health care for non EU dependent under article 8?

Well, it depends. Does your wife want to get residency in Hungary? If so, it is actually a little more complicated for your wife. She will need a residence visa.

The usual procedure for a non-EU citizen is to go to the Hungarian Embassy in your home country and apply for a residence visa there. US Citizens do not need a visa to just visit Hungary however as a tourist. And requesting a visa permit is possible after arrival, but it is more complicated and you will need a good excuse why it could not be done before entering (with the potential for rejection). You will have to have a lot of documents officially translated into Hungarian (such as your marriage license, some of her most recent bank statements showing fiscal solvency, and other documents). It is a paperwork process with many requirements and steps. The process took 2 months for me. It was not difficult, just tedious to get all the items marked off the list that I had to do or provide. Your "mileage" may vary.

As for health care, it is required as of this year (with some exceptions) for all residences, including foreign nationals, to register with and pay into the state run health care system. I am not sure about pre-existing conditions such as pregnancy. You may also want to check if your wife is covered by UK insurance by virtue of marriage (which would be far easier to check sans language barrier).

Thanks for the response, its really complicated these days.. EU law says shes allowed in, with travel documents, proof of marriage and a visa only if necessary, but I have seen other references that say she will need other proof.

In theory she will be covered by the law, but as we are only getting a one way ticket, and her passport is set to expire before we leave (covered by EU law, only actually has to be valid at time of entry) I can see immigration getting quite difficult. We are actually traveling through Hungary, stopping for a one week orientation then going to the Czech republic (hopefully, this may change to a Hungarian placement) which may strangely make it easier (entry at hungary simple less than 3 month entry, no visa, then into czech republic and 3 month grace period to get the residency docs sorted out - hopefully).
Shes taking an insurance document, which will cover her for emergencies, fingers crossed and thanks again for the help. I'm including a link to the legislation in case anyone else comes across this.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 048:en:pdf

klsallee wrote:

Well, it depends. Does your wife want to get residency in Hungary? If so, it is actually a little more complicated for your wife. She will need a residence visa.

The usual procedure for a non-EU citizen is to go to the Hungarian Embassy in your home country and apply for a residence visa there. US Citizens do not need a visa to just visit Hungary however as a tourist. And requesting a visa permit is possible after arrival, but it is more complicated and you will need a good excuse why it could not be done before entering (with the potential for rejection). You will have to have a lot of documents officially translated into Hungarian (such as your marriage license, some of her most recent bank statements showing fiscal solvency, and other documents). It is a paperwork process with many requirements and steps. The process took 2 months for me. It was not difficult, just tedious to get all the items marked off the list that I had to do or provide. Your "mileage" may vary.

As for health care, it is required as of this year (with some exceptions) for all residences, including foreign nationals, to register with and pay into the state run health care system. I am not sure about pre-existing conditions such as pregnancy. You may also want to check if your wife is covered by UK insurance by virtue of marriage (which would be far easier to check sans language barrier).

EU law is a minimum standard. Countries can have more ridged national laws. US citizens can be in any country in the EU without a visa for a 3 month period twice in a year (total of 6 months).

You can do a fast passport replacement in the US by mail (there are companies that specialize in turn around in a few days). Not cheap, but an option. The to-be expired passport can also be updated in Budapest at the US Embassy but this should be done before it actually expires. There is even a photo machine in the Embassy for the new passport photo. I renewed my passport in Budapest last year.

klsallee wrote:

.... There is even a photo machine in the Embassy for the new passport photo. I renewed my passport in Budapest last year.

You're lucky your government has some concept of service to the citizen.

The British Embassy stopped issuing passports a couple of years ago. Now, British citizens have to apply to some inefficient, slow, dimwitted and abusively expensive outsourced outfit located at or near the British Embassy in Duesseldorf (why Duesseldorf?). The other option is to do what a lot of people are now doing and that is to go back to the UK for a new passport.

Hi,

To the original question:
I'm not up to date on how you sign up for the state-run health insurance, but it should cost less than $100 a month for the two of you, and there should not be any problem with "preexisting conditions": once you are covered, the health care providers can charge any procedure to the state.

Around childbirth you are expected to bribe your doctor to get you proper care at the state-funded hospital, around $50-100 at monthly checkups, around $500 at the actual birth. Comparable to completely legal private care facilities with civilized conditions, so shop around.

szocske wrote:

....Around childbirth you are expected to bribe your doctor to get you proper care at the state-funded hospital, around $50-100 at monthly checkups, around $500 at the actual birth. Comparable to completely legal private care facilities with civilized conditions, so shop around.

$500 seems quite expensive. We paid the bribe after the birth and it cost about EUR 150. We didn't pay any bribes at the check ups. It seemed to be more like a tip than a bribe.

