For foreigners in a relationship with an Egyptian:

Expat-Blog doesn't really provide a place for people to discuss in a personal manner all of the things surrounding relationships between foreigners and Egyptians

Isn't that what we're doing everyday ?

Helping foreigners to integrate in Egypt ?

I like the idea of your website,but I disagree about Expat-blog being away from personal affairs,check it well and you will really discover that..may be it is just a kind of marketing for the website ? ..good luck anyway

may be it is just a kind of marketing for the website ?

+1

Hi, am new to this websites...and reason that i sent this email because i need an advise....and i dont have anyone to ask things....am in love with an egyptian guy and lets just say...i finally found my match out of blue where i didnt expect to meet someone like him!!! Both of us are already divorced with two kids....the point is, we wanted to get marry but cant be because he signed a divorce agreement with his exwife that if one of them marry first...will lose their custody with the kids, he signed that agreement..thinking, he dont bother to marry again...Now, he met me and we fell in love with each other... we want to be together as husband and wife but so impossible that if we marry in ministry of justice..it will be registered in egypt and the exwife lawyer will find out about it and he will lose his kids custody.  I dont want him to lose his children's custody coz i've seen how he loves his kids....so, we sorted out to do the urfi marriage but we wonder if we can get a visa for me to stay in egypt using an urfi marriage?  I mean, urfi marriage can be used to get a visa without registering in egypt government? I also agreed with our set up because i also dont want complications with my canadian immigration application.  Please anyone can give me advise bout this???

audreyrose wrote:

Hi, am new to this websites...and reason that i sent this email because i need an advise....and i dont have anyone to ask things....am in love with an egyptian guy and lets just say...i finally found my match out of blue where i didnt expect to meet someone like him!!! Both of us are already divorced with two kids....the point is, we wanted to get marry but cant be because he signed a divorce agreement with his exwife that if one of them marry first...will lose their custody with the kids, he signed that agreement..thinking, he dont bother to marry again...Now, he met me and we fell in love with each other... we want to be together as husband and wife but so impossible that if we marry in ministry of justice..it will be registered in egypt and the exwife lawyer will find out about it and he will lose his kids custody.  I dont want him to lose his children's custody coz i've seen how he loves his kids....so, we sorted out to do the urfi marriage but we wonder if we can get a visa for me to stay in egypt using an urfi marriage?  I mean, urfi marriage can be used to get a visa without registering in egypt government? I also agreed with our set up because i also dont want complications with my canadian immigration application.  Please anyone can give me advise bout this???

well just to inform you that the lawyer will never know by any way if ur man is married again or no only in one condition that he goes to bribe some one to get his info and details!

meanwhile

concerning ur question about urfi marriage

you must know that he can take this paper to place named mogama el tahrir and he can make only a visa for only 6 months maximum

then later he can go to ministry of justice to make it official then back to this place to make a 5 years visa plus egyptian nationality
and for ur info. u can never marry official in ministry of justice without urfi paper as its first step then the secont will be 6 months visa then official papers.......

First,In case of normal marriage it will not be hard for the lawyer to get to know about the marriage,Lawyers are so active and usually find ways to their targets easily..Don't forget that he was married to a woman and they have two kids,means there still some connection in a way or another..neighbours,mutual friends,whatever..so I guess they will know!

About Visa yes with some procedure i think you can have the egyptian nationality and be an official resident with Urfi marriage,however i don't recommend it (Urfi) because it has so many disadvantages.Simply you can't guarantee anything with Urfi marriage....my advice is to try to find a way to compromise with his exwife about the children in a way or another..in a friendly manner away from lawyers and court stuff

Hey Audrey,

First of all, the orfi contract is not a real marriage.  Not only is it not official with the government, but it's not even a marriage that would give you your rights as a married couple.  It's basically something used by men with foreigners to have the "benefits" of marriage, if you know what I mean, without the responsibilities.  No Egyptian man would ever allow his sister to marry through the orfi contract, so your fiance should also not want this for you. I understand that your situation is different, in that you're trying to protect your fiance and his custody of his children, but you have to be aware of the entire situation.  What exactly are the conditions of his divorce?  Does losing custody of the children mean that they would not be able to stay in the house with their dad, or that he would never be able to see them again? 

