Work i Germany with EU Long Term Residence Permit from Italy

All work and residence permits are strictly national, so there is no advantage of having an Italian one in getting a German one. Just apply at the German embassy as per normal!
Whether an Italian residence permit can remain valid once you stop living there is a question for the Italy forum, not here!

Thanks for the response, but i have the long term eu residence permit, which gives easier mobility within eu states except ireland and denmark, i know this much that i have to apply for the permit in Germany not through embassy (this permit gives exemption), also my question was more related to the situation of the long term residence (which is also valid for this forum, if someone has done this process).

I wanted to know if someone has been through this process already.

I agree with Beppi. The basic question is about Italian residency law. One is much more likely to find an answer on the Italian forum than to find someone on the German one that came from Italy in such a situation.

What I can say is how it works for one with such a permit in Germany to go work elsewhere. And I would be surprised if the Italian law would be significantly different but I don't really know. After leaving Germany for more than a year such a permit is normally considered forfeited; given up. One can sometimes get an approved extension of time, even up to a few years, IF one goes to work in another EU country and has the intention to return and would show that they will have a job or guaranteed income when returning. But one has to register this and have it agreed on before leaving.

The upshot is that the word "permanent residency" which is often even officially used is very misleading. The only guarantee for a non-EU person  to simply go off as long as they want and be able to return is to get German citizenship. And even one with another EU citizenship, giving them a right to work in Germany, could be deported or banned to return if convicted of a serious crime.

The logically more exact term is "unlimited" residency rather than "permanent". It means there is not a set limit; one can stay as long as they want. But there are conditions to how long they can stay away if they later want to return.

khanic wrote:

Thanks for the response, but i have the long term eu residence permit, which gives easier mobility within eu states except ireland and denmark, i know this much that i have to apply for the permit in Germany not through embassy (this permit gives exemption), also my question was more related to the situation of the long term residence (which is also valid for this forum, if someone has done this process).

I wanted to know if someone has been through this process already.

Go to the local Ausländerbehörde.

Whether you need an appointment or have to show up early to get a number is depending on the way things are organized locally, so do a search for "Ausländerbehörde + community you are moving to" to find out how to get in contact with the relevant immigration authority.

Have a look here, too (scroll down a bit):

https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/Migration … nternet272

thanks AKLB for the information.

I leave this here so anybody else looking for the same info has the answer.

I contacted the immigration office in the locality i am moving in, the told me i can apply directly in the office without acquiring a visa first(because of EU Long Term resident in another EU state).

Furthermore, the status of the EU Long Term residence from the first EU state remains valid until you spend 5 years in the second country and once acquiring a Long term residence status in the second country the first one becomes invalid.

Hello @fridalyc, I am looking for the same information. I also got a job in Germany and I hold Italian long term residence card. I have the same question like you.

Can you work in Germany while waiting for the final Germany local resident card to be received?

Can my company make a contract with me with my Italian Residence permit and in the meanwhile I apply for the German permit.

@selabatsahu You can sign an employment contract with a German company, but you cannot move to Germany or start work before you have a proper work visa issued. Your Italian title does not help here.

THE EU "LONG TERM RESIDENT'S RESIDENCE PERMIT" issued in ITALY / ANOTHER EU COUNTRY

These types of relocation questions pop-up repeatedly on expat.com and in relation to multiple countries, not just Germany or Italy.

So, first, some definitions:

In EU terminology, there are "temporary" residence permits which are issued (usually for 1, 2, or 5 years) during the first years of your relocation to an EU country (other than your country of citizenship). After "five years of legal and continuous residence" (i.e. holding a valid temporary residence permit without a break during these 5 years, but not necessarily being physically present for those years), you are potentially eligible to change your status and apply for a new type of residence permit. There are two distinct options, so this can be a national "permanent residence" card (e.g. permanent residence permit issued in Italy or Bulgaria) OR it can be an "EU Long Term Resident's Residence Permit" (again issued, for example, in Italy or Bulgaria). Let's call them TR, PR and LTR. (There is also the Blue Card, for highly-skilled workers, but I think it's confusing enough without adding BC to the mix! The BC is a form of TR, but with some additional benefits including mobility.)

