what happens if Saudi Govt relax the current strict rules???

Alright! Here we go again

saudi is a special country
if we became like other we will not be so special
and we do not want to lose this thing

'Special' is an interesting word.

I use it a lot in regards to KSA, too

Like in "Special" Ed.

or special olypmics LOL

So most of you doesn't like the changes here. Some one say this is special here. what is special

I belive, unless theif doesn't stop his activities, Theft cann't be stopped.

It is the person refects not the culture or any.....

sweetchoice my dear
people have there believes
and Saudis have there own believes
you can't say it's wrong nor right , because WE DON"T JUDGE PEOPLE GOD DOES
and if you don't like it then try to live with it
if you can't live with it , simply don't
the important thing is stop whining
pardon my french

Or Special as in a Medical Terms

cloud,

that wasn't French!

Not only wasn't it French in the literal sense, it wasn't even 'French' in the American slang sense (ie. swear words!).

My real feeling about all this is that *I* came here by choice, knowing the rules upfront.  It's very different (and difficult) compared to where I come from, but I made the choice to come here and I can make the choice to leave!

I really can't bring myself to complain (too much lol) or I'd be acting like those people I despise, the ones who emigrate to the USA and then try to change what we've had there for hundreds of years just because it doesn't suit their particular sensibilities.

sweetchoice wrote:

If Saudi Govt Relax the rules like Dubai or Bahrain. Open to all like No restriction, Theaters allowed,women driving, Clubs are accepted except No Alchacol and No flush business ( No tourist women allowed for long stay)

This will reduce the inapproprite realtions. Women walks in the street with out fear. Men live a displined life.

and then suddenly i woke up and realized and em back in real world[named Saudi Arabia]

Look!i was the one who never wanted to be here as a resident but then i realized"hey com on NoNZ,its not that bad in fact its better"

embargo on women driving always pissed me off because i have never been dependent and in Riyadh u 'd hardly find unaccompanied women in Taxis [btw ya r lucky to be in Dammam at least]  but when i realized about the culture and "The desperate"men....i thought"Ok Ok now i m getting your point saudi Govt"

and about the clubs;dear believe me u r asking for too much:D

Com on yar make friends ,do your get together s,have loud music and then "twist you twist"

Oh my lord!enough with my damn lecture:D

Alliecat wrote:

cloud,

that wasn't French!

Not only wasn't it French in the literal sense, it wasn't even 'French' in the American slang sense (ie. swear words!).

My real feeling about all this is that *I* came here by choice, knowing the rules upfront.  It's very different (and difficult) compared to where I come from, but I made the choice to come here and I can make the choice to leave!

I really can't bring myself to complain (too much lol) or I'd be acting like those people I dispise, the ones who emigrate to the USA and then try to change what we've had there for hundreds of years just because it doesn't suit their particular sensibilities.

that what i'm talking about
if there any change could happen it should came from the citizens , That's their right
believe me i'm really sorry if any one don't fit or don't
like it here
and as a citizen i'll do any thing to get you to love this country but i won't change my beliefs to satisfied any one
PS: Alliecat thanks for correcting me

I think for the ppl that don't like it in Saudi enough to complain there is a great saying that my mother would use...

"you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here"!!!

sounds about right! haha

"Most of the time, Human Psychology is trying to involve with controveries or which is prohibited like ADAM (SAL) did "

So when I say 1000 benefits of Saudi Rules no one care --But  when I tried to critiCize, people saying that no no Saudi Rules are ok

Islamic rules are universal that is why muslim countries like Saudi has less numbers in CRIME , they are Rich and high in peace

it reminds some proverbs

"Failures are path way for success"

"You know people very well when u are in trouble"

So when I say 1000 benefits of Saudi Rules no one care --But  when I tried to critiCize, people saying that no no Saudi Rules are ok

Well, I never heard you say anything about benefits in any of your posts here--maybe I missed it? lol


And as for saying Saudi rules are okay, I never said they're okay for ME, but since I came here by CHOICE (I wasn't
"shanghai'ed" and woke up in Riyadh!), it's up to ME to adapt.
If I can't adapt and am filled with anger and resentment, it's time to leave!

