"A Great Country for Old Men"?

Not until the immigration guys and gals start to think about their country more than their pockets.

Thailand and Cambodia not in top 10.
Mexico, Colomboa and Ecuador in top 10 : fortunately, the insecurity was not a factor of the survey...

If they could fix the visa issue I think there would be a large influx of people and the ranking would jump several spots.

I see VN got downgraded for weather.  You can live in any climate you choose to in Vietnam based on how far north you go.  We were in Dak Lak this past weekend and it was 15-19*.  You can pick your weather.  It's not like they have to live in HCMC to work.  They are retired.  I don't think that's a valid downgrade but I suppose most of the respondants live in HCMC.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

What do you think?

Vietnam remains a great country for old men - VN Express

***

I think it's ridiculous to say it's a great country for retirees when they don't have a retirement visa. The visa regulations make it evident Vietnam has absolutely no interest in retirees (except as tourists or 'big buck' investors).

It's a stigma that certain locations in SE Asia are known by.

Creepy looking , tired old men in their 70s & 80s hobbling around , lurking in Cafes & nightspots perving on young women is embarrassing & cringeworthy to see.

Just ask some of the female expats here for their input.    Some might think the above comment is harsh , but you should hear what the women are saying.😀😀😀

They nail it.

Ontheroad57 wrote:

It's a stigma that certain locations in SE Asia are known by.

Creepy looking , tired old men in their 70s & 80s hobbling around , lurking in Cafes & nightspots perving on young women is embarrassing & cringeworthy to see.

Just ask some of the female expats here for their input.    Some might think the above comment is harsh , but you should hear what the women are saying.😀😀😀

They nail it.

In reference to expat women here. I found out early on that many of the older female expats are very bitter and angry because guys dont look at them or pay any attention to them. I still find it funny that many of them keep going to the very places that the creepy old men hang out in.

As for the younger ones, well, most have some very strange ideas about what goes on here. Many like to pigeon hole all male expats.

Most of my expat friends are all in long term relationships, it seems to be more of the short term expats this reference would relate to.

Getting Pidgeon holed is a problem here.

Been here 10 years,,seeing the same woman for 8 years now but no need to marry.   
She actually “told” me not to be seen hanging around with the “boneyard” mob of creepy old men that have been fleeced & thrown to the dogs.     The cheap beer is all they have left now.

Her family doesn't want their daughter associated with that “element”. If the locals in  the area see you at the usual haunts with them .....your all tarred with the same brush.

I suppose if you hang out with the shit ,,,you'll start smelling like them. 😆😆

Guilty by association

SteinNebraska wrote:

I see VN got downgraded for weather.  You can live in any climate you choose to in Vietnam based on how far north you go.  We were in Dak Lak this past weekend and it was 15-19*.  You can pick your weather.  It's not like they have to live in HCMC to work.  They are retired.  I don't think that's a valid downgrade but I suppose most of the respondents live in HCMC.

Agree. The climate is a big plus for me. Endless summer is the only way to go. No matter how hot and humid it gets, I can always say, "Well, at least it isn't snowing." Plus, there's A/C.

The cost of living is great as well as the economic and infrastructural development. However, over-development (too many hotels and condos at the beach) and the environmental issues are a real drag. The food scene is improving somewhat: Italian, Mexican, Indian, Japanese, Russian, German, etc.

However, VN's main advantage is being less of a mess than the neighbors.

VN versus Cambodia, Laos, Philippines, Thailand, Myanmar, Indonesia, Malaysia, or Singapore?

Which one are you going to choose?

Last but not least, you'll never worry about insomnia again.

Hi everyone,

Kindly note that a few posts have been removed from this thread.

Thanks and Regards,

Priscilla
Expat.com Team

To me climate is # 1 as I prefer the year round summer.
And I have to say, where I currently am now in South Florida, that the weather here can't be beat. The closest VN has to this would be Vung Tau. I prefer to own a free standing house with a little bit of land. South Florida is more expensive than the average in the US but not nearly as expensive as the same property would be in Vung Tau especially considering I'm only a few blocks from the beach.

Also the constant hassle of the visa situation and never feeling like you can stay and belong there even if you're married to a VN citizen and have a TRC is a big minus.

