Abusing the system !

good serious topic.I like this part

"we need professional expats who come to work legally, tourists who come to enjoy their time and stimulate the economy "

Ahmad

First of all, I would like to express my deepest respect to you for posting this important critical topic, as I was just talking about the same issue with some of my expat friends in Egypt, although some are legal and most are illegal

Well,talking about that Egypt is very hospitable for foreigners is true and in the same time is unfair for Egyptians, as its easy to get a visa while visiting Egypt in the port as you mentioned above only by 15 $ while for Egyptians to travel abroad you can wait for a month or even can be cancelled and you have to pay about 60 $ more or less!

It means that we have to change definitely some rules or at least make some restrictions for entering our beloved country.

As other countries embassies demands see your bank statement or the hotel reservation bla bla bla bla.... and am sure we are not less than others!

Anyway, some expats who are professional with high education are of course working here legally , with working visa and most of them are working in multinational companies which is well know to all of us, and even schools.

Others, can only come here with a tourist visa for a month then this visa will be expired and I really know cases their visa is expired from more than 9 years and some are expired about 7 or 8 months (am not talking about some one specific now, as its an open discussion), anyway breaking rules nowadays will be faced by hard laws and rules!

Meanwhile no one can encourage breaking rules, but every one have his own reason for breaking his tourist visa, some come only to marry then get 5 years visa then Egyptian nationality and can pay any amount in order to have this kind of service (I know cases).

Some come to work in Sharm el Sheikh, Hurghada or Taba or even in Spa's or any kind of centers by a tourist visa then after they realize that the visa is broken or expired may be they will start to search for a way to get legal visa.

Nowadays most of the work owners understood that the employers must have legal visa in order to avoid any kind of penalty for the company or organization that’s why most of my friends left Egypt and will never be able to come back and others are searching for a way to have legal visa after paying some amount of money as a penalty

If I reported about the illegal here I guess most of the Hotels and clubs will be empty!

Of course we want good for our country citizens who are well educated more than SOME if the others to have any kind of opportunity to work

Plus All Expats who come to enjoy our historical hypnotizing country are most welcomed as long as its for tourist visits only but please don’t think to break your visa limit in order to prevent troubles to yourself

And our econmoy is up nowadyas because of the legal tourists


Remember egypt is a dream for most of the people

PS: am not talking about some one specific! As this case happens in every country not only in Egypt

Peace!

morning guys,

i'm going to read the posts in depth later but have to say BRAVO!!

there should be a condition of hiring egyptian citizens first for ANY job. then, and only through the course of publically posting job vacancies, should an expat be hired.

that may not make me popular but you have a HUGE workforce that is unemployed.

egyptians are not inferior and multinational corporations should not be permitted to operate in egypt without a mandated quota on egyptian representation in their headcount.

your country has talented and over educated people that cannot find work. it is insane to hire a foreigner for a job which an egyptian would have equal to superior skills and proficiencies.

good topic guys.

now i gotta get back to work. (excuse any mispellings...)

Salam



k


It really makes no sense to have unemployed Egyptians and at the same time have illegal aliens working without permit. All nations of the world have measures to prevent this and for instance in the EU you cannot hire a foreigner unless you cannot find an EU citizen/legal resident to fill this job. Of course experienced/professional expats who come legally and have their residence visa and work permit sponsored by their employers are more than welcome.

not sure if you recall me mentioning a UNDP report i read...well here's a direct quote:

2010 Egypt Human Development Report
"...As expected, unemployment ranks high as a problem. It is highest among those who seek jobs for the first time, given that for many, their education has not equipped them with the skills required by the labor market, and by the private sector in particular. Unemployment levels are especially evident for university graduates and for graduates from the technical stream of education. The most affected group in this regard is young women, whose participation rate has for the first time in a decade, gone below 20%. Entire segments of Egypt’s young, educated females have either exited or never entered the labor market because of the very poor working conditions, including low pay, and long hours. This argues for an integrated strategy for growth, job creation and social security, as well as targeted educational interventions to help young people overcome the specific skills and vocational barriers they face in entering and remaining in the labor market."

and if you care to read the report it is long and of course locals already live the day to day reality, but for those expats who might want some insight into the social economic forces at play, its worth the read. the numbers are staggering...following are direct quotes:

