Gypsies, crime situation in general?

markolaukas wrote:

Hi all! I am interested of 1 house in Mezőcsát area. Is It a good area to relocate as expat,  english speaking Finn? What about gypsies? Is there a real problem with them? Thank you in advance!

Never heard of that place. 

It looks a long way from anywhere worth spending time.

If you don't speak Hungarian, you might find it isolated.

never heard about that town . maybe I can suggest Southern Hungary near Szeged . safe and free of any unpleasant people or migrants . I have nice property for you . You can come and see . Lots of Germans , Dutch  most of them English speakers . Going together i n local pubs or make barbecue for friends . If You are interested send me email on ***

Found this article in hungarian upon a quick googling: http://valasz.hu/reflektor/magyarorszag … epe-57744/

Google translate does a good job with a relevant paragraph:

The other typical type is the gypsy settlement in villages and small towns. In the north-eastern counties and in the Great Plain, most of the settlements have gypsy lines, but it happens that only the worst-off part of the local Gypsies live in these streets, and the upward-moving families have moved to better neighborhoods. Gypsy settlements are always located on the outskirts of the city and village, and consist partly of "Cs category" (reduced comfort) equatorial houses built in the 1970s, partly of "socpolos" houses of the last twenty years. Due to the growth of the settlement, after a while the whole town may tip over into the ghettoizing category, this is expected, for example, in Mezőcsát, where a third of the population (1,900 people) live in five segregated settlements. 70 percent of Tiszabura’s residents (2,000 people) live in four almost contiguous ghettos - here the turnaround has already taken place.

Gypsies are the naggers (as in the people who nag you  ) of Eastern Europe. (Hungary is E-EU culturally...)

I always thought Hungarians were quite insistently Central European.

zif wrote:

I always thought Hungarians were quite insistently Central European.

Can you elaborate?  What do you mean by "insistently Central European"?

BTW, I am wondering about the OP's motives - mentioning the Roma specifically in the context of crime rates. And a single posting.

Central Europe leaning to the East

SimCityAT wrote:

[img align=C]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/EU-Hungary.svg/800px-EU-Hungary.svg.png[/url]

Central Europe leaning to the East

Hmmm....not sure about that phrase as it doesn't connect (for me) for the political attitudes currently in vogue.  I'd have thought that is insistently Eastern (i.e.  Russian and China).   Austria is Central Europe and it's not looking East (not as far as I know).   Europe is supposed to stop at the Urals or the Bosphrous Strait.

fluffy2560 wrote:

markolaukas wrote:

Hi all! I am interested of 1 house in Mezőcsát area. Is It a good area to relocate as expat,  english speaking Finn? What about gypsies? Is there a real problem with them? Thank you in advance!

Never heard of that place. 

It looks a long way from anywhere worth spending time.

If you don't speak Hungarian, you might find it isolated.

Over say the last 20 odd years we've had to pass on many so-called, "good deals" in Hungary.
My husband was born and raised in Hungary so language isn't the issue.
He still often checks out properties in Hungary online on HU web pages.
Still deals to be found.
The problem is complicated though.
Yes, some villages have been over run by a certain ethnic group.
Poor Hungarians are stuck there since their property values went down so much.
They may take just about any price to get outta town.
One strory I'll share.
20 years back while renting my SIL's house in Erd for 6 months we ran into a plumbling issue.
The water main line needed to be changed out.
The regualr handy man everyone arund trusted was over boked with jobs, we needed someone t dig a very long trench a few feet deep frm the house to the road.
The plumber had a helper  for these sorts of jobs but they also were super backed up with jobs.
My husband was in his early 50's and my SIL in her late 50's.
We drove in Erd and I noticed a group of Gypsies digging up the road with hand shovles, some sort of city job.
I asked my husband why don't we ask them to dig for us too?
He went balistic on me.
Told me to not even suggest such a thing, what would the neighbors say ? Another thing he said was you never invite trouble into your house. Erd is sort of a middle class area too.
My SIL and husband spent about 3 long hot days digging themselves rather then ask these men to help them out . It wasn't about money it was about safety and not asking for a hassle.
OK, another strange tale.
Had a freind living here in HU from the UK.
Their friend was also from the UK and had bought a decent home in Zala county.
The women had many Gypsy neighbors who were nice enough with her but whenever she traveled to the UK she came home to a nightamre.
Several people decided they would just stay in her home, sleep there, use her washer and whatever just because her things were better then their's were.
This person moved away from HU but perhaps having uninvited guests all the time forced her to move away?
There are many horror tales online about people traveling and coming home to find things missing, fences and copper pipes ect.
As they say in real estate, location, location, location.