In addition there's the big problem with money. You can bring in as much as you want as easily as a click of the mouse but it's a whole different story should you want to take it back out.

Now as some of you know that this is all theory for me as I have not been there yet. My plan was to retire and marry in VN and live in my house in Dong Hoi or perhaps move to a warmer place like Vung Tau. However over the past year or so of study and virtual experience I'm now wanting to marry my girl in VN and I think we'll immigrate back to my home here in Florida.

Again all theory and it's still possible that I'll reverse again after coming there. However those are some pretty big obstacles to overcome.

I am pretty sure these older guys left their western countries for a place where people respect older people and avoid the miserable entitled old women from western countries for whom men are evil and have nothing but bitterness and miserable company to offer guys

hopefull64 wrote:

I am pretty sure these older guys left their western countries for a place where people respect older people and avoid the miserable entitled old women from western countries for whom men are evil and have nothing but bitterness and miserable company to offer guys

You're pretty sure?  I doubt you've talked to enough expats to know the motivation for their move to Vietnam.  I have, and here are a few reasons older men move to Vietnam:

- Yes, there are people who were disillusioned with their marriages or with the problems in their countries, thus they wanted to move to a place where no one knew them and where the problems could not affect them anymore.  That doesn't mean the spouses or significant others they left behind are "miserable entitled old women for whom men are evil and have nothing but bitterness and miserable company to offer". 

Chances are 50/50 that the men who left are not the victims, have you thought of that?  A good relationship requires compatibility, mutual respect, mutual support, solid commitment, and open communication.  It's rarely that one person can totally make or break a relationship without the other person's involvement.

- Unless they have a business in Vietnam, the majority of older expats are here for the low cost of living.  The maximum Social Security for an American is $3000/m and the maximum pension for an Australian is A$2000/m (please correct me if this number is off).  Unless a person has no mortgage and no debt, his pension in either country doesn't allow for many activities that bring him pleasures.  Moving to Vietnam, however, he can buy a lot more with his money.

- Many older expats are here because they read that it's easy to find young and nubile companions.  Once they arrive, finding one is at the top of their lists, and they almost always achieve that goal. 

Do you think those older men, while living in their home country, would look around and imagine themselves having physical relationships with women who are younger than their youngest children, or in many cases, of the same age as their grandchildren?  A few of them may, in the dark recess of their minds, though I seriously doubt that most do.  But once they move to Vietnam, they all see themselves as the modern-age Humbert Humbert and have no hesitation of seeking the youngest companion they can find.

- You said the older men move to Vietnam "where people respect older people".  Yes, Vietnamese respect their elders, but the keyword is their.  They respect their grandparents and the older people whom they know.  They respect the older people in their contact who need help.  That doesn't mean they respect all older people.

Vietnamese are much more conservative than Westerners, so to be respected, the elders must act with dignity, not as "dê già" (randy old man), "dê cụ" (randy great-grandpa), or "già đổ đốn" (degenerated old man), etc. 

In addition, living as an expat who neither speaks the language nor understands the custom, there's no circumstance in which you would receive the respect from the locals.  It's a misconception that you would come to Vietnam as an older person and automatically receive the respect due to your age.  If you don't act or behave respectably then you'll never be respected no matter how old you are.

hopefull64 wrote:

I am pretty sure these older guys left their western countries for a place where people respect older people and avoid the miserable entitled old women from western countries for whom men are evil and have nothing but bitterness and miserable company to offer guys

I'd guess that these men are unable to form an equal partnership with Western woman and/or were unsuccessful obtaining any partnership, so they come here where simply providing money is rated more highly.  There are terrible women in the world, but given the advantages that men have in all societies, I'd bet that the majority of failed relations are because of the man. 

I've not met many women in the US who are "miserable entitled old women" "for whom men are evil and have nothing but bitterness and miserable company to offer", but then I'm not a misogynist.  That might be the key right there.

Expected response from a typical self centred western lady who receives every advantage in life, just check every social indicator, but still hates men blames the for being miserable.

Brilliant response. when you have no valid argument just call misogyny and in the modern world you cannot argue. Old western men in Asia are all misogynist, relationship incapable people unlike the intellectually superior and well rounded people like you. Good work.

hopefull64 wrote:

Expected response from a typical self centred western lady who receives every advantage in life, just check every social indicator, but still hates men blames the for being miserable.

