others but somehow - even without trying - end up making them into chauvinists.  I think possibly something to do with not being able to grow up properly and having confidence to be themselves without having to run someone else down.  Controlling behaviour even.

Even worse, combine that with some over the top religious views and then you have one path to misogynist behavioural deviance. 

I have to fight a bit here to stop my kids going the same way - usually pressure from outside over religious nonsense. For example, pictures of saints on walls and crosses up in schools. I don't want them burdened by any religious baggage/guilt and making sure they can stand their ground as confident people.

I suggested - jokingly - to my youngest daughter she might end up needing a prince  and she said she was an independent person and didn't need a prince to validate herself.

Yay! Great answer. Job done!  She'll be fine!

Like many other cultures Hungarian mother's do tend to spoil the heck out of their children.
I can't relate as my mom was tough as nails and forced us to chip in around the house with cleaning and yard work, no allowa money for it either.
Older children had to baby-sit the younger ones without any double talk or comments.
Of course mom riased 4 children alone for years so she had to lay down the  law hard or things could of gotten out of control fast.
She worked nights and wasn't about to have parties and such while she was slaving away. Rules and more rules.
Later she wondered why all of us chose to move out on our own as soon as we turned 18, in my case 17.
My HU MIL used to work those long 10 hour shifts then go shop to shop to get food items, come home and before resting her feet would ask her 3 children what they wanted for dinner. She even made 3 different dinner if they didn't agree on one meal!
Like to see us play that game with my mother! You'd be lucky if you got bread and water for the next 2weeks.
My mother even spanked the neighbor's children if they need to be corrected on the spot. My HU husband Never was given even a slap for bad behavior, spoiled to death.
When our son was small my husband wouldn't allow me to spank him at all. He said women should never hit a male child, would make them resent women.
OK, not sure about that since my HU former( thank God) DIL broke her own hand slapping my son's head over a slice of cheese....

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Like many other cultures Hungarian mother's do tend to spoil the heck out of their children.
I can't relate as my mom was tough as nails and forced us to chip in around the house with cleaning and yard work, no allowa money for it either.
Older children had to baby-sit the younger ones without any double talk or comments.
Of course mom riased 4 children alone for years so she had to lay down the  law hard or things could of gotten out of control fast.
She worked nights and wasn't about to have parties and such while she was slaving away. Rules and more rules.
Later she wondered why all of us chose to move out on our own as soon as we turned 18, in my case 17.
My HU MIL used to work those long 10 hour shifts then go shop to shop to get food items, come home and before resting her feet would ask her 3 children what they wanted for dinner. She even made 3 different dinner if they didn't agree on one meal!
Like to see us play that game with my mother! You'd be lucky if you got bread and water for the next 2weeks.
My mother even spanked the neighbor's children if they need to be corrected on the spot. My HU husband Never was given even a slap for bad behavior, spoiled to death.
When our son was small my husband wouldn't allow me to spank him at all. He said women should never hit a male child, would make them resent women.
OK, not sure about that since my HU former( thank God) DIL broke her own hand slapping my son's head over a slice of cheese....

I guess every parent has a formula for sorting out their kids.  I have to complain to the kids to get on with stuff but it's not like they are really wayward.  It's usually really silly stuff like not turning off the lights, cleaning up their dishes, putting stuff away etc.  It's like developing bad habits.

I am not convinced any kind of physical punishment works with any kid.  I've always thought resorting to violence or losing ones cool meant losing the argument.   Not to say some kids really do push their limits.   

What they fear most is not having the love and support of a parent and they don't like uncertainty. 

Babies need to know they are going to get cuddled, kept warm and clean, fed, entertained and sense of belonging.  Makes them confident and feel safe.  Same really for anyone at any age!  They like to please really.  We try and bring them to round to the correct way of thinking by shaming them into doing stuff and pleading with them not to make work for poor old Mum and Dad.    That's really what I have to complain about - making unnecessary work for us.   

But what is quite interesting is that my kids have actually asked how do they clear up.  Might seems obvious to adults but one of my kids said she didn't know how to fold clothes neatly so we had to show her how!   So the seed was there. Need to be thankful for such small steps.

But I think you hit the nail on the head - HU mothers tend to turn their kids into spoilt adults.  We've seen all this in action just about every day.  Bit strange they don't do it to their daughters. I think they are (or were) brought up to serve.  Really old fashioned thinking.

When thinking about my childhood (my mom became a widow when I was 12 (I had 2 younger brothers and one sister). I recall times before and after, we had to eat what we got (even if we hated).
My brothers and me (my sister was exempted) had to deliver newspapers in the morning for our pocket money (which at the time I think was more than sufficient).

I think I had a good youth, but all of the children did take a very contradictory way of life (on one side (senior and not only in age) police, also one in financial industry (perhaps comparable (the contradictory one)) and one a very loyal truck driver, The sister being a reluctant housewife, but in the meantime after 30 (!) years settled in fine.
Considering circumstances all went more then fine (RESPECT for my family (not only mom, but also brothers and sister)

Life is not honest (at all), as you will have guessed I was the financial one (although I left the industry with a bit of thoughts (carefully phrased)) at 52. I have benefited but I still feel guilty.

