Business registration Filipino style :)

While I appreciate what you are trying to do, I hear the sobbing constantly and honestly wonder if it will all end in tears. From what you have said it all seems too difficult and then some yet you battle on.

Good luck and hope it works out eventually.

Cheers, Steve.

bigpearl wrote:

While I appreciate what you are trying to do, I hear the sobbing constantly and honestly wonder if it will all end in tears. From what you have said it all seems too difficult and then some yet you battle on..

It will be very sad for the poor Filipino if it fail,
but beside the Help-to-self-Help to the poor, for me its mainly a hard challemge.  I like "impossible" challenges        But I  hadnt expected a SELLER being idiot, which I find very annoying.  The other messes I laugh at - so far   

bigpearl wrote:

Good luck and hope it works out eventually.

Thanks. We seem to need that 

Yep, it's very rare here that things work out as one expects, we all have sad and sorry stories, yesterday and today I had a disaster and scratching my head with simple plumbing fittings,,,,,, Yeah you guessed where they are from, another story for another time but it seems a waste of 16K because the seller only sold the fittings and no pipe......
Available everywhere sir.

Cheers, Steve.

coach53 wrote:

THEY dont trust anyone in place in Phils to hand it over to us AFTER we have paid!!! They dont trust neither lawyer (notarisation office),  mayors office nor any of their relalatives who they had put to handle the sellings!!!  So they expect us to trust them!!! who HAVENT fullfiled their step of agreement = Sign the Deed of sale.
We even offered them to hand it over to someone we trust enough, who happen to live an hour drive from them in USA, hand it over at SAME time as they get the money we send by they get the code. Bit they found that to far to drive to solve THEIR mess...
Now THEY are angry at US!!!

Looks like its "Ingrained" here/there/everywhere same mentality!

During the weekend we checked an additional business for sale. A bohnus is geting a stunning view from there both at ocean and muntains. Some interesting, but less bargain, double as high price compared to assets compared to the others. And bad location for transport (althouh it will be improved some when a planned road will be built in the future - if ever    It will be expensive to make ok access even with the planned road .  We havent ruled it out but hope we get the others so we cant buy this (yet).

. .
Today we were suppoused to get some clearance., but guess what happened   

/The owner of the business at wrong lot number went to the baranggay to get thef irst step of that solved - but no one in office with power to do it...

/We made a for us inconvinient solution idea to make the idiots dont even need to trust any in their family. Seem the idiots are idiots still though.

/I had found the law telling the fees for a thing we need to want an OTHER property, which we had skiped because the hamdler office had told  10 times higher yearly cost than the law say!!! The law is from 2004 but odd if that have gone up 10 times. So we went there to
1. ask again and to get a copy of the PAPER which tell the fees.  Didnt get any paper     and they said its FREE!!!     (I believe they mix up, the STARTUP year is free, but we wonder what the cost will be for following years.)
2. Ask how to get it.
-You cant. We dont have Forms.
!!!   
My bussiness partner work hard and try very  hard     inspite of he is unused to "paper work"  but he need some exersise in making follow up questions, when he get unexpected anwers and go on asking until geting compleete info.  So he has to go back there. 
IF its free or the fees as the law say (plus inflation is ok)  then this will be our best purchase. IF the office will get form so we can get it   

Now we have been at BIR TWO times trying to register and order acounting books and prints of invoices and reciepts.
Wednesday:   
- Why are you register your business??
Perhaps because its mandatory...   

Today Friday:
- Come back 28 june.
!!!  We have been there twice allready...

. .
Some steps forward though with the property the officials had put same lot number at as an other.  Two steps done, 2 - 3 steps left depending of if they will make a new survey or not.  The four corner stones are there allready.

A business for sale have some legal issues, and we got probably wrong infprmation from officials about that too       So earlier we SKIPED it, but now we have researched for possibilities to solve the mess, and last night I got an idea how it can be solved. So now went my business partner to check if the owners can be interested in such solution idea, where we buy the things, but lease the land - kind of,   coach style solution        thinking out of the box.   The owners would get paid MORE but later, which many Filipinos dont like      BUT without us, they would probably not solve the mess so they would earn nothing otherwice, so I hope thats enough to make them wanting it.