Additionally, the EU refers to EU citizens, and non-EU citizens ("Third Country National" or TCN). In particular, EU citizens enjoy "Freedom of Movement" (the right/ability to live, work, or study in any EU country) by virtue of their passport. Hence, while they SHOULD get a TR (actually it's an "EU Citizen Registration Certificate"), they can legally work (or stay for more than 3 months) WITHOUT it. A TCN holding an LTR (from Italy, or elsewhere) MUST apply for a new TR in Germany, and MUST have it before they can legally work.

The EU's objective is that the LTR does (or should) confer a degree of EU mobility to TCNs similar to Freedom of Movement. And that the requirements for obtaining your TR in another EU country should be the same as for an EU citizen's registration process.

The 3 types of permits (TR, PR and LTR) can be issued to both EU citizens and TCNs. But (a) the TR for an EU citizen is really an EU Citizen Registration Certificate (and has easier requirements), and (b) the benefits of an LTR are somewhat lost on an EU citizen as they already have an EU passport.

Thus, the short answer... is that it's very good for you, as a TCN, to have an LTR. And you can (or should be able to) relocate much more easily to another EU country, including Germany. However, some countries are more cooperative about this than others.

Personally, I had no problems getting my TRs in Bulgaria, Cyprus and Spain. But my local German immigration was massively resistant, despite me owning a house there for 4 years, and spending far more time there than in any of those other countries. This leads me to suggest that German immigration bureaucrats can be overly picky, and are deaf to any claims that they are breaching EU guidelines, or applying criteria in a way that is inconsistent with other EU countries. Even if they do decide that you're entitled to a residence permit in Germany, it may take longer (or much longer) than in other countries. Until you get your new TR, you can't legally start work (but you can search for jobs, attend interviews, and accept job offers).

My long answer...

Having in lived in one EU country with your TC for 5 years, you are (potentially) eligible for your PR or LTR.

Which one is issued to you depends upon (a) which one you ask for, and (b) which one you qualify for, based on how long you were physically present in the country during the preceding 60 months. Hence, the distinction is drawn between legal residence, or holding a valid permit, and physical residence, or being present in the country. PR is 30+ in 60, and LTR is 50+ in 60. (If < 30, simply get another TR.)

Unfortunately, it can also depend on (c) how willing your particular EU country of residence is to issue LTRs instead of PRs, and some appear to be very reluctant do so. This creates some confusion in entitlement, and leads to differing treatment of long-term TCNs, depending on where they live in the EU. Moreover, as LTRs and PRs have different time-based eligibility, the EU's expectation was that one could get both (as you initially qualify for the PR, then later qualify for the LTR), or, in other words, you can have both PR (for national rights in your first country) and LTR (for additional mobility rights across the EU). But many countries insist you must choose one or the other (rather than hold both).

Both are superior to a TR, so you should, of course, apply for this potential change of status when you become eligible. They are both indefinite permits in the sense that while the card is issued for a specific period (usually 5 or 10 years), they are renewable upon request. (And this status is protected, so it's harder to lose it or have it taken away.)

The PR permit is exactly what it sounds like, and carries no rights to other EU states. The LTR permit, on the other hand, provides advantages in terms of EU mobility.

There is still plenty of confusion about these permits, and many folks are still (after all these years of the EU project) unaware of the significance of the LTR. In particular, it provides a route for "third-country nationals" (TCNs, or non-EU citizens, who don't enjoy the "Freedom of Movement" conferred by EU passports) to acquire an enhanced status (i.e. some kind of "permanent" residence in the EU, rather than merely in the first EU country they relocated to) after 5 years in their FIRST EU country (e.g. Italy). And they can then enjoy the ability to live, work or study in a SECOND (or THIRD) EU country (e.g. Germany or Spain) on a similar basis to EU passport holders (i.e. your LTR from EU #1 + EU #2 proof of address, proof of funds, proof of health insurance).

