National vs. private health insurance, Covid coverage, vaccine

markons wrote:

Dear all,
Anyone has the same situation like myself?
Living in Hungary, but employed abroad (outside EU), I'm in my 40s.
I am overwhelmed with info about TAJ, this or that health insurance...

What I need is a coverage for emergencies (I have full health insurance in a neighbouring non-EU country so I do not need a second full coverage in Hungary).
I'd very much like to be covered for Covid (that's an emergency, isn't it), but e.g. Generali does not have a Covid-only policy.
Also, I'd like to be vaccinated for Covid. Any option to pay for that as a one off service with no actual National health insurance?
Very grateful for useful input.
Marko

We need a bit more.   

Are you an EU citizen and is your employer in an EU country?  Where is your actual  residence?  Do you commute across borders weekly or daily? These questions are important.

The HU government controls all COVID vaccines and there's NO option for a private vaccination regardless of paying for it.

You might want to follow the COVID19 discussion here: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=890802

Dear Fluffy,
Thank you for your answer.

So, my situation is a bit specific.
I have dual citizenship - Serbian (non-EU) and Italian (EU).
I am employed in Serbia (non-EU) and I have full health insurance in Serbia.
I have residence in Serbia and in Hungary (Budapest) and am currently living in Budapest.
I have no medical coverage in Hungary.
I do not commute or cross the border regularly - lately it's been very difficult and requires a 10-day quarantine on return.
So, I could get a vaccine in Serbia any day (anyone can, even foreigners can get a Covid vaccine in Serbia these days), but I do not wish to be in a 10-day quarantine on my return to Hungary (obliged even for those who had the Covid shot).

So I have no health insurance anywhere in EU.
I do not wish to pay large amounts for a full coverage when I already have one in Serbia.
I just need a coverage for emergencies - Covid included.
And an option to get the vaccine in Hungary.

Thank you for any assistance you can provide.
Best,
Marko

markons wrote:

I have residence in Serbia and in Hungary (Budapest) and am currently living in Budapest.
I have no medical coverage in Hungary.

How were you able to register your residency in HU without medical insurance, it's a basic requirement IIRC. You did register, right?

I have residence in HU and no medical insurance.
I simply submitted a written statement that I will cover all medical costs. That is an option for EU citizens.
I could have paid the cheapest Generali policy, but what for?
It does not cover almost anything. It is useless when you need assistance.
Best,
Marko

markons wrote:

I have residence in HU and no medical insurance.
I simply submitted a written statement that I will cover all medical costs. That is an option for EU citizens.
I could have paid the cheapest Generali policy, but what for?
It does not cover almost anything. It is useless when you need assistance.
Best,
Marko

You say you're a dual national - is it possible to pay voluntarily in Italy and get an Italian EHIC (European Health Insurance Card)?   This might be enough as that would cover you for emergencies.

My own country (UK) still has access to EHICs and even without that everyone is covered on a reciprocal regardless for emergency coverage in Serbia and a few other countries - might need payment upfront though.  Might be the same Serbia to Hungary.

It is possible theoretically to pay here for a TAJ card at a rate of 8000 HUF a month but trying to get the HU authorities to agree to it is very difficult.  It means a low level battle of letters with them.  They will automatically assume you live in Italy and are paid there and should be covered there.  You'd think they'd welcome the income. 

What they don't want is someone paying the social security health component in two places within two countries with a social security agreement. 

Another way might be to get all year travel insurance to cover you.  But that's something you'd need to investigate in some detail.   The market for insurance is not very dynamic in Hungary.  It's certainly  possible to get covered for COVID in the UK for worldwide travel.  It used to be possible even to do that for EU citizens anywhere in the EU but in these post-Brexit days, the situation is unclear.

Dear fluffy,
I don't think I can get Italian EHIC. I do have the Italian citizenship, but I've never worked or even lived in Italy, only Serbia.
This option to get TAJ for 8.000 Ft - I heard about that years ago, and was now hoping someone here would confirm it.
But from your answer, I see it is very difficult to get, and that doesn't surprise me at all.
This is exactly the kind of input I was hoping to get here - not theoretical one, but the actual effort involved to make it happen.
I am very grateful for this because going through all that trouble... not really worth it, and you saved me the time investigating it myself. Thank you.

