Gypsies, crime situation in general?

Interesting figures HERE

Of course in the context of this thread bringing the Hungarian fans in was an attempt to paint them at a minimum as characteristic of Orbán supporters generally. Let's be honest. It's not like we were really chatting about the game.

And bringing in the hallowed tradition of English sports hooliganism is relevant to demonstrate that fan behavior isn't necessarily representative of a country's culture as a whole.

You previously said:

zif wrote:

To an American, the lingering anti-Semitism in Europe comes as a surprise. I too recall listening to conversations in which I should have piped up and said, "Well, Hitler did have his faults, you know."

In Hungary in particular, that Soros Last Laugh "Nevessen a Végén" poster just seemed designed to incite hatred.

As you imply, hatred is hatred, whether it's Soros or England football players of diverse origins.

It's not a surprise here - we see the posters up. 

And now:

zif wrote:

Of course in the context of this thread bringing the Hungarian fans in was an attempt to paint them at a minimum as characteristic of Orbán supporters generally. Let's be honest. It's not like we were really chatting about the game.

I did say it was opinion of others that these racist guys were O1G supporters.  It wouldn't surprise me if the nationalism (i.e. Nazi salutes in the game) and O1G's policies and election rhetoric were hand maidens.

zif wrote:

And bringing in the hallowed tradition of English sports hooliganism is relevant to demonstrate that fan behavior isn't necessarily representative of a country's culture as a whole.

No-one said it was.   UK has all sorts of problems but replacing a HU contention with UK one as a way of refuting the HU based facts is simply a strawman.

I like Hungary, I'm married to a Hungarian. My kids are Hungarian.  I've been here for what seems like forever.   The people are 99% fine. But the politics stink.

The fear here is that racism and religious based bigotry becomes normalised.  It's a step backwards for HU society.  Our fear is that there will be a generation brought up under O1G  propaganda who buy into his nonsense.  There's even a chance of HUexit if it suits his purpose to remain in power.   

Anyways, England had the last laugh with a 4-0 win -  stunning goals particularly the headers and that cross taken by Raheem Sterling was perhaps the best in the game.  He's a great player and England are lucky to have him.

That's a little 'white biased' methinks..... Linking Gypsies and Crime in the same paraphrase 🤬
Nasty.

I personally can't really say how other people think or act but in our experince here and actually in the USA we never hung out or knew people who were anti-semitic.
As far as I know my family roots were all Greek Orthodox from Poland and my husband was raised Catholic in Budapest.
His father's family was Catholic practing but he was partly Jewish, his mom was not Jewish.
My husband's step-mother and half sister are Jewish.
I had mostly Jewish, none praticing friends here in Hungary, they used to have big Easter dinner but said they were Jewish.
An eldery Jewish lady came to my rescuce in NYC, I'll never forget how kind she was.
Had a fight with a roommate and was moving out. She pulled me into her flat and made me a snack and had me relax and allowed me to call my auntie in another state before I headed to see her.
Had friends and almost BIL's in the US who were Jewsih.
Jewish people have always seemed to except me as a long lost cousin of sorts, always kind to me.
Most all of my husband's friends during the commie days in Budapest were Jewish boys. No one made a big deal one way or the other about religion and friendship.
In fact over all mostly my Jewish friends in my lifetime were the ones to step up out of their way to help me out.
My husband was really hurt in Italy, had a broekn in half arm for 8 months while in a refugee camp.
It just wouldn't set and he needed a huge operation done.
Italy had him booked finally for surgery but the tiny village wher ethe hospital was was very understaffed, old and not up t modern standards in the early 70's.
His Jewish childhod friend had left HU and went to Sweden.
He heard through the HU grapevine abut my husband's arm.
Well this loyal Jewish man traveled to Italy, said no way he would allow them t operate n his friends arm so gave him his papers to get up to Sweden and seek medical aid there.
His friend gave him mney and treated him as a brother.
No idea how they guy ever got home to Sweden since he didn't have his papers with him but he put himself out in harms way for a friend.
Rare,very rare to have anyone d that for another.
That was over 50 years ago. They guy came to visit HU 6 or 7 yers back, they meet up, time makes distance but they still had a warm spot for each other.
Religion shouldn't get in the way of friendship or being a human.
Kindness and goodness should be first in everyones heart and mind.
My mother raised us with the fear of a huge slap in the mouth if we ever dared to put down another race or religion as children just because we heard a silly joke or thought something was worth speaking up about. I remember once as a small girl using the N word for some reason, never used  it again after mm got her hands on me. People need to learn control over themselves and put themselves in anothers place.
Sorry, my rant is over with.