In this way, someone holding an LTR from, say, Italy, can relocate to Germany, and be issued with their first German TR, provided they have suitable proofs for address, funds and health insurance. In the same way as a French citizen can also relocate to Germany, and be issued with the same TR, if they have the same proofs. (Well, strictly speaking, they are not the same TR. One is a TR for non-EU citizens, and the other is a TR for EU citizens, often called an EU Citizen Registration Certificate.)

This is also a source of confusion, unfortunately. As the idea of holding two (or more) EU residence permits seems unlikely or unorthodox (or, some say say, even illegal). Nevertheless, those are the rules. And, of course, they are not the same type of residence permit: you hold one LTR (issued in Italy, or Bulgaria, or wherever), and you (might) hold one (or more) TRs in other EU member states.

As the LTR has EU mobility benefits, it clearly doesn't expire in Italy, if you exercise your ability to relocate to Germany in order to take up a job offer. Of course, if you leave the EU, and go to Dubai or China for years, then you would likely lose it. What happens to your "Italian" LTR depends on what you decide to do. You can relocate temporarily to, say, Spain for 2 years for a master's degree (with your Spanish TR)... and then return to Italy. Or, you can take up a job in France (using your French TR), and decide to stay there. In which case, you would exchange your French TR for a new LTR issued in France (and your Italian LTR would be invalid or cancelled). Or, as the PR and LTR are different permits, with different physical presence rules, you could, potentially, have an Italian LTR, and a French PR, and a German TR. The only clear rule is that you can ONLY have ONE LTR.

Here's a useful German link on "Mobility with an EU long-term residence permit"

https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/MigrationAufenthalt/ZuwandererDrittstaaten/MobilitaetEU/MobilitaetLangfristigerAufenthalt/mobilitaet-langfristigeraufenthalt-node.html;jsessionid=E76B19043D47057447C8DDEB203FF7C0.internet272

"An EU long-term residence permit enables you to enjoy the legal benefits of long-term resident status and have extended mobility rights in other EU Member States."

"If you hold an EU long-term residence permit issued by another EU Member State, a residence permit will be issued to you in Germany allowing you to work, study or undergo training here."

And this is what the EU has to say on the "Rights of third-country nationals who are long-term residents in the EU" per EU Directive 2003/109/EC

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2022/699469/EPRS_BRI(2022)699469_EN.pdf

"Directive 2003/109/EC (the Long-term Residents Directive, or LTRD) sets out the conditions under which a non-EU citizen ('third-country national') who has legally and continuously resided in a European Union (EU) Member State for at least five years can acquire 'EU long-term resident status'. This residence status is permanent, grants these individuals equal treatment rights with EU citizens in several areas, ensures reinforced protection against expulsion, and gives them the (conditional) possibility to move and reside in other Member States."

More philosophically, those that have read the EU's founding principles will be aware of the bloc's desire to promote both cohesion/social integration, and cross-border mobility (of people, products, services, money). Nowhere do the EU directives state that these principles are only to be applied to EU citizens. Accordingly, it is consistent with this to "facilitate" the relocation of TCNs who are existing EU residents (i.e. holding any one of TR, PR, or LTR elsewhere). Of course, "facilitate" is rather nebulous, and some countries (and immigration staff) will be far more helpful than others... and, likely, more helpful to PRs than TRs. However, LTRs should expect to be treated best of all, and in accordance with the relocation rules applicable to EU citizens.

All EU countries divide their immigration guidance into two: processes for EU citizens, and processes for TCNs. If you are a TCN with an LTR, you are (or are supposed to be!) entitled to follow the rules and processes for the former. If you are TCN with a TR, or a PR (or no EU permit residence at all) you follow the latter. Otherwise, every country would have a 3rd section, rules for TCNs with LTRs! Unfortunately, many still believe that two TCNs wanting to relocate to, say, Spain, will be treated strictly according to the TCN rules, regardless of their prior status in another EU member state. In which case, a British (non-EU) citizen moving from the UK (non-EU country), and a Turkish (also non-EU) citizen moving from Italy (an EU country) with his LTR (after more than 5 years living in Italy) are equally likely to be admitted. Does this make sense to you?

Given the confusion referred to above, and the inconsistent implementation across EU countries, the EU is currently engaged in a review (or "recast") of the above Directive. I believe it's quite far advanced, as it has been underway since 2019 and was tabled in 2022... so, I suppose, it might be an updated Directive in 2023.

