CRNM e Residência; Agendamentos in Lapa

"Congratulations" sir,
Could you please share the subject of the questions of the interview? Was it an individual interview? In English or in Portuguse?

There were no questions, really. 

The woman looked over my paperwork and stamped my receipts for the boletos. She also gave me a paper to sign, telling me to keep all my documentation for five years.

She asked when my passport photo was taken, and I told her the date (of the passport).  She took my photo and fingerprints, printed the document for my CRNM and had me look over it before handing it to me along with everything I brought.

She then welcomed me and told me that my cartão would be ready in 60 days.

I was told before that they’re really suspicious of stable unions in which one partner doesn’t speak Portuguese, or where there’s a huge age gap.

They will send you out the door if you’re missing a document; they’ll also send you across the street to pay R$2,5 for copies of documents if you’re missing any.

Please were you asked for proof of address. If yes, what did you present please as proof of address.

I had this issue and was asked to get a lease contract. I have only been in brazil for 2 months and I don't have lease contract
Can anyone please advise on what can be done

HaDov,

Congratulations -that's great news.

I provided a copy of our water and telephone bills.

They showed my wife’s name and our address.

If you’re not applying based on união estável, you’ll have to show something in your name or the name of your sponsor.

EvelynJ wrote:

Please were you asked for proof of address. If yes, what did you present please as proof of address.

I had this issue and was asked to get a lease contract. I have only been in brazil for 2 months and I don't have lease contract
Can anyone please advise on what can be done

They'll generally accept a utility bill (electric and water definitely, phone or internet probably)  in your name.

Thank you. I currently use Airbnb apartment.
What other option do I have since I can't get any bill in my name?

abthree wrote:

EvelynJ wrote:

Please were you asked for proof of address. If yes, what did you present please as proof of address.

I had this issue and was asked to get a lease contract. I have only been in brazil for 2 months and I don't have lease contract
Can anyone please advise on what can be done

They'll generally accept a utility bill (electric and water definitely, phone or internet probably)  in your name.

You are wanting permanent residency which means needing a permanent/lease contract.
An Airbnb is temporary,
It is going to be difficult without a lease agreement or contract to purchase.
The utility bill can be accepted with your address.

You’re between a rock and a hard place here.

You need an apartment lease or an utility bill in your name or the name of the person sponsoring you.

If you try to game the system, chances are you’ll be caught.

If you’re not trying to get residence based on reunião familiar, all I can do is refer you to the PF website (http://pf.gov.br) to obtain a list of what’s acceptable in your case.

I’d suggest that you consult with an immigration attorney.

EvelynJ wrote:

Please were you asked for proof of address. If yes, what did you present please as proof of address.

I had this issue and was asked to get a lease contract. I have only been in brazil for 2 months and I don't have lease contract
Can anyone please advise on what can be done

I completed this process in December. All I used was a home telephone bill as my proof of address, per the facilitator we hired. With his organizational help and keeping the paperwork to exactly what was requested by the PF, we were not in the PF building for more than 15-minutes.  It was easy

You’re going to spend more time in line than you will inside the building; that much is certain.

HaDov, may I ask where are you from and how did you achieve your residence based on what?

Today I was in Lapa as well and asking for a student visa (whilst in Brazil) and all I'm missing is my birth certificate with apostilha, which is impossible for me to get because once I leave Brazil I won't be able to come back being just a tourist. It's such a burocratic pain in the ass.

why would they want my birth certificate if I show them my German Passport? Brazil works very politically correct when it comes to Policia Federal. lol

Sorry to butt in, but I think it's common for most countries to expect both a passport and a birth certificate for most government stuff.

mitchel85 wrote:

HaDov, may I ask where are you from and how did you achieve your residence based on what?

Today I was in Lapa as well and asking for a student visa (whilst in Brazil) and all I'm missing is my birth certificate with apostilha, which is impossible for me to get because once I leave Brazil I won't be able to come back being just a tourist. It's such a burocratic pain in the ass.

why would they want my birth certificate if I show them my German Passport? Brazil works very politically correct when it comes to Policia Federal. lol

When Identity document does not show filiation, a birth certificate is mandatory!

rraypo wrote:

Sorry to butt in, but I think it's common for most countries to expect both a passport and a birth certificate for most government stuff.

Yes I understand. I thought it was necessary when marrying but when applying for student visa. My bad

SameDame wrote:

mitchel85 wrote:

HaDov, may I ask where are you from and how did you achieve your residence based on what?

