Moving to Germany from US with older kids advice.

There is a duty for kids to go to school and for the public school system to provide for them. You contact the local school according to your place of residency. One cannot say one region is better than another. One can only generalize that in larger municipalities there are likely more resources and options. Likely the first school year will be in a program focusing on language and integration.

The bottom line is that they have to learn German; no school is going to set up a parallel system to coddle non-German speakers. And getting in to Gymnasium is merit based according to aptitude; there is no guaranteeing such results. But it is often possible for pupils to transfer at a later date if they then qualify. The best thing you can do in the meantime is to facilitate their learning German as well as possible so they hit the ground running. This takes motivation and discipline which is hard for a child sitting in the States when it is all abstract. There are books and online material but courses or even better a private tutor is more optimal.

Thought I would also bring up that your profile says you are intending to move to France rather than Germany. Maybe you want to change that to avoid confusion.

Excellent post by Tom above!
I only want to add: Many public schools offer special classes ("Förderklasse") in which non-German kids are brought up to speed (not only in the language) to join normal classes later. You should contact the "Schulamt" of your intended location to find out which schools offer it. At the age of your kids, the "Förderklasse" will likely take a year - meaning they will then enter normal classes with kids a year younger than them. Since learning a language and adapting to a new environment are valuable skills, I would not consider this a year lost.
Also, as Tom already hinted, you should not worry too much about them entering a "Gymnasium" (which is the kind of secondary school leading to university access): The German system offers many possibilities to chance stream or enter university by other means - it's more important that your kids get the support and level of classes best for them now!

Remark: Since basically all lessons are done remotely at the moment, you may ask at the school(s) of your choice whether your kids could already attend some classes before the move, to get used to the language, methods and classmates. It would also help you understand whether it is suitable for them and then make the right choices.

Thank you TominStuttgart and beppi for your very informative reply. I have a few more specific questions.
How would the Schulamt determine where to place my 13 year old since she's past the "selection" age? Would they give her an assessment test, or German language test? Or is she going to be automadticatially placed in Hauptschule because of her language skills? Do I have a choice as a parent or no?

Is there a website where I can find out statistics/details about German public schools similar to greatschools.org and niche.com?

Are  there any private schools that are "affordable"? For example, I understand that some Waldorf schools base their tuition charges on parent's income. Are there any other somewhat similar options in the private school sector?

Thank you

CAfam wrote:

How would the Schulamt determine where to place my 13 year old since she's past the "selection" age? Would they give her an assessment test, or German language test? Or is she going to be automadticatially placed in Hauptschule because of her language skills? Do I have a choice as a parent or no?

There would probably be a placement test - but after the "Förderklasse" year (otherwise your kid would be automatically disadvantaged). Please ask about this at the Schulamt of your target location. The general philosophy is giving each kid the level of challenge and support it needs to perform best.
You can, as parent, override the Schulamt's assessment and, if you then find a Gymnasium willing to take your kid (they are not obliged to in this case), register him/her there. But it can be demotivating to fail in a stream he/she cannot follow, and many kids perform better in a lower stream and work their way up (the system is permeable in both directions).

CAfam wrote:

Is there a website where I can find out statistics/details about German public schools similar to [link under review] and [link under review]?

We can't see the link, sorry.

CAfam wrote:

Are  there any private schools that are "affordable"? For example, I understand that some Waldorf schools base their tuition charges on parent's income. Are there any other somewhat similar options in the private school sector?

Waldorf schools use their own, very specific methods based on their slightly esoteric worldview (which I personally do not like). They do not lead to university access - to achieve that, your kid would have to make the (difficult) change to a mainstream school in later years.
There might be some church-run private schools that charge less. Again, the Schulamt can help you (they are in charge of overseeing all schools, private and public).

I would mention that Waldorf Schools also teach in German and one can go there through the 12th grade but then need to do an extra year to prepare to do the Abi exam which allows one to go to University. This is a parallel route than attending Gymnasium. I am posting a link below that describes this situation (article in German only).

https://www.abizeitung-druckstdu.de/mag … orfschule/

And while the Waldorf pedagogy doesn’t appeal to everyone, some kids thrive there. My stepson went to a Waldorf school for 6 years before we changed cities and then he attended Gymnasium where he was a standout pupil and well ahead of his class in math. I don’t exactly know how the cost was calculated but it was based on income.

Education is a matter of the individual state, so we have 16 different school systems.

How do you not yet know which state you will move to? If it's somehow purely a matter of personal preference, what are your priorities/options?

Not every school is equipped with special language classes for foreign children (most can't dream of having the staff for that!). Very often it's a matter of sink or swim and/or starting out in a lower grade than would be expected for their age.