Of course it's not called "bribe", it is called "gratitude".

Wow, just reading this makes me flash back to 2 years ago with immigration in Budapest. What a nightmare!!
You will need to contact them, go in a wait for ever.
They will send you to an office to get official translations made up of your marriage papers, birth certificate etc. for your wife. Doesn't matter if you are an EU citizen or not, she isn't and they seem to be against Americans from my experience. The staff at immigration was super young with an attitude like they were mini- Gods, your fate in their hands and you had better listen up or else. Corrupt would be another word for it. The one young man who was suppose to speak some English didn't know as much as he thought he did. My husband had to save the day and speak only HU to the guy.
They had us run all over the city with paperwork and paying fees for every paper that got stamped officially. They are really into getting the right seals and stamps on everything. Bring money with you to immigration and be ready to wait it out.
Maybe the co. that hired you will do this leg work for you, I would demand it if I was you.
She will have to buy her own health coverage to get a resident visa even if you are from the EU.
My husband and son are both Hungarian citizens, my husband was born and worked in Hu in his youth. I have been married for 40 years to him and they still almost made me leave the country because my papers were held up in one of their offices. Not a very good system unless you hire a lawyer.
Had to show we had enough money to support ourselves here for me to stay,show bank accounts, income from US SS,show the ownerships papers on our flat, the list was long and it was extremely stressful. We also had to register in our districts city hall as being married. If you do not speak or read Hungarian it is going to be very hard to do all of this on your own.
My husband got so upset with immigration services here that we almost just packed up and sold our flat.
Seems like the immigration services likes to deal with lawyers they must get a kick back of some sort. Seriously lawyers would just walk in, cut in line and handle immigration for dozens of immigrants from Asia and Africa while those of us doing our own paperwork waited and waited .Almost like they wanted to break you down and go ahead and hire a lawyer. My husband stood by his rights as a HU citizen and didn't give up but it was a hard road to go.
I can be the wife and mother of 2 Hungarian citizens but they almost threw me out because of paperwork.
I hope my case was just a flook and it isn't so difficult for you. Good luck with all of that...

Sometimes we tip so much to see the doctors that we can barely afford to buy the medications they gave us! Crazy here, never know how much is enough to tip. Some doctors take tips and some do not, more take then decline though.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Wow, just reading this makes me flash back to 2 years ago with immigration in Budapest. What a nightmare!!
You will need to contact them, go in a wait for ever.
They will send you to an office to get official translations made up of your marriage papers, birth certificate etc. for your wife. Doesn't matter if you are an EU citizen or not, she isn't and they seem to be against Americans from my experience. The staff at immigration was super young with an attitude like they were mini- Gods, your fate in their hands and you had better listen up or else. Corrupt would be another word for it. The one young man who was suppose to speak some English didn't know as much as he thought he did. My husband had to save the day and speak only HU to the guy.
They had us run all over the city with paperwork and paying fees for every paper that got stamped officially. ......

Welcome to the Hungary bureaucracy.  I had the same experience when I arrived here for the first time in 1994 and I had professional help and an highly expert interpreter.  It all wasted an awful lot of time and I felt totally humiliated by the lack of respect shown and there inordinate amount of suspicion (it was only 5 years after the fall of communism).  There was no fast track. Now HU is in the EU, I do not have these immigration issues but there is other paperwork.  Mrs Fluffy deals with the government people these days. What I know from recent interactions is that speaking Hungarian completely changes the bureaucrats' attitudes and not everything has to be by the book, Procedures can be sometimes negotiated within limits.  Best thing is to try to be as "helpful" as possible and above all keep calm.  Civil servants are prisoners of the system, in low paid jobs, it's a blame culture and inventiveness is not something they are allowed to explore. Political types who invent the laws are really the ones who need to be held to account. One thing Hungarians need to do is improve their language skills. Down the road in Croatia and everywhere in the FRY, everyone is speaking very good English indeed.  Hungary will be at a disadvantage unless they improve their language training.   

While people feel violated by the disrespectful treatment by the bureaucracy in Hungary, it's worth remembering the reciprocal experiences of foreign travellers into places and I single out the USA particularly.  US immigration inspectors are very rude and nasty people who view everyone, including little kids, as a potential criminals. They have no consideration for non-US citizens and must be hired on the basis of having an excess paranoia genes. My experiences of them has been entirely negative except one time in San Francisco airport where the immigration guy was quite laid back, engaged in light hearted banter and was pleasant. On the other hand, I have had no negative experiences visiting Canadian bureaucracy where it seems everyone has been on a customer service and politeness training course and what's more, they like to use it.  Because of my and my family experiences I avoid travelling to the USA like the plague.
 
Just my 2-forints worth.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Crazy here, never know how much is enough to tip. Some doctors take tips and some do not, more take then decline though.

