Aids Agencies and Rebuilding Process for Libya

Mo_marrakech wrote:

Greeni supporting a greenie 3abed how nice. I dont know who algea thing you talking about ya 3bed.

Forget about wasting time searching for greenies, or looking for who was associated with it. After 42 years of green regime there is going to be lots of people who were "greenies".  It's over now. Time to start to collect the guns and throw in garbage. The war was fought and won and it's all over.

officeboy wrote:

Douglas, It seems your in a minority, Expats are wanted back: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011 … CMP=twt_gu

(snipped)

did you actually read the article you posted? it has nothing to do with education reform or funding of schools, colleges &  universities for libyans in libya to better libyans.

Mo_marrakech wrote:

Duglass1969 its obvious that you, your family and the people that you know are EX Greenies Lejan Thawria Gaddaifs asskissers. So We dont want you or your greenie group in Libya.

Mo M

The goal is not to continue to teach the Green book. The goal  is to make sure the new government makes rebuilding schools and universities and updating the curriculum a priority instead of spending all their time on oil and construction contracts, as education is more important -- at least it is for Libya peoples and their own future. The goal is so you can get a Western type of education within Libya instead of having to travel to foreign countries and pay foreign student tuition rates.

Let me try to explain. A 4 year degree at an accredited university costs about the same as a brand new car. If you are a foreigner, it costs about double. Most people can't afford that. In the past the old regime subsidized (paid!) for it. That's what most countries do. That's what the new Libyan government is going to have to do as well.

We think you don't need to go to a foreign university if you are going to be a Libyan and live in Libya and get a job in Libya. We think that if they make a slight change to the way universities and colleges are run and the courses taught, you can get the same type of education at much less money if you go to a college or university in Libya.

If groups like ours (or other similar groups!) don't try, the new government will not spend time or resources on it as they will think its not very important.

douglas1969 wrote:

Mo_marrakech wrote:

Duglass1969 its obvious that you, your family and the people that you know are EX Greenies Lejan Thawria Gaddaifs asskissers. So We dont want you or your greenie group in Libya.

Mo M

The goal is not to continue to teach the Green book. The goal  is to make sure the new government makes rebuilding schools and universities and updating the curriculum a priority instead of spending all their time on oil and construction contracts, as education is more important -- at least it is for Libya peoples and their own future. The goal is so you can get a Western type of education within Libya instead of having to travel to foreign countries and pay foreign student tuition rates.

Let me try to explain. A 4 year degree at an accredited university costs about the same as a brand new car. If you are a foreigner, it costs about double. Most people can't afford that. In the past the old regime subsidized (paid!) for it. That's what most countries do. That's what the new Libyan government is going to have to do as well.

We think you don't need to go to a foreign university if you are going to be a Libyan and live in Libya and get a job in Libya. We think that if they make a slight change to the way universities and colleges are run and the courses taught, you can get the same type of education at much less money if you go to a college or university in Libya.

If groups like ours (or other similar groups!) don't try, the new government will not spend time or resources on it as they will think its not very important.

How can you judge what the new government will spend or not spend on? That's just you trying to pass the word of your business or NGO interests. If a government thinks they do not need to spend on certain things..they simply will not spend, you as a foreign worker have no right to tell them what is right or wrong!!

trex wrote:

How can you judge what the new government will spend or not spend on? That's just you trying to pass the word of your business or NGO interests. If a government thinks they do not need to spend on certain things..they simply will not spend, you as a foreign worker have no right to tell them what is right or wrong!!

Trex, this is not about trying to guess or predict where or how the new government will spend money. This is about creating a  group to influence how they should spend some of their time and money. There is no business here other than getting Libyan funds to get re-directed towards Libyans schools for Libyan children. This has nothing to do with international for-profit schools or foreign schools for foreigners.

Link below..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advocacy_group

This is a lobby group for schools. But you can have a lobby group for anything under a democracy. If you want, you can have a lobby group to build more and bigger Mosques for Libyans if you want and believe its important for the people and the future of Libya and Libyans.

Hi - I hope/intend to set up English language learning opportunities using modern technology - pads, cloud computing etc. I am an experienced teacher/educationist. Hopefully with lower costs I can provide free/ cheap opps but of a high standard. Also want to employ good libyan teachers of English eventually and support them.

many of the comments is just bad stuff!!

Hello new_libya, you may also participate and give your opinion.

Harmonie.