When we moved back to Germany from Scotland, my younger daughter had to start over in first grade, even though we had a few years of German Saturday school under our belt and had tried to keep German alive in the home but the school systems and expectations were so different that this was probably the best way to do it.

My older daughter was supposed to start 10th grade and was put in 9th, because coming from outside Germany, the school could not just decide on their own which grade to put her in. Her foreign report card from 9th grade in Scotland would have had to be officially recognized as equivalent by the state school authority, which would have taken most of the school year, so we decided to put it down to experience and give her time to get used to the school system and language again before she had to sit 10th grade exams.

Neither school had special classes for children moving to Germany from abroad.

Also, the traditional Gymnasium is not the only and often not even the best alternative for getting an Abitur.

Thank you ALKB for your insightful reply. Looking back at your older daughter's school experience how would you do things different? I gather from your answer that you're happy now with the process/outcome of the foreign student integration, but at the time when you moved back to DE you were not. Would it be helpful if I started the process of officially recognizing the school transfers ahead of time? Did your daughter had to take a German language assessment test before being placed in school? Would the school allow her to use an app that automatically translates live for her in class? Did you have to use additional resources to prepare her for the 10th grade exams, like tutoring or exam prep center? What is the best alternative for getting the Abitur? Do university candidates that do not take the traditional Gymnasium route have more difficulty in being accepted to the University of their choice?

Thank you beppi for the detailed answer. The websites that I listed are great schools dot org and niche dot com. They provide detailed info about every school in US, with ratings, statistics, curriculum, and parents and students personal opinions about the school.
I was hoping that DE also has a similar site where I can read more about each school, especially figuring out which ones have the "Förderklasse". Also I still don't understand if the "Förderklasse"s are offered at the local school campus, or is it a separate school where all the foreign students from the area go to study German? After completing the "Förderklasse" who decides and on what basis which school does the child qualifies for? Is there another assessment test? Does the teacher decides? Is Schulamt an equivalent to a school councilor, and do you have a choice of who is your Schulamt?

Thank you TominStuttgart for explaining the Waldorf schooling options. Did your stepson have any difficulties transferring from Waldorf to the Gymnasium? Did he have to take any placement tests? Did any Gymnasiums rejected his application? Was his giftedness in mathematics the deciding factor in his acceptance to a Gymnasium? Does the German school system have special programs for students that are gifted in math, even if they're not that good in other subjects, like German?

CAfam wrote:

Thank you beppi for the detailed answer. The websites that I listed are great schools dot org and niche dot com. They provide detailed info about every school in US, with ratings, statistics, curriculum, and parents and students personal opinions about the school.

Such rankings are frowned upon and the authorities in Germany take care to make sure that all schools are at a similar level.

CAfam wrote:

Also I still don't understand if the "Förderklasse"s are offered at the local school campus, or is it a separate school where all the foreign students from the area go to study German?

In the schools I know about (all in Stuttgart area), the Förderklassen are in the normal school building where other students also learn, but I don't know if this is the case everywhere. For some time after the 2015 refugee wave the arrangements were different, purely for space reasons.

CAfam wrote:

After completing the "Förderklasse" who decides and on what basis which school does the child qualifies for? Is there another assessment test? Does the teacher decides?

I am not sure, but would expect this to be decided by parents and teachers together.

CAfam wrote:

Is Schulamt an equivalent to a school councilor, and do you have a choice of who is your Schulamt?

The Schulamt is the local (town/city) authority in charge of overseeing all schools. You could only change by moving. But I have never heard of any such case - and cannot imagine a reason to do that.
I think you are over-exited about the topic. Relax and just send your kid to the nearest public school - this is what most people here do!

CAfam wrote:

Thank you TominStuttgart for explaining the Waldorf schooling options. Did your stepson have any difficulties transferring from Waldorf to the Gymnasium? Did he have to take any placement tests? Did any Gymnasiums rejected his application? Was his giftedness in mathematics the deciding factor in his acceptance to a Gymnasium? Does the German school system have special programs for students that are gifted in math, even if they're not that good in other subjects, like German?

I honestly don't remember if he specifically had to take any placement tests or if they just looked at his grades and curriculum. He had zero trouble. The funny thing is that many assume that Waldorf kids have not been pushed and thus learned as well so they were surprised to see he was ahead of rather than behind many of his fellow pupils at Gymnasium.

And one simply goes to the closest school; its not a matter of applying to various ones. But it is possible that particular schools might have special programs not offered at others and on this basis they go to a school that is not the closest. But he was accommodated academically well enough without needing to look for another school. Don't expect such special considerations unless a child is either a prodigy or has specific disabilities that have to be contended with.