A very open post, apologies for that, but the main messages
1. GRASS IS NOT GREENER AT THE OTHER SIDE
2. EVEN IF WE COMPLAIN, THERE IS MUCH TO BE HAPPY ABOUT

cdw057 wrote:

When thinking about my childhood (my mom became a widow when I was 12 (I had 2 younger brothers and one sister). I recall times before and after, we had to eat what we got (even if we hated).
My brothers and me (my sister was exempted) had to deliver newspapers in the morning for our pocket money (which at the time I think was more than sufficient).

I think I had a good youth, but all of the children did take a very contradictory way of life (on one side (senior and not only in age) police, also one in financial industry (perhaps comparable (the contradictory one)) and one a very loyal truck driver, The sister being a reluctant housewife, but in the meantime after 30 (!) years settled in fine.
Considering circumstances all went more then fine (RESPECT for my family (not only mom, but also brothers and sister)

Life is not honest (at all), as you will have guessed I was the financial one (although I left the industry with a bit of thoughts (carefully phrased)) at 52. I have benefited but I still feel guilty.

A very open post, apologies for that, but the main messages
1. GRASS IS NOT GREENER AT THE OTHER SIDE
2. EVEN IF WE COMPLAIN, THERE IS MUCH TO BE HAPPY ABOUT

Don't think you have anything to apologise for.   It's just the way the cookie crumbled. 

Why should you feel guilty?  I am sure your Mom found plenty to be proud of and I expect your siblings do too.     

No-one knows how any of it will work out but balanced individual with positive outlook and social integration is the best really anyone can hope for regardless of how they find interest and happiness in truck driving, housewifery or law and order. 

Incidentally, probably the toughest job is being a housewife and Mom - it's 24x7x365 without really a break until they reach adulthood.  All done willingly even if it means pain.  John Cleese (yes, him!) I heard say on the radio once "Sacrifice is Love".   Cannot really find fault that thought.

cdw057 wrote:

GRASS IS NOT GREENER AT THE OTHER SIDE

This, as written, is presented as a universal "truth". And as such I do not agree.

Simply because one has tried to find greener places at the "other sided" and failed does not make such a statement universally true for everyone. I, for example, have moved more than once to an "other side" and have often found greener pastures. Both spatially and mentally. It is simply a mater of relative perspective.

A better, relative and realistic based comment would have been: "The grass is not always greener at the other side". Hope this helps.

P.S. Please avoid cap locks (as suggested in the forum code of conduct).

Agreed, grass is not always greener, I should have been more careful

My mom definitely had a VERY very tough life and so did my grandmama's , for whatever reason males seem to die too early in my family (my father 39, one grandfather 49, the other one 58). Grandmothers also do not live excessively long (64 and 74) although my mother thankfully still lives (80+).

Of course not easy to pinpoint any reason (stress is often referred too in general, but if stress were to be the reason I would say it was the women in my family (and they outlived their husbands by far).

Anyhow my respect to mothers in general (and my mom and grandmothers specifically).
Perhaps women are just stronger then men.

By the way although a very nice sub thread to address and I have to say a very good topic to actually be mentioned from time to time,  I feel it is going a bit of the original topic.

cdw057 wrote:

By the way although a very nice sub thread to address and I have to say a very good topic to actually be mentioned from time to time,  I feel it is going a bit of the original topic.

Yes, it is going awry but easy to solve by going to Absolutely Anything Else.

Over there, it's a free for all (but still moderated) with any amount of randomness encouraged. 

If there was a rule, and there isn't,  perhaps it should be that it should be interesting in some way.   Or humorous.

cdw057 wrote:

By the way although a very nice sub thread to address and I have to say a very good topic to actually be mentioned from time to time,  I feel it is going a bit of the original topic.

Maybe a bit off topic, I have no problem if my posts are moved to another topic, I am a computer,"spaz" and don't know how to move posts around.
I never knew either of my grandmothers, they both passed decades before I was even thought about.
One grandfather was nearly 80 when I was born so although he was sweet I couldn't even sit in his lap longer then 5 mins.
The other for some reason hardly spoke English even though he was born in the US. Lived for ages in eastern Europe as a teenager and married in Poland to another Ruysn. He was BIG on staying within the Ruysn culture. I read translated letters he wrote to his aunt and the vain of his life was that his 9 children married outside of the culture.
I was surprised to find out about 7 years ago that we had many "mixed" marriages over the last 300 years with Ruysn and Hungarians on my father's side.
Of course my mother always said they married cousins and not always "kissing " cousins. Not sure that was true or not but she always said that was why the Ruysn side of the family had short tempers.
Not true, my father never spank any of us children. I got one smack on the bottom one time when I was 7 from my father and I never forgot it.
Sometimes words and looks hurt more then a smack on the bottom does.
It is sad to lost your mother, your best friend on earth as a child, or any time really.
My friend in Ca. was 7 years my senior, my eldest sister's age, she made her 2 boys wash dishes, do their own laundry and make their beds. I used to think she was hard on them but she was not in great health and wanted them to learn to do for themselves.
Looking back now, she was ahead of the game and only forcing them out of pure love.
Think her boys were 14 and 16 when she passed.
Well, it was a nice if windy day here in Budapest , Vegas casino's have reopened today and we can only hope the fires and riots in the US stop soon.

cdw057 wrote:

Agreed, grass is not always greener, I should have been more careful

I've been developing a hobby by collecting exotic grasses for my future landscaped garden.  Some of my specimens are different colours - I've got a red one, a white stripey one and I'm working towards finding a blue one.  So I agree, grass is not always greener. It's more interesting, it could be red or blue or stripey as well.