If your fiance marries you, legally, yes, the children would have to live with their mother, but for no reason (conditions on a contract or not) would a father ever not be allowed to see his children.  It is not like in other parts of the world, where losing custody may mean that the kids are really taken away from you.  If you and your fiance married legally, then the children might have to live with their mother, but that doesn't mean that he could never see them.  When a contract is passed through the court system, the judge is not supposed to approve anything that goes against the "common morality" and therefore would have never approved such a condition as a man not being allowed to see his kids if he married before the wife and vice versa.  In the event that that does exist in the contract, it would be a wrongdoing from the judge and easily removed by hiring a lawyer.  In no way, shape, or form could the conditions of this divorce play out in such a way as to not allow the man to see his children anymore.  If your fiance is telling you that this is true, then you should probably start asking him a lot of questions to make sure that you guys are communicating properly.

Even if you married with an orfi contract, there would be no way to have your visa permitted for more than a tourist would be allowed.  This means that the maximum that you could receive could be a year (in the event that you told them that you were engaged to be married).  The orfi contract does not provide any legal right to stay in the country, and contrary to what a comment above mine says, the orfi contract IS NOT the first step in the legal marriage process. The orfi is no where related to the legal marriage process, and is not required when getting married.  It is true that someone who marries under an orfi contract can later have it legally converted to a legal marriage, but it is by no means necessary.  I married my Egyptian husband without an orfi, and would never even touch a contract of that sort. 

I know that this is coming out as sounding more like a warning than a piece of information, and I do not mean for it to.  I mean only to tell you straight forward that you either misunderstood what the man was trying to tell you, or that he is lying to you, or that the condition on the divorce contract DOES exist, but could easily be removed by hiring a lawyer. 

Under no circumstances could I ever recommend to anyone that they should marry through the orfi contract, for more reasons than one.

I do hope you the very very best though.  Try to talk to your fiance and figure out what's going on.  I'm not trying to say he's a bad person, he may be telling you like it is 100%, but my husband is a lawyer and guarentees that for no reason would he not be allowed access to his children, so keep that in mind when you guys are making your decisions.

About what some comments above me stated about the Egyptian nationality, again, remember that the orfi contract is not looked at by the Egyptian government as being anything more than an excuse for a man to sleep with a woman and live together.  They would have no reason to grant you Egyptian citizenship, nor would they have to allow you to stay in the country longer than a tourist.

I hope that all of this helps you on your journey.  I'm REALLY sorry if this came out as harsh, because I'm really not trying to be.   I want everything to work out as it should, and to do that, you should be as educated as possible about the systems and inner workings of Egypt.  Have an amazing day Audrey!

InvisibleLegend wrote:

First,In case of normal marriage it will not be hard for the lawyer to get to know about the marriage,Lawyers are so active and usually find ways to their targets easily..Don't forget that he was married to a woman and they have two kids,means there still some connection in a way or another..neighbours,mutual friends,whatever..so I guess they will know!

About Visa yes with some procedure i think you can have the egyptian nationality and be an official resident with Urfi marriage,however i don't recommend it (Urfi) because it has so many disadvantages.Simply you can't guarantee anything with Urfi marriage....my advice is to try to find a way to compromise with his exwife about the children in a way or another..in a friendly manner away from lawyers and court stuff

Actually if she have a copy of urfi contract then she can have some of her rights while divorcing
Believe me bro I know

Could be..like if there will be a children,she can register them with their father's name..but this doesn't mean that everything is ok..still it is just no more than a paper,that can just be simpy torned into pieces as if nothing happened..I don't recommend it in anycase..simply You could be solving a problem with Orfi marriage but at the same time creating another possible future problem for your self

don moe wrote:

Actually if she have a copy of urfi contract then she can have some of her rights while divorcing
Believe me bro I know

Key word here being SOME.  My husband is a lawyer in Egypt, and I agree with InvisibleLegend, orfi is not recommended and will cause more problems than it will solve.