It is a "tip". Give if you want. Give the amount you wish, including zero if you want. Don't over think it.

fluffy2560 wrote:

US immigration inspectors are very rude and nasty people who view everyone, including little kids, as a potential criminals.

Sorry you had bad experiences, but they are also just people, have bad and good days, and probably have to put up with more crap in their job, processing 10s of thousands of passengers a day, than you can imagine. I always am friendly and kind, and when you act like that you may be surprised how many immigration officials at US airports that start out grumpy end up smiling and wishing me well when they are done processing me.

Still having to take off my shoes, however, now that is just silly (especially when I wear thin soled leather sandals).

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Seriously lawyers would just walk in, cut in line and handle immigration for dozens of immigrants from Asia and Africa while those of us doing our own paperwork waited and waited .

One thing I quickly learned when moving to Hungary is, for better or for worse (mostly worse), it is a "know a guy" society. You get away with a lot, or get action faster on an issue, if you "know a guy".

If you don't "know a guy" you will get your issue processed, but it often will take longer.

klsallee wrote:

..... You get away with a lot, or get action faster on an issue, if you "know a guy".

If you don't "know a guy" you will get your issue processed, but it often will take longer.

Absolutely right.  The quality of "knowing a guy" is highly variable though. Some guys pretend they are connected but reality is sometimes something else.

klsallee wrote:

...Sorry you had bad experiences, but they are also just people, have bad and good days, and probably have to put up with more crap in their job, processing 10s of thousands of passengers a day, than you can imagine. I always am friendly and kind, and when you act like that you may be surprised how many immigration officials at US airports that start out grumpy end up smiling and wishing me well when they are done processing me...

If you are a US citizen then you will treated entirely differently at a US border post than a non-citizen.  If you turn up in London and you are an EU citizen they will be OK with you as waving you in is a formality. If you are not an EU citizen then you'll get hassled on a scale according to who you are.  US, Australian, Canadian, New Zealanders, Singaporeans etc will be more or less just stamped immediately without too much ado or cross examination as they are "trusted". But if you're say, Ugandan or from Mozambique then you'll get treated pretty abruptly and impolitely.  US border officials seem to be just universally nasty whoever you are, no-one (non-US means at all) can be "trusted" and we're all risky people.  Therefore, it's just best avoided. 

My main message is that complaining about the Hungarian way of treating visitors with bureaucracy and general rudeness is reciprocated as an experience for those of us foreigners unfortunate enough to have come into contact with US border officials.  It's not just the US either,  UAE (Dubai) border officials are equally annoyingly rude.

My  best advice is to have all your visa matters in order before leaving the US.
I had so many problems because we went to the immigration office in Budapest to get my resident papers.
My Hungarian husband thought it would be no problem to get things in order in HU because he mistakenly thought I had a clear case to get a resident permit as I am the wife and mother and ex MIL of Hungarian citizens.
Not true if you are not a citizen of an EU country then it is expensive and time consuming to get done here in HU.
My husband was very upset in the "official" one and only translation office.
He raised all heck and thought they might even have him removed which he didn't care about as he was that upset.
We had to get our marriage papers translated and they quoted him around $100. for the short one page translation.
Ok, he was ready to pay that and he was waiting his turn for service. He started to speak to a Hungarian from Romania who also just needed a marriage paper translation. He was quoted only 3,000 forints! Roughly around $15.
My husband asked why he had to pay more then 6 times that amount for the same service
They told him some lame answer like it costs more to translate English then Romanian.
He was outraged but paid as he was over a barrel by that time, we had already gone half way though the immigration paperwork. When he picked up the translation 2 weeks later they gave him a 4,000 forint rebate, guess making a fuss over their pricing made them rethink how unfair they are. He was till upset and we were still over charged and there was nothing we could do about it but suck it up.
They assume that English speakers must have more money to spend so they try to take advantage.
Something new to get used to here, if you speak English be prepared to pay more here and there for the same services as someone who speaks the local language.
Often my husband dresses down and makes me wait outside shops because otherwise the prices are higher for us.
This sort of attitude really upsets him as he is embarrassed that his own countrymen can be so scummy.

fluffy2560 wrote:

If you are a US citizen then you will treated entirely differently at a US border post than a non-citizen.

I am aware of that. My wife is not a US Citizen and has gone through immigration. And even as a US Citizen, I can tell you they can be grumpy to US citizens as well.  And when my company hosted international conferences, you will surprised how many people from different countries try to get conference documents from us to try to get visas with no real intent to go to the conference. So if immigration is suspicious of some countries, they do have cause (and in your list I have received scam requests for visas so there is indeed cause).

