Looking to relocate to Ecuador

Dear Amanda,

Welcome to the Ecuador forums of Expat.com ...

Based on what you told us in the opening post, you and your family are hard-charging into Ecuador without adequate preparation. 

The fact that you have posted questions on this thread shows that you understand you have a lot to learn .. are willing to learn .. and have a strong desire to succeed in farming in Ecuador.

However, a seasoned Expat in Ecuador reads your post and thinks this...

Here's this Canadian family with no apparent experience in Ecuador or Ecuadorian farming .. willing to pay all-cash for a remote 100-acre farm in an obscure corner of the country .. possibly thinking that putting up a fence and owning a shotgun will be adequate protection in case of trouble.  What could possibly go wrong with this scenario?

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Consider spending your first year in southwestern Ecuador associating with an existing farm and learning the answers to many of your questions and the many more questions that will arise.

Given the uncertainties .. including medical questions .. don't buy property in Year One unless your family has money to burn.

After a year, you'll know a lot more .. you'll have a better idea whether a Gringo family is likely to succeed in the farming endeavor .. and whether y'all really want to go through with this.

A key issue is how you will experience the isolation of living on and running a farm in a foreign country, a scenario that has proved disappointing or dangerous for some Gringo forerunners.

If your family has Spanish-language skills, it is not apparent in the first post.  Language and negotiation skills would be critical in dealing with hires, markets, government officials and potential trouble spots.

--

Next, I will address some of your specific questions.

cccmedia

Which would be the best visa to apply for?

Probably an investment visa based on a certificate of deposit, which is guaranteed up to $32,000 by Ecuador's version of the FDIC.  Secure cooperatives currently offer annual interest rates in the 8 to 9 percent range, far higher than what's available in North America.

Logically, buying a farm would be a good qualification for the visa requirements .. but for reasons I could explain, this is generally a bad idea for Gringos in your situation.

cccmedia

Is it worth importing our Dodge Ram?

It can't be done.

Ecuador does not allow the importation of used vehicles.  The rare exceptions are made for returning Ecuadorians who lived abroad .. and the families of foreign diplomats.

I suggest you get your visa and an Ecuadorian drivers license before buying a vehicle.

cccmedia

Should I hire a tutor for my daughter?  Will she have a hard time making friends?

Yes, sure, get a tutor.  Being able to communicate in Spanish will demonstrate interest in engaging with the people and the culture .. and make it easier to have new friends.

cccmedia

Will the elevation affect the medications I am currently on?  What is the process to transfer medications to Ecuador?

Elevation affects individuals differently.  Since we're not doctors and don't know your health history or your meds, a reliable prediction is not possible.

Bring your prescriptions to a local doctor, who should be able to tell you the names of your meds for Ecuador.  Many meds are available over the counter without a prescription.  Some mind-bending, mood-altering meds known as psicotrópicos y estupefacientes can only be prescribed by a specialist doctor.

cccmedia

What about permits to build or renovate?

Spanish-language legalese is beyond the ken of most Expat arrivals.

When the time comes to purchase, such matters should be explored with an experienced real estate attorney -- preferably one recommended by other property owners you will have met or networked with along the way.

cccmedia

What is the best place to store our money?

Banks and some co-operatives offer government insurance for up to $32,000 per depositor.

Opinions seem to vary as to whether you can do 32K at multiple institutions and still qualify for insured coverage.

Consider keeping most of your liquid assets in Canada, with access via debit cards.  Keep in mind that the Ecuadorian post office may have (all but) collapsed during The Situation .. so it may be tricky getting replacement cards when old cards expire.

Once you have the visa, you can open an Ecuadorian savings account with a debit card included.

cccmedia

Is it possible to obtain a family doctor?  I would like to get a hysterectomy which I have been unable to get in Canada.

To my knowledge, this forum has no active members near the little town you mentioned, so we can't reliably predict this.

For reasons we can discuss further, I would not recommend getting such a procedure done in a rural part of Ecuador during an Expat's first year there.

cccmedia

How do we obtain house insurance?

Plenty of folks or companies would be happy to sell you insurance.

If you eventually get to the point of owning property and desire insurance, I would have an attorney peruse the policy.

Otherwise, you could be tripped up by loopholes that make the policy  unenforceable.  If you ever had a claim that was denied, where are you gonna go?  Good luck finding a state insurance commission that will back a Gringo against an Ecuadorian company .. or an Ecuadorian court of law that will reverse the denial in your favor.

cccmedia

Any suggestions on how to keep the locals happy, not step on any toes?

This is an enlightened question.

If you follow the guidance not to buy property in Year One, you will probably pick up cues that answer it .. without making early mistakes.

