What is the motorcycle culture in the DR ?

I have seen a number of them around. Not sure there is a group.

You understand that we have the highest mortality rates  from road accidents right? The largest % are motorcycle riders!  Most are not big bikes but there is zero respect for bikes on the road and zero respect by the riders!   Just a warning.

@bigboiron, I don't ride HD myself, but I've seen riding groups and hangouts in several places in DR so far, so I know there's a community of HD riders here. I saw this https://dominicanriders.com/ but I'm not sure if they're still open. What I'd throw out there is this—search Google Maps for "motorcycle", "biker bar" or similar phrases in your area and try to reach out from there. I've seen some great photos of HDs all lined up outside pit stops in the Jarabacoa region, but I can't find it again. That area might be a kind of mecca for HD riders because of the scenery. Also, might be worth asking at a dealership, like https://www.instagram.com/VenturaCycles. Hope you find your people!

Re: motorcycle mortality, that's true anywhere in the world, and it's the #1 stat non-riders love to throw out there as soon as they find out you ride! 😂 What I did (I'm a new rider) is took classes at Thrumoto in the capital. They train a lot in skills that are really useful here, like low-speed, tight space maneuvers, emergency stopping, obstacle avoidance, starts/stops on inclines, etc. and teach you drills for all these scenarios. I'd throw out (fully aware that HD riders really love their bikes!) that HDs might not be the most practical bike in this country. I opted for a Royal Enfield Himalayan 411 Scram adventure-style bike, which is way better suited to riding in traffic and on dirt/mud roads. But if you go in a group, which it sounds like that's your intention, then you'll improve your chances of having a great ride exponentially.

Anyway, welcome & I hope you find a way to enjoy your passion here!

I'd also toss out there for what it's worth that although I've seen a couple of bad accidents, for the most part, I've found driving/riding in DR to be altogether not that bad. I think if you've driven in NYC or Boston, you can absolutely handle driving here, no problem. I've ridden all over Las Terrenas and driven in Punta Cana and Santo Domingo, even at night and in an all-night torrential downpour between Punta Cana and SD, and had no issues whatsoever. Once you calibrate to the level of aggressive driving people employ, it's a breeze. Also, avoiding larger metros whenever you can helps a lot, and just being a careful, patient driver/rider. To me, the biggest danger isn't other drivers at all, but road hazards and weather conditions. For example, I've had 0 accidents or close calls in ~4 months of driving/riding, but in about 1 month with a car in Punta Cana, I already had 2 flat tires! 🤣 (Your mileage may vary, though!) So, just another data point for your collection.

As a non rider who has been here 21 years I am not throwing out stats - it's damn well real!!!  Do a bit of research.  I am personally offended by your comment.

Bikers here don't access those "courses" nor do other vehicle drivers.

Trying googling roadway mortality rates in the DR. Try googling roadway injuries in the DR then come back here and say this!

To anyone who is interested in stats, the World Health Organization's traffic mortality data are here

You can either look at the data directly or at graphs -- just choose either the "data" or "visualizations" tab.

For COMPARING WORLDWIDE road traffic mortality per 100,000 people, it shows 27.4 for the DR vs. 4.7 for Canada, 12.0 for Mexico, and 14.2 (!) for the United States. Go Canada.

For PERCENT OF TRAFFIC DEATHS IN THE DR BY TYPE OF VEHICLE, it shows 67% for motorcycles. That people earn a living driving those motoconchos blows my mind; they should be on one of those World's Deadliest Professions shows.

Here's a map --- built off the same data, I think, but produced by a different website --- in which the DR stands out almost literally like a sore thumb: https://worldpopulationreview.com/count … y-country.  (shoot, this one isn't working, I will try to fix it) https://worldpopulationreview.com/count … by-country

DR is not just "anywhere in the world."

I was going to bring up the WHO stats, but people really don't care. They are going to do what they do. I have a 4Runner (4500 lb truck) and I try to drive as little as possible here. I can't imagine voluntarily running around this country on two wheels. At least give yourself a fighting chance by wearing a helmet!

