I'm looking to buy a business in the Philippines. Any advice?

JustCallMeBrandon said . . . I cannot talk about my pension entitlement, NI contributions (or lack thereof) and other such matters without disclosing personal details that could be used to work out my identity (I'm fairly well known in my field).

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I know who you are  . . . . Any income from China, Russia or Romania?

JustCallMeBrandon said . . . I cannot talk about my pension entitlement, NI contributions (or lack thereof) and other such matters without disclosing personal details that could be used to work out my identity (I'm fairly well known in my field).
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I know who you are . . . . Any income from China, Russia or Romania?
-@Enzyte Bob

LOL, you got in it one!

I'm a Russian terrorist. I fled to the UK but all my funding still comes from the Russian secret service. Oh, yeah, a bit comes from China.

Romania? What's that? Like a country or something?

JustCallMeBrandon said . . . I cannot talk about my pension entitlement, NI contributions (or lack thereof) and other such matters without disclosing personal details that could be used to work out my identity (I'm fairly well known in my field).
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I know who you are . . . . Any income from China, Russia or Romania?
-@Enzyte Bob
LOL, you got in it one!

I'm a Russian terrorist. I fled to the UK but all my funding still comes from the Russian secret service. Oh, yeah, a bit comes from China.

Romania? What's that? Like a country or something?
-@JustCallMeJoe

Dolly the sheep was also well known in her field.

@JustCallMeJoe

I haven't visited the Philippines ever

I can't help feeling you are putting the proverbial cart before the horse. You have visited several developing/emerging market countries by your own admission which is a good thing.

Each country is different in the ways they conduct business. Most successful entrepreneurs over the years are blessed with a sixth sense but this will not come about until you have spent some time in the intended country of your investment. There is only so much background reading and research you can do.

@JustCallMeJoe


You have visited several developing/emerging market countries by your own admission which is a good thing.


-@Lotus Eater

Not "visited". I lived in and ran businesses there. I have no doubt I'll be able to manage running a business in the Philippines if I end up living there!

This thread is early stage research to make interesting connections prior to my exploratory trip (as stated in the OP) in a couple of months. The intent is that while I'm there I could meet with key people and I'm trying to line up some meetings now. I've already got a couple of meetings booked including with a well known accountancy / corporate finance firm that advises on mid-market transactions (auditing / forensic accounting / due diligence / tax planning / legal formalities).

The process of buying a business can take 6-9 months in the UK. I daresay that share transfers and other formalities take a lot longer there! If I start my investigation only after getting the SRRV, that'll put me a bit behind.

While speculation about my background, warnings about running sari sari shops and jokes about sheep is all very interesting, may I return readers to what I'm actually looking for:

Anyone has any suggestions on getting information / finding businesses for sale, apart from going to businessesforsale.com type portals? I'd rather look at off-market opportunities ie businesses not already listed for sale but where the owner could be persuaded to sell for the right price. I'm not looking for cafes / pubs / sari sari stores etc. I'm looking for something generating $100K - $500K in annual profit (not revenue) - perhaps a manufacturing business, a BPO or Virtual Assistant provider, maybe something in logistics / recycling / green energy / automotive / something else.

@JustCallMeJoe

This thread is early stage research to make interesting connections prior to my exploratory trip (as stated in the OP) in a couple of months.

I shall be in the Philippines for the whole of November. In Makati on business 1st week and then island hopping. My 'in house' masseuse is currently in Panglao so I have booked a week there at a French run boutique hotel set back from Alona beach for peace and quiet PM me if you're in town.

@Lotus Eater Most successful entrepreneurs over the years are blessed with a sixth sense

No most are not, most successful entrepreneurs just had luck, especially the luck of good timing. Surely more then 90% of them as case studies from the IT world show. Finding a successful entrepreneurs who is able to reproduce his success again is what you have to look for before you listen to someone.