If you attempt to buy property for all-cash immediately, you may be signaling to some of the wrong people that your family could be a worthwhile target.

cccmedia

Hello Amanda.

I too am a Canadian, now living in Ecuador and in my past life I farmed sheep in Grey County in Ontario.  So I think I generally understand the kind of transition you are considering.  The major difference is that I am older, retired, but do own property in Cotopaxi province.

Before I actually retired to Ecuador I had done a reasonable amount of research and then visited the country 4 times, so this is the action I think you should consider first.  A visit.  I even had like you preconceived ideas on where to buy first and that is the area I explored first. It was not until 3 visits to Ecuador that I realized the house there would be nice but the community would not be so nice, mainly a small group of expats rather afraid of Ecuadorians.  As a result this location would isolate me.  Fortunately I found a house on the internet that looked more promising and while not a location on most expat's radar, has turned out to be quite good.

You have also automatically made the assumption about buying, as did I.  This is where you should think twice.  One thing to understand about Ecuador is that there are very few real estate brokers and not an easy system for selling properties.  Yes, fairly easy to buy but not to sell because you simply can't get information out to prospective buyers as you can in Canada.  Secondly, unless you can get a cash purchase, there are issues for buyers because the local interest rates for mortgages in Ecuador are extremely high, like 15%.  For these reasons like the others, I would recommend that if after a visit or two you still feel Ecuador is your place, rent.  You will find a fair number of places and be better able to change if a location does not suit.  Flexibility will give you peace of mind.

Regarding farming, this is a different world.  First, very few Ecuadorians expect the owner to work on the farm.   Afterall you are perceived as being a rich Canadian and why would you not pay others when the rate is maybe $100 a week a worker!  I can remember the first time I put a garden fork in the ground of my 1.5 ha. property and the neighbours saw me.  Shortly after I was told how shocked they were that I was not paying someone else.  No concept of gardening as an activity for pleasure.
Secondly, farming in a climate that continuously grows things is not like Northern Ontario.  You do not get a rest when winter comes.  Here the concept of seasons is foreign, mostly, is it the rainy or windy season, but our concept of when things need to be done goes out the window.  The farming most like Canada is found in my province, Cotopaxi, which here is regarded as the coldest place in Ecuador.  But the ground does not freeze and plants keep growing.  However beef, dairy cows, sheep and other animal production do well and greenhouses are blossoming along with plants like alfalfa, quinoa and edible lupines.  You do need to visit and understand what is happening in agriculture here and assess that against your goals.  If you are into organic production, maybe a great idea as not enough.  If you want an export product, then you need to know about the agricultural export system here, like roses and broccoli.  If you just want to live in a self-sustainable way that is possilbe in many areas.

With regard to your child, she would learn Spanish and if you are flexible, you will too.  Easier than French.   However, school systems are not all equal in quality.  Health care does have some advantages here as there are many Centros de Salud, open 5 days a week offering basic health care, almost free.  For specialty surgery there are quite good private hospitals in Quito and Cuenca, possibly Guayaquil.  Prices are not exorbitant and many are functioning very well right now not like with the Covid issues in Canada.  Getting an appointment is really not difficult and not very costly in the private system.  I recently saw 2 doctors in Quito and had an MRI done and all was organized and done within 2 weeks!  I suspect you could even organize a private surgery on a visit, sort of as medical tourism.  I know a specialist in internal medicine in Quito. 

As for Ecuadroians, I have found most to be very kind and interested in who you are and where you have come from.  When you do find a place to settle, even if temporary, Ecuadorians love parties and some kind of an event to welcome neighbours or those who are friends of someone who might work for you, will go a long way to prevent problems and present you as a good introduction to the neighbourhood.

I would be very pleased to help you if you wish, so please contact me directly as I have lived here nearly 8 years.  Contact at ***

All the best; do not give up your dreams.  Linda

Cccmedia / Linda I appreciate both of your prompt and honest responses.

I’m an individual who always dives head first. Without giving my whole life story I went from being homeless in Toronto @ 15 to a double home owner in a small town 8 hours North by 18. I buried my first born at 19, owned several businesses, ive volunteered for and helped fund a dozen non profit organizations over the years as well. I have lost it all started over twice. I’ve been fascinated with Ecuador for years but until recently I wasn’t in a position to leave (businesses, other children, caring for my dying parents etc). Now I’m in a position where I have “retired” and therefore am financially stable for the foreseeable future (unless I live past 100- hopefully I don’t though) 

I am often told I accomplish things impossible to accomplish. I don’t want to take any business or step on any toes I just want to live peacefully. I figured our farming / contracting / heavy equipment operator experience would aid us in living more sustainably than we are currently.

With our winters our ability to grow food diminishes greatly, leaving us to resort to preserving and canning many foods. While I love doing this, the prospect of being able to live sustainably all year long without great impact would be a dream come true for us.