We live in the heart of the city in Budapest. I grew up in the US in the country but now love this city of Budapest. The people are very friendly and we have been here 4 years and just love it. If You do not speak Hungarian then if You are in an area where You know no one then it will be very difficult. My only advice is to do extensive research before You buy. You must have a good attorney. Realitor’s like everywhere will sell you anything and a lot of them are good but a lot are out for the sale only. I could write a book on my mistakes when first moving here but in the end we have met good friends from all over the world and the city is so alive with so much to see and do.
Good luck in your search.
Ed Owens

zif wrote:

You don't have to go that far. Just look at his interview with Tucker Carlson last month. He came across as reasonable, intelligent, charming. And more articulate -- in English -- than Joe Biden. Why shouldn't Hungarians be proud of him?

(Links often don't show here so just search YouTube for Orban Carlson.)

I watched that. It was a really good interview.

anns wrote:

zif wrote:

You don't have to go that far. Just look at his interview with Tucker Carlson last month. He came across as reasonable, intelligent, charming. And more articulate -- in English -- than Joe Biden. Why shouldn't Hungarians be proud of him?

(Links often don't show here so just search YouTube for Orban Carlson.)

I watched that. It was a really good interview.

I never trust biased media. Left or right - You can't believe a word they say without checking it.

Fred wrote:

anns wrote:

zif wrote:

You don't have to go that far. Just look at his interview with Tucker Carlson last month. He came across as reasonable, intelligent, charming. And more articulate -- in English -- than Joe Biden. Why shouldn't Hungarians be proud of him?

(Links often don't show here so just search YouTube for Orban Carlson.)

I watched that. It was a really good interview.

I never trust biased media. Left or right - You can't believe a word they say without checking it.

There are reports Tucker Carlson was paid $250K by the Hungarian government to do that interview.

fluffy2560 wrote:

There are reports Tucker Carlson was paid $250K by the Hungarian government to do that interview.

No clue but I know the politically bias media put out whatever sells.

SimCityAT wrote:

One good thing in America is that the President can only serve 2 terms (2 x4 years) I wish a lot of other countries did the same.

Yes but they can do a ton of damage in 8 years time.
We have people  (lizards) in the US congress who have been sitting on their bums for decades and in the mean time the US is not the same place where I grew up and learned in school about freedoms and rights. They have put those all away and made Biden a Dictator.
It's really sad, the US flag has red in it to rep. those who shed blood out in the white snow for freedom under blue skies.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

One good thing in America is that the President can only serve 2 terms (2 x4 years) I wish a lot of other countries did the same.

Yes but they can do a ton of damage in 8 years time.
We have people  (lizards) in the US congress who have been sitting on their bums for decades and in the mean time the US is not the same place where I grew up and learned in school about freedoms and rights. They have put those all away and made Biden a Dictator.
It's really sad, the US flag has red in it to rep. those who shed blood out in the white snow for freedom under blue skies.

I dunno, it seems all a bit of a replay of many other people in power.  They've all done stupid things at one time or another.   And no-one seems to remember.

I wouldn't call Biden a dictator but I'm thinking he's a has-been.  I cannot see him ever going to a second term.  He'll let Kamala do it but even she seems to put her foot in it on a regular basis.

Biden pulling out of Afghanistan in such an uncontrolled and chaotic way seems to have condemned generations of Afghans to a life of hell.  He AND Trump sold them out.  Looks hard to forgive either of them for that.  But I think Biden mulled the odds and rolled the dice on how he will be remembered in the history of that country - either be remembered as the saviour or an appeaser/apologist.

