Mahr - marriage dowry explained

thanks for the info

what is the average fee now a days?

It vary from country to country, family status and the girl's attributes. E.g. her beauty, education etc.

According to the Islamic practice one should choose the woman for marriage based on her religious practice first, but somehow most of society sees beauty and family status as the prime qualities to look for in a bride.

I would say, it cannot be less than 10,000 EGP in Egypt. It won't be less than 50,000 SAR in Saudi Arabia + goal and gifts.

According to the Qur'an a man should spend according to his means.

But here is a phenomenal that should be pointed at, that is an increasing number of men in Egypt are trying to get 'cheap' expatriate brides who knows nothing about their islamic rights of marriage.
So not only, often they do not receive a proper dowry, but not uncommonly, the woman becomes the main bread earner.

These marriages are dishonourable and nothing to do with Islam. Christian women married to muslim men, have the same rights of Muslim women. There is no separate law applicable to them, except for kids upbringing. E.g. A child of a muslim man is muslim and should be raised in islam.

The high rates of divorce that we are experiencing in mixed marriages, is often due to men not committing at all to such marriage. It is something temporarily until they will save enough money to marry the 'true Egyptian bride' perhaps chosen in consultation with his family.

People marry 'for love' after a few months of knowing each others, and sometime after a few weeks or even days! No wonder they soon discover the person they got married too is different from what they imagined.


Most likely you will end up in a bogus or temporary marriage if:

1. The man attempts to have an intimate relation with you outside marriage.

2. He does not introduce you to his family and does not seek consent from your male relatives.

3. He says he will pay you the mahr later. (it is never going to happen).

4. He does not tie you a dowry or ask you to contribute towards it.

5. He is a hurry to marry in court, or the opposite, he does not want to marry in court (he is probably already married).

6. He does not provide you with a decent accommodation, clothing and food, or ask you to pay towards it.

7. His lifestyle is far from being a family man, he flirts with women etc,

8. He won't mind for you to wear revealing clothes in front of his friends.

If you see any of this signs, it would be wise to avoid a marriage.

This advice is based on in-depth cultural understanding of the Egyptian society and real case studies.

Hi, Thanks for all the information you are giving here.
Unfortunately, I am one of the silly women who married an Egyptian man! I am English and living in England, he is Egyptian and living in Egypt, we have never lived as man and wife as I had to return to the UK.
We married in Cairo, and everything was done in Egyptian, I have copies of the marriage paper (with the blue thumb print).
We have agreed to a divorce but he asked for 2000LE which I am not prepared to send, but I have since been told that the marriage may not be legal as no 'dowry' was paid by either of us and he made it impossible for me to live with him in Egypt??
How can I be certain that the marriage is 'null'?
Any help would be appreciated
Thanks

It is null according to Shariah, but it may be valid according to civil law.

If your marriage certificate is issued by a court in egypt, you have to prove it in court that is not valid. A word isn't sufficient.

It is not clear how the officials who supposed to follow a shariah based law are in complete breech of points that renders a contract invalid.

It is not clear also why men who have no commitment to the relationship choose a court marriage over an orfi marriage (valid islamically but not recognised as a civil marriage).

In 2010 the Egyptian Gov introduced new laws to protect foreigners from marriage scams and guarantee basic rights for the foreign spouse, but it seems the law is not applied fully.

hi thanks for the good info. I need some clarification. I was married to an Egyptian man here in Saudi Arabia. he is  muslim and I was converted. im the second wife. but until now he is keeping it secret to his first wife that he married. what to you think about this matter im confuse.

First of all, apart from religious issues, according to both Saudi and Egyptian Law a man who takes a second wife needs to inform his first wife FORMALLY. This means that when he goes to court to present the paperwork to marry the second, the court will notify his wife with or without his consent. The first wife is then ready to accept the situation or ask for divorce basically.

So, if you married in a court either in Egypt or Saudi, some irregularities must have taken place.