InvisibleLegend wrote:

Could be..like if there will be a children,she can register them with their father's name..but this doesn't mean that everything is ok..still it is just no more than a paper,that can just be simpy torned into pieces as if nothing happened..I don't recommend it in anycase..simply You could be solving a problem with Orfi marriage but at the same time creating another possible future problem for your self

Thumbs up, i agree with you, as I don't like orfi marriage by any means

better to marry a single man its not complicated...dont just follow your heart only..listen to your mind also..

maryam16 wrote:

better to marry a single man its not complicated...dont just follow your heart only..listen to your mind also..

yeah i totally agree with your opinion

audreyrose wrote:

Hi, am new to this websites...and reason that i sent this email because i need an advise....and i dont have anyone to ask things....am in love with an egyptian guy and lets just say...i finally found my match out of blue where i didnt expect to meet someone like him!!! Both of us are already divorced with two kids....the point is, we wanted to get marry but cant be because he signed a divorce agreement with his exwife that if one of them marry first...will lose their custody with the kids, he signed that agreement..thinking, he dont bother to marry again...Now, he met me and we fell in love with each other... we want to be together as husband and wife but so impossible that if we marry in ministry of justice..it will be registered in egypt and the exwife lawyer will find out about it and he will lose his kids custody.  I dont want him to lose his children's custody coz i've seen how he loves his kids....so, we sorted out to do the urfi marriage but we wonder if we can get a visa for me to stay in egypt using an urfi marriage?  I mean, urfi marriage can be used to get a visa without registering in egypt government? I also agreed with our set up because i also dont want complications with my canadian immigration application.  Please anyone can give me advise bout this???

1- Such agreement he signed is null and void since it's against the law, since custody is the right of the CHILD not the right of the PARENT and no parent can waive/sign off a child's right.

For example if a mother who has custody signs away her custody, she can take the kids back after one court session !

2- we do not have joint custody doctrine in Egypt. If he's divorced with his wife, the custody AUTOMATICALLY goes to the MOTHER. The father never gets custody unless the wife and her two successors for custody (will discuss succession later) are unfit for custody (for ethical, medical, or marriage reasons).

If an ex-wife gets married she AUTOMATICALLY loses custody and her successor is her mother, then the ex-husband's mother, then the husband.

3- Urfi marriage for some nationalities - Philippines included - can get you a one-time, non-renewable visa of 6 months (giving you more than enough time to get legally married using this visa since the whole purpose of it is to satisfy the residence visa requirement for legal marriage) so you can only stay six months !, however Urfi marriage is very risky since it does not entitle either of you to inherit the other should he pass away, and children are considered legitimate ONLY by court order (after both of you appear in court to admit that it's authentic, or after the wife challenges the husband in court - which is a very long judicial process - to prove that the marriage is authentic).

4- What problems could you face with Canadian immigration if you get legally married?

clairestrnad wrote:

Hey Audrey,

First of all, the orfi contract is not a real marriage.  Not only is it not official with the government, but it's not even a marriage that would give you your rights as a married couple.  It's basically something used by men with foreigners to have the "benefits" of marriage, if you know what I mean, without the responsibilities.  No Egyptian man would ever allow his sister to marry through the orfi contract, so your fiance should also not want this for you. I understand that your situation is different, in that you're trying to protect your fiance and his custody of his children, but you have to be aware of the entire situation.  What exactly are the conditions of his divorce?  Does losing custody of the children mean that they would not be able to stay in the house with their dad, or that he would never be able to see them again? 

If your fiance marries you, legally, yes, the children would have to live with their mother, but for no reason (conditions on a contract or not) would a father ever not be allowed to see his children.  It is not like in other parts of the world, where losing custody may mean that the kids are really taken away from you.  If you and your fiance married legally, then the children might have to live with their mother, but that doesn't mean that he could never see them.  When a contract is passed through the court system, the judge is not supposed to approve anything that goes against the "common morality" and therefore would have never approved such a condition as a man not being allowed to see his kids if he married before the wife and vice versa.  In the event that that does exist in the contract, it would be a wrongdoing from the judge and easily removed by hiring a lawyer.  In no way, shape, or form could the conditions of this divorce play out in such a way as to not allow the man to see his children anymore.  If your fiance is telling you that this is true, then you should probably start asking him a lot of questions to make sure that you guys are communicating properly.