No news about the one we had deal about first of all.  They are still idiots.  We havent bothered to argue with them a week, because we dont know yet how much money we will have left after negotiting with other alternatives, who we dont have fully deals with  yet  But as it seem now we will get a purchase EARLIER with the mess with wrong lot number, than with the idiots we had a deal with months ago     but they havent fullfilled it.

Today we went to DENR to get new munber for the lot they had messed up by giving same number as an other lot had allready.
They HAVE the survey and ot maps of whole that baranggay, so they just needed to renummer the one they had numbered wrong by coordinates of corner stones are KNOWN, but "of course" they had to make it complicated          Instead of just look in the notes and change number at the OBVIOUS wrong numbered (=Other lots there are in number order) we have to WAIT for a engineere to GO there and they are buzy...   And at the order of what to check they wrote the WRONG lot number!!!   so it woiuldnt suprice me if they will check the OTHER CORRECT lot...      
(I told my business partner he and owner need to go back to DENR and make SURE correct lot will be checked.)

coach53 wrote:

Today we went to DENR to get new munber for the lot they had messed up by giving same number as an other lot had allready.
They HAVE the survey and ot maps of whole that baranggay, so they just needed to renummer the one they had numbered wrong by coordinates of corner stones are KNOWN, but "of course" they had to make it complicated          Instead of just look in the notes and change number at the OBVIOUS wrong numbered (=Other lots there are in number order) we have to WAIT for a engineere to GO there and they are buzy...   And at the order of what to check they wrote the WRONG lot number!!!   so it woiuldnt suprice me if they will check the OTHER CORRECT lot...      
(I told my business partner he and owner need to go back to DENR and make SURE correct lot will be checked.)

I admire your patience as well as perseverance coach. Slowly the wheels turn. well done.

Cheers, Steve.

test

Whats up - I can send test, but I cant send anwer, which is ON topic   

Walls have ears?

Don't start a legal business in the Philippines

Okieboy wrote:

Don't start a legal business in the Philippines

Do you mean instead start an ILLEGAL business and risk jail/deportation  ?   

Maybe he meant wear your shades.
Its all "shady" here if you ask me.

YIPPIE!   This week we finaly got the business registration done.  Business center info say whole will take 30 MINUTES but it took  5 MONTHS.  Perhaps it helped we told BIR recently
-We cant pay tax if we dont get the business registration...
Then we got it the day after         But it can have been a coincidence, because they had told they expected it from province capital around now.

Good timing     by this week seller to the first business we buy got documents compleete in order, so we bought that business yesterday   
Now we "only" need to wait additional 3 - 4 months     or so THEY say to get the special permits needed for this type of business to start working proper.   (We cant apply before we have got the purchase notarised so we couldnt make it in advance.)

The big mess with officials had put SAME lot number at TWO lots of which the one we are buying was the wrong one, most steps of the solving is done, so perhaps we can buy that too in a few weeks.

A third we skiped.  It was to much mess.

One of four owners to a fourth business hasnt decided yet if she want to sell. We want that too if we can agree about price and payment turms because we can become a bit short of money to buy that too, and I aim at not needing to send  any more money.  We want all three because they are perfect located in a triangöe beside each other so the location can make we can make it extra effective by synnery effects by they can be coordinated good by the location. 
(When we get money from income from these, then we aim at buying "all" east of them        if they have got their documents in order then.  Thats complicated, so I expect we have 4 -  5 years to earn before thats done.)

After we have got them in east , then I will be satisfied - perhaps   
(Depending of too how much the team we have allready can handle.  They dont know  of the steps of process which I introduce, but they are known good at the steps common in Phils.)

Slowly slowly, well done Coach, you are getting there.

Cheers, Steve.

Yes Coach I hear you load and clear & am very glad you've made such impressive progress.
Till now only you know the product/s you intend to manufacture/pricing/sale & where your local/foreign markets are.
Look forward to hearing about your next endeavour & wish you the very best.

bigpearl wrote:

Slowly slowly, well done Coach, you are getting there. .