All I know is what my Hungarian textbook teaches me:

"Magyarország szerintünk Közép-Europában fekszik."

"From our point of view Hungary is situated in central Europe."

It's a point that's insistently repeated several times, so I've just assumed it's potentially insulting to lob Hungary with Romania, Ukraine and other Eastern European countries.

Geographically and "officially" HU is Central Europe. And I would not suggest to any obvious foreigner to dispute that with hungarians, could be interpreted the wrong way. But among us most of us would nod to the suggestion that culturally we're closer to Eastern Europe...

atomheart wrote:

Geographically and "officially" HU is Central Europe. And I would not suggest to any obvious foreigner to dispute that with Hungarians, could be interpreted the wrong way. But among us most of us would nod to the suggestion that culturally we're closer to Eastern Europe...

I've always thought of HU as Eastern Europe myself.  It's definitely not Western Europe which stops at the Austrian-Hungarian border.  In fact, I would say it's anywhere where the Western most former Soviet satellites were located (even Romania and Bulgaria would be Eastern Europe).  Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, Russia and Moldova etc I am not sure what to describe them as - perhaps still Eastern Europe.  Keep going until one hits the Urals.     

I don't think there really is a Central Europe or if there is, it's notional.  The timezone is CET - Central Europe Time but that's even used as far as Spain.

Come to the Balaton area! It is really safe there.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I don't think there really is a Central Europe or if there is, it's notional.

There are actually far more historical and cultural definitions of what is "central Europe" :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe

than "eastern Europe":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe

As from the above:

there are "almost as many definitions of Eastern Europe as there are scholars of the region"

So your understanding may be backwards..... even if a scholar. ;-)

Livia Kretsch wrote:

Come to the Balaton area! It is really safe there.

And property prices are much higher.

radiumpotato wrote:

...
So your understanding may be backwards..... even if a scholar. ;-)

I wouldn't be surprised.

Even if one invested at Balaton, chances are the biggest criminals would be your neighbors...
White collar crime might not be as physically dangerous then a st. mugging but it's a crime none the less.
I can't even really share how many people we knew/know who made a killing( in some cases are real killings, know of 3 for sure, the HU grapevine  was the info source and I know who the players were)in the US with white collar scams that they got away with who are now flying high on the hog here in HU.
Some got caught but they had already invested in property here in HU and put the homes in family members names ect.
I'm never impressed with wealth, no one gets rich by their own hard work, well guess there is that rare case or two.
I actaully would love to meet anyone who did it on their own without someone else slaving away for wages under them.

Gypsies I gather have long been stigmatized in Hungary. Is that changing: do young people feel. differently? Are there gypsies in prominent public positions: politics or the arts, for example?

zif wrote:

Gypsies I gather have long been stigmatized in Hungary. Is that changing: do young people feel. differently? Are there gypsies in prominent public positions: politics or the arts, for example?

There may be NGO programmes like that but as far as I know the government does little. 

Most ordinary people stereotype them for any number of reasons - colour, job, speech, behaviour,  lifestyle etc.  The Jews have the same kind of thing going on.  Some members of my HU-in laws (and a couple of my UK relatives) seem to have views that would have got applause from Dr Goebbels.  Really strange. 

Bit like anti-vaccination people. When you try and question them, their arguments fall to bits but they still hang on to them.   So they believe some random dudes off YouTube than professionals in the field. Almost buying into a cult.  I suppose the Nazis were a cult.