Even if you married with an orfi contract, there would be no way to have your visa permitted for more than a tourist would be allowed.  This means that the maximum that you could receive could be a year (in the event that you told them that you were engaged to be married).  The orfi contract does not provide any legal right to stay in the country, and contrary to what a comment above mine says, the orfi contract IS NOT the first step in the legal marriage process. The orfi is no where related to the legal marriage process, and is not required when getting married.  It is true that someone who marries under an orfi contract can later have it legally converted to a legal marriage, but it is by no means necessary.  I married my Egyptian husband without an orfi, and would never even touch a contract of that sort. 

I know that this is coming out as sounding more like a warning than a piece of information, and I do not mean for it to.  I mean only to tell you straight forward that you either misunderstood what the man was trying to tell you, or that he is lying to you, or that the condition on the divorce contract DOES exist, but could easily be removed by hiring a lawyer. 

Under no circumstances could I ever recommend to anyone that they should marry through the orfi contract, for more reasons than one.

I do hope you the very very best though.  Try to talk to your fiance and figure out what's going on.  I'm not trying to say he's a bad person, he may be telling you like it is 100%, but my husband is a lawyer and guarentees that for no reason would he not be allowed access to his children, so keep that in mind when you guys are making your decisions.

About what some comments above me stated about the Egyptian nationality, again, remember that the orfi contract is not looked at by the Egyptian government as being anything more than an excuse for a man to sleep with a woman and live together.  They would have no reason to grant you Egyptian citizenship, nor would they have to allow you to stay in the country longer than a tourist.

I hope that all of this helps you on your journey.  I'm REALLY sorry if this came out as harsh, because I'm really not trying to be.   I want everything to work out as it should, and to do that, you should be as educated as possible about the systems and inner workings of Egypt.  Have an amazing day Audrey!

First of all i would like to thank you for the huge useful information you mentioned above, plus i don't wanna to debate about an issue am not an expert in it!

I dont recommend urfi marriage as a step, and i do agree with you about that under no circumstances could I ever recommend to anyone that they should marry through the orfi contract, for more reasons than one.

As for my info about urfi that its a written agreement between two parties (man and woman) to marry without a legitimate, registered with witnesses or without witnesses, does not entail the expense of the legitimacy or pleasure and not for the wife of any rights of the legitimacy of the pair, so the marriage is invalid because the publicity of the pillars of legal marriage in Islam, What is built on falsehood is false.

A term given to false relationship between a man and a woman, which women are married without the consent of the same (or science), her guardian and her family, and is usually confidential and shall bring any two people (as witnesses) and the third writes the contract.

There is a difference in the validity of customary marriages, but who Ihrmonh They take as evidence the words of the Prophet: "Any woman who gets married without the permission of her guardian, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, the income of it may dowry including permissible for the vagina, the If they dispute (Muslim) ruler is the guardian of him."

Added: customary marriage of two types: Type I: customary marriage is true which was done in previous marriages or contracts Ankhh on paper customary or normal and this is done with the consent of the husband and wife and her guardian, and the presence of witnesses in addition to his declaration among the people was that marriage is since the beginning of Islam is still prevalent in many Alqthery across the country of Sudan in its various contracts that are in the mosques and this marriage is true to the availability of all the staff.. As to the couples on the marriage contract officially the availability of staff, be deemed to Zwagea officially and not customary, either if the contract authorized Marriages on a couple in the presence of witnesses without the presence of This is considered the guardian of marriage and that without a document Sms marriage void for failure to obtain permission guardian.

Type II: customary marriage is null and this is done on plain paper or white may be without a paper and this is between a man and a woman in the presence of witnesses, but he lacks the requirement of the guardian and the announcement to conceal from the people and the scholars are unanimously agreed on the void for two reasons: the first words of the Quran in verse 25 of Sura women ( Wed them with the permission of their parents ... etc.) The second interview Ms. Aisha (Any woman who gets married without the permission of her guardian, her marriage is invalid the marriage is invalid, etc. ..) and was said to be married, which itself is immoral. The scholars differed as to punish some of them and said limit of them said that the discretionary limit Edre DOUBT, a suspicion that the marriage of King


Meanwhile can you just tell me as long as your husband is a lawyer which is good to know some free useful information   , how will a couple marry official if she dont have a Visa?!