Today I was in Lapa as well and asking for a student visa (whilst in Brazil) and all I'm missing is my birth certificate with apostilha, which is impossible for me to get because once I leave Brazil I won't be able to come back being just a tourist. It's such a burocratic pain in the ass.

why would they want my birth certificate if I show them my German Passport? Brazil works very politically correct when it comes to Policia Federal. lol

When Identity document does not show filiation, a birth certificate is mandatory!

Sorry to ask but what is filiation exactly?

mitchel85 wrote:

SameDame wrote:

mitchel85 wrote:

HaDov, may I ask where are you from and how did you achieve your residence based on what?

Today I was in Lapa as well and asking for a student visa (whilst in Brazil) and all I'm missing is my birth certificate with apostilha, which is impossible for me to get because once I leave Brazil I won't be able to come back being just a tourist. It's such a burocratic pain in the ass.

why would they want my birth certificate if I show them my German Passport? Brazil works very politically correct when it comes to Policia Federal. lol

When Identity document does not show filiation, a birth certificate is mandatory!

Sorry to ask but what is filiation exactly?

The names of your mother and father.

I came here on a tourist visa at the end of august and got married around the first of November.  Although I brought all my documents, I only used my marriage certificate for the permanent residence because it’s less paperwork and shows the names of my parents just like my birth certificate.

They just need a legal document from your home country which shows your filiation, as it’s used just about everywhere from your SUS info to your phone account.

If the consulate is open in Berlim, you can do your student visa from there without having the hassle of wondering which line you need to be in, in front of the delegacia.

HaDov wrote:

I came here on a tourist visa at the end of august and got married around the first of November.  Although I brought all my documents, I only used my marriage certificate for the permanent residence because it’s less paperwork and shows the names of my parents just like my birth certificate.

They just need a legal document from your home country which shows your filiation, as it’s used just about everywhere from your SUS info to your phone account.

If the consulate is open in Berlim, you can do your student visa from there without having the hassle of wondering which line you need to be in, in front of the delegacia.

Do you think hiring a lawyer would make applying for residence smoother?

Honestly it might take away some of the headache, especially if you’re unsure as to whether you’ve done everything correctly. 

I can’t give you an exact answer to your situation, as you’re applying on the basis of a stable union as opposed to marriage; in your case, I’d at least make a consultation with an attorney and get some guidance.

HaDov wrote:

I came here on a tourist visa at the end of august and got married around the first of November.  Although I brought all my documents, I only used my marriage certificate for the permanent residence because it’s less paperwork and shows the names of my parents just like my birth certificate.

They just need a legal document from your home country which shows your filiation, as it’s used just about everywhere from your SUS info to your phone account.

If the consulate is open in Berlim, you can do your student visa from there without having the hassle of wondering which line you need to be in, in front of the delegacia.

Thanks for your reply. So wouldn’t be my German ID a legal document as well apart from my passport?

Did you need to show your birth certificate at some point?

Thank you

Your passport will suffice for your “documento de viagem”.  Any legal document containing your filiation will do as far as residence is concerned.

I had to show my birth certificate for the marriage, as US passports don’t contain filiation.  Beyond that, i haven’t needed it; besides, the cartorio has a translated original copy on file now, so technically it’s “in the system”.

HaDov, thanks for clarifying.

I guess there is no way round for this birth certificate. Because of one document I need to travel to my hometown where I haven't been in 20 years, get this document and then send it to Berlin to Brazilian embassy to certify it and then translate it and those translations must be certified as well, not sure whether in Germany or Brazil. 

It's a huge pain in the ass, especially during corona times.

I believe for US-American it's easier to get their birth certificate, even online. Germany can be really hard. Not even to mention "Antecedentes penais", same burocracy.

It's funny, actually the guy working at the Policia Federal, when I was asking about the student visa requirements, he said: "Well you could just make a união estável, it's easier to obtain a permanent visa ". Yes, he actually said this, lol.

mitchel85 wrote:

HaDov, thanks for clarifying.

I guess there is no way round for this birth certificate. Because of one document I need to travel to my hometown where I haven't been in 20 years, get this document and then send it to Berlin to Brazilian embassy to certify it and then translate it and those translations must be certified as well, not sure whether in Germany or Brazil.

Germany is a party to the Apostille Convention, so you'll be able to have it apostilled by the German authorities  - that should make it a little easier.   In fact, the Embassy will not legalize it, just refer you to them.

Sworn Translations can and should be done in Brazil.   Just do a search on "Traduções Juramentadas" for a local Sworn Translator,  which is an official designation.   There are also reputable online services with national reach.