- those aged 18-29 number 19.8 million. This segment is larger than ever before and is thus described as a "youth bulge"
- youth exclusion leads to ‘waithood,’ a period during which they simply wait for their lives to begin
- they wait in long periods of unemployment, living with parents, and unable to pursue marriage or home ownership
- rural youth account for 59% of Egypt’s total youth, yet they account for 85% of Egypt’s poor youth

some promising quotes:
- as the age groups 18-24 and 25-34  have the highest entrepreneurial rates of 12% and 15% respectively, Egypt’s youth give it a strong “entrepreneurial advantage” which has the potential to create the majority of jobs and enterprises in the coming years
- entrepreneurship needs to start from ownership of some asset in addition to human capital and providing youth with physical capital assets will thus open new avenues of employment and prosperity; the purpose is to introduce a key element that caters both for distributive justice and for good investment fundamentals


here's the link to the report - it's in arabic and english
http://www.undp.org.eg/Default.aspx?tabid=227

salam,

k

(Ahmad - sorry for going off on a tangent! i feel so strongly about this issue as you can see)

Absolutely agree, rules are rules! Although it can be quite a hassle getting a long-term work permit/visa still, it's easy compared to what you guys have to do to come to the UK or the US

Very nice topic, thank you for sharing it, and I completely agree with you, rules are rules, and it is not allowed to break it
And I like this part alot which is "we do not need leeches who come to work illegally in jobs that need no training or qualification and complicate the unemployment problem furthermore"
I agree as we do really need to enhance the conditions here, and to hire expats who are really honest and caring to work properly &legally, not to break the rules and to encourage others to do that as I have seen here.

Well said Ahmed and I like your way of thinking alot, it is really very well written
Thank you

Katyusha wrote:

not sure if you recall me mentioning a UNDP report i read...well here's a direct quote:

2010 Egypt Human Development Report
"...As expected, unemployment ranks high as a problem. It is highest among those who seek jobs for the first time, given that for many, their education has not equipped them with the skills required by the labor market, and by the private sector in particular. Unemployment levels are especially evident for university graduates and for graduates from the technical stream of education. The most affected group in this regard is young women, whose participation rate has for the first time in a decade, gone below 20%. Entire segments of Egypt’s young, educated females have either exited or never entered the labor market because of the very poor working conditions, including low pay, and long hours. This argues for an integrated strategy for growth, job creation and social security, as well as targeted educational interventions to help young people overcome the specific skills and vocational barriers they face in entering and remaining in the labor market."

and if you care to read the report it is long and of course locals already live the day to day reality, but for those expats who might want some insight into the social economic forces at play, its worth the read. the numbers are staggering...following are direct quotes:

- those aged 18-29 number 19.8 million. This segment is larger than ever before and is thus described as a "youth bulge"
- youth exclusion leads to ‘waithood,’ a period during which they simply wait for their lives to begin
- they wait in long periods of unemployment, living with parents, and unable to pursue marriage or home ownership
- rural youth account for 59% of Egypt’s total youth, yet they account for 85% of Egypt’s poor youth

some promising quotes:
- as the age groups 18-24 and 25-34  have the highest entrepreneurial rates of 12% and 15% respectively, Egypt’s youth give it a strong “entrepreneurial advantage” which has the potential to create the majority of jobs and enterprises in the coming years
- entrepreneurship needs to start from ownership of some asset in addition to human capital and providing youth with physical capital assets will thus open new avenues of employment and prosperity; the purpose is to introduce a key element that caters both for distributive justice and for good investment fundamentals


here's the link to the report - it's in arabic and english
http://www.undp.org.eg/Default.aspx?tabid=227

salam,

k

(Ahmad - sorry for going off on a tangent! i feel so strongly about this issue as you can see)

Kathryn,all of us do really appreciate your feelings towards Egypt & Egyptians. I felt from your way here that you do really love Egypt from the heart and you are honestly caring alot to enhance the conditions here and the unemployment problems

Feel as if you are egyptian from inside but you are trying to hide that;) kidding

Thanks again my canadian friend and we are looking forward to see you soon
Tc
Cheers

Well I replied one topic in which I mentioned this way around. Well let me clear one thing this only happens when the work permit is already in process but since the process is long so people and I my self used other work around.

And just to clear one thing since you are not an expat so you might not know what happens in reality. This idea is actually suggested by the people working in visa office above all its the govt who put the stamp so govt. is to be blamed not the expats helping expats.