As for my information that the government will ask the couple for some documents including a Visa for her but in a special case if  she doesnt hold a visa or if its expired, then the answer will be (from the government) that the couple should make an urfi contract as a first step in order to extract a 6 month tourist visa for her the ( which means that it is official for the government!) as this is the only option to obtain a visa for her!


As for my case i do have some comments as i was married before and we are divorced now and already i have a baby boy (God bless him for me), so talking about my condition i can say that in our divorce contract there is a condition that if she got married one day i will have the kids custody, plus my lawyer told me that if she want to make it hard for me she can just make an order from the judge that i can see my boy only like one hour weekly in a place infront of her ! but thank god that she was flexible and if i want to see him any day i can as we dont have any kind of Legal issues between us.

So at last i hope clairestrnad that you can understand my small point of view and that for only ONE reason a couple can marry urfi!

don moe wrote:

well just to inform you that the lawyer will never know by any way if ur man is married again or no only in one condition that he goes to bribe some one to get his info and details!

Dude get real .... 20 pounds in any Civil Status office and he will get all the information he needs. Lawyers are sneaky and can get what they want

don moe wrote:

meanwhile

concerning ur question about urfi marriage

you must know that he can take this paper to place named mogama el tahrir and he can make only a visa for only 6 months maximum

If I may add, it's a one-time six month non-renewable visa.

don moe wrote:

u can never marry official in ministry of justice without urfi paper as its first step then the secont will be 6 months visa then official papers.......

Again, If I may add, this applies to a limited set of nationalities (India, Pakistan, Philippines, Israel, Ex-Soviet Union nations ...etc.) ...... For most nationalities this is NOT required.

InvisibleLegend wrote:

First,In case of normal marriage it will not be hard for the lawyer to get to know about the marriage,Lawyers are so active and usually find ways to their targets easily..Don't forget that he was married to a woman and they have two kids,means there still some connection in a way or another..neighbours,mutual friends,whatever..so I guess they will know!

True ! Never underestimate the power of word of mouth !

InvisibleLegend wrote:

About Visa yes with some procedure i think you can have the egyptian nationality and be an official resident with Urfi marriage,however i don't recommend it (Urfi) because it has so many disadvantages.Simply you can't guarantee anything with Urfi marriage....my advice is to try to find a way to compromise with his exwife about the children in a way or another..in a friendly manner away from lawyers and court stuff

I would have to correct you on this. You can get only a one-time 6 month visa with Urfi contract, and you can NEVER apply for Egyptian citizenship with a Urfi contract.

and I agree about him trying to negotiate with his ex-wife.

The Egyptian wrote:

don moe wrote:

well just to inform you that the lawyer will never know by any way if ur man is married again or no only in one condition that he goes to bribe some one to get his info and details!

Dude get real .... 20 pounds in any Civil Status office and he will get all the information he needs. Lawyers are sneaky and can get what they want

don moe wrote:

meanwhile

concerning ur question about urfi marriage

you must know that he can take this paper to place named mogama el tahrir and he can make only a visa for only 6 months maximum

If I may add, it's a one-time six month non-renewable visa.

don moe wrote:

u can never marry official in ministry of justice without urfi paper as its first step then the secont will be 6 months visa then official papers.......

Again, If I may add, this applies to a limited set of nationalities (India, Pakistan, Philippines, Israel, Ex-Soviet Union nations ...etc.) ...... For most nationalities this is NOT required.

Actually i mentioned that with a bribe he can get the info he needs as we all know that lawyers are so sneaky and 20 pounds is enough for them

clairestrnad wrote:

It's basically something used by men with foreigners to have the "benefits" of marriage, if you know what I mean, without the responsibilities.

Dear Claire,

Allow me to add a little piece of information to this.

Your words are true in 90% of the cases.

But, let me tell you one thing.

