Joint custody

Joint custody for mother and father is the default, no declaration is needed f you are the (legal) father.
(If you are not legal father, the question should be how to become one. For that, the mother should contact a good lawyer in family law.)
Or maybe you mean something else? What do you want to achieve with this declaration?

Hello Beppi,

Thanks for taking your time to reply..to be more precise I need to obtain my visa under family reunion with a foreign child ( whom I’m really the father under declaration  )  and I’m neither married nor living with the mother in the same land for the moment , the law automatically declares the mother having full custody of this child.. The problem is that to obtain my visa I have to declare a joint custody but the problem is that through my visa application , I already submitted my passport with the rest of the documents which have been sent to Germany.. which means I can’t travel to get to the German civil status and make such declaration  .. plus German consulate can’t really help here under the ground that they are not enough of a legal institution for such declaration.. I wanted to know if somebody knows another way to get through this very outstanding situation in order to clarify that step of my visa application...

Thanks

Bl@ckfin

You did not specify why the mother has sole custody.
It could be because you are not the legal father. This can happen if the father is unknown or not specified at birth. In that case the mother automatically has sole custody.
But then a custody declaration wold not help, because then you are still not father (at least from a legal standpoint - being biological father does not help here!). To my knowledge, only the legal father (and not a mere custody holder) can get the family reunion visa.
Becoming father is more complicated than sharing custody. It cannot just be "declared". I think it has to be be recognised by a German family court. The mother should engage a good lawyer for family law!

Edited to add: The above assumes the child is German citizen. If not, Germany has probably no jurisdiction over this and you should contact the authorities of the baby's home country.

Dear Beppi,

As mentioned I’m fully legally and biologically the father of that child ..Plus I got all papers from the jugendamt ( birth declaration and proof of paternity ) and the reason why the mother have the full custody is that I’m living in Mauritius and the baby is born in Germany with her mother and according to the law the mother gets automatically the full custody..which is normal .My application for family reunion is going very well just that we should update our current status to joint custody  by now on .. unfortunately I’ve been told by the German Consulate that no German institution can’t  do this legal paper work in Mauritius  .. I’m asking myself if a Mauritian notary could legalize the procedure with the approval of tel he PMO and the Mauritius foreign affairs ..It would be easier to go to Germany for these paperwork but the pandemic sitiluation would make it super difficult financially .. that’s why I’m thinking of this option.. if you know a better idea be sure that  your point of view is very welcoming !

Bl@ckfin

If you want good advice, it would have been better to give the full picture in your first post, rather than piecemeal in three posts while leaving us wildly guessing!
But now that I understand the full issue, I wonder what you expect from us?
You already got the reply that a custody declaration is not possible in Mauritius. (Do you doubt the information you get from the embassy?)
What do you need the custody declaration for? Can't you get it after arrival in Germany with the FRV (which you say you will easily get)? That would be far easier! Or do you suspect the mother will (ab-)use the sole custody until then?
Again: If the child is German citizen (you still did not say so), then a German family court needs to get involved. The mother should contact a good lawyer for family law, who will advise you on the next steps!

My bad if I need to be that much precise abt such subject.. if I’m asking this question this way I’m presuming that you would understand that a visa only applies to the parents of the child with declaration duly done..I don’t know where you are living now  but if you were in Mauritius .. you would understand that there is no embassy but a consulate .. which with time I understood is of a less juridical institution.. They also seems to be very much doubtful abt options to sort out the situation and going back and forth to Germany for a simple signature isn’t reaching my absolute financial situation .. which brings me again to the same point of you would live in Mauritius you will know for sure that once you land back in Mauritius you could have the luxury of staying in a nice hotel for 14days for a price reaching extortion!! I did mention that the kindt is born in Germany thus giving her the German nationality for your info.. In order to get a visa they absolutely ask a declaration of joint custody which my partner and I agrees on doing..I’m trying to avoid an unnecessary flight to Germany when this paper could be done In a different way than an obsolete German institution based in Mauritius .. My idea ( I don’t know if this could work ) is to do this declaration in Mauritius with a notary office  and make it legal through the Prime minister office and the foreign affairs then send it translated to the jugendamt who will refer this to the immigration office of Germany.. I do acknowledge it’s not the simplest approach but it’s for sure less expensive than just flying for a signature)  .. I  just wanted to know if this could be an option too or if there is other means of reaching this point at the end of the day .. thanks

To make it in another word.. we want to declare this joint custody separately from our respective country and send them to the jugendamt.. I can’t be clearer  than this ..