Hi Harmonie, yep u r right n thanx 4 ur comment
The title is "Aids Agencies and Rebuilding Process for Libya" so what we can say about that?
mmmm i think the priority now for the locals n the local companies to have the business, we need some expats sure n they gona get huge contracts i think so, but we have to remember that we have thousands of Libyan experts around the world in all fields n they r planning to get back as soon as the things back to normal.
I hope everybody participate to build the new libya as much as he can, we appreciate every body who likes to help,

Mauritius, u r country is very cool Harmonie, can we exchange the places hehe:)

douglas1969 wrote:

Mo_marrakech wrote:

Greeni supporting a greenie 3abed how nice. I dont know who algea thing you talking about ya 3bed.

Forget about wasting time searching for greenies, or looking for who was associated with it. After 42 years of green regime there is going to be lots of people who were "greenies".  It's over now. Time to start to collect the guns and throw in garbage. The war was fought and won and it's all over.

searching for greenies can never be a waste of time, knowing who was so ignorant and selfish to support gaddafi despite all what he  did is very important, especially with an excuse like gaddafi never caused any harm for me, or i benifeted a lot of him.
The only conclusion I can read here is that you are a "climber" MUTASALLIQ and want to join the winning team now. I just cant believe that people can stand with one man against the whole country just because that tyranny was good to them.
that is why I consider the war isn't over the the hidden ex greenies are the current enemy who we should watch and not trust at all.
I can see that there is a hidden agenda behind your rosy project.

mancunian wrote:

.. you are a "climber" MUTASALLIQ and want to join the winning team now..

As you can tell, I edited most of your post and took out the main key point as we are once again entering the downward spiral that goes nowhere.

The previous regieme ruled for over 40 years. Lots of people gained and lots of people lost over that large a span of time. In order for you be to satisfied that you have justice, 1/2 the population would need to be killed or imprisoned, because thats probably how many peoples you will find who somehow, in one way or another, benfited at one time or another from the previous regieme.

Your thinking and your mentality are self destructive and a bigger danger to Libya and its future. This is a chance and opportunity to take a giant leap forwards for this nation and its peoples -- a chance that will not come again for a very long time. Its easy to chase people with guns and accuse them of this or that. Its much harder to rebuild a country and make it a better place for people. My efforts and path leads to a better future for your kids, your family and Libyan peoples. Where does your path lead you to?

Your path would be good if there is a real and honest desire and motive behind it, but from what we see, most of ex regime supporters are still looking for someway to destroy what has been achieved so far, and that is what I meant by we have to keep an eye on them. I don't mind benefiting from gadddaf and making money out of it in a legal way, but till the moment when most of the country turned against him, we all had to choose, either carry on supporting him killing our families and brothers or turning against him. being his supporter while he was mass killing Libyans is my problem and this would put a question mark on every rosy (from the outside) project. don't try to fool us, if you really care for Libya you should have known which side to choose. I don't hate people like you but I don't trust them at all. to improve Libya's future we need to know who really cares for Libya and Libyan people.

mancunian wrote:

...

nothing has been "achieved" yet. the country is in ruins and needs rebuilding. you want to achieve something in your life time, stop looking around for who to trust or distrust and just roll up your sleeves and start building. its not going to magically rebuild itself. and if you sit around waiting for me to do it and i sit around waiting for you to do it nothing will ever get built.

douglas1969 wrote:

mancunian wrote:

...

nothing has been "achieved" yet. the country is in ruins and needs rebuilding. you want to achieve something in your life time, stop looking around for who to trust or distrust and just roll up your sleeves and start building. its not going to magically rebuild itself. and if you sit around waiting for me to do it and i sit around waiting for you to do it nothing will ever get built.

The instability in Libya is mainly caused by ex supporters greenies, who will keep trying to destroy people's joy and sense of freedom, how would you start building while they are around you waiting for a chance to stab you and run, we need to keep an eye on them while building, as many of them have manged to hide in between the NTC and the government, we have to be careful.

mancunian wrote:

The instability in Libya is mainly caused by ex supporters greenies, who will keep trying to destroy people's joy and sense of freedom, how would you start building while they are around you waiting for a chance to stab you and run, we need to keep an eye on them while building, as many of them have manged to hide in between the NTC and the government, we have to be careful.

ok. i think you made your point.

positive reporting with the goal of improving the lives of all libyans and taking the country into the next stage of its transformation to a new and better future.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16110295

Douglas, you have good intentions but it seems that you have yet to experience life in a third world country for yourself, otherwise you'd pretty much understand what officeboy was saying about culture. It's unfortunate because you just snubbed the only intelligent person who gave you a response.

spcnmtry wrote:

Douglas, you have good intentions but it seems that you have yet to experience life in a third world country for yourself, otherwise you'd pretty much understand what officeboy was saying about culture. It's unfortunate because you just snubbed the only intelligent person who gave you a response.