Like Beppi mentioned; I think you are over thinking this whole subject. One you have moved you will start dealing with the local school authorities and they will get you sorted out as best is possible.

In one of your posts you brought up the idea of being in normal classes and relying on a translation devise. Sorry but that sounds very unlikely for a number of reasons. Kids will have to learn German sooner or later, and best sooner, to be in the German public school system - and as mentioned, for  most private alternatives as well.

I am happy with the route we took, as it allowed my older daughter to take things slowly and to adjust. It was just that the first few months were stressful - new requirements seemed to crop up everywhere until we decided to simply leave it be.

My older daughter is a native German speaker, but before we moved back to Germany after six years in Scotland (and other places before that), she only had third grade in Berlin, all other schooling was in schools that taught in English.

She didn't need any additional tutoring.

She did not need any language assistance to understand or be understood, but she still struggles a bit with capitalization rules in German spelling.

The classic Gymnasium can be prestigious, but in the end, a Gymnasium that is well-known in a certain town or part of town and that all parents want their children to get into, will be a non-entity anywhere else. An Abitur is an Abitur, no matter which school or school type one attended. The grades are important, not the name of the school on top of the certificate.

Depending on the state and the local school system, there are numerous ways of getting an Abitur. Some schools also do Abitur after 12 and some after 13 years.

possibilities are Gymnasium, Gesamtschule, Oberstufenzentrum (OSZ), just sitting the exams without attending school (hard!!!), etc.

My older daughter attends a 'berufliches Gymnasium' at an Oberstufenzentrum and she loves it. She will receive a completely regular Abitur just like from any other Gymnasium, only that the OSZ has a social emphasis, so she has to take psychology and pedagogy in addition to the usual classes. She was also accepted at an English/German bilingual OSZ with an emphasis in business and law and was really torn between going to a school that would likely have more students with an international biography and one she instantly felt connected to (her choice was excellent, she has found great friends at her school).

Other states will do things differently.
In Brandenburg for instance, pupils have to go to some form of school until age 18 - if they leave regular school after 10th grade and can't find an apprenticeship that comes with Berufsschule, they have to enroll in a apprenticeship prep class or similar - while in Berlin, obligation to attend school ends after 10 school years, no matter whether the pupil is 15 or 18 at the time.

Then there is also Fachabitur, which also has several pathways, but access to university is restricted to certain programs. A friend of my daughter's is doing the Fachabitur version of what my daughter is doing. She goes to school three days a week and does an internship for two days a week. After two years she will sit her exams. Unlike my daughter, who will be able to apply to any university program (she wants to study IT), her friend will only be able to study subjects that are in the social sector.

Other schools that offer Fachabitur are solely school-based, five days a week.

What I am saying is, especially if the move to Germany is long term, don't beat yourself up if schooling takes a little while longer or takes a few winding turns until you find what's right for your child.

ALKB wrote:

I am happy with the route we took, as it allowed my older daughter to take things slowly and to adjust. It was just that the first few months were stressful - new requirements seemed to crop up everywhere until we decided to simply leave it be.

What I am saying is, especially if the move to Germany is long term, don't beat yourself up if schooling takes a little while longer or takes a few winding turns until you find what's right for your child.

Very informative post.

And I quote these passages since it addresses what I see as a recurring issue. Many people coming to Germany seem to focus on the short term in light of schooling; obsessed that their kids progression should be as if they were at home. If only in Germany for a year or two then this might be a priority over learning the language and things like a English teaching international school might make sense.

Otherwise, it is almost always best to let them catch up in the German language first even if they lose a year academically. Parents should focus on preparing the kids by getting their German up to as high a standard as possible before arriving rather than trying to figure out a way that their kids can somehow avoid learning the language or that it will have a cost.

CAfam wrote:

Would it be helpful if I started the process of officially recognizing the school transfers ahead of time? What is the best alternative for getting the Abitur?

Sorry, I overlooked this one.

You shouldn't have an issue with that, I should have specified that this only applies to years where exams are taken that lead to a school leaving certificate.

In Berlin and Brandenburg this is:

10th grade for MSA/FOR/FORQ (because, why should we stick with Hauptschulabschluss, Realschulabschluss, Abitur, if every state can call their ten year certificate a million different things that nobody outside that state will have any clue about?)

and 12th/13th grade depending on school for Abitur.

But check the website of the school authority for the city or Landkreis you will be living in. As I said, we have 16 different approaches to schooling.


Also, I forgot to mention, Berlin OSZs also often have 4-year programs that lead to a dual qualification: regular Abitur + a vocational qualification that others achieve after a 3 year apprenticeship. It's a lot of work, though.