Something went wrong with the traffic deaths URLs and I wasn't able to fix it so here they are again:

(You can switch between "data" for numbers and "visualizations" for graphs. I think the "data" tabs are easier to look at.)

how the DR compares worldwide on traffic deaths:

https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indic … eath-rate-(per-100-000-population)

% of motorcycle fatalities in overall DR traffic deaths:

https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indic … road-user-(-)

map showing worst countries for traffic deaths:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count … by-country

From  the article in Dominican Today:

Motorcycles and traffic accidents in the DR

In the first stage of the Christmas preventive operation “Conscience for Life 2024-2025”, the Emergency Operations Center (COE) reported 104 traffic accidents, of which 12 people were killed.

Of these accidents, 131 people were affected, with motorcycles leading the incidents with 83, 13 in light vehicles, five hit-and-runs, and the rest in a bus, a van, and a yippee.

In December 2023, Joel Santos, who was Minister of the Presidency, reported that 69% of the people who have died in the last two years due to traffic accidents were riding motorcycles.

He also stated that in more than 90% of the cases analyzed, these drivers did not wear safety helmets, thus increasing the probability of lethality.

@planner

Oh, I was not referring to your comments at all, and that seems pretty clear from my comments, so I'm not sure why you'd be offended! I was saying that non-riders always tell riders (esp new ones) how dangerous riding bikes is, that's all. It's a weird phenomenon (and pretty damned insensitive!), but people love to tell me all about how I'm probably going to die or get maimed as soon as they learn I'm riding. 😅

I'm mentioning "motorcycle mortality" specifically, not traffic accident mortality in the DR broadly, which is what you're referencing to support your secondary claim about motorcycles. Two completely different things, though related. I wanted to share some thoughts on motorcycle mortality because as an experienced rider, it's no doubt on @bigboiron's mind already. Re: "not throwing out stats - it's damn well real", I'm not quite sure what this means, since stats and probability describe reality, and nothing I wrote implies that stats are somehow not reflective of reality.

I've read the stats in great depth already many times, and I'm also a trained statistician myself, I work in data science and analysis for over 20 years, so this is table stakes to me when it comes to any decision! My point is that these stats only give us a risk assessment. It's up to individuals to mitigate those risks. The chance of something happening doesn't guarantee that it'll happen to any given individual, only that it's a possibility, and what the characteristics of that possibility are in a given population.

To your point, there's a high correlation between not wearing protective gear and accident fatality, for example. This is exactly what I was trying to highlight. Mitigations like wearing protective gear and getting training and practicing those skills regularly, riding in a group, etc., all help mitigate these risks, and that's true everywhere in the world, not just here. It goes a lot deeper, too. E.g., most serious motorcycle accidents happen at intersections, etc. I think most US-trained bikers or bikers who have gotten training from MSF-affiliated or inspired groups have these stats memorized. The important thing to me is that these are all mitigations that trained riders learn to apply no matter where they are in the world, and they're also effective at mitigating risk here in the DR. That's my point.

To me, the best way to mitigate the risks of driving here is to focus on what we can control, which is being good drivers ourselves and avoiding places and circumstances where risk is increased to the best of our ability. I wear full protective gear, not just the helmet!

It's also worth understanding why these studies use per-population metrics (% per 100k of the population):

1. They account for exposure risk across the entire population, not just vehicle owners
2. They enable standardized comparisons between regions with different vehicle ownership rates
3. Population data tends to be more reliable than vehicle counts, especially in areas with many unregistered vehicles
4. They better reflect overall public health impact and burden on healthcare systems
5. They make it easier to do cross-country comparisons

The population of the Dominican Republic is about 11.4 million people. Per-population metrics in these reports sample over 100k. So, these reports that show % of traffic deaths by type of vehicle are not % of vehicles, but a % of the population (of 100k people). That's super important to know because it means something totally different that what it might seem to at first blush.

But to understand what's going on based on vehicles, we might try to use vehicle-based rates, which are useful but can underestimate risk in areas with low vehicle ownership or mask problems in places with many unregistered vehicles. So, we have to account for these issues. Here's a very rough, back of the napkin rundown.