Can you elaborate on successful entrepreneurs as most I have witnessed make many great decisions and the one off's are brought off and squashed by the serious money makers.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

@JustCallMeJoe

I'm looking for something generating $100K - $500K in annual profit (not revenue) - perhaps a manufacturing business, a BPO or Virtual Assistant provider, maybe something in logistics / recycling / green energy / automotive / something else.

I think you are what we call in german a "Dampfplauderer" , a hot air talker.

For the third time you talk about $100k without telling us on what base investment you want that. A business can make $100k in profit and is shit if it requires $100 million in investment. So what ROI are you looking at? 5%?  And you are obvious if you are not interested in the business itself why don't you do it the way most of us invest in businesses, with stock options. Yeah i know only around 5000 companies in the world have public traded stocks. And for sure very few businesses in the Philippines.

I think it will be very business. All the people who want to sell to you will be almost fraud level investments. It's so hard to create a working business here, once done, people don't want to sell it. This business model is mostly just UK/USA/AU style of doing things. And if you want to get good deals on personal level, learn to speak Mandarin first, because the majority of well run mid sized businesses are in chinese hands.

@JustCallMeJoe

For the third time you talk about $100k without telling us on what base investment you want that. A business can make $100k in profit and is shit if it requires $100 million in investment..
-@Lothar Scholz

With the greatest of respect, you've no idea what you're talking about.

Businesses are priced largely on multiples of EBITDA ie multiples of profit. There are some exceptions like accountancy practices which are priced in multiples of gross recurring fees. In specific areas of high growth (usually tech businesses), where most of the revenue is recurring revenue, prices are sometimes quoted in multiples of turnover. There are only two exceptions to the above: where there are significant net assets on the balance sheet or where there is significant value in non-balance sheet assets (such as intellectual property).

Businesses are not sold based on how much investment they need. That's utter ballcocks. In fact, if a business needs investment, that would be the time to not buy it. The ideal time for a business owner to sell the business is not when the business needs something. Such "need" puts the vendor at a distinct disadvantage.

What are the going multiples of EBITDA? There are public stats (or "comps" - comparative prices) available that show businesses of this size going for 2x to 8x EBITDA (the variation is dependent on numerous factors which are beyond the scope of this post). The 100X EBITDA etc you may see for the likes of Facebook don't apply to small businesses like these.

In any case, I'm not asking for investment, I'm not attempting to sell you anything, I'm not trying to establish credibility (and have consciously shied away from providing personal information). I'm not looking for investment advice.

My thread was to see if anyone here had any ideas of where to find such businesses in the Philippines given the lack of a developed M&A market, not to establish that I am capable of funding such an acquisition. It was also to find, perhaps, someone who has already bought a business of that size and who could share contacts details of the professionals (lawyers / accountants etc) who assisted through the transaction.

Your tip about Chinese ownership is useful and reflects what I've been hearing from local professionals. So I'll bear that in mind. The rest was pretty useless and tries to sound knowledgable about something on which you seem to know next to nothing.

I wonder if we are talking about buying a business in the philippines on this platform and throwing terms like EBITDA, it gives me an impression this conversation is like wishful or reminiscing past involvement in a large corporation. Does expat.com has audience that will have influence in large business transactions? I will go to the golf course instead. For a sari-sari store type business, you're in the right place. Just my opinion.

I wonder if we are talking about buying a business in the philippines on this platform and throwing terms like EBITDA, it gives me an impression this conversation is like wishful or reminiscing past involvement in a large corporation.
-@Jackson4

No, that is very much the language for this particular market. I've spoken with local professionals there now, as I've recently mentioned, discussed valuations with them, and I even posted about how the multiples there compare with here in the UK.

This is "Main Street" language ...as opposed to "Wall Street" terminology which is very different. And it's very much the same language used in the PH M&A industry as I understand from discussions I've had with professionals on the ground there.