Something that works for me here in Saudi is to view all of this as a kind of 'social experiment.'  I'm fortunate enough to be an observer--not a real part of it--trying to make sense of it.  If you can maintain your perspective, you'll be much better off (easier said than done, I know--best of luck to you).

"one of the most but important factor, males in saudi has to understand is ,, you save money-- my friends who are in Dubai and Bahrain ( either family men or single) earns big money but cann't save money as the labour man in saudi saves. hope u should make deep survey"

Again u might say that earning money is for what? -- to enjoy right

But u know, the enjoyment which we thought like seeing movies, making big parties, doing all non sense shopping and keep ourselves busy for nothing ---- will be bored once we keep doing it

U never get peace in soul as u pray all five times prayer in time after that u sit for even 2 mins for God rememeberence

i cann't explain we should feel it dear -- alliecat -- sorry to say only about Islamic way ( I am not Islamic terrorist) but what ever religion u are in to u can perform as per its direction

when u have free time u think lot -- especially about creation, about ourselves, about life and so on .... when u think lot ur desire comes in control -- when u know how to control ur desire no one can succed u, I think SAUDI is only place gives more free time as u don't have  much entrainment around u . U keep complains but with out knowingly u are saving ur time,money, controling ur soul.

Even most of the middle east doesn't have TAX problem but Except saudi no one can save much money than othe places

It is only my point of view -- people can express ur views-- mine may be wrong so pls write ur views

Ummm.. I'm not quite sure what you just said.

Are you now saying the benefits of living in Saudi?

there could be a possiblity of indiscipline...

Alliecat wrote:

Ummm.. I'm not quite sure what you just said.

Are you now saying the benefits of living in Saudi?

yes you read it right Alliecat:P

sweetchoice wrote:

It is only my point of view -- people can express ur views-- mine may be wrong so pls write ur views

Okay, I'll take a stab at it.  I know it's generally futile to attempt to pry open the thoughts of the hopelessly narrow-minded...but

sweetchoice wrote:

But u know, the enjoyment which we thought like seeing movies, making big parties, doing all non sense shopping and keep ourselves busy for nothing ---- will be bored once we keep doing it

Really?  So you think Westerners are bored by going to the cinema? (Look at the amount of money spent on cinema tickets worldwide...and give that one some more thought).

Parties and socializing are boring?  Yes, that must be why we see so many people in other countries saying..."Oh, please, not ANOTHER party.  It's too boring."

As for nonsense shopping, I see more of that here than in any other country I have ever lived in. Glamorous women's clothing that only people at home see, because it's covered by an abaya to all others; hair products for hair that no one sees; cosmetics for faces which no one sees.  Yes, that nonsense shopping thing has a definitive meaning here.

I have never seen so much gaudy ugly nonsense for sale as I see in the Kingdom.

sweetchoice wrote:

U never get peace in soul as u pray all five times prayer in time after that u sit for even 2 mins for God rememeberence

I'm not even going to touch this one...but I could write a treatise about it.

sweetchoice wrote:

i cann't explain we should feel it dear -- alliecat -- sorry to say only about Islamic way ( I am not Islamic terrorist) but what ever religion u are in to u can perform as per its direction

Coming from cultures that separate religion from the governance of the population, many of us find it abhorrent that religious dictates limit the lives of the population.  Only those that have experienced this kind of freedom can see the terribly repressive nature of a state-sponsored religion.

sweetchoice wrote:

when u have free time u think lot -- especially about creation, about ourselves, about life and so on .... when u think lot ur desire comes in control -- when u know how to control ur desire no one can succed u, I think SAUDI is only place gives more free time as u don't have  much entrainment around u . U keep complains but with out knowingly u are saving ur time,money, controling ur soul.