IMO, not trying to be a doomsayer, my prediction is the next USA or World conflict will be over China over Taiwan.  That's going to be far worse than Afghanistan.  US allies and territory is not that far away in Guam. It's not the same as Afghanistan - Taiwan will be fought mainly at sea.  Aircraft carrier Guam is being provided new military bases and increases in military capacity.  That whole area is ripe for blowing up.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

One good thing in America is that the President can only serve 2 terms (2 x4 years) I wish a lot of other countries did the same.

Yes but they can do a ton of damage in 8 years time.
We have people  (lizards) in the US congress who have been sitting on their bums for decades and in the mean time the US is not the same place where I grew up and learned in school about freedoms and rights. They have put those all away and made Biden a Dictator.
It's really sad, the US flag has red in it to rep. those who shed blood out in the white snow for freedom under blue skies.

I dunno, it seems all a bit of a replay of many other people in power.  They've all done stupid things at one time or another.   And no-one seems to remember.

I wouldn't call Biden a dictator but I'm thinking he's a has-been.  I cannot see him ever going to a second term.  He'll let Kamala do it but even she seems to put her foot in it on a regular basis.

Biden pulling out of Afghanistan in such an uncontrolled and chaotic way seems to have condemned generations of Afghans to a life of hell.  He AND Trump sold them out.  Looks hard to forgive either of them for that.  But I think Biden mulled the odds and rolled the dice on how he will be remembered in the history of that country - either be remembered as the saviour or an appeaser/apologist.

IMO, not trying to be a doomsayer, my prediction is the next USA or World conflict will be over China over Taiwan.  That's going to be far worse than Afghanistan.  US allies and territory is not that far away in Guam. It's not the same as Afghanistan - Taiwan will be fought mainly at sea.  Aircraft carrier Guam is being provided new military bases and increases in military capacity.  That whole area is ripe for blowing up.

I'm pretty sure that we will sadly be seeing a war soon enough somewhere and this time it will be WW3 nt just going on in  just one region of the world.
Actually I beleive we are already at war, a war of the mind.

fluffy2560 wrote:

IMO, not trying to be a doomsayer, my prediction is the next USA or World conflict will be over China over Taiwan.  That's going to be far worse than Afghanistan.  US allies and territory is not that far away in Guam. It's not the same as Afghanistan - Taiwan will be fought mainly at sea.  Aircraft carrier Guam is being provided new military bases and increases in military capacity.  That whole area is ripe for blowing up.

The area is ripe for a whole mess, but I can't see either side wanting to start a war. If you look at all the wars the US has started since 1945, none were against countries unable to attack the US.
China is very different.
If I'm being honest, China is a made up enemy anyway - It's all about Communist China being better capitalists than the US.
Now consider the massive bribes (Sorry, campaign contributions) from the US arms industry to bent politicians, and you have the real reason for an armaments build up.
The Soviet block is dead, Muslims have been played out, so China is next on the list of enemies to watch out for/reason to sell a load of guns. Political whatever gave way to oil power, now it's rare earth metals, Lithium (and other minerals) and microchips.

Quick, ban Chinese made solar panels and slap sanctions on the companies because they're abusing Muslims, but for Christ's sake never mention Guantanamo Bay and a few wars.
A years or two back nationalistic hate crimes in the US were against Muslims, now the number against anyone who looks Chinese is on the rise.
There goes hate politics - It attracts morons.

Australia entered into a stupid nuke sub deal to protect its trade routes, but its biggest trading partner is who they claim to be protecting routes against.
Of course China is fortifying islands, they have to have bases to defend against US forces, especially carrier groups, in the South China sea - a bit of water that's absolutely nowhere near the US.
..and it goes on.

Every war mongering, hate filled argument (That's any politicians, not any specific lot or any nationality) is all about cash and power. When we all realise that, politicians wouldn't be able to get away with their idiotic antics and we'll all be able to get on with life.

Fred wrote:

....
Of course China is fortifying islands, they have to have bases to defend against US forces, especially carrier groups, in the South China sea - a bit of water that's absolutely nowhere near the US.
..and it goes on..

The South China Sea is thought to be very mineral rich with large deposits of oil.   

