Leaving Brazil with only CRNM number but not the actual resident card

@Mischa1864

I am not sure as I don't have experience.  However, I know that in canada and the usa you need the physical card, not just the number for the PR to cross.

I haven't tried this. I stayed in Brazil waiting for my CRNM.

My protocol was issued with only 3 months of validity, which is likely the same for everyone. It's something to bear in mind if you manage to travel using it.

@Mischa1864 You should have received a temporary card (sheet of paper) that is good for 3 months.  You should be able to use that with no problems.

01/11/24 @Mischa1864.  I would recommend going to the Federal Police and reporting that you need to leave Brazil temporarily to deal with an emergency in your country of origin.   They can make sure that your return is problem-free

I traveled out of Brazil in June 2023 using my Protocol and upon by return to Brazil I was admitted into the country as a Visitor even though I gave the immigration officer (PF) my Protocol and passport

@dyantyi28 Agreed. I did the same.

    01/11/24 @Mischa1864.  I would recommend going to the Federal Police and reporting that you need to leave Brazil temporarily to deal with an emergency in your country of origin.   They can make sure that your return is problem-free        -@abthree

I had to do this once. Although my wife and I received our protocolos at the same time, for some reason her RNE card was delayed. We needed to travel out of Brazil, so we went to the Federal Police and they gave her a document confirming her situation, that she could use when returning in place of her RNE - as a pemanent resident.

When I got my VIPER in 2017 there was a page in my passport with a visa glued to it. As noted, the card came much later. I usd this to come and go in the interim.

  01/14/24  When I got my VIPER in 2017 there was a page in my passport with a visa glued to it. As noted, the card came much later. I usd this to come and go in the interim.   

    -@Gasparzinho 777

The VIPER was a truly permanent visa, good for unlimited entries and exits, indefinite stays, and never expiring.  VIPER holders were required to register with the Federal Police within 30 days of their first arrival in Brazil on the visa to request their CIEs (predecessor of the CRNM) -- it's in the fine print on the face of the visa -- but there was no good way to catch those who didn't. 

The VITEM series was redesigned and replaced the VIPER, in part, to tighten that situation up.

I meant do the newer people not get something in their travel document UNTIL the card arrives ?

A lose piece of paper seems a step backwards and one more thing to lose.....that's all.

01/14/24    I meant do the newer people not get something in their travel document UNTIL the card arrives ?
A lose piece of paper seems a step backwards and one more thing to lose.....that's all.
   

    -@Gasparzinho 777

People with a VITEM XI have a visa in their passports that looks almost exactly like the old VIPER used to. 

The assumption is that someone who qualifies for and requests a CRNM is not GOING to leave Brazil before receiving it, barring some type of emergency, to which the PF would probably be amenable.  That's pretty much what "resident" is understood to mean.

@abthree

Exactly right - permanent residency visas are designed for those who intend to spend the vast majority of their lives in Brazil, not for those who will occasionally visit...

@Mischa1864:  You can come into Brasil and stay for 90 days as a visitor.  Take your temporary card or number to the local Federal Police office and get a replacement card.  I would also suggest that you employ a local lawyer to handle this for you.  For a few hundred dollars, your life will be much less stressful

@Peter Itamaraca What document did they give? I thought the protocol was enoug?

@Peter Itamaraca How many days do you have to be in Brazil on a permanent visa? On my retirement visa I only had to be in Brazil one day every 2 years.

@jasonlovesdogs

I am trying to remember back over 16 byears ago, but I think my wife's protocolo might have expired after 90 days? In any event, we went with our attorney to the Policia Federal, and they gave us a document that allowed her to travel and return as a pemanent resident.

If you have a permanent visa, and leave Brazil for longer than 2 years you will lose it. So you are correct - you must visit Brazil at least once every 2 years,

01/22/24 @Mischa1864:  You can come into Brasil and stay for 90 days as a visitor.  Take your temporary card or number to the local Federal Police office and get a replacement card.  I would also suggest that you employ a local lawyer to handle this for you.  For a few hundred dollars, your life will be much less stressful        -@dalezuk

Per his profile, @Mischa1864 is Algerian.  Algeria has its own individual visa regime with Brazil, and easy entry as a visitor cannot be assumed.

Speaking with a local attorney before leaving is a very good idea.

@Mischa1864 Hi all, just been back from the PF and they told me i just need to show the protocol when leaving and entering brazil since the system has already my info that with the protocol they can check out my resident number already.