I have madly fallen in love with a Ukrainian lady and we are now legally married.

When I went to Ministry of Justice (foreigner marriage registrar office) to check about requirements for marriage before she arrives in Egypt, I was shocked to find out that for many nationalities (all ex-USSR and Philippines included), she has to have a non-touristic residence visa in order to get legally married.

This has put me in a dilemma, because it would be too much money to apply for college for her to get a student visa, work visa is out of the question since I don't own a business or I don't know anyone who does and would do me such a favor, and waiting until she finds a job seemed like eternity, so I asked the staff at the Ministry and they told me I have to get Urfi marriage first. I refused at first but later on they told me you HAVE to.

I married her Urfi, she applied to her embassy for a certificate of non-impediment, which we later notarized from the Ministry of Foreign affairs, then we applied for a six month residence using these documents, we were screened by the Immigration investigative police to make sure it is not a marriage of convenience, then she was background-checked by the national security, and finally we had the visa.

On the same day she received her visa we headed directly to the ministry of justice and got LEGALLY married on the same day and received our legal marriage documents one week later. The whole process took a little less than one month from the day she arrived till the day we were legally married.


So anyways, for some cases Urfi first is a MUST. and it was a lawyer contract, signed and stamped by the lawyer, signed by two real witnesses, signed and finger-printed by me and her.

Maybe later on when I have time I will scan it, remove our personal information and upload it for you to see it. It is not like a hand-written contract to have "benefits".

clairestrnad wrote:

No Egyptian man would ever allow his sister to marry through the orfi contract, so your fiance should also not want this for you.

COMPLETELY AGREE. But again, read my comment above ....

clairestrnad wrote:

I understand that your situation is different, in that you're trying to protect your fiance and his custody of his children, but you have to be aware of the entire situation.  What exactly are the conditions of his divorce?  Does losing custody of the children mean that they would not be able to stay in the house with their dad, or that he would never be able to see them again?

Again read my first post up there. There is no joint custody in Egypt and the woman automatically gets custody, and even if the father signs off his visitation rights, such an agreement would be null and void since it's against the law as it deprives the children of their right to see their father and such an agreement is not worth the paper it is signed on !

clairestrnad wrote:

Even if you married with an orfi contract, there would be no way to have your visa permitted for more than a tourist would be allowed.  This means that the maximum that you could receive could be a year (in the event that you told them that you were engaged to be married).  The orfi contract does not provide any legal right to stay in the country, and contrary to what a comment above mine says, the orfi contract IS NOT the first step in the legal marriage process. The orfi is no where related to the legal marriage process, and is not required when getting married.  It is true that someone who marries under an orfi contract can later have it legally converted to a legal marriage, but it is by no means necessary.  I married my Egyptian husband without an orfi, and would never even touch a contract of that sort.

Again a few corrections here.

1- Urfi can be used to obtain a temp, one-time, non-renewable, non-touristic residence visa valid for 6 months.

2- Urfi IS first step to legal marriage for some nationalities (Pakistan, India, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Ex-USSR, Israel). I was shocked to find out about this discrimination since when I went to the ministry before my wife arrived in Egypt, since I went there just for reassurance about the process as I was there when a friend of mine married a lady from Puerto Rico (American citizen) 7 years ago and they did not need to jump through these hoops to get married. In our case we had two routes to go through, Urfi + Embassy Approval --> 6 month visa --> Legal marriage --> 5 year visa and citizenship application (optional), OR Urfi + Embassy approval (optional in the 2nd route) --> Go to court to have it legalized --> Legal marriage decree by court --> 5 year visa and citizenship application (optional). Route #1 takes around 1 month, route #2 takes around 6 months since courts are overbooked, so we chose route #1 to avoid overstaying the visa illegally.

clairestrnad wrote:

About what some comments above me stated about the Egyptian nationality, again, remember that the orfi contract is not looked at by the Egyptian government as being anything more than an excuse for a man to sleep with a woman and live together.  They would have no reason to grant you Egyptian citizenship

True about the citizenship.