The issue with the Chinese islands is that China doesn't have a real capability in mobile aircraft carriers for projecting power far away from home base.  Hence the island bases as aircraft carriers. I don't see the island bases as that much of a threat as it wouldn't take much bombing to take them out. 

Taiwan is so close to China, it's easy to reach and their supply chains would be very short.

BTW, US has long standing possessions and allies in the area who are also in dispute over the area.  Possessions include Guam, Marianas Islands. Allies include  Federated States of Micronesia and Palau plus even closer The Philippnes, Japan, South Korea etc.   

It could be China invades Taiwan as a diversion away from domestic discontent.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The South China Sea is thought to be very mineral rich with large deposits of oil.   .

Don't forget massive fish stocks

fluffy2560 wrote:

BTW, US has long standing possessions and allies in the area who are also in dispute over the area.  Possessions include Guam, Marianas Islands.

Question is, how did the US get hold of those islands? Take a guess, but they're moaning about China's territorial expansion

fluffy2560 wrote:

It could be China invades Taiwan as a diversion away from domestic discontent.

Only if the Chinese government loses control of its population, but that won't happen until BMW doesn't sell as many cars in China as it does at the moment. Pockets full of cash have a habit of keeping the owners of the said pockets not giving a rats about who is in government.

As I said - Cash and power. The fact the US does it doesn't mean China doesn't. That in mind, I support neither.

There are so many regions and issues that could blow up at any time.
I do not think it is about money as much as total controll of all populations.
They"( The cabal, men behind the curtain ect.) can just print out all the money they desire, they don't need our money or resources but they have to have total control of everyone's mind and bodies.
They try to pit us against each other by religion, race ect. when in fact they have it out for all of us.
They will not be happy until we all raise our hands to ask if we can use the WC.

Fred wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

The South China Sea is thought to be very mineral rich with large deposits of oil.   .

Don't forget massive fish stocks

fluffy2560 wrote:

BTW, US has long standing possessions and allies in the area who are also in dispute over the area.  Possessions include Guam, Marianas Islands.

Question is, how did the US get hold of those islands? Take a guess, but they're moaning about China's territorial expansion

fluffy2560 wrote:

It could be China invades Taiwan as a diversion away from domestic discontent.

Only if the Chinese government loses control of its population, but that won't happen until BMW doesn't sell as many cars in China as it does at the moment. Pockets full of cash have a habit of keeping the owners of the said pockets not giving a rats about who is in government.

As I said - Cash and power. The fact the US does it doesn't mean China doesn't. That in mind, I support neither.

The fish stocks are important but there are conservation efforts and fishing agreements around the area.  Minerals are going to be far more important.   Further East out into the Pacific fishing grounds are far larger.  Some countries have huge areas of sea and make money licensing fishing fleets from China and elsewhere. It's important for them to get that cashflow by managing their territories fish stocks.

The possessions have been US hands for many years and in most cases with the consent of the population.   US liberated them from Japan during WW2.  There wasn't a choice but to take them over in order to defeat the Japanese.  The islands were on a direct path to Japan from the USA.  They couldn't leave  them occupied.   In any case, Japan and some others held a lot of the islands before their WW2 misadventure so post-WW2, that' how Japan was reduced in capability to wage war. 

I thought perhaps China would fade out the communist rhetoric and gradually move to the capitalist system and democracy but as we see, it takes one person to become the dictator and the thing perpetuates for that one person's ego and personal convenience.  Russia's the same - it's all Putin's ego and personal wealth.  Hungary, Belarus, Poland - all cast in the same increasing ego-mania of one individual's bent imagination.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

There are so many regions and issues that could blow up at any time.
I do not think it is about money as much as total controll of all populations.
They"( The cabal, men behind the curtain ect.) can just print out all the money they desire, they don't need our money or resources but they have to have total control of everyone's mind and bodies.
They try to pit us against each other by religion, race ect. when in fact they have it out for all of us.
They will not be happy until we all raise our hands to ask if we can use the WC.

I am not sure it's a lizard people conspiracy.   The motivation of some people is hard to fathom though. There will always be someone perceived to be trying to screw someone else over for their views.