I suppose in the end, I will have to stay without health insurance in Hungary (as I have been for years) and to eventually go to Serbia to get the Covid shot there.

If I can now perhaps be helpful to someone:
Anyone wishing to get the Astra Zeneca vaccine can get one in Serbia for free, even foreigners without residence in Serbia. So, if anyone is desperate to get the shot - you can go to Belgrade or Novi Sad (Ujvidek in Hungarian).

Thanks for your interest and help.
Marko

markons wrote:

Dear fluffy,
I don't think I can get Italian EHIC. I do have the Italian citizenship, but I've never worked or even lived in Italy, only Serbia.
This option to get TAJ for 8.000 Ft - I heard about that years ago, and was now hoping someone here would confirm it.
But from your answer, I see it is very difficult to get, and that doesn't surprise me at all.
This is exactly the kind of input I was hoping to get here - not theoretical one, but the actual effort involved to make it happen.
I am very grateful for this because going through all that trouble... not really worth it, and you saved me the time investigating it myself. Thank you.

I suppose in the end, I will have to stay without health insurance in Hungary (as I have been for years) and to eventually go to Serbia to get the Covid shot there.

If I can now perhaps be helpful to someone:
Anyone wishing to get the Astra Zeneca vaccine can get one in Serbia for free, even foreigners without residence in Serbia. So, if anyone is desperate to get the shot - you can go to Belgrade or Novi Sad (Ujvidek in Hungarian).

Thanks for your interest and help.
Marko

You could try and apply for a TAJ card but I expect you will be rejected immediately without them even thinking about it because of the Italian passport - go back to Italy is their attitude.   Then you've got to start arguing.   It's TAJ card issuance first, then paying the money to NAV.  It's more than one hurdle.  NAV do not query why you pay, just know it's allowed by the Health Fund.  The chances of them giving in is remote but if you have someone to help you in Hungarian, you can give it a go.   

There's a form you can fill in (in Hungarian) - it's  listed in the forum somewhere.  You'd have to search - I posted the link but don't remember the details.

You'll need the address card and the immigration registration certificate used for EU citizens plus passport.  It might work but it might not. 

The Health Fund people are unable  or unwilling to comprehend someone works in another country but lives in HU some of the time and wants to pay voluntarily.   Not a scenario they imagined might happen.

Do let us know how you get on with it.  Be useful for others.

It's a good idea to look at the COVID19 forum.  There's a lot of discussion there and the Serbian experience would really add to the conversation.   Here, the anti-vaxxers are rumoured to be stopping people opting for AZ version and consequently there are supposed to be plenty of unused vaccines around but foreigners ineligible at this present time.  I doubt there would be a rush to Serbia - quarantine conditions would stop people.

p.s. here's the form for NEAK (Health Fund).

Click here for PDF.

I think I would try and go for EHIC from Italy. Do you have any family in Italy that can receive the card and send it to you?

SimCityAT wrote:

I think I would try and go for EHIC from Italy. Do you have any family in Italy that can receive the card and send it to you?

Unfortunately not. My Italian connection is a bit specific also. No relatives in Italy, never lived or worked in Italy.
So my situation is closer I suppose to anyone coming from a third country, like the USA, Canada... in my case Serbia, with the advantage that I have EU citizenship, which allowed me easy residence permit in Hungary (even without any health insurance).

I might try with TAJ, when I have the time.
Thanks:)

FYI, as of today people without TAJ can register for vaccination on vakcinainfo site (keep an eye on the other Covid thread that was linked to earlier). Though it is unclear what options we will get.

A TAJ experience in progress
I myself am a EU citizen, but without TAJ; at immigration I was told a private insurance would suffice, and that I could not get a TAJ because I did not have a job.

Last week I asked the government office about applying for TAJ , and they said it was actually mandatory all along! I'm not sure if this is correct for someone with private insurance though, as I've been told different things by different government employees now...

I was told to ask for a E104 form from my home country insurance, and submit my NEAK TAJ form digitally per email.

