Disadvantages of a German passport for a dual British-German citizen

    Hi, I am british citizen living in Germany for many years with a German wife and 2 German born children. Both children are automatically dual British and German citizens from birth but for now have only German passports.  Since 2018 (before the official Brexit) I have dual German and British citizenship. I do not intend on returning to the UK to live or work.

My British passport is due to expire in 2024 and I am wondering whether to bother applying for a renewal or whether I should now get a German passport instead.


Are there any disadvantages to me now applying for a German passport instead of a British one?


Many thanks

mach_weiter_so
   

    -@mach_weiter_so

As you can, get a German passport you can visit more countries with it without the need for a visa. I don't understand why you would think there would be any disadvantages to having one.

Nonsensical question. One needs a German passport if you are a citizen and living or traveling in Germany or anywhere in the EU. Even though one can travel within the EU with just a German national ID card; one cannot go to non-EU countries with it. You are not absolutely required to have a British passport but you will needed it if you ever enter or exit the UK. And the fee for a passport, which is good for 10 years is nominal.

        Hi, I am british citizen living in Germany for many years with a German wife and 2 German born children. Both children are automatically dual British and German citizens from birth but for now have only German passports.  Since 2018 (before the official Brexit) I have dual German and British citizenship. I do not intend on returning to the UK to live or work.My British passport is due to expire in 2024 and I am wondering whether to bother applying for a renewal or whether I should now get a German passport instead.Are there any disadvantages to me now applying for a German passport instead of a British one?Many thanksmach_weiter_so        -@mach_weiter_so

As you can, get a German passport you can visit more countries with it without the need for a visa. I don't understand why you would think there would be any disadvantages to having one.
   

    -@SimCityAT

My kids are dual nationals of Hungary and the UK.  I am very insistent they have and use both passports.  They need to proactively assert their rights when crossing a border.

My brother was an Australian and UK citizen. He used both Australian and UK passports to enter the UK and other countries (at different times).  He did it so no-one could claim he wasn't a real Australian. By passing a border with his chosen passport he was clearly announcing his rights.

Same with my NZ relatives.  They also assert their rights as British and NZ citizens when travelling.

Some of the others have "odd" group of nationalities like UAE, British and Australian.  It's a bit strange for them - they leave  Dubai as UAE nationals, enter the UK as British nationals.  Going back, they are UAE nationals.  I don't know what they do about Australia.   

The legally relevant point here is NOT whether you have a passport or not, but whether you have the citizenship (which won't change if the associated passport is issued or expires).

However, holders of multile citizenships MUST, by international law, enter and exit the countries they are citizens of with a passport from that country. Thus you are not allowed to enter the UK with your German passport (or Germany - and in extension of it the EU - on your UK one), even for a visit.

There is no disadvantage of holding two passports if you have two citizenships (other than maybe the fee).

    The legally relevant point here is NOT whether you have a passport or not, but whether you have the citizenship (which won't change if the associated passport is issued or expires).
However, holders of multile citizenships MUST, by international law, enter and exit the countries they are citizens of with a passport from that country. Thus you are not allowed to enter the UK with your German passport (or Germany - and in extension of it the EU - on your UK one), even for a visit.
There is no disadvantage of holding two passports if you have two citizenships (other than maybe the fee).
   

    -@beppi

Got a reference to this international law?

Some countries don't allow dual nationality. Germany allows it now but Netherlands doesn't. Don't think Austria allows it. Iran doesn't recognise Iranians born in Iran holding other country passports. They consider them Iranians regardless.

They don't normally do any extra checks on dual nationals entering the UK at passports. German nationality is irrelevant to UK border guards.  They might query place of birth but that means nothing much.

I know now, when you apply for a UK passport you have to declare your other nationalities and include colour copies of the entire document.

There might be some visa advantages for some countries with a German or UK passport but they must be marginal. 

I know as a UK citizen, I've lost lower cost visa access to some countries where there was an EU blanket arrangement.  Not a Brexit benefit.

    Nonsensical question. One needs a German passport if you are a citizen and living or traveling in Germany or anywhere in the EU. Even though one can travel within the EU with just a German national ID card; one cannot go to non-EU countries with it.         -@TominStuttgart

Nonsensical answer. Why would one need a German passport to live or travel in Germany or anywhere in the EU?   You didn't even address the OP's question about a UK passport, instead, you just ridiculed another expat asking a legitimate question.