Are you sure Germany does not have an online service to obtain BC? Many everywhere lose a birth certificate.
I had my translated and apostilled, then came to find out they wanted "long-form" (with parents name). I think this may have changed. I went online and order BC via the state's website.
I had parents marriage certificate and their birth certifcates, and death certificates. Thank goodness for common sense, I overwhelmed them and they accepted the proof and saved the costs of shipping the BC from the state.

mitchel85,

Here are the "Competent Authorities" for issuing apostilles in Germany, depending on whether the document was issued under Federal or Land authority:

https://www.hcch.net/en/states/authorit … 3/?aid=322

abthree wrote:

mitchel85,

Here are the "Competent Authorities" for issuing apostilles in Germany, depending on whether the document was issued under Federal or Land authority:

https://www.hcch.net/en/states/authorit … 3/?aid=322

oh wow abthree, thank you a lot for your input. I never heard of this website.

abthree wrote:

mitchel85 wrote:

HaDov, thanks for clarifying.

I guess there is no way round for this birth certificate. Because of one document I need to travel to my hometown where I haven't been in 20 years, get this document and then send it to Berlin to Brazilian embassy to certify it and then translate it and those translations must be certified as well, not sure whether in Germany or Brazil.

Germany is a party to the Apostille Convention, so you'll be able to have it apostilled by the German authorities  - that should make it a little easier.   In fact, the Embassy will not legalize it, just refer you to them.

Sworn Translations can and should be done in Brazil.   Just do a search on "Traduções Juramentadas" for a local Sworn Translator,  which is an official designation.   There are also reputable online services with national reach.

Hi abthree, indeed Germany is part of the La Haya Convention and that should make it easier.

When you mention "the embassy will not legalize it, just refer you to them", which embassy are you talking about? The Brazilian one in Berlin or the German one in São Paulo?

About the Traduções Juramentadas, indeed I found many in São Paulo. But one question, is it possible for the Policia Federal asking me to authenticate or legalize with an apostille that translation?

I'm a bit lost at that part: To authenticate my German Birth Certificate (once I'll be able to get it somehow and somehwere), I'll need to send it to the Brazilian Embassy in Berlin? And once I have both, the original and the authenticated apostille document, do I have to translate them here in São Paulo or do I have to find a sworn translator in Germany to translate the document into Portuguese and then getting authenticated by the Brazilian embassy?

I'm getting confused even typing that question, so imagine my mind, it's more or less like this! lol

Also at the Policia Federal, when I showed my paycheck, they said the same: The need to see the paycheck translated and authenticated. So again, who authenticates my paycheck or my bank statement? Did you show some kind of bank statement that that had to be translated? I even asked twice and they said "yes yes, all translated and authenticated". I feel like depending on their state of mind they say whether one thing or another. Did you have to proof any sworn translated and with apostille authenticated document to proof your finances? Again, I'm lost. Brazil really got me!

If it wasn't for you here in this forum I'd feel completely lost. This is like a shimmer of hope.

Texanbrazil wrote:

Are you sure Germany does not have an online service to obtain BC? Many everywhere lose a birth certificate.
I had my translated and apostilled, then came to find out they wanted "long-form" (with parents name). I think this may have changed. I went online and order BC via the state's website.
I had parents marriage certificate and their birth certifcates, and death certificates. Thank goodness for common sense, I overwhelmed them and they accepted the proof and saved the costs of shipping the BC from the state.

Hi Texanbrazil,

I just sent an email to my "Standesamt", which is like a registry office where my birth is registered. Their website only mentiones that cost for a copy of the birth book, which is 10 euros, so I asked whether they offer some kind of covid19 adapted measures -  online service.

Glad you overwhelmed them with documents and they accepted haha

I truly believe it depends on who's at service at any given day and whether you reach them during "rush hour" and they're stressed or not.

I haven't found any online service for my BC yet. I found this:

https://standesamt.online/geburtsurkunde-anfordern/

and then I read its a scam:

https://de.trustpilot.com/review/standesamt.online

I bet there are more Germans in the same situation trying to get their documents online and most registry offices from small towns don't offer any kind of online or mail service, so obviously scammer create fake "registry office" sites to take advantage... wow!

getting a permanent visa and a RNE for Brazil is the most complicated task I've ever faced in my life. Feels like every time I take one step forward, they request three more documents which I'm unable to provide right now unless I travel back to Germany.  I'll pray to Nossa Senhora do Brasil.

https://www.germany-service.com/birth-c … rmany.html
Check this site.
I was with HSBC and they sent all to BB with verification.