My wife is non EU, and has a TAJ through her job for a local office of a non EU company. Which brings me to a few questions/observations:

- if you have a Serbian employer, is it possible for them to apply for your TAJ?
- You or they can ask what the procedure is for a non-eu company, with a employee in Hu. Maybe there is a unknown path there?
- if you have residence based on your Italian passport, AND you have a job.. you have more to show for than me! They can deny my application of course if I apply, but the gov employees didn't give that impression*. So where possible mention / focus on the Italian side.
- Do I understand correctly that you have a Serbian insurance that doesn't cover Hungary? If i may ask, do you need the Serbian insurance then if you are not there? Is it because it is only temporary? My insurance from the home country got canceled when I moved abroad, and instead I got an expat focused insurance (still from the home country) - which was a little bit more expensive but covered more than Hungarian equivalents.


*I got an appointment by email at the NEAK Ügyfélszolgálat, Teve utca. People there checked my papers, country of origin (EU), and if i had a E104 form. They explained the procedure; me to send them NEAK and E104 form digitally.

darrom wrote:

My insurance from the home country got canceled when I moved abroad

Does your Serbian employer know that you've moved out of the country? Are you staying in HU longer than 6months/year? Are you paying taxes in HU?

darrom wrote:

....

I was told to ask for a E104 form from my home country insurance, and submit my NEAK TAJ form digitally per email.

....


*I got an appointment by email at the NEAK Ügyfélszolgálat, Teve utca. People there checked my papers, country of origin (EU), and if i had a E104 form. They explained the procedure; me to send them NEAK and E104 form digitally.

The E104 form is the inter-EU form for mutual recognition of social security contributions.   

NEAK believes this is what it needs on the basis of nationality, not previous residence. 

So as I said in my posts in the other threads, you could be an EU citizen born and brought up in Timbuctoo or Ulanbataar, they will still ask the country of nationality to pay, even if that EU citizen has never set foot in the country of nationality or paid into that system.

The NEAK has to ask the other country for the records, not the individual.  The form data is returned to NEAK who make the application. I believe the data is provided electronically.

Basically, they are saying to the country of nationality, pay for your national here.  Doesn't really make a lot of sense if one wants to voluntarily pay the contribution here.  Kind of irrelevant what went before.

I have dual residence, in Serbia (non-EU) and Budapest, and I like to keep it that way.
The distance between my 2 places of residence is 300km only.
It's not like I've come from overseas.
It suits me to go to and fro.
My employer couldn't care less about my whereabouts but only to the extent that they do not waste time arranging my health insurance.
I wish to keep my Serbian health insurance (I never know where I'm going to be tomorrow - Serbia or Hungary) and was hoping to pay the Hungarian insurance myself.
But though it appears to be only 8000 ft, it is difficult to get.
Luckily, it is now possible to register for the vaccine, so not having medical insurance in HU is no longer such a big problem for me.
Thanks

markons wrote:

I have dual residence, in Serbia (non-EU) and Budapest, and I like to keep it that way.
The distance between my 2 places of residence is 300km only.
It's not like I've come from overseas.
It suits me to go to and fro.
My employer couldn't care less about my whereabouts but only to the extent that they do not waste time arranging my health insurance.
I wish to keep my Serbian health insurance (I never know where I'm going to be tomorrow - Serbia or Hungary) and was hoping to pay the Hungarian insurance myself.
But though it appears to be only 8000 ft, it is difficult to get.
Luckily, it is now possible to register for the vaccine, so not having medical insurance in HU is no longer such a big problem for me.
Thanks

Actually maybe you could simply fill in their forms and because you are a national of Italy, they will ask the Italians what you've been paying.  That's what they think they should do.   

In your case - as I understand it - the Italian response would be, "zero" or "no record", so that could mean you could become eligible to pay the HUF 8K a month in HU and get a TAJ card.   

I'm no expert but my guess is the Serbians don't even come into the calculation.  It's not an EU country so and E104 is irrelevant to them.   They don't care if you pay there and here.   Depends if there's an agreement on social security payments.

Be an interesting test to see if they just agree when they get nothing back from Italy.

The foreigner registration is fine but no-one has reported they had the vaccination yet.  I am working on the basis of not getting both jabs before July.  Too long  in my mind.   I don't know how many TAJ-less foreigners are here but I expect maybe 50,000 as a guess.  They will take ages to get around to everyone.