This is a good example of why it is a good idea to either quote or otherwise identify to whom you are addressing a comment.  I am pretty certain that paulmsn is a male, or at least he is pretty sure of that fact, as the first statement in his bio is "I am a male."     If you are addressing your comments to Ciambella they are similarly inappropriate.  She is of course perfectly capable of her own defense, and we have never met face to face, but she seems to me to be very friendly with and capable of dealing with men on an equal and not at all hostile footing.  With respect to her own husband she seems to be downright adoring. 

Your comment does not hold. 

hopefull64 wrote:

Expected response from a typical self centred western lady who receives every advantage in life, just check every social indicator, but still hates men blames the for being miserable.

Hahaha, guess what knucklehead, Ciambella is a Vietnamese lady, not a western woman. I suggest you find out more details about someone before flapping your gums.

Ciambella wrote:

hopefull64 wrote:

I am pretty sure these older guys left their western countries for a place where people respect older people and avoid the miserable entitled old women from western countries for whom men are evil and have nothing but bitterness and miserable company to offer guys

You're pretty sure?  I doubt you've talked to enough expats to know the motivation of their move to Vietnam.  I have, and here are a few reasons older men move to Vietnam:

- Yes, there are people who were disillusioned with their marriages or with the problems in their countries, thus they wanted to move to a place where no one knew them and where the problems could not affect them anymore.  That doesn't mean the spouses or significant others they left behind are "miserable entitled old women for whom men are evil and have nothing but bitterness and miserable company to offer". 

Chances are 50/50 that the men who left are not the victims, have you thought of that?  A good relationship requires compatibility, mutual respect, mutual support, solid commitment, and open communication.  It's rarely that one person can totally make or break a relationship without the other person's involvement.

- Unless they have a business in Vietnam, most older expats are here for the low cost of living.  The maximum Social Security for an American is $3000/m and the maximum pension for an Australian is A$2000/m (please correct me if this number is off).  Unless a person has no mortgage and no debt, his pension in either country doesn't allow for many activities that bring him pleasures.  Moving to Vietnam, however, he can buy a lot more with his money.

- Many older expats are here because they read that it's easy to find young and nubile companions.  Once they arrive, finding one is at the top of their lists, and they almost always achieve that goal. 

Do you think those older men, while living in their home country, would look around and imagine themselves having physical relationships with women who are younger than their youngest children, or in many cases, of the same age as their grandchildren?  A few of them may, in the dark recess of their minds, though I'm seriously doubt that most do.  But once they move to Vietnam, they all see themselves as the modern-age Humbert Humbert and have no hesitation of seeking the youngest companion they can find.

- You said the older men move to Vietnam "where people respect older people".  Yes, Vietnamese respect their elders, but the keyword is their.  They respect their grandparents and the older people whom they know.  They respect the older people in their contact who need help.  That doesn't mean they respect all older people.

Vietnamese are much more conservative than Westerners, so to be respected, the elders must act with dignity, not as "dê già" (randy old man), "dê cụ" (randy great-grandpa), or "già đổ đốn" (degenerated old man), etc. 

In addition, living as an expat who neither speaks the language nor understands the custom, there's no circumstance in which you would receive the respect from the locals.  It's a misconception that you would come to Vietnam as an older person and automatically received the respected due to your age.  If you don't act or behave respectable then you'll never be respected no matter how old you are.

Btw...another misconception might be that the locals act very respectful and speak kind words (to young or old foreigners alike) but talk very bad about you in their language. So, I suggest...try to learn the language as much as you can if you want to know whether you are truly respected. We basically will never know. But hey...they know how to make you feel welcome. Although they might laugh at your back and talk sh** about you

hopefull64 wrote:

Brilliant response. when you have no valid argument just call misogyny and in the modern world you cannot argue. Old western men in Asia are all misogynist, relationship incapable people unlike the intellectually superior and well rounded people like you. Good work.

If you are responding to me, while my response may not be brilliant, it is thoughtful, and I think any intelligent person would call what you wrote misogynistic.  Nor did I say all old western men are misogynists -- you simply made up a claim that you could more easily attack with.

But I am intellectually superior and well-rounded, so you got that right.