Secondly I do respect your thought and to some point I do agree with your Idea but again if someone intentionally is doing work on visit visa without applying for the work permit then Employer is the one who should be blame first

I am not advocating misusing the system but system has to be correct if there are flaws.  You have to understand that Egypt is a tourist country and in any tourist country visa  policies are lenient towards foreigners and that is how it goes . Malaysia  is one of its example



To cut it short I agree working people should get work permit to make it legle and local egyptians should not hire without applying for work visa !

alimirza wrote:

Well I replied one topic in which I mentioned this way around. Well let me clear one thing this only happens when the work permit is already in process but since the process is long so people and I my self used other work around.

This is a totally different story. Having a work permit in progress means it's legal (or at least on its way to be legal)

alimirza wrote:

And just to clear one thing since you are not an expat so you might not know what happens in reality. This idea is actually suggested by the people working in visa office above all its the govt who put the stamp so govt. is to be blamed not the expats helping expats.

I am not an expat but I have seen how stupid the government can be. Only way I could get married to my wife (because she's Ukrainian, all Egyptian men marrying women from Ex-Soviet Union countries go through this bullsh*t) was to get married 3orfy (common-law), then use this 3orfy contract (+ embassy approval to her getting married) to get her a 6-month temp residence visa (after an Immigration Police interview for both of us and State Security background check !), then use this 6 month temp residence visa + embassy approval to get married legally ..... then use the legal marriage contract to get her a 5-year residence visa (which we applied for only 6 days after we received the first visa, yet we needed yet another background check, like something would change in 6 days about her) !!!

Understand anything

and this workaround - too - was given to me by the government employees at the ministry of justice (foreigner marriage registrar office), because for any Ex-Soviet Union citizen, they need to have a non-tourist residence visa valid for 6 month before they can marry an Egyptian ..... So you get married (3orfy) to get a visa (6 month) to get married (legally) to get a visa (5 years) ..... hehehehehehe

alimirza wrote:

Secondly I do respect your thought and to some point I do agree with your Idea but again if someone intentionally is doing work on visit visa without applying for the work permit then Employer is the one who should be blame first

It's a two way street. Employer should take bigger blame, bigger penalty .....etc., but employee too is to be blamed. I mean, if I offer you now money to do something illegal for me, we both go to jail ..... It's the same but at a much-less-criminal level.

alimirza wrote:

I am not advocating misusing the system but system has to be correct if there are flaws.  You have to understand that Egypt is a tourist country and in any tourist country visa  policies are lenient towards foreigners and that is how it goes . Malaysia  is one of its example

Yes of course, but people should never abuse lenient tourist visa regulations ......

alimirza wrote:

To cut it short I agree working people should get work permit to make it legle and local egyptians should not hire without applying for work visa !

+1

semsema135 wrote:

Very nice topic, thank you for sharing it, and I completely agree with you, rules are rules, and it is not allowed to break it
And I like this part alot which is "we do not need leeches who come to work illegally in jobs that need no training or qualification and complicate the unemployment problem furthermore"
I agree as we do really need to enhance the conditions here, and to hire expats who are really honest and caring to work properly &legally, not to break the rules and to encourage others to do that as I have seen here.

Well said Ahmed and I like your way of thinking alot, it is really very well written
Thank you

Thank you for reading such a long post

don moe wrote:

Ahmad

First of all, I would like to express my deepest respect to you for posting this important critical topic, as I was just talking about the same issue with some of my expat friends in Egypt, although some are legal and most are illegal

Well,talking about that Egypt is very hospitable for foreigners is true and in the same time is unfair for Egyptians, as its easy to get a visa while visiting Egypt in the port as you mentioned above only by 15 $ while for Egyptians to travel abroad you can wait for a month or even can be cancelled and you have to pay about 60 $ more or less!

It means that we have to change definitely some rules or at least make some restrictions for entering our beloved country.

As other countries embassies demands see your bank statement or the hotel reservation bla bla bla bla.... and am sure we are not less than others!

Anyway, some expats who are professional with high education are of course working here legally , with working visa and most of them are working in multinational companies which is well know to all of us, and even schools.

Others, can only come here with a tourist visa for a month then this visa will be expired and I really know cases their visa is expired from more than 9 years and some are expired about 7 or 8 months (am not talking about some one specific now, as its an open discussion), anyway breaking rules nowadays will be faced by hard laws and rules!

Meanwhile no one can encourage breaking rules, but every one have his own reason for breaking his tourist visa, some come only to marry then get 5 years visa then Egyptian nationality and can pay any amount in order to have this kind of service (I know cases).