There are an estimated 9.3 million vehicles of all types on the road (registered and unregistered) based on 2018 data, and about 4.3 million motorcycles (both registered and unregistered) (DGII, January 2022). So, about 46% of all vehicles on the road are motorcycles. Between 2017 and 2021 there were 513,629 traffic accidents and 14,692 fatalities. Estimates vary from 71% to 68% or thereabouts, but let's say 70% of accidents involved motorcycles.

Motorcycle accidents: 513,629 × 0.70 = 359,540 accidents

Motorcycle fatalities: 14,692 × 0.70 = 10,284 fatalities

10,284 fatalities / 359,540 accidents = 2.86% fatality rate over the period for motorcycles

This gives us:

Annual motorcycle accident rate: 359,540 / 5 years / 4.3M = 1.67% per motorcycle per year

Annual motorcycle fatality rate: 10,284 / 5 years / 4.3M = 0.048% per motorcycle per year

These numbers are more consistent with the below study's data and typical traffic safety statistics.

This means that over the 5-year period (2017-2021), approximately 8.36% of motorcycles were involved in reported accidents, or roughly 1.67% per year on average:

359,540 motorcycle accidents / 4.3 million motorcycles = 0.0836 or 8.36%

Over the 5-year period, meaning about 1.67% per year average.

However, it's important to note this is a simplified view since:

1. Individual motorcycles could be involved in multiple accidents

2. The vehicle count is from 2018 and the motorcycle count is from 2022 while accidents span 2017-2021

3. Some accidents may involve multiple motorcycles

10,284 fatalities / 359,540 motorcycle accidents = 2.86% fatality rate per accident

10,284 fatalities / 4.3 million motorcycles = 0.24% of motorcycles involved in fatal accidents over 5 years, or about 0.048% per year

Still super high compared to other countries, but hopefully this shows a quick back of the napkin estimate of how many accidents actually involve motorcycles as a proportion of all vehicles on the road, rather than of the population.

My quick & dirty assessment aligns with this study https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/P … 82601.pdf, where it's interesting (to me) that a big contributing factor is lack of risk perception among the population. Here's a summary:

Key findings from the study:

1. Perception vs Reality:

- Citizens underestimate traffic fatalities (78.1% believed deaths were under 2,000, when actual figures were higher)

- Only 2.5% ranked traffic crashes as most important public issue

- Women showed higher concern about traffic safety than men

2. Accident Characteristics:

- 88.3% of crashes involved young people (15-25 years)

- 71.4% of fatalities were motorcycle riders

- Higher crash rates during weekends (39.7%) and daytime (64.8%)

3. Risk Factors:

- Leisure trips most dangerous (25.8%)

- Professional truck drivers perceived as most responsible (42.9%)

- Significant factors: driving violations, lack of law enforcement, poor vehicle condition

4. Demographic Differences:

- Women rated safety concerns higher than men

- Younger age groups (18-34) showed more concern than older groups

- Education level positively correlated with traffic safety awareness

5. Policy Implications:

- Need for stronger road safety awareness

- Importance of law enforcement

- Need for regular safety assessments in emerging countries

Lack of protective gear as well as drinking & riding are big factors not directly captured in this study, though they may roll up under some of the existing points here. Two interesting things are (a) young riders and (b) leisure trips, which I think both relate to the protective gear and drinking, personally. Note that the study primarily references per-population metrics, specifically citing mortality rates of 34 per 100,000 inhabitants in low/medium-income regions versus 8 per 100,000 in high-income countries. For the Dominican Republic specifically, it notes a mortality rate of 29.3 deaths per 100,000 population.

While the study mentions vehicle data (e.g., 60% vehicle ownership rate, mostly motorcycles), it doesn't use per-vehicle metrics for its main analysis, aligning with WHO standards that prefer population-based measures for making cross-country comparisons. So, that supports WHO's needs and goals, but doesn't tell us much about the real numbers of vehicle types if what we're concerned with is driving here in this country, so this differs from my quick & dirty analysis which used per-vehicle calculations based on estimates of vehicle counts to assess risk. I used inflated estimates to be more conservative and still arrive at lower numbers of motorcycles involved in accidents than we might suppose by looking at the 69% (per population, not per vehicle count) figure. Still, my calculations align quite closely with those in the study.