Linda- I had never considered that locals wouldn’t expect us to work hand in hand with them. Perhaps I’m an exception but I have always worked alongside those I employ. I also have always paid my employees a VERY fair wage. I’ve worked for same shady cheap shits in my life and I hate those kinds of employers….Now their are some jobs I have had to delegate due to chronic pain but that doesn’t stop me from getting down and dirty.

I genuinely meant no disrespect to anyone. I’ve had the itch to change scenery for a long while and with the change in my circumstances just I felt that this could be our next chapter. I’ve endured a lot and never had the opportunity to live in peace and that’s really all I want to do. I’ll continue to do research. I have an appointment with a couple agents and relocation specialist so hopefully they will be able to shed some more light prior to our exploratory visit to make sure we make the most of it.

I’m genuinely elated, I’ve never travelled anywhere warm during the winter and our winters hit -40 degrees Celsius and we get up to 13 feet of snow.

PS Linda I would love that! My email is *** (your updated posts are covered?)

Hi cccmedia, Please find a way for Amanda Mora and I to communicate directly.  I think we would both appreciate this.  L.

Linda Swaine wrote:

Hi cccmedia, Please find a way for Amanda Mora and I to communicate directly.  I think we would both appreciate this.  L.

I sent you a message with my email, it should be a little chat bubble at the top of your screen to the right. Thanks so kindly for your willingness to chat with me it is deeply appreciated!

Linda Swaine wrote:

Hi cccmedia, Please find a way for Amanda Mora and I to communicate directly.  I think we would both appreciate this.  L.

To send a PM personal/private message on this site, click on the member's icon to the left of any post by the intended recipient.  Then follow the Send a Message option you will encounter.

moraamanda wrote:

I’m an individual who always dives head first. Without giving my whole life story I went from being homeless in Toronto @ 15 to a double home owner in a small town 8 hours North by 18. I buried my first born at 19, owned several businesses, ive volunteered for and helped fund a dozen non profit organizations... I have lost it all started over twice....

Now I’m in a position where I have “retired” and therefore am financially stable for the foreseeable future...

Not so easy to start over after a big loss in retirement .. compared to ages 15-18.  That goes double for potentially starting over at some point in a foreign country in a second language. 

A 30-something Expat/entrepreneur from Cleveland named Dom Buonamici, a/k/a Mr. Second Passport, recently posted a video on his YouTube site on how he lost $10,000 on an agriculture investment in Ecuador.

Search at youtube.com:  how I lost over $10k trying to grow stevia in ecuador

cccmedia

cccmedia wrote:

moraamanda wrote:

I’m an individual who always dives head first. Without giving my whole life story I went from being homeless in Toronto @ 15 to a double home owner in a small town 8 hours North by 18. I buried my first born at 19, owned several businesses, ive volunteered for and helped fund a dozen non profit organizations... I have lost it all started over twice....

Now I’m in a position where I have “retired” and therefore am financially stable for the foreseeable future...

Not so easy to start over after a big loss in retirement .. compared to ages 15-18.  That goes double for potentially starting over at some point in a foreign country in a second language. 

A 30-something Expat/entrepreneur from Cleveland named Dom Buonamici, a/k/a Mr. Second Passport, recently posted a video on his YouTube site on how he lost $10,000 on an agriculture investment in Ecuador.

Search at youtube.com:  how I lost over $10k trying to grow stevia in ecuador

cccmedia

I’m not sure what your disdain is for me - but it’s palpable.

I’m 32, my husband is 45 so I’m pretty confident we still have lots of life left.

I appreciate your input.

Dear moraamanda,  Forgive me but I did not detect any disdain in any message to you, palpable or otherwise.

cccmedia gives pretty good advice most of the time.  For a gringo in a relatively short time he has learned the language and the culture to a degree that most expats might not ever attain.  He has traveled widely in South America.  He does not have blinders on - I think he sees both the good and the bad and is a realist, while still retaining his native optimism.  He is just stating the facts without trying to sugar-coat anything.  Would you prefer that everyone tell you the path is wide and flat and strewn with roses, when in fact it is all uphill and rocky and uneven and dangerous?

He may have been trying to point out, gently, that things can be tough in Ecuador or any other foreign country - especially compared to Canada or the USA where life is relatively much easier in almost every aspect, day-to-day and long-term.

And it's even tougher, if you don't know the language and the culture well.  You will have to work twice as hard to get half the results.

But fortunately for most expats, their relative wealth compared to many of the natives, is a big equalizer.  And you having already faced many hardships in life, may be well-positioned to succeed in Ecuador at whatever you try to do.  But don't think it will be easier than it is in Canada or the USA.