But, yes, it does look like I'm wasting my time in this thread. I'm unlikely to get the information I was seeking. People, bar the odd exception, lacking the ability to comment intelligently or contribute with pertinent answers, keep taking the thread off on tangents.

So I am going to abandon this thread now.

@JustCallMeJoe yes your in the wrong page,a small business  you might find some help

JustCallMeJoe said . . . . . People, bar the odd exception, lacking the ability to comment intelligently or contribute with pertinent answers, keep taking the thread off on tangents.

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My true experience . . . . I once bet on a horse named Bye Bye Joe at Sportsman Park in Chicago and lost my money.

Only an observation to Joe/members but you as the OP with your undiluted abounding knowledge and experience came to an expat site for help, what did you expect? It's an expat site not a business directory.

Most here are retired, made their money and retired here and are well aware that as a foreigner doing any form of business here can be fraught with danger.

Given your statements in this thread I see a lot of immaturity even thinking about lobbing your asks on a bunch of retired guys. There are plenty of professional brokers here that can take you to the cleaners, pity we couldn't.

Sorry to speak my mind but I tend to agree with Okie and Bob.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

@JustCallMeJoe Investment i'm talking about is your investment not that of the company needing a new truck or machine. How much are you willing to pay for a business. Just to restrict the search range.

You can go to places like Sunbelt Asia who unforunately seem to not announce their offered businesses anymore.

But i followed their offers for years and they never failed to entertain me more then a feature double of The Simpsons and Silicon Valley could ever do. But they are still in the business as their active Facebook profile  shows for example a Gem Export business just 3 days ago. But they are mostly about Thailand and not Philippines even if they try to be "Asia" and not Sunbelt Thailand.

But even there, established businesses outside the hospitality and restaurants domain are very hard to find. Again, they are just not traded this way.

    @***

What are you selling mate?

Cheers, Steve.

There are two posts above from linkinricpark and one from bigpearl that show currently as [Post under review]. 

I don't know what those posts say as their content is currently hidden but, as I mentioned earlier, I'm not interested in pursuing this conversation and shall now "unsubscribe" from this thread (something I forgot to do earlier). I won't then get notifications of any carping / whining / posturing / trolling from dimwits in the bucket seats.

If anyone has anything constructive to add, they would need to DM me as I won't be checking in the thread.

Bye.

Cheers, Steve.

    There are two posts above from linkinricpark and one from bigpearl that show currently as [Post under review].     

    -@JustCallMeJoe

Adverts with contact details are normally removed from the forum.

My apologies to bigpearl - You quoted the ad

I simply quoted the perpetrator, little less and we see this crap all the time Fred as you are well aware.

Cheers, Steve.

Poor JustCallMeJoe

You waded through over a 100 responses since your initial post so just now you lambasted the replies and decided to leave.

Poor Joe wanted a business with over 100K in profits. Joe is that 100K in Pesos, Dollars, Euros or Bitcoins?

Lotsa Luck Joe

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If anyone has anything constructive to add, they would need to DM me as I won't be checking in the thread.
   

    -@JustCallMeJoe

He must have a higher opinion of himself than the average joe blow if he thinks we are going to stand in line to DM him. Also, I think there may be areas in the forum more suitable for discussing business ideas. I would defer to others for business ideas as I get plenty of ideas to start up business schemes from in-laws

My neighbour has the only 7/11 in Calinan Davao city, it is small but he is doing good, he started with about 5 million pesos

I have something for you.l will wait for your direct reply on my messenger.Raymond Patterson.

Hi @justcallmejoe. I haven't been in this forum for awhile now but I saw your post and wanted to find out if you found the business you wanted to invest in yet. Let me know if you are still interested so I can share a few ideas that might help you.

I was in a similar situation when I decided to buy a business in Canada. Initially, I made a few exploratory trips to understand the market and local regulations. Like you, I had significant business experience, but I found that local knowledge and connections were crucial.