Where in gods name have you read that Libya is a 3rd world country? Libya is not a 3rd world country. It has not been a 3rd world country for a long long time. In my estimation, Libya broke away from the "3rd world" in the 50s. I guess its open to debate now that its post war and in tatters.

Officeboy is a bit of a r****t -- you can clearly read it in between his postings. If the discussion you refer is the one i am thinking of, that particular discussion was revealing in itself. Here you have a person who has no knowledge or understanding or appreciation of the Libyan peoples customs, attitudes, religion and was passing judgement on how they go about making the choices they make within their own country and culture. In my view, its not really that different from an Afghani farmer with no understanding of English culture, history, traditions or Anglicanism -- showing up in a place, lets say, East Sussex, and passing judgement on the very things which make English people English and how people in East Sussex go about living their lives.

I think what you are talking about it Westernization. Westernization is not culture. It's consumerism. A Gap and Starbucks at every corner and AMEX/VISA/MC accepted everywhere. Thats a completely different discussion.

douglas1969 wrote:

...English culture, history, traditions or Anglicanism

What? The English have culture?!

douglas1969 wrote:

Sandman6 wrote:

..Libya is ******* up due to a Libyan.

Not true and you have no understanding of Libya. Qaddafi was not a typical Libyan. He was a very peculiar person and it's in the past now. Anyways, Libya will never be a Pakistan or Nigeria purely based on the fact that the population is no where near as large and no where near as diverse -- its almost all Arab.

Doug

I know Libya and Nigeria. What do you want to know? About education in Libya? I worked at the University. About Nigeria? It is diverse by so is Libya. Africans, Asians, Europeans are there. It may be almost all Arab but this could change. There is a Catholic Church in town. The future could be non sectarian.

If you want to work there get over and help out at the University or many colleges that teach there and do your bit to rebuild.

Officeboy is a bit of a r****t

Whats a r****t
Sorry for asking, but it seems I am a bit dim.

Les Pat wrote:

douglas1969 wrote:

Sandman6 wrote:

..Libya is ******* up due to a Libyan.

Not true and you have no understanding of Libya. Qaddafi was not a typical Libyan. He was a very peculiar person and it's in the past now. Anyways, Libya will never be a Pakistan or Nigeria purely based on the fact that the population is no where near as large and no where near as diverse -- its almost all Arab.

Doug

I know Libya and Nigeria. What do you want to know? About education in Libya? I worked at the University. About Nigeria? It is diverse by so is Libya. Africans, Asians, Europeans are there. It may be almost all Arab but this could change. There is a Catholic Church in town. The future could be non sectarian.

If you want to work there get over and help out at the University or many colleges that teach there and do your bit to rebuild.

I commend you on your good works.

MoEl wrote:

douglas1969 wrote:

...English culture, history, traditions or Anglicanism

What? The English have culture?!

Of course the English have culture.

douglas1969 wrote:

Where in gods name have you read that Libya is a 3rd world country? Libya is not a 3rd world country. It has not been a 3rd world country for a long long time. In my estimation, Libya broke away from the "3rd world" in the 50s.

The term "third world country" might mean different things to different people, and as a matter of fact meant something different when it was first coined, but generally most people nowadays agree that what's meant is a country that suffers from widespread poverty and a low quality of life.
People - both expats and Libyans - who whine endlessly about how horrible things are here actually annoy me greatly because Libya is one of the more prosperous and safer countries in Africa. But the fact remains that Libya still falls squarely within that definition.

douglas1969 wrote:

Officeboy is a bit of a r****t...Here you have a person who has no knowledge or understanding or appreciation of the Libyan peoples customs, attitudes, religion and was passing judgement on how they go about making the choices they make within their own country and culture.

It's not "passing judgement" when someone criticizes particular attitudes that are prevalent throughout a certain society.

He gave you an example to illustrate the fact that many parents here don't take giving their kids an education seriously. As an example in contrast to his, in the society where I grew up it just happens that most parents, among other things, insist that their children go to bed early on school nights, and only let them go out on weekends.

Condemning another culture's norms and behaviors merely on the basis they're different from yours is ignorance. But that doesn't mean that it's impossible for me to see things wrong in an alien society or culture just because I'm an outsider.