Proposal for a Directive concerning the status of third-country nationals who are long-term residents (recast), published 27/04/22.

https://www.europeansources.info/record/proposal-for-a-directive-concerning-the-status-of-third-country-nationals-who-are-long-term-residents-recast/

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislat … t?sid=6301

"The proposal additionally puts in place a mechanism to ensure a level playing field between the EU long-term residence permit and national permanent residence permits in terms of procedures, equal treatment rights, and access to information, so that nationals from non-EU countries have a real choice between the two permits. It also facilitates circular migration by making it easier for long-term residents to return to their country of origin without losing their rights, benefiting both the countries of origin and the countries of residence."

@khanic dear khan, just wanna follow up if you started your work immediately or waited until you get your Germany residence permit approved?

@gwynj Thank you very much for your extensive explanation, I have a further question if I may. How long would it take an LTR holder to get the LTR or PR in the second EU country after moving from the first EU country to the second one? You mentioned that LTR holders would get an TR in the second country and if they stay longer they would eventually get the LTR in the second country instead of the first one; but how long do they have to stay in the second country to get their LTR? Is it the normal 5 years or since they already have an LTR in another EU country, it would help them get the LTR in the second one faster?

@Kia87

It generally takes 5 year from your TR (Temporary Residence) in County 1 to get your PR (Permanent Residence) in that country. The LTR (EU Long Term Residence) is a separate animal, and implementation varies across the EU. So, depending on the country, you might get LTR instead of PR, or you might get the LTR after the PR (with a separate application), or they might not offer the LTR. But I believe they all offer a PR.

5 years legally in the EU (i.e. usually enough time to be a PR in Country 1) is a big milestone, and your rights as a PR are much stronger and longer lasting than as a TR. In theory, the EU supports relocation of PRs, but it's not guaranteed. The PR of Country 1 does not have any RIGHTS to relocate to Country 2, but most EU countries do make it easier for a PR than someone entering the EU for the first time. But the exact rules vary from country to country, and you would still be applying for a new TR in Country 2. An LTR from Country 1 does have formal freedom of movement rights, but due to the current confusion over LTRs, there might again be variation from country to country. Just like a PR, even if you have an LTR, you would still be asking for a TR in Country 2.

A TR in Country 2 can lead to a PR there in the same 5 years. But the issue is why you would need two PRs (as opposed to a PR + one or more TRs), and whether you would be allowed to have multiple PRs.

I believe a few EU countries are very cooperative of PRs in Country 1, and will let you immediately swap to a PR in Country 2 instead. But it's not typical.

I doubt you can get 2 LTRs... and as an LTR should have freedom of movement, like an EU passport, you definitely don't need 2.

What, specifically, do you have in mind?

@gwynj

Thank you for your response. I was wondering if having an LTR or PR in country one would reduce the 5 year waiting time in country 2 to get the LTR or PR there ( Revoking the LTR or PR in country 1)? (I know that it is useless to have 2 PRs or LTRs in two different countries but having an LTR or PR in the country you are living in (country 2 after relocating) is much better than having a TR there and an LTR in the country you are no longer living in.

@Kia87

I don't think you need to revoke your PR in country 1 when you get a permit in country 2. I suspect that nothing stops you from having several PRs and/or TRs. (I'm not 100% sure as I have only one PR and two TRs, but I don't see why I won't get two more PRs if I asked for them.) The LTR is special, you can only have one of those.

The LTR is also special (and why you want one) as it explicitly allows you to relocate to the rest of the EU, on a similar basis to EU passport holders. But then, just like EU passport holders, you go do registration or get a TR (or now/later a PR) for your new country.

The PR is definitely far better than a TR. And the EU, generally, recognizes 5 years as an important milestone for non-EU citizens, and wants them to be treated better than new entrants. But different EU countries have different rules for how they will treat a PR coming from another country. I believe there are some that will happily give you a TR, and a few that will give you a PR immediately. But also a couple that make almost no concession at all. If they give you a TR, then you still have 5 years to PR.