Yes. Extreemöy slow bothering my patience.
Im used to get things done much faster than normal in WESTERN countries .
(E g when I started a business in Sweden I reached common after 2 years allready the 4th month.  But that depended of the main competitor had messed up the bigest posible customer so thwy kind of threw the work at me when I went there   
An in a "business consulting" assignment  I turned crisis  by big mess to good functioning in only  six month.)
In Phils I have to be happy if we have al  permits  be allowed to start within a year          Now we can only start inventory and more detailed planning how to solve thins AFTER we have got permit o realy get anything done...

manwonder wrote:

Yes Coach I hear you load and clear & am very glad you've made such impressive progress.
Till now only you know the product/s you intend to manufacture/pricing/sale & where your local/foreign markets are.
Look forward to hearing about your next endeavour & wish you the very best.

I tel some things fuzzy, because I dont want anyone to start compeeiting in the BUYING of the businesss we want   
while it isnt any big problem concerning geting competitors in production, because Phils are rather short of such products.   (At least before covid. Statistics during covid have much data missing.) And I expect we can become among the most effective       I mean in Phils. I suppouse we never can reach the effectivity some companies have in some other countries because they dont have the many permit demands problems.  (Around 40 compared to  3 in Sweden.) But on the other hand Phils have much lower labour costs so perhaps we can beat them in the long run anyway        Although we dont need to beat  companies in other countries to get good enough results.

coach53 wrote:

Today we went to DENR to get new munber for the lot they had messed up by giving same number as an other lot had allready.
They HAVE the survey and ot maps of whole that baranggay, so they just needed to renummer the one they had numbered wrong by coordinates of corner stones are KNOWN, but "of course" they had to make it complicated          Instead of just look in the notes and change number at the OBVIOUS wrong numbered (=Other lots there are in number order) we have to WAIT for a engineere to GO there and they are buzy...   And at the order of what to check they wrote the WRONG lot number!!!   so it woiuldnt suprice me if they will check the OTHER CORRECT lot...      
(I told my business partner he and owner need to go back to DENR and make SURE correct lot will be checked.)

Yes they HAVE the survey but they don't HAVE common sense. 

manwonder wrote:

Maybe he meant wear your shades.
Its all "shady" here if you ask me.

Shady, corrupt, the boundary between legal and illegal behaviour is obtuse to say the least but I honestly think that most (not all) Filipinos are amoral (no not immoral) i.e they just cannot conceive of the difference. But you can be sure that they will quote you what the Bible says verbatim.

it seams so hard and a waste  of time

bob hill wrote:

it seams so hard and a waste  of time

Well. No limit beside by how big and many businesses having money to buy
AND it can add jobs to poor Filipinos in poor regions.

And after its up and running with the errors corrected, then it will be much easier   - I hope   

One YIPPIE more - perhaps   
Today we got tip of a big order of our SECONDARY product, which we had planned to sell just in Phils,
but I got told today by a mutual friend to us and the one, who want to buy a lot for exportt, who is abroad geting contracts now.  Unclear yet how fast he has to deliver. Can be 20 percent higher pay than the normal local.  Unclear if we can be ready in time though by we have to wait for two more permits      It would have been no chance if it would have been the main product, because it will take years I expect to get that in order corrected, but this secondary is much simpler and we had planned to make that rather soon anyway to start get some income.  But the big income will be from the main product, this secondary is more about covering the costs correcting the errors, old owners have made, until we get income from the main product.

You are fishing in a sewer. Formal business there is like pissing up a rope. Anyone and everyone will be ripping you off. Take your marbles and then go elsewhere regardless of what you might think is a good plan. The deck is stacked against you. They don't want a hand up just a handout. Sad but true

Some people never learn..

Peter Crawford wrote:

You are fishing in a sewer. Formal business there is like pissing up a rope. Anyone and everyone will be ripping you off. Take your marbles and then go elsewhere regardless of what you might think is a good plan.

Left to eee if you will be right.
I know of foreignrs, who have succeeded in Phils in business within both manufactory,  trade and agriculture.  Two of them I know personaly.

Peter Crawford wrote:

The deck is stacked against you.

Thats a part of the reason I try     because I ike "imposible" challenges.   I have managed to do "impossibe" things before e g al "experts" concerning Russia said it was imposible (20 years ago) but I even managed to start a FLAT organiced business there for a client.

