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Moving money from the US that already been taxed

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NewBrazil

My question is if you move money here to Brazil. The taxes on the money has already been paid in the US. So does Brazil recognize this and will they tax this money again. I talking about over 100,000 in Reals value to my wife account. Also how much documentation will Brazil ask for if someone already move a large amount. Is the best way is when you are buying property or cars. Thanks

Texanbrazil

If for property or a car, I recommend sending it to the seller directly. (Property an agent or lawyer). It did both.
I sent it to the car dealership direct and to the agent/lawyer. You do owe taxes but on the property, the amount is included. Same as for the car. Price includes taxes etc. Documents are taken care of by sellers.
I do not recommend sending over $10,000, U$D to an individual.
I can say from experience.
1, Your bank (hopefully) will have the fraud dept will contact you.
2. The account/bank must know in advance anything over $5,000 U$D that it will happen. That bank should clear the same with Fed Bank.
All will need your CPF and the recipient bank may ask for tax forms from last year of currant,
If you place a CPF for a Brazilian, s/he will be taxed.

abthree

I agree with Tex.  You can speed things up by being proactive, though.

When we bought our apartment, I had quite a bit more than that transferred directly to my account at Banco do Brasil.  It went very smoothly:

1. I had a CPF and my own bank account.
2. I confirmed with my accountant beforehand that I wouldn't owe any income tax, because it was my own money, not income. 
3. I sat down with the Branch Manager the week before we passed papers to let him know exactly how much was going to be transferred, when, and for what reason, to ensure that all the proper authorities would be notified in advance.  This, I think, was crucial.

On the morning of the transfer, the seller and my spouse and I went to Banco do Brasil.  The manager confirmed that the funds were available, took the seller's bank information and transferred the funds to her -- they were in my account less than an hour.  Then she and we went to the cartório and completed the purchase.

The following April, I saw that my accountant reflected the transfer in my Brazilian tax return, then backed it out again, so there was no tax impact, but my return matched the transactions in my bank account.

chistletoe

Abthree,

I`m slowly digging in in a small city (Bom Jesus da Lapa) and a big town (Piata) both a full days drive away from the nearest city (Salvador).
I may have already crossed the line into what Brazil would label as a common law marriage but the USA won`t see it that way.
Im working on supporting her and on buying a ranch out in the mountains (less than US $100,000).
The young inexperienced bank manager at Banco do Brasil held my first wire for over 6 weeks before releasing it to Maria (US $6,000).  He still won`t open an account for me until I get an RNM and even the nearest place to apply is 400 km away from here.
I realize I need some professional assistance to help me with all the boundaries, double taxation avoidance  and passive investments, active investments, and getting money across the border, and is there any way I can  marry Maria to be accepted by US tax and estate law but never let her come to the US?   But I don't know how to find a lawyer or an accountant around here and no one I am dealing with would know either.
Im working on learning Portuguese but its a struggle for me, at my age I`Ive probably forgotten half the English words |I once knew.

NewBrazil

Thanks for your help. I have a CPF but no bank account. My wife is Brazilian and we use her account. I did buy a new car here in her name. Did transfer a wire to the car deal account. It got caught up since I missed all the wire instructions but made it to the car company account. But they wouldn’t release it were asking fir documents where the money came from. It was from the sale of my house in the US. But all those documents were back in the US. So we’re took the wire back and used a friend to pay the amount and later paid them back. Not with a wire. I making money through my consulting business but it again in the US. Any suggestions

abthree

chistletoe,

Wow -- you've jumped in with both feet!   Sounds like you're ready for the challenges:  the next year or so will be tough, but after it all you'll have some great stories to tell, and you'll really know the Northeast, which is probably my favorite part of Brazil, having lived almost three years northeast of you in Sergipe.   Let's get into your questions.

Yes, if you marry under Brazilian law (whether in the cartório or a religious marriage with civil effect), it should be recognized in the US.  Marriage in the US is a state, not a Federal matter, so I would recommend contacting the responsible authority in the last state where you lived, or even better where you still have a home if you have one, to find out how to register your Brazilian marriage if you want to be doubly sure.  In many states, that will be the County Clerk.