Mitchel, to your questions above:

1. "When you mention "the embassy will not legalize it, just refer you to them", which embassy are you talking about? The Brazilian one in Berlin or the German one in São Paulo?"

Prior to the Hague Convention,  a German document would have been legalized by the Brazilian Embassy in Germany; now the apostille from a German "Competent Authority" (from the link I sent you) serves that purpose.  The German Consulate in São Paulo has no role, unless they provide help to Germans abroad in obtaining German apostilles.

2. "is it possible for the Policia Federal asking me to authenticate or legalize with an apostille that translation?"

The apostille on a foreign document requires a Sworn Translation, too.  Sworn Translations don't require apostilles:  Sworn Translators work under government license, and the Polícia Federal have their identities on file.  Sworn Translations are also prepared on special stationery that the PF immediately recognize.

3. "To authenticate my German Birth Certificate (once I'll be able to get it somehow and somehwere), I'll need to send it to the Brazilian Embassy in Berlin? And once I have both, the original and the authenticated apostille document, do I have to translate them here in São Paulo or do I have to find a sworn translator in Germany to translate the document into Portuguese and then getting authenticated by the Brazilian embassy?"

No need to send anything to the Brazilian Embassy in Berlin.  The usual process is:
- obtain your German document (getting duplicates/copies at the same time if possible is a good idea)
- have an apostille affixed by the German "Competent Authority" to the document you'll be submitting to the PF
- Receive documents in Brazil
- Have Sworn Translations prepared of the document and apostille
- Submit to PF with your application.
Do this for all of your German documents,  except your passport.  Keep copies of the Sworn Translations:   they don't expire.

4. "Also at the Policia Federal, when I showed my paycheck, they said the same: The need to see the paycheck translated and authenticated. So again, who authenticates my paycheck or my bank statement?"

German paycheck and bank statement?   Have Sworn Translations prepared, and authenticated copies of the original documents made at a cartório.  Submit the authenticated copies with the Sworn Translations, have the originals available for inspection,  and you should be ok.

Oh abthree, thanks so much for explaining every step in detail. I really appreciate.

Texanbrazil wrote:

https://www.germany-service.com/birth-certificate-germany.html
Check this site.
I was with HSBC and they sent all to BB with verification.

Texanbrazil, thanks a lot for this link.

I've seen they offer:

"One birth certificate (multilingual form) with Apostille. Apostilles are generally issued by the authorities in German only. 179 us$"

It may cost more, but since it comes with Apostille, it's worth it maybe. So basically I skip the step that abthree explained earlier, to send it to a "Competent Authority", right?

Texanbrazil, do you know someone who ordered from there? I found this review on yelp:

"This service only provides a translation of your birth certificate; not a valid certificate.  The birth certificate I received was not a valid certificate.  She gave me a piece of paper with the German symbol.  No birth time, hospital, doctor, etc"

Since the official website from my home town registry office says that in order to receive a birth certificate you have to show up in person... I highly doubt any third party company can obtain a legit copy of my birth certificate... I believe they create something "as good as" the original, with some stamps, etc... 

I'm not sure whether risking it or not....

No, I have no need for things in Germany. I just googled it and many companies came up.
If the laws require being there in person, I think that is a burden on citizens living and working in Germany.
I did not have to fly/drive 1000 miles to just get a cert copy. I did have to fill out the form and swear and affirm my signature in from of a notary where I lived.

mitchel85 wrote:

Since the official website from my home town registry office says that in order to receive a birth certificate you have to show up in person... I highly doubt any third party company can obtain a legit copy of my birth certificate... I believe they create something "as good as" the original, with some stamps, etc... 

I'm not sure whether risking it or not....

Mitchel,

I'm not familiar with this service, so can't recommend either yes or no; a similar service got me the apostille for my FBI Background Check, but that was a US-based firm (like this one) working with US documents.

I would point out, though, that the Polícia Federal will be working through a checklist to document a file.  They'll probably be looking for a document --
  -- that looks like it's in German, probably without being able to read German;
  -- has an official-looking seal
  -- names your parents
  -- has an official-looking apostille
  -- has a sworn translation.

Only you can judge whether the possible benefit is worth gambling $100 - 200 US.  I'd probably at least contact them to try to get a better feel about what they can do.

Hello everyone,

Do I need to pay do GRU fees before making an appointment ?

Yes. As the system is rather congested, you don't really know when your appointment will be; it may be months out, or you may be marked as preferential.

Mitchel85, I wouldn't risk it.  A fake apostille could likely land you in a lot of trouble here.