Some come to work in Sharm el Sheikh, Hurghada or Taba or even in Spa's or any kind of centers by a tourist visa then after they realize that the visa is broken or expired may be they will start to search for a way to get legal visa.

Nowadays most of the work owners understood that the employers must have legal visa in order to avoid any kind of penalty for the company or organization that’s why most of my friends left Egypt and will never be able to come back and others are searching for a way to have legal visa after paying some amount of money as a penalty

If I reported about the illegal here I guess most of the Hotels and clubs will be empty!

Of course we want good for our country citizens who are well educated more than SOME if the others to have any kind of opportunity to work

Plus All Expats who come to enjoy our historical hypnotizing country are most welcomed as long as its for tourist visits only but please don’t think to break your visa limit in order to prevent troubles to yourself

And our econmoy is up nowadyas because of the legal tourists


Remember egypt is a dream for most of the people

PS: am not talking about some one specific! As this case happens in every country not only in Egypt

Peace!

well said

Dear all

Please be serious,myself is a new comer here for setting up a plant in SUEZ,we are also facing unnecessary delay in processing the work permits,but it never meant that we can go for illegal ways to get it- i totally agree with the article

rajpal4 wrote:

Dear all

Please be serious,myself is a new comer here for setting up a plant in SUEZ,we are also facing unnecessary delay in processing the work permits,but it never meant that we can go for illegal ways to get it- i totally agree with the article

My respect to you for respecting local regulations

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have no doubt these people moan about illegal aliens taking jobs in their own countries so why do it in another country?  If they want to work in Egypt go through the proper channels and give the jobs to those nationals who are entiltled to work and need the money. 

Many Egyptians are on the bread line and you are taking their only source of income from them.  This is unfair and as I say, you will moan about it in your own country and kick up a fuss.
There are no welfare benefits in Egypt as in USA or UK so please people do the right thing.

alexscot wrote:

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have no doubt these people moan about illegal aliens taking jobs in their own countries so why do it in another country?  If they want to work in Egypt go through the proper channels and give the jobs to those nationals who are entiltled to work and need the money. 

Many Egyptians are on the bread line and you are taking their only source of income from them.  This is unfair and as I say, you will moan about it in your own country and kick up a fuss.
There are no welfare benefits in Egypt as in USA or UK so please people do the right thing.

Very ethical and fair of you. Some people really have this stupid double standard ...... They don't mind breaking the rules and working anywhere illegally because they belong to this country or that country, but when illegal aliens take jobs that no one else wants to take in their country, they cry foul ! Good point !

Dear illegal cute female expat,

RAMADAN SALE!

Do you feel left out?
Do you feel guilty?
This brilliant article hit your conscience hard?

Get you legal residence VISA today. Have your own 'ARRANGED MARRIAGE' today - Contact me attaching a recent photo of yourself and we will contact you for further interviews!

Very limited seats available!

Ps.: This post is a joke, I don't want anyone to start a blog about me going illegal, I was just kidding.

Maklad wrote:

Dear illegal cute female expat,

RAMADAN SALE!

Do you feel left out?
Do you feel guilty?
This brilliant article hit your conscience hard?

Get you legal residence VISA today. Have your own 'ARRANGED MARRIAGE' today - Contact me attaching a recent photo of yourself and we will contact you for further interviews!

Very limited seats available!

Ps.: This post is a joke, I don't want anyone to start a blog about me going illegal, I was just kidding.

hehehehe

I saw some young men doing it as a dirty business!

Maklad wrote:

Dear illegal cute female expat,

RAMADAN SALE!

Do you feel left out?
Do you feel guilty?
This brilliant article hit your conscience hard?

Get you legal residence VISA today. Have your own 'ARRANGED MARRIAGE' today - Contact me attaching a recent photo of yourself and we will contact you for further interviews!

Very limited seats available!

Ps.: This post is a joke, I don't want anyone to start a blog about me going illegal, I was just kidding.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


and especially LOL@ Very limited seats available!