Going back to Saudi Law, a non GCC citizen is not allowed to sponsor 2 wives in the kingdom.
HE can only give official residence to 1 wife and bring the other on a visit visa. (3 months + 2 months renewable).

So if you are in Saudi Arabia on an official residence (iqamah) he can't bring his wife or kids to live there.

Many Egyptian men choose not to inform his first wife of their second marriage. Certain scholars condone it, but the point is he will have to keep lying to keep up witht he circumstances, and this islamically is a major sin.

Your situation is  potentially risky, unless your husband fears God. It happened in many instances that once the man return to his home land under the influence of his family, wife etc, will either abandon the second wife, or not divide the time equally, or sometime split format he first wife.

If he doe snot tell his wife it is out of convenience, or because the fears her reaction.
On the other hand some Egyptian men are 'forced' to take on a second wife, because the first is not interested in living with him. They are happy with a monthly check and live next to her family.
Often she chooses her family over her husband when he travels abroad.

It is very common to find Egyptian expatriate men work gin in the Gulf or Europe, and their wives refuse to follow them, because they do not want to leave 'mum' and Egypt.

So, really I do not blame them. At the same time they should conform with Islamic law and give the proper right to both wives.

Are you in saudi on a full iqamah or visit visa?

How long have you been married?

Where did your marriage take place?

Answering these questions might give you an insight of the situation.


PS Orfy marriage (done by  sheikh or lawyer) is NOT VALID in saudi arabia and the gulf region.
You will be arrested go to jail, and get expelled on permanent basis from the hosting country.
The only valid marriage is from a recognised court).

Thank you so much for a good information. We got married last October here in Saudi by sheikh. im holding a full iqamah under my hospital sponsor. and he is asking me to come with him in Egypt for good. can you tell me about the legality and rights of being the second wife in Egypt?

Unless you married in a court, you are actually unmarried according to  saudi law, but married in the shariah. You are incurring a big risk in saudi arabia if you entered in an unofficial relationship.

If both of you are found in the same apartment if you have been married before the punishment is stoning. Same thing, if you get pregnant you will be treated as an adulterous.

HE MUST marry you in a court. Under an official marriage done by a sheikh/ mosque you will have no rights in Egypt or Saudi or wherever. Please do ask your husband why he is not marrying you in a court?

According to Egyptian law even if the marriage takes place in a saudi court, the marriage has to be redone officially in Egypt, otherwise he cannot sponsor your residence permit.

I am really concerned about you, Saudis do not joke about extramarital relations.
The consequences can be grave. I invite you not to be alone with him again until you clarify your legal position.

"First of all, apart from religious issues, according to both Saudi and Egyptian Law a man who takes a second wife needs to inform his first wife FORMALLY. This means that when he goes to court to present the paperwork to marry the second, the court will notify his wife with or without his consent. The first wife is then ready to accept the situation or ask for divorce basically."

I am aware of more than one marriage where the husband has married a second wife and not informed the first - so I am not sure that the courts get involved in these situations, as you have stated?

Greetings,

I am a young woman under 25, and for the last year or more  I've been speaking on Skype  with an Egyptian man whose have been talking with me about coming to visit his country and get engaged to him. He will pay my Air fair, but there is a catch. At first, months back, he was going to pay for one of my family members to come as well, but he's since told me the cost is too much and just I will come. My family member is  dead-ageist this [my going alone], for the plan was that we both would go there or no one goes. Now the Egyptian man wants to come to my home and visit, and that's fine with my family, but if he cannot come into the country, he and I have agreed that I still would come to him for one month and be with his family. Another concern I have and want to address, is the matter about the address that I would stay at while with him in Egypt. He wants me to give the address of his passport to my  government, but he is living in another apartment altogether and is not at the one listed on his passport. I do have both these addresses, but he and I will rent yet a separate apartment while I am there for the duration of the visit. This raises my concern when his information may not be correct to where I will actually be while in the country. He will have his family stay in the apartment where we will live for that time, and his reason for this was that the area where he is living is a bad area and wants me to be in a descent place for my time there.  Should I trust him? My biggest worry is a marriage  of convenience where I get married and then he leaves me and uses me for sex. I really don't feel this about this person, but it's in my heart and mind to be aware of that possibility. Is there any chance he is for real? and what can I do to be sure? I have spoken with both his sister and other mother and he never has dated, according to him. The family seems loving and welcoming  of me and my possible visit.