MoEl wrote:

What? The English have culture?!

Are you an idiot, or do you just enjoy acting like one?

Again douglas, I get the impression that you have never actually visited Libya. If your project is something you're seriously working on then I'd suggest you come down here for a few weeks and see the place for yourself . Look around, ask questions, get to know people. There are plenty of people out here who feel the same way you do, that the educational system here needs serious improvement.

officeboy wrote:

Whats a r****t
Sorry for asking, but it seems I am a bit dim.

Racist? Rapist? Rodent? lol.

I AM NOT A RACIST... I hate everyone equally... Sheesh... After 6 years there you would think I'd be allowed an opinion.

Stay safe people

OB

officeboy wrote:

I AM NOT A RACIST... I hate everyone equally... Sheesh... After 6 years there you would think I'd be allowed an opinion.

Stay safe people

OB

Don't feel too bad, I'm on the same page as you, OB. Besides... I am sure I read in some scientific journal, that after a certain number of experiences you are entitled to make generalizations. Anyone who has lived in Libya for 6 years, certainly qualifies!

Office Boy and snow flake,

If you were so pros and all that, why the Fk do you wana stay in libya?
Dont worry libyans will be okay without you!
We libyans we started to clean the house starting from SNC Laval and GEMS and list goes on. Only the best stays in Libya.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/exe … story.html

MoEl wrote:

[img align=C]http://conservativebyte.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/91402_600.jpg[/url]

> bearded guy dressed in Afghan robes

> war already over

> conservativebyte.com


Great. Guess that answers my question.

Mo_marrakech wrote:

Office Boy and snow flake,

If you were so pros and all that, why the Fk do you wana stay in libya?
Dont worry libyans will be okay without you!
We libyans we started to clean the house starting from SNC Laval and GEMS and list goes on. Only the best stays in Libya.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/exe … story.html

My apologies, I should have said anyone who lives anywhere for 6+ years can form their opinion....

spcnmtry wrote:

Again douglas, I get the impression that you have never actually visited Libya. If your project is something you're seriously working on then I'd suggest you come down here for a few weeks and see the place for yourself . Look around, ask questions, get to know people. There are plenty of people out here who feel the same way you do, that the educational system here needs serious improvement.

I have been to Libya and I lived in Libya a long time. Unfortunately, from what I am seeing and hearing (i.e. no one getting back to us) Libya has much more pressing things to address than the reform of it's colleges and universities. Still waiting to find out whats going to happen. I do get the feeling that Jalil is doing best he can under the circumstances. But they have to get the elections going and let people chose the new Libya asap. If the people chose conservative -- so be it -- but get it going and get it moving. The longer this gets drawn out the more people who are needed badly to rebuild the country are going to leave for safer havens.

Mo_marrakech wrote:

Office Boy and snow flake,

If you were so pros and all that, why the Fk do you wana stay in libya?
Dont worry libyans will be okay without you!
We libyans we started to clean the house starting from SNC Laval and GEMS and list goes on. Only the best stays in Libya.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/exe … story.html

That's turning out to be a very weird story unfolding weirder every week by week. I am just waiting for Aisha Q. to show up somewhere in there now.

Interesting how SNC claim they don't even look at any projects less than $300 million in value but somehow all the top gouchos were in the loop on the measly $100 million project that the execs they fired today worked on.

[moderated]

I registered here to share experience and opinion with people. But this place looks like doomed with hate. Libyans insulting anyone who have an opinion to share? They don't look like my real Libyan friends who are humble enough to be fair and just!

Magnayapi wrote:

I registered here to share experience and opinion with people. But this place looks like doomed with hate. Libyans insulting anyone who have an opinion to share? They don't look like my real Libyan friends who are humble enough to be fair and just!

+100!!!

Magnayapi wrote:

I registered here to share experience and opinion with people. But this place looks like doomed with hate. Libyans insulting anyone who have an opinion to share? They don't look like my real Libyan friends who are humble enough to be fair and just!

Those humble and friendly Libyans are watching and reading. Can you guess how many could they be?
people's attitude can vary and judging a nation's attitude by some individual replies is not fare. what you see is a result of 4 decades of the ONE MAN policy, You are either with us or against us. I am glad we are not killing each other on the streets now.

Magnayapi,

When I read you  were saying corruption is worst than before I though you were from Norway of New Zealand then I saw you were from Turky!
Turky is the place to learn the real professional corruption.
So please stop taking aim at libya, after all libya is paying your salary.