@fluffy2560 and @romaniac:

Without knowing the exact basis in international law, my understanding was that in a country where you are citizen, you are not entitled to another country's consular  protection. But if you enter on that different counry's passport, you are not protected as a citizen either. That presents a legal vacuum, which should be avoided.

I did some reseach and found that this is not handled the same way by all countries (as most issues in international law, unfortunately). See this Wikipedia entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_ … ial_issues

In subsection "Issues with international travel", it says:

In accordance with the European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS), the EU citizens who have multiple nationalities will be obliged to use the passport issued by an EU Member State for entering the Schengen area.

So  in the EU (and many but apparently not all other countries) what I wrote is correct. Better check the details before you travel anywhere! (and if in doubt, use the respective country's passport)!

    @fluffy2560 and @romaniac:
Without knowing the exact basis in international law, my understanding was that in a country where you are citizen, you are not entitled to another country's consular  protection. But if you enter on that different counry's passport, you are not protected as a citizen either. That presents a legal vacuum, which should be avoided.
I did some reseach and found that this is not handled the same way by all countries (as most issues in international law, unfortunately). See this Wikipedia entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_ … ial_issues
In subsection "Issues with international travel", it says:
In accordance with the European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS), the EU citizens who have multiple nationalities will be obliged to use the passport issued by an EU Member State for entering the Schengen area.

So  in the EU (and many but apparently not all other countries) what I wrote is correct. Better check the details before you travel anywhere! (and if in doubt, use the respective country's passport)!
   

    -@beppi

Just to say ETAIS is not yet operational.

As for consular assistance, for my own country, it could actually be making it worse dealing with them.

Indeed, it makes sense to enter Schengen on an EU passport if only to avoid a visa problem.

It used to be and probably still is true that an EU citizen can obtain consular assistance at any EU country embassy if their own country does not have representation.

Even before Brexit I might be misremembering but a UK citizen can ask for assistance at any Commonwealth country embassy if there is no British embassy in that country. 

I find Beppi's posts here to be correct - except that the claim that Netherlands doesn't accept multiple citizenship. In fact they do. Interesting in point that if one with Dutch citizenship and another one lives outside of the Netherlands - that they have to maintain a valid Dutch passport - or lose their Dutch citizenship. Only country I know of offhand with that rule.

Some countries won't allow people to be dual citizens through naturalization - which is not an uncommon slant. Far fewer limit it through birthright. But the Netherlands actually has a very liberal laws allowing a easy option to get citizenship outside of the normal naturalization process - and maintain other citizenships.

One should look at the Wiki article on Dutch nationality law which states "Applicants for Dutch citizenship through the option procedure are not required by Dutch law to renounce any foreign citizenship they might hold." I don't add a link as this is rather off the main topic of this thread.

        Nonsensical question. One needs a German passport if you are a citizen and living or traveling in Germany or anywhere in the EU. Even though one can travel within the EU with just a German national ID card; one cannot go to non-EU countries with it.         -@TominStuttgartNonsensical answer. Why would one need a German passport to live or travel in Germany or anywhere in the EU?   You didn't even address the OP's question about a UK passport, instead, you just ridiculed another expat asking a legitimate question.        -@romaniac

False. That they need a EU country passport for entering or leaving the EU is fact and is half of the equation. A national ID is good for within the EU/Schengen - a passport for external travel. That they need a UK passport for the UK is the other half. The OP is questioning obvious fundamantals of one needing a passport to be entering or leaving a country they are a citizen of. And of course there is no disadvantge to have a passport - although one can question the value of a certain citizenship in some scenarios. 

    I find Beppi's posts here to be correct - except that the claim that Netherlands doesn't accept multiple citizenship. In fact they do. Interesting in point that if one with Dutch citizenship and another one lives outside of the Netherlands - that they have to maintain a valid Dutch passport - or lose their Dutch citizenship. Only country I know of offhand with that rule.   -@TominStuttgart

Currently, the Netherlands has some of the strictest rules on dual nationality in Europe, only allowing it in a few circumstances, for instance, if a person is married to someone with a Dutch passport, or if their country of origin does not allow them to renounce their citizenship.