Pay attention to your worries!!
It does sound very strange all this palaver to me!!

ANd if you come alone you will be here without any support in a very big and strange, intimidating city.

You speak Arabic?
If not don't come - but even if you do, I find once off the main roads I am completely lost (chances are if it were me I would go to the shop and never find my way home again!!) - so again you are at the mercy of this guy.
Don't do it - I really think you need to be careful.

Don't do it!!!! As Biffy said.... None of it sounds straight forward.. therefore you cannot afford to trust this person.
People can say anything when on skype.

Oh my goodness! Stay where you are!

I guess this guy and all his family would never be able to afford even a one way ticket to Vancouver 
And he s living in a bad area? And what do you think where you are going to live after your wedding?
And how you got to know him? Via Skype?
Please do yourself a favor - delete his contact, change your skype name and stay inCanada!

All the best for you

Caty

thesilentflower wrote:

I am a young woman under 25, and for the last year or more  I've been speaking on Skype  with an Egyptian man whose have been talking with me about coming to visit his country and get engaged to him..

Ok, let me put this way, you know a foreigner from Skype; you know him just about a year; you never visit his country before; you haven't  meet him personally yet; and he ask you marry him in his country; and you decide go for it? Huh...

Can I know your Skype name?

And he wants you both to rent a flat for the 2 of you!!??
His family seem supportive!!
He seems to say alot.

I was trying to be sensitive (unusual for me) - but do exactly as Caty said.
Delete and forget.
Don't even think about it - and I hope to god you haven't sent him any money, or more personal details of any kind.

To be honest I can't really believe a family member of your was going to go for it either!?  Crazy!

Just recently an English man was looking for the whereabouts of his mother in Cairo who was staying with her boyfriend/husband, he hasn't spoken to his mother since January! ( https://www.facebook.com/missingpeoplee … ts&fref=ts )

Please don't do it! You don't know Cairo AND Egypt, so you are totally depending on him! Living together is absolutely not accepted here, also an urfi is not something an Egyptian family will accept, maybe they will only agree with it because they expect some benefits (money) from your relationship.

And to go stay for a whole month with a person you never met IN person???

Can you tell us the areas of the addresses you have? So we can tell you what kind of areas that are.

Greetings all,
It was good to come home and see that people had responded fast to my earlier post, and the comments made for an interesting read.
First off, I will try to address, the living accommodations, and when I said, We will rent a separate apartment [with his family moving in there] and its not intended to be a sexual relationship (urfi) while I am staying in their home. One of his  reasons for renting this place was that it is near his work.
I want to give clarity to my situation and by that I want to say truthful, on Skype, we keep it clean. There is noting sexual within our conversations. He, the Egyptian man, speaks with my father as well Skype, and I am sure that is a weird for most everyone to believe. Finally I will ask, is there any chance that he rely does intend to remain with me?  I have asked his reason for not having  fallen in love with Good Muslim girl and he told me he did not love any one before me and that he did not think that he would fall in love online. He claims thought that he did through communication with me. I never told him that I love him. In the beginning, that Egyptian man made the claim, "I would never love a girl not from Cairo". He did not even want to consider one from Upper Egypt, saying that the traditions were too different. Now a year later, he is willing to pay for me to come to Egypt if he is not approved to come to my country for a visit. Either way, he will be the one paying the costs for the travel, and he has sent me money to start this process. I've sent him none nor did he ask. Regarding my family, I want you all to better understand that we have no money. I am a woman on a disability pension whose paying the rent for my parent who has outside issues. The young man knows I have no money neither does my family. Question: should I tell the Egyptian, that I could never sponsor  him to come here as persons with disability cannot sponsor others  to come into the country and if he than knows about this he will be fast to loose interest if he wants something from me? Also what id he does not loose interest after this?> What are peoples ideas about his intentions toward me and my family?