Thank You The Egyptian For the wonderful info. ,"Ask an experienced instead of a doctor " .Very true i think .and As you say it is really shocking that I have to start with Urfi marriage to marry someone from those nationalities..Didn't you ask them why exactly from those countries?or is it just one out of dozens of those rules here and there that no body could understand why and what for?!

InvisibleLegend wrote:

Thank You The Egyptian For the wonderful info. ,"Ask an experienced instead of a doctor " .Very true i think .and As you say it is really shocking that I have to start with Urfi marriage to marry someone from those nationalities..Didn't you ask them why exactly from those countries?or is it just one out of dozens of those rules here and there that no body could understand why and what for?!

I believe it's a form of limitation to limit marriages to those nationalities and I believe this is discrimination in its worst forms.

audreyrose wrote:

I also agreed with our set up because i also dont want complications with my canadian immigration application.  Please anyone can give me advise bout this???

hi audreyrose,
i certainly hope you find peace with whatever decision you make.

i would be very careful regarding what you do and not declare on your cdn immigration application.

i say this because if you do not disclose the "customary" marriage (which is not recognized as legally valid in canada), and should you later disclose it or they find out, the immigration review board may possibly perceive your initial application as void and invalid due to your omission. so please do think this through.

it sounds as though you've already commenced your aplication and from what i understand from other new cdns, it is an arduous and daunting process and is becoming all the more scrutinized.

you may be better off declaring your husband as your "common law spouse" or "conjugal partner" on your current application as the immigration guidelines state: "If you are a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, you can sponsor your spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner...to become a permanent resident." this refers to the family sponsoring process and carries financial obligations on your part if you sponsor him.

i would caution you to be very careful so that you are not perceived as "deceitful" in your application.

hope you are soon happily married!

k

Can I please ask your advice. I have fallen in love with an Egyptian man whilst on holiday in Sharm. I've returned to the uk. He has asked me to come to visit him in Cairo to stay with him and his family. His brother has been added on my Facebook by him so his family have seen me. Should I go? Will I be safe?

sure you will be safe with him . why are you worry ?

Chezza2uk,

Regarding your question about safety in coming here in Egypt. Generally, I don't think it's a problem. If you are coming to visit his family only for a short period of time. Well, try to observe them if you feel like you're comfortable w/ them, then it's fine.

But, mind you, these people are very attached to their culture. That means, that there are certain things that western people think it's okay but in their world,  it's not.

And talking about falling in love,  whew! It's quite heavy for me. Because, falling in love is somehow a very complex feeling. There are many things to consider in falling in love with a person and taking it seriously on your part.

There's one thing I can advice to you is, take things easy and try to communicate with some of your friends or people who were here in Cairo before you, so at least you  have some idea on how things  are going on here. Try to talk & ask some questions from people and gather their ideas/ opinions, then reconsider all your options of coming here in Cairo to visit his family as well as falling inlove with him that eventually maybe it will lead into marriage.

So be very careful in your decision making! Don't be so impulsive and at the end of the day always ask God for guidance so you will be enlightened.

Good luck!!!

Hi Chezza,

Nice to hear the good news, and about your worries, please i urge you to do some simple tests (pretty please for your own sake) 1st are you kinda rich? age difference ? those blunt words are maybe a sad fact for most marriages of Egyptian fakers.

having you invited is a good sign.
but let me say "and focus on this point please" take the chance and go the ticket is nothing .. but DO NOT get money and pretend that  you almost have no savings.. please do so
when you visit him take a simple gift maybe but nothing else go there with you ATM card and anything he does or any place he takes you to LET HIM PAY 100% this is common her in Egypt even poor Egyptian couples , the male usually will pay everything.
And if that passed ok, as Emzkie said just keep taking everything with a sharp eye.... it won`t take you some days or weeks to save yourself much deceit  and most importantly broken heart and a very bad picture of Egypt.

What does he work? what education does he have etc.
I hope you the best of luck in your relation and rememeber no one will save you of any sorrows but yourself and your care..... other than that if he is a Good guy at the end, its good for both of you for a lifetime together maybe !