Ontheroad57 wrote:

Getting Pidgeon holed is a problem here.

Been here 10 years,,seeing the same woman for 8 years now but no need to marry.   
She actually “told” me not to be seen hanging around with the “boneyard” mob of creepy old men that have been fleeced & thrown to the dogs.     The cheap beer is all they have left now.

Her family doesn't want their daughter associated with that “element”. If the locals in  the area see you at the usual haunts with them .....your all tarred with the same brush.

I suppose if you hang out with the shit ,,,you'll start smelling like them. 😆😆

Guilty by association

Agreed, my wife and all her friends stay clear of those men and yes, they are all grouped in the same bunch and the good women will have nothing to do with them.

Ciambella -

"Unless they have a business in Vietnam, the majority of older expats are here for the low cost of living."

I agree with you because the main reason, even the article points it out, VN is high on the list due to economics, period.  If VN was more expensive, I sincerely believe that you would see an outflow of expats.  I love VN, but if we ever move back there, it would be based on economics.

Despite living in perhaps the only place in the US with a better climate than Vietnam, I would like to return there to live permanently.  My problem is that with my having had one heart attack, my wife is legitimately concerned that if I had a second one while living in Vietnam it would empty our bank account (assuming I survived.    )  If Medicare would reimburse foreign medical expenses as the military system TRICARE does, I would be there in a minute.  Generally speaking the cost of living is lower in Vietnam than in the US but in a calamity, it could be a lot higher.  Medical costs are low in Vietnam but seldom as low as after-insurance costs in the US.  As it is, we will probably have to be satisfied with 60 day visits once the border opens up again.

THIGV wrote:

Despite living in perhaps the only place in the US with a better climate than Vietnam, I would like to return there to live permanently.  My problem is that with my having had one heart attack, my wife is legitimately concerned that if I had a second one while living in Vietnam it would empty our bank account (assuming I survived.    )  If Medicare would reimburse foreign medical expenses as the military system TRICARE does, I would be there in a minute.  Generally speaking the cost of living is lower in Vietnam than in the US but in a calamity, it could be a lot higher.  Medical costs are low in Vietnam but seldom as low as after-insurance costs in the US.  As it is, we will probably have to be satisfied with 60 day visits once the border opens up again.

Thigv ,Difficult situation for you, but you make a lot of sense, I personally from experience don't rate the private hospitals in Vietnam, they are just five star hotels, the better doctors are in the locals hospitals ( i call their Hospitals  bus stations,)  that your average Vietnamese use, The doctors are generally very good, most speak English and work under conditions western doctors would walk away from. I have been to the hospitals a few times with minor accident problems and to see my wife's relations when they have been sick  , they charge very little.  I am not sure how you would go if you had a Heart attack, what it would cost you. My wife and  I have a Full Medical in Oz every year when we go back. I worry about medivac costs and allow for AUS$30,000 ,I have private insurance in Oz so no problem when i get back . I looked into insurance here in Vietnam and because i am 73 ,the rates are very very high and many exclusions, so many its not worth having. So I insure myself. If i didn't have much money i wouldn't live here. Mind you i save so much money living in Vietnam compared to Oz, Medivac would be covered after a year living here.
I don't live here to save money, but as a  travel base. Oz is a 10 hours flight to just about any where. and my wife being Vietnamese prefers to live in Vietnam.

Keith+Phuong wrote:

THIGV wrote:

Despite living in perhaps the only place in the US with a better climate than Vietnam, I would like to return there to live permanently.  My problem is that with my having had one heart attack, my wife is legitimately concerned that if I had a second one while living in Vietnam it would empty our bank account (assuming I survived.    )  If Medicare would reimburse foreign medical expenses as the military system TRICARE does, I would be there in a minute.  Generally speaking the cost of living is lower in Vietnam than in the US but in a calamity, it could be a lot higher.  Medical costs are low in Vietnam but seldom as low as after-insurance costs in the US.  As it is, we will probably have to be satisfied with 60 day visits once the border opens up again.