My family member has no money. He is on a retirement pension and suffering from other issues. I am on a disability pension, and so the man in Egypt knowns that he will be paying. What do you think his intentions toward me are? He speaks too with my father on Skype, and to add more details to the accommodations, it was not intended to be a common-law relation ship between us while I stay with them. Can there be any chance he is genuine by his intentions? The Egyptian man first wants to come to my country, on this own dollar, to visit and see if we continue our hopes of a relationship. It was agreed that if he was not allowed into my country, I would go to his. I feel he is  a good man, but I need to be sure so I am not betrayed later.

Not for just us, but for his whole family to move in there during the month I am here, for the place is closer to his work. It will not be a common-law kind of relationship. That was not the intention. My main question that I need to clear up again is why he wants me to give the address of his passport when he lives currently in another apartment from that address on the passport, and when and if I go to the said apartment he will rent for the duration I am there, it will be another all together different address He wants it handled in this way for what reason? I want to sort fact  from fiction,
Thanks,

thesilentflower wrote:

Not for just us, but for his whole family to move in there during the month I am here, for the place is closer to his work. It will not be a common-law kind of relationship. That was not the intention. My main question that I need to clear up again is why he wants me to give the address of his passport when he lives currently in another apartment from that address on the passport, and when and if I go to the said apartment he will rent for the duration I am there, it will be another all together different address He wants it handled in this way for what reason? I want to sort fact  from fiction,
Thanks,

Why should his whole family move in with u? Maybe they are homeless?... They could let a younger sister stay with u if this is for you not staying alone...
I guess whatever flat this may be - u will be the one to pay for it! And he and his family will have their share... Its a well known story here...
Whatever he says - its all to make you believe in his good intentions. Btw egyptians don't have adresses in their passports neither do germans for example... Dont know about Canada...
I wonder this guy has a passport...

Pls again - delete and forget!

If i had to question anything he told me that would be proof enough.

And of course he will tell you all these lovely things on skype, because that's what they do!!!!  I am on this site and moving to Egypt in August to be with my daughter who is currently living in Hurghada and married to an egyptian man.. and you wouldn't believe the amount of private messages i have had, also giving me there telephone numbers off egyptian men telling me they will provide a good life etc etc for me, and they don't even know me.

I told you my son-in-law is egyptian and he told me  alot of how egyptian men work on foreign women.

You wouldn't have the standard of living in egypt to what you have now in the country you are currently in.  Also the income you are  in receipt of, although it's disability is still way more than this mans salary, so it doesn't matter how many times you tell him you have no money.

Stay where you are.. no decent, respectable egyptian man would do what this man is asking..  My son-in-law says the same and he is egyptian. ( Warning )


You are asking for big trouble if you decide to do as this man asks you.

Sorry if it all sounds negative and harsh, but it's the truth.

thesilentflower wrote:

I have asked his reason for not having  fallen in love with Good Muslim girl and he told me he did not love any one before me and that he did not think that he would fall in love online.

So did he meet you and fall in love with you online? Score one!

thesilentflower wrote:

In the beginning, that Egyptian man made the claim, "I would never love a girl not from Cairo".

Did you from Cairo? Score two! ( and 'in the beginning', Exactly!)

thesilentflower wrote:

He did not even want to consider one from Upper Egypt, saying that the traditions were too different.

Now the tradition doesn't matter to him anymore.



I'm sorry to tell you this, but that's who we are: men.
We can change ourselves Incredibly because women.

Yes. There are reliable, faithful man in the world, but what's the chance to meet them from Skype?
So to answer your earlier question

thesilentflower wrote:

Is there any chance he is for real?

yes. But low.

Wow, seem all the ladies don't trust this man at all.
still, we cannot define him with little information.