    I find Beppi's posts here to be correct - except that the claim that Netherlands doesn't accept multiple citizenship. In fact they do. Interesting in point that if one with Dutch citizenship and another one lives outside of the Netherlands - that they have to maintain a valid Dutch passport - or lose their Dutch citizenship. Only country I know of offhand with that rule.
Some countries won't allow people to be dual citizens through naturalization - which is not an uncommon slant. Far fewer limit it through birthright. But the Netherlands actually has a very liberal laws allowing a easy option to get citizenship outside of the normal naturalization process - and maintain other citizenships.

One should look at the Wiki article on Dutch nationality law which states "Applicants for Dutch citizenship through the option procedure are not required by Dutch law to renounce any foreign citizenship they might hold." I don't add a link as this is rather off the main topic of this thread.
   

    -@TominStuttgart

The Dutch don't allow dual citizenship unless the non-Dutch is inherited by birth; for example, my kids are Dutch, but also have a UK passport because I do, and there is nothing they can do about inheriting British nationality.  All 3 have both valid Dutch and UK passports; I've always advised them not to play musical passports, if they leave NL on their Dutch passports, then do not try and show a British one when they get to where they are going.  My grandson has 2 passports (NL/GB); again because his mum has a British one.

The Dutch don't allow dual citizenship unless the non-Dutch is inherited by birth; for example, my kids are Dutch, but also have a UK passport because I do, and there is nothing they can do about inheriting British nationality.  All 3 have both valid Dutch and UK passports; I've always advised them not to play musical passports, if they leave NL on their Dutch passports, then do not try and show a British one when they get to where they are going.  My grandson has 2 passports (NL/GB); again because his mum has a British one.
   

    -@Cynic

I think it depends where they are going.    And I tell my kids the opposite. 

I tell them to leave HU on the HU passports and enter the UK on the UK ones.  There's nothing to stop them doing that - nothing illegal.   When coming back to HU, they should use their HU passports to show they are EU citizens.

BTW, the UK border controls don't care about another nationality.  UK border control does not check the passport numbers against passenger lists for consistencies.  The machines (the humanoid ones and the e-gates) just a check the passport is valid.  Yes or No. That's all.

The subject of Dutch nationality is rather off-topic to the thread but I would challenge the claims posted to refute the Wiki article. Yes, some restrictions on multiple citizenship - but plenty of exceptions. Wiki articles are not always 100% correct but such entries are well checked for having proper citation. Does someone have reliable evidence to the contrary? Not to be contradictory but please site your sources - as I am freely doing.

I can say that the general rule in Germany was that non-EU citizens had to renounce their former citizenship to naturalize. One of the strongest arguments for the incoming reforms and dropping of this requirement was that there were so many exceptions (app. 50%) that it seemed unfair and caused a lot of resentment for those not exempted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law

News article about Germany and dual  citizenship 

https://www.ft.com/content/4b1eafc8-9274-4b49-bb43-f40481790d09

I can say that the general rule in Germany was that non-EU citizens had to renounce their former citizenship to naturalize. One of the strongest arguments for the incoming reforms and dropping of this requirement was that there were so many exceptions (app. 50%) that it seemed unfair and caused a lot of resentment for those not exempted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law-@TominStuttgart

Just another 2 Euro cents.

In Germany, it used to be only the paternal line conveyed citizenship. My understanding is that the female line was disadvantaged and after various cases, descendants of a German mother can claim citizenship but there are very strict criteria and a time limit. I think 2032 is currently the limit.  Also depends when you were born but not where.

I also think in Germany, there are also rules allowing being a dual national if both nationalities are EU - also due to case law. 

One of my ancestors was German and I'm doing the family tree and investigating all this right now.  My other half, Mrs Fluffy, her great grandparents were ethnic Germans.  I don't think it matters to her as a HU citizen but I suppose at a push, she could get German citizenship.  Is it worth the effort? Probably not.

The anti-immigration politicians always say in the UK that citizenship is a privilege, not a right. 

I strongly disagree with that statement.  Rights are very important, especially considering all the volatility we are in now.  Privilege implies it could be taken away - by politicians.  Fundamental BS by them. Inherent as Cynic says.