Cost of house renovations

Hi,

Hi and Welcome.

Unless you are going on about an apartment in a holiday complex or an villa on an expat community it is unlikely you'll get much agreement about what a place is worth either before or after it has been renovated. There is no countrywide listings of property sale prices (unlike some other countries) nor of property asking prices so you'll not be able to search and compare similar. Also, as you may know, a property may have a "debt" assigned to it where someone has taken a loan which is assigned to the property not the person therefore you may see  two similar properties which are for sale but vastly different asking prices as one comes with a "debt".  In my opinion it is disingenuous to treat the real estate market in Portugal like those USA of UK etc in an attempt to extract comparative prices.

https://www.idealista.pt/

Check here for price comparisons of apartments, etc by areas.  This will give you an idea how much things cost.  You can select the areas you're interested in.

We bought our apartment outside of Porto, Rio Tinto in August 2022.  It's 106m2.  Two bedrooms, two baths with a large balcony with doors from the living room and laundry.   It has one underground parking space.  It is 20 years old.

Rio Tinto is a locals area, so the prices are less than in Porto and the tourist areas.  Our building is a 4 minute walk to the metro stop, 20 minutes into Porto.

• We repainted completely.
• Remodeled both bathrooms, replacing the tubs with walk showers, new cabinets and sinks.
• Replaced the kitchen exhaust fan, stove top, and oven.
• Purchased new refrigerator, washing machine and laundry sink.
• Remodeled the kitchen somewhat with new wall covering and installed a built in table for preparing food and dinning. 
• Installed new lighting fixtures since the seller took everything, including things nailed to the wall.
• Replaced 67m2 of flooring.
• Lot's of other small misc things that got lumped into the labor costs.

We spent €5,164 for materials, and €5,500 for labor. 

I can't say how our labor costs compare with others.  We worked with an excellent Brazilian contractor who became our friend.  My wife is Brazilian so that helps.

This does not count what we spent for home furnishing since we moved here with nothing.   We sold everything and moved.

I hope this helps.

We worked with an real estate in Rio Tinto before we moved here from the US.  For us, the apartment and area are perfect.  Close enough to walk to what's important, or not too by metro.  Get something close to the metro!

I don't know anything about future prices or mortgages.  Although, I hear if you're old, say 70 years, mortgages may be more difficult than if you're young. 

Estimated Selling Price / m2:

https://www.idealista.pt/media/relatori … da/report/

apologies to the original poster as this is mostly off topic to the question...

@Andrew: how was the renovation process in terms of timing? As it sounds like most of what you did was cosmetic, were there any permits/approvals required? If so, how was that timing? The total you you spent seems very reasonable, was that final amount consistent with the bids or where there a lot of unexpected costs and fees?

Also, for the flooring? Would you mind sharing the cost of the labor and materials (per sm) and what type of flooring you had removed and what it was replaced with?

The contractor who did the flooring had worked with us on the apartment, so we didn't get other bids.  We already trusted him and he usually does more than the original agreement.  There were no surprises.  If he needed something he would go get it. 

He took away all of the debris.

Most of the projects were less than one week.  They repainted the entire apartment, including ceilings over a weekend.  The apartment is 106m2.  Two bedrooms, two baths, large livingroom, dining room combo.

The flooring was installed over 10 day period while we were on vacation.  It was perfect and clean when we returned.  I don't exactly know how long it took.  They moved everything and put it back.

For the flooring we used is  the grade of flooring that would be used in a store.  More durable, scratch and water resistant.

The floor materials was about €2,000and the labor was €1,700. 

We have a Labrador Retriever, a highly energetic, crazy dog.  So, we wanted something more durable.  We play fetch in the apartment so she's always running.  No scratches.

We used the following type of flooring.

"Passage and use    Class 33: professional use any public place, intensive passage".

It runs about €35 a box which contains 7 pieces, €22.99 m2. I measured the rooms in meters, calculated the total square meters then added 10% to the total.  We had less than one box leftover.

https://www.leroymerlin.pt/produtos/pavimentos-e-revestimentos/pavimento-vinilico/pavimento-vinilico-flutuante/pavimento-vinilico-flutuante-extreme-artens-harmony-zaragoza-89973267.html

We had flooring that was about 20 years old.  The plastic laminate was coming loose in several areas and it had spots where chairs or other items had sat.  If I sat on a chair I would leave spots.

Appreciate the insight from everyone here so thank you up front.

Has anyone recently done a full renovation, and if so what kind of costs per square meter were you quoted/paid? I know this can be a touchy subject so even ball park is fine. It appears with further research we may have contacted the higher end architects in our first round of inquiries.

Or even if people have experience in cost of a bore hole, plumbing, adding waste management systems to a property etc. I would just love more insight (2022-now) rather than the general numbers fired around from 10 years ago.

I really appreciate any insight so thank you all for being so welcoming.

@JohnnyPT Hi JohnnyPT. Are the prices mentioned on Idealista based upon the asking rice on the website or the prices actually paid at the notary office.

I always think that "real" prices should be available, because the notary offices should have them and the Financas should has them as well and could publish them.

@Andrew Rockwell

Hi, the same renovations would have cost over double the costs in France !  Hail Portugal !

@JohnnyPT Hi JohnnyPT. Are the prices mentioned on Idealista based upon the asking rice on the website or the prices actually paid at the notary office.
I always think that "real" prices should be available, because the notary offices should have them and the Financas should has them as well and could publish them.
-@nz7521137

Hi Tom,

I really can't tell you. The deed prices are not the real ones either. If there is no bank loan, i.e. bank appraisal involved, the buyer and seller agree on a value below the true value so that both pay less taxes... it is hard to have a 100% correct sale value .... there is another problem, if in a certain neighborhood, they make a set of buildings for a medium-high/high segment market, this radically changes the median price practiced in the whole neighborhood, which may not be the true one for the remaining houses sold in that neighborhood.