Peter Crawford wrote:

The deck is stacked against you. They don't want a hand up just a handout. Sad but true

Thats why I  work with tribe people.  In averag they are much different from  Filipinos.  I found them through an American businssman, who had used their services more than once and was very satisfied.  As he said  "They dont  drink, they dont amböe, they work."  And they follow instructions and WANT to learn.  Although their leader had good knowledge before we got contact, Im just  compleete it some.
Im writing a manual  about the step they dont know any good, for the leader to read and discus with me before that work step start so Im sure he has understood correct. (So far he has asked suiting questions which is a good sign     We arent allowed to do that step before we get two more  permits anyway, but next week they wil,  start the construction improvement work we decided today.  /Roughly. He know more about such consruction than I so I just decided what to include and cost allowed and leave the details to him. So ar e has been more kuripot with my money tan I have been myself         I have told him we have to act very economical until we start earning from the main product.  After that we can become spenders        I have promised  them high bohnuses if we succeed, I  estimated it to become an exra million to them.

I have the filosophy to pay good to people who work good (in their messure) which has functioned good both in Sweden and Russia  And ASK employees for their oppinions so they feel noticed. And when seen tthey think good, tthen delegate some of the detail decisions to them.  And let them decide work hours themselves as long as they are done fast enough.  (I dnt bother how many hours they are at workl, I bother how much they get DONE.) Motivated employees work better which make better reputatioin for the business. Many bosses dont seem to understand that!..   

Soon after we finaly got the business registered and got the first buy in order,
officials screw up an other thing. Not related to our business at all, but it concern us anyway by they have hallted ALL aprovings of the for us left to get special permit until after they have solved that mess OTHERS made. 
Basicly easy for them to solve with sure less than a week effective work, but nothing is done easy or effective in public ofices in Phils   

It will be solved sometime, but probably to slow  to get time for us to make the secondary product for export in time to when the exporter need them.  But thats the low earning secondary product anyway mainly planned to make just to add a bit income to cover costs until the big earnings of the main product start coming.

We will buy a second business soon anyway, because thats worth so very much more than the asked price,
((but we will perhaps put the third purchase on hold because probably not that much  bargain as the second.  The second is agreed just waiting for last document, while the third hasnt even the owners agreed what price to ask from us, which they are slow at.))

But shame to them who give up       As I told, I like challenges.

I really wish they had a system where they did things here.

Maybe things get lost in translation? or some employee just lack the proper training or competence.

Instead each person you ask have a different procedure. 1 say this, 2 say that, you follow 1 and find that you did it wrong. You follow 2 and tell you 1 is the right way.

I guess that's why "runners" are so popular here. It's a mess

frankanderson wrote:

I really wish they had a system where they did things here.

Maybe things get lost in translation? or some employee just lack the proper training or competence.

Instead each person you ask have a different procedure. 1 say this, 2 say that, you follow 1 and find that you did it wrong. You follow 2 and tell you 1 is the right way.

I guess that's why "runners" are so popular here. It's a mess

Not depending of language because its my Filipino business partner, who has handled all.
Except when we got stucked by DTI registration system couldnt function by it was done wrong, and no one of the suppoused solvers  did solve it in long time. Then I got involved and found a developer, who made the needed adjustments in a few hours        We had given exact same info to the Customer service  both local and central, but they did nothing...

Registration suppoused to take 30 minutes, took five months depending of I dont know what     Many different errors.   Sure some depend of missing knowledge of things handlers are suppoused to know. And some things they send to head office, even things which are suppoused to be handled local.

Yes some handlers have just forward us instead of doing things themselves, but that was mainly about other things than the registration, as geting info about other things. Info about registration process I had allready before we started that, e g the info saying whole will take 30 minutes      Some such other info we havent got still ..

Beside the not useable online  DTI registration , the most remarkable has been BIR dont give a registration number direct.  It took 2 months!!! because they waited at special prints to be done.

New chapter of mess 
The land, which DENR has given wrong lot number, which belong to the lots around with AaD and Tax declaration, the new number they registered as Timberland!!!  Iiiii   

If DENR dont correct it, it cant be owned by other than the government (except the using right) so then we dont want it.  I m,ean without its corrected.  Not easy to make Filipinos admit errors they make      It was less hard when we made them give it a new lot number, but that number had someone ELSE done      Left to see if we can get this solved.