I focused on sectors that were fully open to foreign ownership. I navigated through various sources and found that a lot of information came from talking to locals and networking. Eventually, I found a website listing different business for sale Canada. I ended up buying a small logistics company for around $250K.

The process involved thorough due diligence, hiring local commercial lawyers, and understanding the nuances of the local market.

Jeepnee

Buy a condo and rent it out.

You will need to found a company, get a business permit and a permit from the department of tourism to do so.

Expect an income from 50 to 70 USD per night. You can get a condo for 120K USD.

This is what the people try to sell you.

Good or bad investment? Who can compute the ROI?

Andy from Boracay

well you can buy my business, which is making a profit, but 100k is 1/10th lol

@JustCallMeJoe hi joe, i have a complete resort for sale and 30,000 square metres of land. you need you look at philippine beach land

    Why would any sane individual wish to invest in any type of business in one of the most opaque corrupt emerging markets in the world.
    -@Lotus Eater

Many invest in the very corrupt USA... 

There are much better potentials in Phils when knowing how...

@Andy_1963 You can't be serious with your numbers.

        Why would any sane individual wish to invest in any type of business in one of the most opaque corrupt emerging markets in the world.     -@Lotus EaterMany invest in the very corrupt USA...  There are much better potentials in Phils when knowing how...         -@coach53

Oh really Coach? Lets see now. America's share of the world's stockmarket capitalisation now stands at 61% and yet Uncle Sam accounts for about 25% of global GDP. Are you saying that you know better than worldwide fund managers and asset managers such as Vanguard and BlackRock the two largest in the world? Why not share your omnipotent investment knowledge on this Forum and give us hard evidence i.e facts of investment returns you have made hitherto in the Philippines rather than pumping out hot air.

Petulance rings a bell.

Cheers, Steve.

Lotus Eater said . . . .Oh really Coach? Why not share your omnipotent investment knowledge on this Forum and give us hard evidence i.e facts of investment returns you have made hitherto in the Philippines rather than pumping out hot air.

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Lotus how dare you picking on Coach, he has experience in pumping hot air into beach balls at Ikea.

I'm glad I unsubscribed from this thread and haven't visited it in months. Returning to it now I see a lot of sad carping and whining rather than constructive comments. I'll make this post and maybe go away for a few more months.

        "Poor Joe wanted a business with over 100K in profits. Joe is that 100K in Pesos, Dollars, Euros or Bitcoins?" - @Enzyte Bob

Duh, if you had half the brain cells you think you have, you'd have read the original post before making that inane comment.

"He must have a higher opinion of himself than the average joe blow if he thinks we are going to stand in line to DM him."  -@danfinn

Er, I was hoping for intelligent comments from people in the know so, no, I wasn't waiting for you to stand in line!

And I got that. I've had numerous messages, many from people who've owned, bought and sold businesses in the Philippines, including from the likes of coach53 (who now knows who I am and knows my professional background). I've made several interesting contacts and moved selected conversations to email / Whatsapp ...and I've met 3 people in person. I'll be in the Philippines in Oct/Nov this year for further discussions with them.

So, to that extent, this thread has served its purpose. Thank you, expat.com.

-@LuisCavalho - Thank you for your input.

JustCallMeJoe said. . . .    I'm glad I unsubscribed from this thread and haven't visited it in months. I'll make this post and maybe go away for a few more months.
       
I've had numerous messages, many from people who've owned, bought and sold businesses in the Philippines, including from the likes of coach53.

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Yes good Idea go away and you keep away, take coach53 with you.

          Good to know you hooked up with good old 53, the famous coach.  You are correct, having met the coach you do not need anyone else on here, all downhill now.

@JustCallMeJoe

I've had numerous messages, many from people who've owned, bought and sold businesses in the Philippines, including from the likes of coach53.

Did he show you the books? Why not go into partnership with him? You would make a dream team.