Love this post and these words really!Thumps up

Hey

Do not joke about arranged marriages my friend.  Unforunately too many British females are being paid to marry young Egyptians. It makes it incredibly difficult for Egyptian spouses to get a tourist visa to even visit he UK, never mind a residency.  Due to the fact I have been married 15 years my husband could come here to live if he jumped through hoops but thankfully he does not want to but they still do not want to give him a tourist visa to visit me while I am here nursing my dad in case he doesn't go home. Never mind his business or family or the fact everything we own is in Egypt!!!!!

alexscot wrote:

Hey

Do not joke about arranged marriages my friend.  Unforunately too many British females are being paid to marry young Egyptians. It makes it incredibly difficult for Egyptian spouses to get a tourist visa to even visit he UK, never mind a residency.  Due to the fact I have been married 15 years my husband could come here to live if he jumped through hoops but thankfully he does not want to but they still do not want to give him a tourist visa to visit me while I am here nursing my dad in case he doesn't go home. Never mind his business or family or the fact everything we own is in Egypt!!!!!

LOL@Stupid British laws (sorry no offense). So they think it could be a marriage of convenience after 15 years? LOL .....

You have no idea how ludicrous the immigration laws are in the UK but if your are european you can walk in without a visa.  viz UK is flooded with eastern Europeans which means the tighten up laws for rest of world yet again.  The sad thing is so many of them come here thinking it is the land of milk and honey only to find we are as poverty stricken as everywhere else and there are no jobs!!!!!  Just because the exchange rate makes our money attractive to people from overseas, the cost of living here has a very high inflation rate so what they earn, illegally or legally, does not even cover the cost of living.  Everything is relative.  We have many people working illegally in the UK which is why I do not condone it anywhere.  Stricter penalties for employer and employee alike!!!!!

I know I'm kind of late on my answer to this post, but wanted to make my own little contribution.
When I wanted to move here there was no way to get another visa then the tourist visa for 1 month, even though my dad is Egyptian and I had found a job here.
When I lived in Spain (a country with almost 20% of unemployment), there was a lot of immigration comming from South America, Morocco and Rumania among others- a very high % illegaly- and some of them risking their lifes on their way. You could hear comments over and over again about them taking our jobs, lowering our salraies,they should all go back.. not only in the streets but on tv and radio as well. I felt really bad for them, because I don't think anyone wants to emigrate and leave their country for no reason. A lot of these people are running away from horrible situations, war or hunger. All I want to say is that we should be more human, migration is nothing new in these world and a lot of Egyptians have emmigrated all over the world. I don't think that immigration is the real problem in this country right now.
Of course the Egyptian, law is law and I respect that, but I think it is enough punishment for them to live like that, ilegal, with no rights what so ever, not being able to visit their countries, to buy a house or a car, earning almost nothing, living in inhuman conditions, etc.
And answering to "EU you cannot hire a foreigner unless you cannot find an EU citizen/legal resident to fill this job" that might be the theory but believe me it does not correspond to reality. The companies might hire an immigrant just because it's cheaper, and in determined sectors like construction or hotel/restaurant industry, in many cases there are no contracts at all.
So, to resume, I think people do not abuse system, the system abuses people.
Salaam

aligirl, if your dad is Egyptian, you are - by law - a natural born citizen of Egypt, even if you hold other citizenships ....... and you have the right to abode (stay, work and live without permits or visas).

I do have now the visa "min asl masry" and do not need further permissions to live or work here, but to come and pass security I did need a tourist visa and sort it out in Mugamma. What I mean is that the embassys do not take any responsability in the issuance of any other visa then the 1 month tourist visa.

aligirl wrote:

I do have now the visa "min asl masry" and do not need further permissions to live or work here, but to come and pass security I did need a tourist visa and sort it out in Mugamma. What I mean is that the embassys do not take any responsability in the issuance of any other visa then the 1 month tourist visa.

You can go to Mugamma - Citizenship dept, and obtain a certificate of citizenship and subsequently a national ID card and a passport

Thanks the Egyptian

Does that mean you won't be needing my previously mentioned services? lol

Maklad wrote:

Does that mean you won't be needing my previously mentioned services? lol

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a work visa? It took me forever. No offense but I'm sure you break some "rules" as well. Did you ever drive on the wrong side of the road? Did you ever esceed the speed limit? Did you ever pass a car on the right? These rules are there for people's safety (much more important than silly old visa laws). Please read some history about how borders and visas came into being in the first place and then let's talk again.

"have unemployed Egyptians and at the same time have illegal aliens working without permit,we do not need leeches who come to work illegally in jobs that need no training or qualification and complicate the unemployment problem furthermore"

I think your putting the blame where it doesn't belong. A people are not destroyed because of their enemies, they are destroyed from within. It was your own people who hoarded your wealth and made deals with outsiders to steal your country's wealth as well.