There are others such businesses for sale, but none even close to that perfect located to the one we have  bougt allready and the one we are planning to buy, because they are located adjustend.  Distance between both add internal transport costs and become much harder to guard, would need an EXTRA guard if elsewhere.,  I dont believve DENR would agree to pay these extra costs 

So it will be a new round with DENR...

In an other topic was mensioned public service handlers not allways know what they are suppoused to know.

We have got business registration and basic permits, but we need special extra permit. When we have tried to get that different handlers have told very diferent in this order:
1. You need to make a transformation of one of the documents you have.
2. When we went to do that:  No you cant (because of an issue OTHERS had made in that barangay and the oficials hadnt solve it in 2 years!)
3. Two weeks ago we started checking that where they were suppoused to have solved it and we have found the names of them. Yesterday we went there to start asking for them embarrassing questions     why it isnt solved, and then we got told its solved!!!   
4. So today we went to apply to the permit. Today they told we can only apply to get pernit to make TINY production each time - less than a Mini pickup load!!!  And after each turn is done, we can apply to NEXT tiny turn...!!!      Ridicilous!      We have capacity to make CONTAINER loads and have contact with a customer wanting big amounts for export...

So now we are back at p2-3     

Wow it looks like Coach 53 needs a drink, a xanax, and maybe a large amount of sedatives. Your miserable existence will not project onto the people that like their lives here. Maybe you should spend more time tending to your business and less time complaining on open forums? Just a thought.

captdcc62 wrote:

Wow it looks like Coach 53 needs a drink, a xanax, and maybe a large amount of sedatives. Your miserable existence will not project onto the people that like their lives here. Maybe you should spend more time tending to your business and less time complaining on open forums? Just a thought.

Dont you any better thought than that?   
I have NEVER needed neither drink nor xanax in any amount at all, such are for weaklings.
You think I better spend more time tending to my business, when we arent allowed to start still by oficials many mess ups.  Concerning production running preparatations we had them DONE allready a half year ago, waiting to be allowed to start...

I'm curious. Is there a Swedish word for 'Dilettant' ? Coach I just hope you avoid launching an online English language course business - if you do you're really going to have to work on the syntax.

Lotus Eater wrote:

I'm curious. Is there a Swedish word for 'Dilettant' ?.

Its same in Swedish. Do you try to insinuate me being one?     If so its same crap level as some other insinuations against me... 
E g have you heared of any star football player being that?     (I were good enough to play in the10th best team in Sweden back then.)

My first employment was as machine handler, but the bosses saw soon I were leader materail allready during extra work during high school and used me as group leader when it was extra much work and they saw I got things done much faster than the other groups.  (Fifty percent faster inspite I let my guys take a break double as often as normal.)  And direct after hgh school I they full time emloyed me to handle mashines, but direct they offered me a long time substitute work as Planning boss in that 4th bigest such company in Sweden.  After that back to machine handler where I were three times faster than the others at one of the mashines and never less than 2nd in any of them..  (They used me "everywhere" depending of where it was most needed by I learned fast and coulld all except selling so lucky they never did put me at such   
When I started own distribution business (70 - 114 employees)  I handled the physical sorthing and preparings of drivers routes myself and took 1-2 of the drivers routes normaly.  When it was extra bad weather I took the worst outdoor jobs myself, to show I didnt demand more from the employees than  from myself 

Perhaps count website and software production myself too, but such I did mainly as boss.

Actualy the only job type I were bad at - before I got injuried - was selling. because I found it to booring, and I dont believe I would have been a good surgeant neither   

Lotus Eater wrote:

Coach I just hope you avoid launching an online English language course business - if you do you're really going to have to work on the syntax.

Of some reason when stupid people  dont have any good argument, then its common people with English as FIRST langauge complain at my English, while when I used in my WORK with Englishmen, Americans and Irishmen NONE of them had problem with my English...
Btw how is your Spanish, Swedish, Norwegian and German?     People with English as first langauge dont have reputation having good diversified language skill...

And I remind you of according to an university made research its the top bosses who write MOST errors, because we bother about whats important, if not we wouldnt be any good top bosses...     And when we find it important we can leave the text correctings to an employee 
(Im semiretired so I have time NOW to write in forums, but I WOULDNT have had time for that if I would have been in Phils starting up family and businesses      I mean AFTER WAITING at the officials have solved THEIR mess  so we get allowed to start the production...