Personally I don't get it at all. Unless we're all living in a giant conspiracy, simulation or The Matrix.  Might explain some of the nonsense that goes on in the world.

To an American, the lingering anti-Semitism in Europe comes as a surprise. I too recall listening to conversations in which I should have piped up and said, "Well, Hitler did have his faults, you know."

In Hungary in particular, that Soros Last Laugh "Nevessen a Végén" poster just seemed designed to incite hatred.

zif wrote:

Gypsies I gather have long been stigmatized in Hungary. Is that changing: do young people feel. differently? Are there gypsies in prominent public positions: politics or the arts, for example?

I can't say what young Hungarians think about anything.
Most are always looking at their cell phones in public and don't communicate with anyone.
If I took a wild guess, I'd say they don't think much at all from my limited interactions with them .

Last week we took a bus ride.
It was crowded so I found a single seat and my husband sat up front.
At one stop 2 Gypsy people came aboard each with a baby stroller, not sure if they were traveling together or not.
A women with a back pack and her head in her phone also go on at that stop.
She sat right across from me as the seat had become empty at the last stop.
As this women got on and sat down, the Gypsy women started a long screaming rant directed towards the women next to  me.
She just wouldn't stop ranting and screaming at her.
I didn't notice what happened but I know it was something about her wanting to shove the back pack down her throat.
This ,"racket" kept up until we were almost to our stop.
I stood up to hit the buzzer for the door to open.
I couldn't control my self any longer either, all that noise for so long.
As I hit the buzzer I said out loud, "Let me off this crazy train".
I then decided not to even try to pass near this wild screaming Gypsy women so I monkey barred it back to the last door to exit.
I was grateful the women sitting next to me kept her cool and kept quiet, I'd hate to be stuck in the middle of a fist fight on the bus.
Not exactly behavior to promote yourself or your culture.

zif wrote:

To an American, the lingering anti-Semitism in Europe comes as a surprise. I too recall listening to conversations in which I should have piped up and said, "Well, Hitler did have his faults, you know."

In Hungary in particular, that Soros Last Laugh "Nevessen a Végén" poster just seemed designed to incite hatred.

The Soros thing is just ridiculous.   There are numerous memes on the OV Soros blame game.

Soros has put his money into promoting liberal civil society.  As far as OV is concerned, that makes him a perfect enemy to demonise.   OV is working up to demonising the EU which may lead to HUexit.  Scenarios of a similar nature are playing out in Poland right now.

But that's a classic MO of a lot of these kinds of propaganda - demonise and dehumanise while controlling the media and judiciary.   Just classic playbook.

Most educated people in Hungary don't believe any of it.   As usual people will just leave the country and who can blame them.  One of the supposed definitions of madness is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result each time. 

I can see it playing out in my own country (UK) right now.   Brexit took place, thousands of people left the country, and now you see closures of businesses and empty supermarket shelves due to staff shortages. 

OV is in the same position - declining population due to disatisfyiing policies and rigid immigration except from China and Russia.

Typical HU Soros meme  - click here.  It's an image I cannot get to appear inline here.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....
I was grateful the women sitting next to me kept her cool and kept quiet, I'd hate to be stuck in the middle of a fist fight on the bus.
Not exactly behavior to promote yourself or your culture.

There's way to disable the power of that kind of verbal attack and that's by banding together.   

If the attacker thinks there's backup they might back down when they feel isolated and start to look bonkers/silly.   

If one sees some abuse of someone, then just sitting next to the victim and engaging in conversation as though you're old friends the attack may stop.

Never done it myself but I had conversations with No. 1 Fluffyette about it who is now back on the buses since school restarted.

I had the sense population was declining less because of dissatisfaction as such over politics but more practically because of economics: well-paying jobs and good career prospects are elsewhere in Europe.

zif wrote:

I had the sense population was declining less because of dissatisfaction as such over politics but more practically because of economics: well-paying jobs and good career prospects are elsewhere in Europe.