Thigv ,Difficult situation for you, but you make a lot of sense, I personally from experience don't rate the private hospitals in Vietnam, they are just five star hotels, the better doctors are in the locals hospitals ( i call their Hospitals  bus stations,)  that your average Vietnamese use, The doctors are generally very good, most speak English and work under conditions western doctors would walk away from. I have been to the hospitals a few times with minor accident problems and to see my wife's relations when they have been sick  , they charge very little.  I am not sure how you would go if you had a Heart attack, what it would cost you. My wife and  I have a Full Medical in Oz every year when we go back. I worry about medivac costs and allow for AUS$30,000 ,I have private insurance in Oz so no problem when i get back . I looked into insurance here in Vietnam and because i am 73 ,the rates are very very high and many exclusions, so many its not worth having. So I insure myself. If i didn't have much money i wouldn't live here. Mind you i save so much money living in Vietnam compared to Oz, Medivac would be covered after a year living here.
I don't live here to save money, but as a  travel base. Oz is a 10 hours flight to just about any where. and my wife being Vietnamese prefers to live in Vietnam.

Very interesting, please tell us all, where are the private hospitals in Vietnam that you say are the quality of a 5 star hotel? Certainly none that I have seen have the ambiance of even a 3 star hotel.

Keith+Phuong wrote:

THIGV wrote:

Despite living in perhaps the only place in the US with a better climate than Vietnam, I would like to return there to live permanently.  My problem is that with my having had one heart attack, my wife is legitimately concerned that if I had a second one while living in Vietnam it would empty our bank account (assuming I survived.    )  If Medicare would reimburse foreign medical expenses as the military system TRICARE does, I would be there in a minute.  Generally speaking the cost of living is lower in Vietnam than in the US but in a calamity, it could be a lot higher.  Medical costs are low in Vietnam but seldom as low as after-insurance costs in the US.  As it is, we will probably have to be satisfied with 60 day visits once the border opens up again.

Thigv ,Difficult situation for you, but you make a lot of sense, I personally from experience don't rate the private hospitals in Vietnam, they are just five star hotels, the better doctors are in the locals hospitals ( i call their Hospitals  bus stations,)  that your average Vietnamese use, The doctors are generally very good, most speak English and work under conditions western doctors would walk away from. I have been to the hospitals a few times with minor accident problems and to see my wife's relations when they have been sick  , they charge very little.  I am not sure how you would go if you had a Heart attack, what it would cost you. My wife and  I have a Full Medical in Oz every year when we go back. I worry about medivac costs and allow for AUS$30,000 ,I have private insurance in Oz so no problem when i get back . I looked into insurance here in Vietnam and because i am 73 ,the rates are very very high and many exclusions, so many its not worth having. So I insure myself. If i didn't have much money i wouldn't live here. Mind you i save so much money living in Vietnam compared to Oz, Medivac would be covered after a year living here.
I don't live here to save money, but as a  travel base. Oz is a 10 hours flight to just about any where. and my wife being Vietnamese prefers to live in Vietnam.

Given the choice of course a western style hospital woukd be moe apoealing, but i gwve my doubts they are just cash cows and the level of care doesn't or wouldn't live up to the glitzy inage. Having been here a whole year now you quickly learn intial impressions of any business is just a fake facade.

May be i exaggerated about Private Hospitals being five star hotels, what i meant was they look good compared to Vietnamese hospitals for locals. i have lived in Vietnam for 13 years in Hanoi and Nha Trang, The first Hospital in Hanoi i went into to see my Wife's mum, depressed me , if i had been put in there i would of  gone down hill fast. It and subsequent hospitals i have been in (about four all together) reminded me of world war 1 hospitals , metal frame beds ,two to a bed and the relatives sleeping under the bed to act as nurse and change drips, My wife was away for four nights on this duty. There ward had about 12 beds and a hole in the ground toilet at the end of the ward, with no air lock to prevent flies flying between the toilet and ward. i said to my wife this is privative we have to get your mum out of here to a private hospital, my wife said no mum is happy here, this is good ,normally you have to go out the ward and down a hall to a toilet!. 
Private hospitals in Vietnam are famous for over servicing, i can tell you stories from my own experience and other expats. But maybe i am going off script?. Sorry!.