To be clear, this in NO WAY is aimed to refute or undermine anything that's available from MSF or WHO, etc., which are what riders and drivers should rely on. I'm only trying here to show that we need to unpack and understand what the stat is actually saying and how it's derived to make a risk assessment at an individual level. Further, knowing these stats and the contributing factors is crucial to risk mitigation.

Summary

The reasoning and calculations for individual risk are mathematically sound and align with the study's data. The study confirms:

1. The proportion of motorcycle involvement (my 70% aligns with their 68-71.4% range)
2. The temporal distribution (2017-2021 period)
3. The vehicle fleet composition (motorcycles being a major component)

The caveats I pointed out are particularly important and supported by the study's findings about:

1. Young riders (15-25) being overrepresented
2. Higher weekend accident rates
3. Geographic distribution (urban vs rural)

One methodological note: The study advocates for using per-100,000 population metrics rather than per-vehicle metrics for international comparisons. However, the per-vehicle analysis is valid for understanding individual risk exposure within the Dominican Republic context.

All the conclusions are appropriately cautious given the data limitations noted in my caveats. Hopefully, this shows how it's possible that both the international comparison data based on % of population as well as my own estimate of individual risk based on vehicle counts can be true and mathematically defensible at the same time. I.e., the WHO figures are true, and my own personal risk exposure is ~1.67% of having an accident and 0.048% chance of a fatal accident per year assuming population averages for simplicity. These risks can be mitigated, reducing exposure even further:

1. Age (15-25 highest risk)
2. Time of travel (weekends/holidays riskier)
3. Trip purpose (leisure trips riskier)
4. Location (highways vs urban)
5. Experience/behavior (gear, training, group rides, etc.)

Good grief.  Motorcycles here account for around 65% of accidents and 64% of all road deaths.  You can argue all you want. The facts are the facts.

@planner

Exactly, I estimate even more conservatively at 70% of all accidents and deaths, which I state above. Also, that's % of accidents per 100k of population, not per number of vehicles by vehicle type, which I explain. I'm also emphatically not arguing! Please read!

It's a totally different question, "What are the accident characteristics per 100k of a population, country by country?" vs. "What's my personal risk exposure in the DR as a motorcycle rider?" The stats you cite address the former, not the latter, and my notes explain exactly how both can be true at once. This is just first-year stats and probability. My notes provides a complementary rather than contradictory perspective to WHO population-based metrics, so definitely not arguing with any of your claims.

I'm not sure why everything I've shared so far has been cast in a negative light, but I'm only trying to share a constructive, helpful point of view here.

I saw two motorcycle accidents in 10 days in October (neither fatal thank God)... and approximately 2.3 skabillion near misses. Traffic safety was one of the things I thought hardest about when deciding whether to take the plunge and make this move ... especially when combined with health insurance limitations. This was the most transportation-oriented trip of my life 🤣. For a vacation it seemed like good hair-raising fun but did I really want that for a life routine? For me I decided yes. But I do take it seriously. Including do more exercise so I can get up and down from those pickup trucks without having to be assisted like an ambulatory sack of potatoes!

@wondering9

It's definitely really scary! I'm glad you're safe and enjoying it so far. 🫶

@planner

Thanks

@Cmdme

Aww man your awesome! yeah mortality rate ain't never stop me being on two wheels.

I just try use all my knowledge and riding skills that's all I can do. Yeah I will check will HD

dealership out that way. I been riding since I was 8 years old so it a big part of my life. Hey

you be safe out there, thanks for the info!

@wondering9

Hey thanks for the response. I will visit the DR first get a feel for the environment and traffic.

I decided to move there no way I can not ride. Hey people in the US can't drive 😂.

Guess I will find out who is worst. I just don't see a lot of big bikes out in the DR. I will do

more research.  Thanks take care.