Cheers

Thank you for your post. I'm normally really sensible but I've been swept up on a tsunami of fairy tale fun. I think I will come to Cairo and meet his family and see how the week goes. Im a black belt in karate so I have a little bit of assertiveness but that doesn't give you total protection. The information on here has been invaluable.
Spiritstallion..... He's working as an accountant in the hotel where I met him.... We are messaging every day and occasionally chat. He's asked me to change my Facebook profile photo as he's added his brother who he says has shown his mum my picture?
Thanks again for you advice.

Well, good luck then

Family introduction and the invite+ change of photo request  i guess are  positive and nice things. and typical here in Egypt.
but if you feel relaxed towards him after all, why don`t you sit and speak directly about such cultural differences etc. ? where are you going to live? he is seeking a visa? My best friend is married to an american girl, and he ended in the states but i would say on the personal side he loves her much and they have a very good marriage and U.S citizenship was`t his "goal" when he married her.

And The Karate Black belt "changes everything " i`m joking sure as i never think whatever problems or differences might need such "skills"
you will just see if his feelings are true or not.

Good luck again!

Thank you for your reply. I can't help but feel sceptical at the moment. He is talkin of Marraige but it would take him years to be able to come here. I have children and I can't take them away from my ex to live in egypt... So to be together he would have to come here eventually. I can visit him married or not in egypt until then. I think I may go to Cairo in August and see. I really value the unbiased opinions of others here. Thank you

Don't go!

Chezza2uk,

Well, Goodluck!!!

Keep us updated for whatever development you have.

Chezza - really I am of a different opinion - asking you to change your photo is not positive - what was wrong with the one you had.
the answer to that question may open up some areas of thought for you.
personally - stay away - if you have no intention of moving here to live then what's the point really. You will spend more money which should go to your children and your life in the uk.

Don't believe everything he says - and never give him money for anything at all - whether he told you his mother/father/uncle/brother/sister etc. Are dying.

however iam new here but i can say that Expat.com as online platform helps people to integrate in a positive environment .

Why would you say don't go? I won't take much money and I trust him not to hurt me. He is an accountant so I guess earns a certain wage. It's just the way he looks at me..

1) you dont know him at all - you only just met him and under nit normal circumstances - ie. On holiday.
2) yes he may be an accountant - but please dint think accountant uk - here the wages are of an egyotian level! Which may not be more than 3000 (LE £300 per month).
You really cant equate the 2.
3) your facebook photo was so bad? You were naked - or it was just a 'normal' photo to all of us? If he asked you to change it then thus shows control already and that really isn't good.

As for the look he gives you - it is a look perfected by many many egyptian men - read the stories of which there are 1000's.

you will come and visit?
you understand Arabic? So you will know what they are saying?
he is 18/20? If he is older the chances are that he is already married / engaged.
you already have kids - not normal for a single egyptian to hook himself up with someone who isn't a virgin - oh yes there are 2 - money and visa!!
also you have no intention of moving here - so......

if you have to come don't come by yourself - bring - not a friend - but an aunt/older sister - or even better older brother - don't put yourself in the position of being by yourself - not sensible!

I told you not to go because I have lived in Egypt for nearly ten years and have heard this same scenario a hundred times. Most likely he is after money and visa. You have children. Do you really think that gallivanting off to Egypt on a whim is what is best for them? I think you need to evaluate your priorities.

Missy K - I couldnt agree more!
I have personally known a few - most who have got married - managed to get the guy a visa taken him home to the U K and have been systematically betrayed and defrauded out of everything they have - and we are talking grown up normally intelligent ladies.

My kids are everything to me and they will be with their dad for a week anyway. I'm not going to rush Into anything but I'd love to live like a member of someone's family and experience the real egypt.

Trust me - you dont want to experience the 'real Egypt' - it would if you have any sense have you running for the hills.
It is patriarchal (women are lesser beings) dirty crowded and poverty stricken.
you have been on holiday to somewhere nice - the public places of Cairo resemble this in no way shape or form.
And how can you go and  live like a member of someone's family - when you are not married to him - truthfully you shouldn't stay in the same house as him.
even after having a very public engagement the engaged couple here in Egypt would be limited as to what they can do - and they certainly absolutely wouldn't stay in  the same place
and if you do - then I would really think twice about what it is he wants from you.