Keith+Phuong wrote:

May be i exaggerated about Private Hospitals being five star hotels, what i meant was they look good compared to Vietnamese hospitals for locals. i have lived in Vietnam for 13 years in Hanoi and Nha Trang, The first Hospital in Hanoi i went into to see my Wife's mum, depressed me , if i had been put in there i would of  gone down hill fast. It and subsequent hospitals i have been in (about four all together) reminded me of world war 1 hospitals , metal frame beds ,two to a bed and the relatives sleeping under the bed to act as nurse and change drips, My wife was away for four nights on this duty. There ward had about 12 beds and a hole in the ground toilet at the end of the ward, with no air lock to prevent flies flying between the toilet and ward. i said to my wife this is privative we have to get your mum out of here to a private hospital, my wife said no mum is happy here, this is good ,normally you have to go out the ward and down a hall to a toilet!. 
Private hospitals in Vietnam are famous for over servicing, i can tell you stories from my own experience and other expats. But maybe i am going off script?. Sorry!.

Sounds about right from my experience too! Just could not get my head round the 5 star bit........now go Bangkok Bumrungrad International now thats 5 star or even Paolo 4.5 star & no more expensive than say FV. Go to Raffles in Singapore & thats 5 star but you need to have millions in the bank (not dong) or a good insurance cover.

Hi everyone,

Kindly note that a few posts have been removed from this thread.

Thanks and Regards,

Priscilla

IT IS a great country for old men. I love it here.
The only hassel is with greedy, incompetent immigration staff.
I have visited bot Hanoi and Saigon. Same ***. Don't care for anything except for the deep pockets, short working hours and time off.
I sent 20 emails to Immigration. One was answered with poor ***.
I gave up having anything to do with them.

At least you got a reply 😆

Its not just immigration who are greedy, simply having white skin can mark you for anyone wanting to fleece you... but its hard to blame locals when then see the glitzy western lifestyle, exposure to american cilture has corrupted a lot of people chasing cash

I am a 74 year old male veteran living in Carbondale, Illinois and love to visit Vietnam. I look younger than my age-thank goodness! All my life, I looked up to my elders as my mentors, although I did not know what mentor meant. Youth today THINK they always will be young! Think again! Many women do not age well, or men. Lady, look in the mirror at age 50+, the wrinkles, lack of teeth and maybe  balding. Shame on you for your comments. I do not wish anything bad on anyone. I wish you a great life and that you and everyone reading this does also. Have a great life. Sincerely, Mr. Sandy K.

write2sandy wrote:

Think again! Many women do not age well, or men. Lady, look in the mirror at age 50+, the wrinkles, lack of teeth and maybe  balding. Shame on you for your comments.

I am confused.    Was this addressed to  particular person or to some generic 50+ woman.

Vietnam is a great country for any man. Key factor is to immerse oneself in the local culture, zero need to embrace any expat. Lived here for years, over 20 years in other Asian countries..Single Canadian retired and enjoying my life.

THIGV wrote:

write2sandy wrote:

Think again! Many women do not age well, or men. Lady, look in the mirror at age 50+, the wrinkles, lack of teeth and maybe  balding. Shame on you for your comments.

I am confused.    Was this addressed to  particular person or to some generic 50+ woman.

He's 74 and talking to himself!

vikingjeger wrote:

Vietnam is a great country for any man. Key factor is to immerse oneself in the local culture, zero need to embrace any expat. Lived here for years, over 20 years in other Asian countries..Single Canadian retired and enjoying my life.

May I ask ? have you lived in the Philippines ? and if so how did find life there compared to Viet Nam ?

Lived over 6 years in the Visayas region of PHL. The country at that time  was fighting terrorists, drug dealers, killings and everything in between. Rented land, build a native beach house in Santander, south Cebu Island, and enjoyed the sea and beach.

Country is piss poor, and miles beyond Vietnam..in everything. Poverty is everywhere, corruption and violence a daily affair and women trows them self at anyone..with money. All westerns are called "Papa - Americano" regardless of nationality. There are exceptions and Makati in Manila is the shining star..few feet away from child prostitution, street dwellers, garbage and filth.

Not a recommended destination.

vikingjeger wrote:

Vietnam is a great country for any man. Key factor is to immerse oneself in the local culture, zero need to embrace any expat. Lived here for years, over 20 years in other Asian countries..Single Canadian retired and enjoying my life.

Just out of curiosity, how are you managing the visa situation? Have a TRC?