I am sorry that being VERY precise in wording and meaning is necessary for all legal processes. This was not my idea, but I believe Germany does not differ in this from other countries, including yours.
Also, this is the Germany forum and you cannot expect Mauritius-specific knowledge here. Sorry!
If your country only has a German consulate, there is an embassy in a neighbouring country that oversees it. Did you find out which one that is and did you contact them?
Just being born in Germany does NOT give the child German citizenship. For that, one of the parents would have to be German. Is the mother or you German? Is the child German (as shown by e.g. having a German passport)? If not, you should contact the authorities of the child's home country instead.
I did not know that having custody, in addition to being father, is required for a FRV. But it makes sense. In that case, you have to furnish the custody declaration and the onus of getting it is on you (not the embassy or consulate - they don't care how difficult it is and that is also not their job).
An immigration or family lawyer (whose fees would not be cheap but probably cost less than a flight) really is the only authoritative option to find a way forwards - if one exists. If you shun the cost of this, the mother can also contact her local Jugendamt- maybe they can help, too.

A simple Google search just told me that the German embassy in Antananarivo, Madagascar, is in charge of Mauritius.

Bl@ckfin wrote:

To make it in another word.. we want to declare this joint custody separately from our respective country and send them to the jugendamt.. I can’t be clearer  than this ..

Although still not clear, I interpret this as: The child is not German.
In that case Germany has (as far as I know) no jurisdiction about custody.
(It would possibly be different if both of you lived in Germany, because under certain circumstances - which I do not know, but a family lawyer can tell you about- German family law kicks in.)
You better contact the authorities of the baby's home country!

The kid is as much German as the national flag itself .. Thank you for your answer ...

This is curious.
How did you manage to get German citizenship for the kid if both parents are not?

As much I am informed the German embassy is situated in Pretoria South Africa

***

Are you unhappy, because I do not write what you want to hear or because I don't understand what you didn't say?
In any case, if you don't accept well-meant advice, then maybe this forum is not for you.

Bl@ckfin wrote:

As much I am informed the German embassy is situated in Pretoria South Africa

According to this official webpage, it is Antananarivo,Madagascar:
https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/auss … ius/206982

Amtsbezirk / Konsularbezirk
Madagaskar und Mauritius
Der Leiter der Vertretung ist zugleich als Botschafter in Mauritius mit Sitz in Antananarivo akkreditiert.

I have read this whole discussion and I still don't understand what you want to know.

So you have a German girlfriend by whom you have an child. For unclear reasons she has the full custody of your child, but now you want to join them and you want to stay in Germany.
So now you want to have joint custody, but how come they gave your girlfriend full custody? That doesn't make much sense to me.

If the German law gave her the full custody you would have to challenge it by the German government. Your girlfriend must say to the authorities that she wants to share custody with you. If she doesn't want to it seems you have a problem and you would have to go to court.
Are you really sure she wants to share the custody with you? I will have to guess that you must have been to Germany at least once, so you must have the legal German papers to proof it is your child.

The whole situation is still very foggy to me to be fair.

A few points; in terms of consular services like visas etc. a consulate is usually able to do as much as an embassy. But neither are judicial entities that can do the things you seem to expect. Sounds like you need a legal document issued in Germany, either an agreement about custody done by a lawyer that both sign or possibly a court statement that certifies the joint custody. An embassy is not any more able to issue this than a consulate – not their job.

And the qualification for a non-EU person to get residency in Germany because of having a child that is a German citizen child usually stipulates that the person supports the child and lives with the mother, although not necessarily married. Maybe there are exceptions but want to point out that even agreed joint custody might not be enough.

Another point is that being born in Germany does NOT give one German citizenship! It depends on the citizenship of the legal parents. If the mother is German, then the kid is German, if not, then not. But the avoidance of answering the question concerning this is questionable and turned insulting. If the mother is German then why not simply say so? You have danced around giving a straight answer confirming this as far as I had read. That a kid is born in a German hospital means NOTHING, neither that the kid nor the mother is German. Lots of foreigner residents give birth in German hospitals.

And I am not sure if it is relevant but I suspect you didn’t understand Beppi’s comment that even proof of being the biological father doesn’t make one the legal father. This can have significant implications. All in all, you seem more concerned about asserting certain assumptions, which your evasive answers fail to verify, than you seem to be looking for honest answers or solutions.

Thanks Ramses and Tom for sharing my concern!