01/22/24   @Mischa1864 Hi all, just been back from the PF and they told me i just need to show the protocol when leaving and entering brazil since the system has already my info that with the protocol they can check out my resident number already.
   

    -@Mischa1864

Fantastic!  I hope that all goes well for you on your trip.

Still no CRNM mailed. My Protocolo expires in 10 days.Any updates or advise? Should I fly back ASAP?

Sharing this from a different thread.   i copied and pasted it as i think it may be helpful for you to get an updated protocol:

If you want to leave the country and return, you can use migranteweb to get a certificate (updated protocol) for this purpose.

A week before the travel you enter: PORTAL DA IMIGRAÇÃO

MIGRANTEWEB

PETICIONAMENTO ELETRÔNICO

CERTIDÃO DE TRMITE

You'll ask for certidão de trâmite.

The document is valid for 30 days to reenter in Brasil while the process is not finished.

@Gerard Nardini

I overstayed my tourist visa while applying for my permanent residency in Brasil. The day it was finally approved I hopped straight on a plane from the PF office at the airport in RJ with only the protocolo and flew to the US and back to Brazil with no issues entering or leaving. If it expires in six days, I would simply go talk to the PF and inform them of your situation. They will likely just give you another printout and that will be all you need.

Thanks! I decided I will go to Brazil / PF and get another Protocolo before mine expires next week. Lawyer said they shouldn't hassle me as a Protocolo is just a receipt showing you are waiting for your CRNM card to be printed. Plus the PF is aware of the printer machine delaying issuance situation.

What bothers me more is I already need to re-apply in September for the very same retirement visa. (see rant above). Apparently I'm just getting a small sample of the bureaucracy. Lawyer said it would be 250 separate steps to buy an apartment there. No thanks.

04/14/24 @Gerard Nardini.  I think that you've made a wise decision with respect to your Protocolo. 

As far as buying an apartment is concerned, your lawyer is exaggerating.  There ARE enough pitfalls in the process, though, that it's not something to undertake when the potential buyer is working under tight time constraints.  After your paperwork is straight and you have an open schedule, if you find a property that you want with a willing seller and clean paperwork (an absolute must!) you'll probably be pleasantly surprised at how smoothly it can go.  Best of luck to you!

@Gerard Nardini Well, on the bright side since you are within 1 year of submitting the documents for the initial application, you should basically just have to resubmit everything again in September.  My initial residency was for 2 years, and silly me, I  thought I could just resubmit the initial documents.  Nope, I had to go and have everything redone because the documents were older than 1 year.

04/14/24 My initial residency was for 2 years, and silly me, I  thought I could just resubmit the initial documents.  Nope, I had to go and have everything redone because the documents were older than 1 year. -@mikehunter

Same here when I applied for naturalization:  back to the US for a complete set of everything.   And this time, since I was going through the PF rather than the Consulate, apostilles and Sworn Translations for everything, too. It was quite an education!

@mikehunter

Thanks for clueing me in one the 1 year document expiring pitfall.

Only retirement visa benefit I see is that I can stay longer than 90 days in Brazil as lawyer claims 90 day extensions are no longer being rubber stamped. Not sure how he knows that

Anyhow here's a link to check your CRNM card printing status.

https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/sismigra-in … mento.seam

@dyantyi28 They probably extended your visa

Thanks for sharing

@Mischa1864 I think you received great advice from everyone. I am waiting for my CRNM too and won't even look at a photo of an airplane, much less get on one and leave the country until then. I was physically stopped from returning to Brazil during my immigration journey. Definitely Snake Bit!!!

Having said that I believe the Federal Police stamped your Passport when you first were awarded a CRNM. If you absolutely have to return that may help.

Roddie in Retirement

@Canforbra Hey! I am in a similar situation and I would be travelling to US. Will I have any issues with US immigration authorities or brazilian immigration authorities or with the airlines if I don't have the CRNM card but just the protocol number and a letter from federal police stating the vailidity of the protocol number?

 Hey, I am in a similar situation here. I have protocol number and a letter from federal police stating the validity of the protocol number, but not the physical CRNM card. I will be travelling to US soon. Will I have trouble with the immigration authorities there at the port of entry and exit? Does anybody have any similar experience? And will airlines accept this protocol number as well while entering Brazil?

I am travelling soon and extremely anxious about this issue. Any help would be highly appreciated!