90 day rule

@davidvernem

hi . youll need a visa if you want to spend more time in Spain . Have a look at the Spanish Cosulate site as that wilgive  you  details of all avai tupes of visa .

I suspected so. Thank you Museo.

Best wishes

David

@davidvernem

Welcome to the expat.com forum and good luck with your visa application!

You are correct, post-Brexit British citizens can visit Spain visa-free, but only for up to 90 days in 180 days.

There are many different visas, but a very popular option is the NLV, No Lucrativa Visa. This is a non-working visa ideal for those with savings and/or passive income (rent, dividends, pension). The amount required is currently about 2,500 euros per month of income OR 30k of savings. Application is at your local Spanish embassy, rather than in Spain.

This is the official government guidance for the NLV:

https://www.inclusion.gob.es/en/web/migraciones/w/autorizacion-inicial-de-residencia-temporal-no-lucrativa

As you've had a home in Spain since 2005, it MIGHT be that you are covered by the Withdrawal Agreement. This had a provision to allow Brits already living in an EU country to get formal residence permit. Most countries had an application deadline which has now long passed. I don't know the exact rules for Spain's implementation, or exactly what proof of your Spanish residence you can lay your hands on. But it's probably worth you doing a bit of investigation.

Here's a link with the relevant info on this option:

https://www.ageinspain.org/post/how-to-obtain-the-tie-guide

The key text is this: "If you are a British national who has been living in Spain since before 2021 you can register your residency in Spain as a beneficiary of the UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement. There is no time limit for making the registration."

Cyprus is another EU country without a deadline, and I got my residence permit there last year. I had an old EU citizen registration certificate from 2005, and the deeds of my property purchased in 2007, and a whole bunch of bills for electricity, water, property tax over the last 20-odd years. It was a bit of a faff, and I had to pay an immigration attorney to deal with it, but I got a 5 year residence permit, and an easy path to permanent residence.

@gwynj

Thank you so much Gwynj, for your feast of information.

The Withdrawal agreement got me rather excited. I met all the requirements,

except I didn't have private health care.

Regarding the NLV application, do you advise contacting the Spanish Consulate or using a lawyer?

Thank you

Best wishes

David

@davidvernem

The NLV is a box-ticking exercise: they have a list of stuff that you need to provide, and if you tick all the boxes, you should get it. Lots of folks do it without an immigration attorney, so I would certainly try to do it myself.

In fact, here's a list... with boxes for you to tick. :-) When they're all ticked, you submit the complete package.

https://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/londres/en/ServiciosConsulares/Documents/Checklist%20NON%20LUCRATIVE%20VISA%20RES.pdf

The Withdrawal Agreement should get you excited, it's by far the better option! There was this Brexit thing, which was pretty big news for a couple of years, I'm actually pretty surprised you didn't hear about it. :-)

I would say that it's worth applying and seeing what happens. Even if you're refused (especially for health insurance) you can appeal.

I think this application is done in Spain, probably through their Cita Previa system for immigration.

You've had a property for nearly 20 years, so you have a Nota Simple and a bunch of bills (and a bunch of mortgage statements).

My thoughts:

• I think the Padron is a big deal. Did you register for your padron back in 2005? And keep it up to date? So you could get a current padron certificate today? (For applications, a certificate is only valid for 3 months.)

• Are you sure you didn't do the EU Citizen Registration way back in 2005? I'd have thought the mortgage company would have expected you to be legally a Spanish resident in order to provide you with a mortgage. I'm also surprised if a mortgage would be given to a random foreigner... were you employed in Spain back then? In which case, you'd have employment contracts too. Also your NIE came with this registration... or did you do a separate application for NIE only somewhere? It's long ago, but this is a key bit of paper/info. Please check, and let me know... this will make a BIG difference!

• The private health insurance requirement is a bit unfair in my opinion. Lots of folks didn't bother for visits to holiday homes... and most of them had their EHIC in case of emergencies. They only last 5 years, so I'd be surprised you have all your old EHICs. :-) But if this was the only issue, I'd certainly be appealing on the basis that (a) it wasn't necessary back then, and (b) I had my EHIC.

• Officially, Brexit happened in early 2020. But there was a "Transition Period" for the whole of 2020. So anything January 2021 and later is of no use to your case. 2005 and thereabouts is many years before and you could have left. So what you want to show is some continuity from 2005 when you first arrived... to 2018/2019/2020.

For my Cyprus application they didn't even mention health insurance, so this is certainly not an EU requirement, or even a formal aspect of the Withdrawal Agreement. Cyprus doesn't even have a Padron equivalent, so ditto for this.

@gwynj

That's great, thank you Gwynj

Best wishes

David

BTW Banks do not require resident status to grant a mortgage. You can be non-resident. The terms differ, but in the end the bank covers all risks with its lien on the property

@davidvernem  hello, as far as i am aware the rules haven’t changed.  the only way at the moment to stay beyond 90 days is to apply for a visa to become a Spanish resident.

We moved here on a Non Lucrative Visa (NLV).  This visa does not allow you to work,  it’s mainly used by retired people with pensions or those people with other passive incomes.  But, you have to become a Spanish Tax Resident after 183 days.  You can only leave Spain for 10 months total in the first 5 years.  You also can’t be out of Spain for more than 6 months at any one time.  Other types of visa are available but best to do your research.  Check on the Spanish Consulate website etc.

Thank you Ractchetsmum,

Best wishes

David

@davidvernem

Hi David,

Many UK citizens who moved to Spain during the Brexit transition period were refused residency under the Withdrawal Agreement because either they didn't have healthcare cover at all, or it wasn't in place during the period they were claiming to have been resident.  This is not new - when my husband and I moved to Spain in 2016, we were required to have private health insurance as part of our residency application (we aren't pensioners yet, so not entitled to the S1).

As for the Certificado de Empadronamiento ("Padrón"), it is illegal for someone who is not a Spanish resident to be registered on the Padrón, so you shouldn't have been registered in 2005 or any other year if you were not living here.  Unfortunately, some Town Halls encouraged non-residents to register, as their funding from the central Government coffers is based on registered headcount.  For those who needed it as part of a residency application, the Town Hall would issue a 3-month temporary certificate and once the applicant's residency was approved, they returned to their Town Hall to update the record with their Residency.

As others have already advised, your only route to residency now is via the Spanish visa system, but please note that this is not simply a way around the 90/180 rule.  To comply with the visa, you cannot leave Spain for more than 6 months in each tax year and you will be required to submit an annual tax return in Spain, based on any income derived from your worldwide assets.

Kind regards,

Kim

@MinuteByMinute

Wow, thank you again Kim, for your wonderful information and the time you spent.

Best wishes

David