There are a raft of reasons, not just economics although it's of course it's another dissatisfier.  They might complain about the money (prices are rising rapidly) or the poisonous politics.   

I suppose one could imagine being an atheist in Tehran even if you were well paid.  Or a woman in  Kabul who had a top level job.  Leaving is the only option appears no hope for reform (and replacement of the government).

My view is that increasingly groups of people are becoming marginalised and disenfranchised here. Feelings of oppression, self-censorship and want to go - usually to more liberal countries.   Belief in the government is becoming increasingly irrelevant to people on a day-to-day basis.   

One thing many Hungarians seem to have is a healthy cynicism of authority.  Makes me a tiny bit hopeful.

Interesting. However much folks may dislike OV's politics, it's a personal leadership. He's not going to be around forever and so far as I know he's not setting up a political structure intended to survive himself.

Compare this to countries where there's a party that considers itself permanently in charge. Most pertinently I suppose Hungary under socialist rule. Leaders come and go, but the party remains. At least until it crashes. In that case I can understand fleeing. But I don't see OV's regime at that level.

They do come and go, but in the meantime, they can do a lot of damage and you are back to square one.

zif wrote:

Interesting. However much folks may dislike OV's politics, it's a personal leadership. He's not going to be around forever and so far as I know he's not setting up a political structure intended to survive himself.

Compare this to countries where there's a party that considers itself permanently in charge. Most pertinently I suppose Hungary under socialist rule. Leaders come and go, but the party remains. At least until it crashes. In that case I can understand fleeing. But I don't see OV's regime at that level.

OV intends for his party to rule forever.  If you do a bit of research you'll find references to this in his early post-Communist speeches. 

There's an arrogance in him that no-one else can be trusted with the future of the Hungarian state. It's a megalomania seen in other autocratic leaders.

There's also the question of the kleptocracy - now there's cadre of supporters who have benefited from  the corruption, there's a genuine fear (on their part) that in any change of power, there will be investigations into their role in obtaining unexplained wealth.   

There's a lot of reports around on OV's new house near Hatvanpusta (it's near Felcsut).   Google it to see what's been built.   It's not clear how he can afford it.

There's a new EU prosecutors office with an anti-corruption brief as well - but prosecutions will take place in member states.  Here, the judiciary is  unlikely to do much.

SimCityAT wrote:

They do come and go, but in the meantime, they can do a lot of damage and you are back to square one.

Absolutely.   

In my experience, most progress is made by the private sector.  Governments react and lag on changes.  They can facilitate change but they usually do so in a very limited way and not always the way one expects.

Thing that surprises me is that politicians don't seem to be able to learn from lessons of the past.

One good thing in America is that the President can only serve 2 terms (2 x4 years) I wish a lot of other countries did the same.

SimCityAT wrote:

One good thing in America is that the President can only serve 2 terms (2 x4 years) I wish a lot of other countries did the same.

Yes, indeed.   

US is a good example of how the Supreme Court, Congress/Senate and the President counter balance each other.  The founders didn't expect someone like Donald Trump to front load the SC with right wingers and to have an even split in Congress/Senate.  The abortion debate in Texas is a good example of how it could go wrong.

And as for the UK, looks like Boris is unassailable for the forseeable future.

But if something happens to Orbán tomorrow, who replaces him, in every sense of the word?

It's in the nature of an OV not to groom an OV2. But without an heir and a strong party structure, Orbánism will collapse with Orbán.

zif wrote:

But if something happens to Orbán tomorrow, who replaces him, in every sense of the word?

It's in the nature of an OV not to groom an OV2. But without an heir and a strong party structure, Orbánism will collapse with Orbán.

Yes, all true.  We don't know who could come in and try and carry on the legacy.  He's the most visible.  The Justice Minister is combative. I wouldn't trust her to negotiate her way out of a paper bag.  The others aren't much to talk about either.