The value of the property in the finance office (caderneta predial), is also not the market value nor the sale value. It is a value defined by the tax authority, based on a set of criteria and parameters, applicable to all properties in Portugal. And it is based on this evaluation that the property tax (IMI) is calculated.

@Andrew Rockwell Hi Andrew, could you provide me with the contact info for this contractor?

Building & Renovation

https://www.angloinfo.com/algarve/direc … vation-280

@Andrew Rockwell Thank you for sharing such detailed insights! I've just started my journey looking for the perfect property in Porto. It sounds like your contractor was a good friend, does he possibly have a website or email for more renovation work in Porto?

Thank you!

@Andrew Rockwell

Thats very useful and informative breakdown !

Thanks for sharing

Glenn

@JohnnyPT

Thank you , great source for services !

Appreciate the question and the responses.  Just adding my experience... We purchased a T3+1 condo in Nazare, and got the first quote for the renovations just today.  It's a 3 br/2bath + separate attic unit with 1 bath and a large room which we want to convert into a 1 br + kitchentte.  Our list below includes quite a bit of work, but not really a full remodel since we are keeping floors and all of the kitchen cabinets.    So including the labor plus materials, the quote is around 46k Euros.  This seems quite unreasonably high, and doesn't even include new kitchen appliances.  We are now getting multiple bids to compare.  It's tough to manage this renovation remotely (we are in the US), I'm now checking to see if we can find any project managers there to facilitate and do quality checks.

Our Scope of Work:

Fix wall cracks + paint (entire unit including attic)

Install radiators (entire unit including attic)

Install water boiler in kitchen

Replace all rusty metal items (handles on doors and cabinets, all faucets and drains (including attic))

Replace outdoor sink +faucet

replace kitchen sink

Close ceiling opening in living room

Install light fixtures in all rooms

M. Bath: Extend shower (110cm) + install glass doors  + change toilet + replace vanity (70cm) + install mirror + change tile

Hall Bath: replace tile+ replace vanity/sink (modern look) + install mirror + install glass shower door + remove bidet + change toilet and move it out a little (too close to wall)

Install exhaust fans in all 3 baths

Fix grout in floor tiles corners

Open up living room: Knock out half of LV/hallway wall to have half wall w/ countertop + remove door/frame

Clean and paint fireplace enclosure (rusty metal?)

Install hooks and towel bars for towels/clothes (including attic)

Attic:

Create kitchenette in attic (w/ fridge space, sink, cabinets/drawers, stove or cooktop)

Extend shower in bath (110x90) + add glass shower door + install mirror + change toilet + change vanity

Create bedroom in attic with plasterboard wall + door

Install 4 windows in attic (swing up window for the largest one)

@Nikki DMello

hi

Let me know if you need help finding a project manager

I'm in the process of buying a place in porto (closing in 14 days) and vetting local suppliers for a remodel

happy to chat and share information

You will need someone on the ground, there's no other way...

@jamescherowbrier - I would also love to know. I plant to make an offer on a "ruin" house in Campanha, Porto, that might be able to get away with a full reno without licensing since I probably won't need to add extra walls.  BUT no telling until an architect gets inside.  I have been quoted 800-1500 eur per SqM (the 1500 is apparently with Camera permitting).  I also want to finance the purchase to save cash for the reno but not sure bank will allow it. 

    @Andrew Rockwell Thank you for sharing such detailed insights! I've just started my journey looking for the perfect property in Porto. It sounds like your contractor was a good friend, does he possibly have a website or email for more renovation work in Porto?
Thank you!
   

    -@Cimona

I'm in the same boat, Cimona!  Would also love any referrals for architect and contractor. I've also contacted Savvy Cat Realty who apparently has a project management service package where they look over quotes, make referrals to known contractors and check on the building work, etc.

@Andrew Rockwe

Hi reading your post about your purchase in Rio Tronto, who is the realtor.

I am researching many places, besides Porto, thus place seems to be closer to all amenities and Transport action.

Any suggestions as to a good Realtor, or ideas would be welcome.

Looking to buy and visit , until I do retire.

Best

    @Nikki DMello
hi
Let me know if you need help finding a project manager
I'm in the process of buying a place in porto (closing in 14 days) and vetting local suppliers for a remodel
happy to chat and share information
You will need someone on the ground, there's no other way...
   

    -@Gal Misgav

Would love a referral for a project manager if in the Porto area 😁. Thanks for sharing!!

Hi

anyone here knows good contractor for renovation work in Braga city, plz share cobta details.

regards

@jamescherowbrier

Hi James 

i just got a bit concerned when i read your email. Just fyi I got quoted 900 per sqm here in the algarve to build a brand new house from scratch. therefore i would expect the renovation cost to be much lower here, furthermore i would expect prices in central to be lower than south.

good luck 🤞

@Mydeliveries wow - I think they have under quoted you - before covid it was in the region of 1500€ per sq metre in the Algarve - now it is way more - my friend in Meco is paying 3000€ per sq metre

@jamescherowbrier ask what is included..!!!

A new roof may be portugurse style not insulated and seeing the roofziles...

Be precise!!! New electric extra circuit for oven washing maschine, induction, ac. Floorheating..

What finish of render...

Whst windoes?? Thermic cuts? Double glazed, triple glazed?

Floor a wall onsulszion??