But what about you??  Do you really love this man? What you you seen from him?
Look the question you asked:

thesilentflower wrote:

Should I trust him? My biggest worry is a marriage  of convenience where I get married and then he leaves me and uses me for sex.  Is there any chance he is for real?

thesilentflower wrote:

and what can I do to be sure?

thesilentflower wrote:

What are peoples ideas about his intentions toward me and my family?

thesilentflower wrote:

What do you think his intentions toward me are?

thesilentflower wrote:

I want to sort fact  from fiction,

You sounds like FBI to me. I mean if you really like him, you don't need listen to any of us, just go for it! If you  have too many questions and  doubts about this or him, then you should just drop it, it's not worth. Is this the relationship you really want, with a question 'What do you think his intentions toward me are?'
Trust is the foundation of any kind relationship.
If you don't trust him, where the love come from?

Hi all,
I am a 20 year old american girl who recently studied abroad in Paris for a year and met an egyptian man. I really like this man and I think he genuinely cares for me too but I have my fears (he could be using me to obtain a green card, etc) and he freaked me out by asking me to get engaged to him before I left paris. I am back in the US but we've agreed to do long distance. I would appreciate any advice or opinions. Thank you.

About him:
-23 years old
-he's been living in Paris for 2 years
-I suspect that he's an illegal immigrant in France
-he used to live with his ex-girlfriend (he's had a ton of sex, apparently.)
-he's asked for sex a lot. He seems to be pleased that I'm a virgin but still wants to have sex with me...I really don't understand this. Don't egyptian men want virgin brides?
-he wants me to come back to paris as soon as possible (I'm hoping to visit him next summer)
-within the first few dates he introduced me to his brother and asked me to meet his parents
-before I left for paris he asked me to get engaged to him. I rejected him but we're still doing long distance.
-we were dating for about a month and a half before I left paris. So, all of this happened very quickly.
-he seems to be attracted to me because I look egyptian (according to him) and he seems to hold me to the same standards as an egyptian woman.
-he often asks money questions. "How much is the rent for your Parisian apartment?" Or now that I'm back in the U.S.: "how many kilometers is your home?"
I've told him multiple times that I'm not weathly, which is why it's going to be difficult for me to go back to paris. He says he's middle class and I've told him that I am too.
I don't think he wants to marry me for my non-existent money or my citizenship but I worry. I have trouble believing he would want to marry a foreign woman that he's known for a month out of pure affection.

@Dezu44

You have posted on an old inactive thread.
To be honest I think he is just using you, as you stated, to get a green card.
There are other threads on the subject of marriage here on the forum which I suggest you read through and this will help you make an informed decision.

useful information

thanks

Hi I married a Egyptian man I'm British he has since committed adultery stole my money hit me told nothing but lies for over a year now while I was in the airport in hurgada crying becouse I had to leave him he was in the other women's bed who has a 9 year old boy the child is Muslim so I'm guessing her husband is to in her house having sex half hour after leaving me when we got married I did not understand Arabic he and the lawyer did all the talking but I've since had the paper translated and it says the dowry is £50 this man has had £19000 of me that he was meant to make us a home I still reside in the UK we have not been able to live as husband and wife he says he does not have the money he never paid for anything I have all receipts for the money sent to him is there anything I can do I want a divorce from this man he is not a nice person at all he uses words to offend God it embarrassing me to think I married this terrible person

greetings !

I would like to ask ! I have boyfriend from Egypt we are living here in riyadh he asked me for married , I refused because he told me that his family wants for him to Marry Egyptian girl, but he said that he loves me so much ! he will do only to marry the girl for family purpose! I'm so curious , if he really does to love me , why he need to obey his parents wants ? is it really necessary in egypt to Marry the girl even no love! just for family purpose only ? please I need your suggestion! I really love him so much ! I want him in my life but it's hard for me to accept that he will marry to other girl also...

your suggestion is big help for me !


thank you and God bless everyone !