OV is overweight and doesn't carry it well - a classic late 50s look.  I suspect he's got poor diet, hypertension and probably type 2 diabetes.  Quite podgy and probably stressed.  He could do with losing 30kg, doing some exercise and laying off the  bad stuff - low carbs, no sugar and no alcohol.  He could buy a dog  and walk it each day.

He's got quite high risk factors and therefore there's always a chance he'll pop off to the great stadium in the sky.  If he has any of those conditions, I'd say he's at risk of stroke, heart attack,  kidney disease etc.

Maybe we'll see him at England vs Hungary tonight, 20.45h.  World Cup qualifiers.  We could get a good look at him now.

You don't have to go that far. Just look at his interview with Tucker Carlson last month. He came across as reasonable, intelligent, charming. And more articulate -- in English -- than Joe Biden. Why shouldn't Hungarians be proud of him?

(Links often don't show here so just search YouTube for Orban Carlson.)

zif wrote:

You don't have to go that far. Just look at his interview with Tucker Carlson last month. He came across as reasonable, intelligent, charming. And more articulate -- in English -- than Joe Biden. Why shouldn't Hungarians be proud of him?

(Links often don't show here so just search YouTube for Orban Carlson.)

The problem with OV is that his policies suck.  It's all the politics of division like Trump.  It's all based upon a power play.   OV is tiring people out here  with his obvious BS.  I'm not going to listen to a Fox News guy give OV a paid propaganda platform.  I've seen bits anyway but I don't think I could stand it.  It's rumoured OV paid Tucker Carlson $250K to do that.

Joe Biden, well, hasn't done so well recently.  There was hope but now I think it's gone. We can see which way he's going.  I listened to his speech the other day and found him rambling and incoherent at times.  I'm sick of hearing about his hero son as the driver for his policies.     NATO allies must be sitting around the table thinking the US is not the partner they thought it was.   In a way, perhaps it's for the best long term to have more independent room to manoeuvre.  At the moment,  maybe one couldn't see Allies supporting the USA against a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. I see that as on the cards.   Biden might let them have it and step away from further interest in the South China Sea.  There will be a lot of unhappy countries around there. 

BTW, Hungary were massacred 4-0 by England in the World Cup qualifier tonight.  As the camera scanned the crowd of blackshirted supporters there a couple of shirtless Hungarians could be seen giving a Nazi salute while singing the national anthem.

Thank God English football fans know how to behave. They're the pride of the nation.

zif wrote:

Thank God English football fans know how to behave. They're the pride of the nation.

English fans are far from perfect.

SimCityAT wrote:

zif wrote:

Thank God English football fans know how to behave. They're the pride of the nation.

English fans are far from perfect.

Too right.

HU has been sanctioned for the racist comments thrown at England players.

I am not surprised by the HU "fans" behaviour.   

According to Mrs F, the racist chants come from O1G supporters.  Not entirely sure about that as O1G's Puskas Akadamie has numerous ethnically diverse players.

Racism has long been a characteristic of some English football fans. Most recently after the Euro loss when Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho and Bukayo Saka missed the penalty kicks.

Point is, to smear a nation based on a few badly behaved lads in a stadium is something of a cheap shot.

zif wrote:

Racism has long been a characteristic of some English football fans. Most recently after the Euro loss when Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho and Bukayo Saka missed the penalty kicks.

Point is, to smear a nation based on a few badly behaved lads in a stadium is something of a cheap shot.

Nah, who's smearing the nation?  Strawman fallacy about the UK fans.  They aren't the subject here.

Anyway, I am not sure I would say it was a few.  It was a very large number.  100s at least.   

It all started when the England team took the knee.  The HU side could have done that as well to show solidarity. 

Obviously there was disappointment in the Euros but it's football and that's the nature of the game.

To me it seems the bad behaviour is being tacitly condoned by the establishment or at least not acted upon.  And calling them lads reduces the seriousness of their offensive behaviour.  The cameras lingered on them a little too long for my liking. 

In any case, UEFA would not have made HU play the next 3 games behind closed doors if it was a one off incident. No smoke without fire etc.