Unfortunately, you'll have to file your US taxes as "Married, filing Separately", unless you can get your wife an ITIN, an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, which you can only do in the US.  If you have a lawyer or tax preparer in the US, maybe that person can help you.

The full-service US Consulate General responsible for your region of Brazil is in Rio de Janeiro.  There is no US Consulate in Salvador, but there is a Consular Agency ( we have the same situation here in Manaus).  The Consular Agency only provides services to US citizens, not consular services to Brazilians.  They may be able to advise you on how Brazilian and US law interact in the areas that concern you.  Here's their contact information:

https://br.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-se … formation/

You won't be able to open a bank account until you have a CRNM.   It looks like the Federal Police office that you need to contact about it is in Barreiras -- see page 9 of this document:

http://www.pf.gov.br/servicos-pf/imigra … de2013.pdf

Although it's difficult, it's essential to get your CRNM if you want to live in Brazil.  You'll also need to get a CPF, but you should be able to get that at the Receita Federal in Bom Jesus da Lapa.  Until you have those, your only convenient source of cash will be your US debit card, preferably at the ATMs at the Banco do Brasil and other banks.  Try to avoid ATMs in places like stores, since they're easier for thieves to scam than the ones in bank lobbies.

I don't know anything about buying rural property, so I won't guess and risk misleading you.  I hope that someone with experience in the area will chime in.

For professionals, if you don't know anyone else yet, but you and/or Maria belong to a church, I'd ask your priest or pastor whether they know anyone.  Otherwise,
The Order of Advocates of Brazil  (equivalent to the Bar Association in the US) has an office in Bom Jesus da Lapa.  You may be able to get recommendations for lawyers to interview there:

http://www.oab-ba.org.br/oab/subsecoes/ … us-da-lapa

For accountants, try a Google search on "Escritórios de Contabilidade Bom Jesus da Lapa".  In both cases, it comes down to shoe leather:  interviewing professionals until you meet someone who seems competent and interested, and that you can work with.

If you have more questions, please post them.  All the best!

abthree

NewBrazil,

When do you think you'll have your CRNM?  That will make your life much easier, besides being a legal requirement.

The monetary authorities in Brazil are mostly concerned with money laundering:  large, unexpected transfers make their alarms go off, while regular, expected transfers do not.  As soon as I obtained my CRNM (current name of the card that was then called the CIE), I opened my account at Banco do Brasil.  I told the Assistant Manager that I planned to make one monthly transfer from my US accounts, and how much (in USD) it would be for. 

Since January 2018, I've been absolutely consistent with that schedule.  At first, it took four business days for a transfer to clear, but none were never held up for security reasons.  Over the months, that clearance time has decreased, and now my transfers are available in my BB account the afternoon of the same day that they're initiated in the US.  If you and your wife have a similar discussion with the manager at her bank, you should be able to get the same kind of service.

chistletoe

wow, that is great.....
Yes, I do have some good stories, and fabulous photos.
photos

Did get the CPF in DC awhile ago.
we`ve made one trek to Barreiras already, but right now I need to go back and struggle with the good old FBI for documents.
Brasillia is closer than Sao Paulo.
I have numerous different legal ways to get cash, at this point, in amounts that are easy to live on but don`t buy property.
The bar association link is perfect.  Thanks a million for that.
I`ll be back here ....

Last trip TSA singled me out on the way back, searched my bags pretty thoroughly, found nothing of course.  I had to march alone past 8 burly cops and a dog. Its fine with me if they cant figure out what Im really doing.

abthree

How beautiful -- thanks for sharing!

chistletoe

where in the NE were you?  Spent any time in the Chapada Diamantina?  One of the best-kept secrets in the world .....imho

abthree

chistletoe wrote:

where in the NE were you?  Spent any time in the Chapada Diamantina?  One of the best-kept secrets in the world .....imho


Sergipe.  No, haven't spent any time in the interior of Bahia so far.

mberigan

Chistletoe,

Wow! That IS pretty far removed from just about every major urban center. I'll bet you love it. I have friends north of you in Seabra who also have places in the Chapada (close to but not in Capão). What a beautiful place. If your Inúbia is anything like it.......

Saw your fotos. Simply beautiful.
MattB in Campina Grande

chistletoe

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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