But that also does not negate what I wrote. Which was simply: Be pleasant, even when others are not, and you can help make their day better. After all, you have to "suffer" immigration for a short period in line and at the counter, but the immigration officers they have to do this all day, day after day, week after week with people that just spent 10 hours all crammed together into a long metal tube (which does not make them too pleasant either).

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

They assume that English speakers must have more money to spend so they try to take advantage.

Basically, yes.

But as I stated on my blog, this is not a Hungarian novelty as Mr Blandings discovered (great to listen to it all, but skip to minute 10:15 for “standard top gouge price to city slickers”).

So they are also probably correct, more often than not, in the assumption that English speakers have more money to spend (at least relative to what the locals have).

Historically, one must also look at it from their side: when the wall fell western people with money came and offered pennies on the dollar for the real value of local land and services. The locals finally "wised up" and turned the tables. They do, however, tend to overdo it a bit at the moment. But pendulums swing. If you benefit or loose depends on how near the apex of that swing things are at any point of time.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Often my husband dresses down and makes me wait outside shops because otherwise the prices are higher for us.

By the way, technically retail shops are suppose to show the price on a product (by law) so they can not adjust the price depending on who is buying at the cashier. The issue is less clear and not regulated for private sellers (such as between individuals selling and buying land, cars, boats, etc.) As for myself, if there are no prices listed in a brick and mortar store, I usually leave the store as they are probably crooks anyway. If you decide to stay, it is buyer beware.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

If you are a US citizen then you will treated entirely differently at a US border post than a non-citizen.

klsallee wrote:

...when my company hosted international conferences, you will surprised how many people from different countries try to get conference documents from us to try to get visas with no real intent to go to the conference. So if immigration is suspicious of some countries, they do have cause (and in your list I have received scam requests for visas so there is indeed cause).

The risk factors from visitors from the EU, Australia, NZ etc are absolutely negligible. Uganda sure, one might believe that but then again, you cannot blame them for trying.

klsallee wrote:

But that also does not negate what I wrote. Which was simply: Be pleasant, even when others are not, and you can help make their day better. After all, you have to "suffer" immigration for a short period in line and at the counter, but the immigration officers they have to do this all day, day after day, week after week with people that just spent 10 hours all crammed together into a long metal tube (which does not make them too pleasant either).

Sounds like pissing off the passengers entirely reasonable simply because border officials are in McJobs. I should point out that visitors to the US should not be misled into believing that they are not protected by the US constitution. It does applies to everyone inside the territory of the US, including immigrants legal or otherwise (i.e. illegals or visitors). Unfortunately US constitution says nothing about being polite.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Unfortunately US constitution says nothing about being polite.

Nor does English Common Law it seems....

I simply try to appeal to the innate natural humanity I hope is in each of us. Sans nationality. But, I am not alway successful, I sadly have to admit.

What gets us about being over charged is that my husband is a Hungarian born and raised in Budapest.
He has been away for 40 years and has retired in his home country. He was expecting to be treated like any other Hungarian not as a newcomer or sucker.' 
Example about being over charged in shops and businesses for having an American wife with him are:
In our district we tried to support small private business.
We went a few times to a local butcher shop.
last visit the owner had a sign outside his shop with clearly posted prices for a cut of meat.
We ordered a kilo of his meat that was on sale. He charged us for prime grade meat, more then double the posted price for a low quality cut of meat.
My husband asked him why he was not being charged the sale/posted price for such a low grade of meat. The owner got huffy and  stomped out side, turned the sign outside backwards and told us that it is no longer for sale at that price.
He was busted for over charging but refused to step up as a business owner and stand by his prices and proper business practice of the customer is right.
Husband told him clearly n Hungarian what he could do with his dirty old meat and we walked out.We are sure if I had not spoken in English in the shop we would of gotten the posted price.
Another time in our own district we stopped in for a beer at a small corner bar.
They also has posted prices for a glass of beer outside the shop.
We gave the lady barkeeper a 1,000 forint bill for 2 beers that should of cost under 400 forints for the posted price of the beers.
She had a bar full of regulars and it was mid day so her till should of had change in it by that time of day.
She came right out and told my husband she had no change for a 1,000 forint bill. She was tipping herself to more then 50% of the total.
We  drank down our beers feeling uncomfortable with everyone looking at us as if they were all in on a joke.
Husband asked for his change before we left the bar. She made a big deal out of"borrowing" change from other customers. My husband did tip her but not the 600 forints she thought she deserved for being rude and cross.
I would of left her nothing because of that terrible service. I have worked in several service industry jobs and never witnessed anything like this before.
We hardly every do business in our 7th district any longer with small shop owners because of several of these small but nasty experiences.
We are retired older people and if we had extra money we sure would not have moved to HU. There are many other places to grow old then here where you can't trust anyone.