As long as the economy is built upon capatilism it will not work. The people in America are finally waking up to this fact.

It's time that Arabs and Muslims re-live their glorious past. A people disconnected from their history is a lost people. It's funny that Egyptians or actually every Arabic country don't even speak Arabic. Do you think that happened by accident or naturally?

In my belief we should throw away passports, visas and borders, the way it used to be in the history of the Muslims and the Arabs. If the Muslim countries were united the world would be thier oyster.

Speradic ideas jumping from line to line, I know not very comrehensible, words above just my two cents, or should I say "irsh"

ExpatEnglishTeacher wrote:

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a work visa? It took me forever. No offense but I'm sure you break some "rules" as well. Did you ever drive on the wrong side of the road? Did you ever esceed the speed limit? Did you ever pass a car on the right? These rules are there for people's safety (much more important than silly old visa laws). Please read some history about how borders and visas came into being in the first place and then let's talk again.

How about illegal aliens in your home countries? How do people perceive them?

Your argument is invalid as I am talking about reciprocity ....

And a work visa is a privilege not a right.... How about a work visa for an Egyptian in Canada? Almost impossible and takes much longer time.


Here comes the double standard again ..... "It's OK for me and my countrymen to come here, overstay visas, work without permit, but if you come to my country and work illegally, I'll make sure to have you arrested and deported"

ExpatEnglishTeacher wrote:

"have unemployed Egyptians and at the same time have illegal aliens working without permit,we do not need leeches who come to work illegally in jobs that need no training or qualification and complicate the unemployment problem furthermore"

I think your putting the blame where it doesn't belong. A people are not destroyed because of their enemies, they are destroyed from within. It was your own people who hoarded your wealth and made deals with outsiders to steal your country's wealth as well.

yet another invalid argument.

All countries in the world disallow foreign workers unless there is a shortage in this specialty .....

refer to CIC (Citizenship and Immigration Canada) and read the work visa rules if you don't believe me ....

i don't know your name but i just wanted to say that i liked reading your topic
and yes i respect that, thank you

FaReSALandlos wrote:

i don't know your name but i just wanted to say that i liked reading your topic
and yes i respect that, thank you

Most welcomed. thanks for your comment.

"Here comes the double standard again ..... "It's OK for me and my countrymen to come here, overstay visas, work without permit, but if you come to my country and work illegally, I'll make sure to have you arrested and deported"

I respect every individual. Visa's and work permits are from teh evil governments of our countries, not the citizens. I hate the visa requirements for my country, Canada. I tried to get a visa for my wife, who is Egyptian, and after going through all the crap they refused. As I said in my  first post if it was up to me I would throw all the visa crap in the garbage.

I don't know your name or your religion (or even if you have one) but in Islam we have the belief that rizq is from Allah and no one can take another's rizq away. Visa requirements do not help the economy grow or prevent citizens potentiality of employment. Governments, schooling and world powerful corporations do (but that's a whole other extensive topic) 

By the way the Egyptian system of obtaining a visa promotes illegal aliens taking advantage of the system. It's a famous saying, atleast amongst foreigners, about Egypt "there is no system. I believe virtually all "systems" of Egypt are corrupted and that's one of the reasons of the people trying to make a revolution. If we can't live properly within the rules and limits of the system we sometimes have to go outside of them and break them.  I can give you a million examples,one example is; how many times have you had to bribe someone here in Egypt to get something done? If you tried to get a driver license from Giza you would of had to bribe your examiner or you would never obtain a license.

I bought a car a couple years ago and the first day I was driving down the road and there was a police road block. They pulled me over and took my information. They told me a car was stolen and my car matches it's description. After proving my innocence the police officer held my id's in his hand and when I tried to take them from them he held it with a tight grip and said he wants "halawa". So again If we can't live properly within the rules and limits of the system we sometimes have to go outside of them and break them.


SO let's first fix the system before we hold people accountable to it.

just because your mad at other countries making it so hard for Egyptians to migrate, tour, study or work there don't be upset at foreigners, we normal everyday citizens didn't make the rules; the government did. Just for your information our governments are just as corrupt as Mubarak's, but that's another story. I'm sure if you took a survey of foreigners and asked them about the rules, regulations and requirements of their countries they wouldn't like them too. We're all in the same boat, as the occupy wall street protest slogan goes, we're the 99%. It's the 1% that you should focus your anger towards

WEll said expat English teacher.

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