In my free time I don't spend a lot of time thinking about creation.  Once you have thought about it thoroughly a few times...the issues never change.  It's a waste of time to think a lot about something you can never, ever really know but have to take on faith.

Do you really think desires are controlled in this culture?  Repressed, yes.  Driven underground, yes.  But there is not control of desires.  There is just control of what can be seen in public.  Those of us that live here, listen and keep our eyes open hear, see and know some of the nasty things that aren't spoken about in public; the buggery of young men, because someone cannot control his sexual desire for women; the abuse and rape of household servants from poorer third-world countries because someone cannot control their desires; the instances of marital rape and abuse because someone cannot control their desires.

I am not saying there are other countries without problems.  I am saying that if you think the repression of will and desire brings about a utopia, then I say you are wrong.

KSA is no utopia.

sweetchoice wrote:

Even most of the middle east doesn't have TAX problem but Except saudi no one can save much money than othe places

Taxes in other countries largely pay for social service programs...which don't exist to any significant degree here.  The fact that salaries aren't taxed here doesn't mean you save any more money.  The salaries are reduced to the same rate.

If you were to make 10,000SAR a month with no taxes, your salary (if there were 30% taxes) would be 13,000SAR a month.  The belief that no taxes means you earn more is very poor logic.

Do you want to know what would really happen if the government relaxed all of the restrictions we are talking about?

The government would cease to exist within a matter of months.  There would be revolution in the streets.  There would be blood running in the gutters and the place would be propelled into a long and ugly civil war.

MisterStretch thanks for yout time taking and case to case reply

nonz and alliecat -- what u say now

regarding movies --- how many hits the box office -- unless u give new thoughts or interesting things in the movie like AVATAR and 2012 ------- there are many failures

but people don't wanna spend time and money on the same stereo type movies


Regarding TAX, if u are earing more ( as per ur logical statement) and not doing non sense shopping ( like u said , u never purchase cosmetics and other thing which saudi female or other feamle like to do )you don't have entrainment too -- so u automatcially save money ---

if u save money u will be finacially storger and that keeps u mentally stronger to at one stage of life

I'm not being lazy--HONEST!--but there's not much need for me to say more.  MisterStretch not only nailed it but also impressed the hell out of me by how articulately he presented his views!

SC...because you probably don't read news about the entertainment industry, you might not have noticed that Hollywood just concluded one of it's biggest money-earning years ever.

Yes...you hear about blockbusters like Avatar (a ho-hum film with great graphics) but overall the industry is extremely healthy right now.

There are many failures every year...it's the nature of the business, but the overall business is extremely strong.

Combine that with Bollywood...and you will see that the appetite for the cinema is even stronger today than in years gone by.

I find your "if you are earning more and not doing nonsense shopping" argument to be specious, at best.

It doesn't matter how much I earn, nonsense shopping always cuts into savings.  There is just as much, if not more, nonsense shopping done in KSA than in other countries.

KSA isn't my first country to live in...it's my 9th.  I have seen more than just what is happening here.

sweetchoice you are being really pessimistic and the worst part u r not even realizing it and the topic has entirely change.:oWe cant have problem with every thing in our life.

I dont live in compound nor my hubby is earning lavishly and dont even have huge LCD to watch movies.....and worst among all we havnt saved even a penny in these three years...

if u save money u will be financially stronger and that keeps u mentally stronger to at one stage of life

i dun think so,u can do it later on,first enjoy being here
So what!!!We can still enjoy our life in staying our means.

i would love to talk u after year or two and ask u if your mind has changed or not:)

Guys, this discussion is quite long and I couldn't read it all as I have to leave for a meeting, but please, please, keep it nice and respectful for everybody (and report me any problem)

nonz-- Let me ask people here that am i pessimist, i am optimistic, since I am working for service orinted industry. I meet many people ( ofcourse than u ) with different culture. So i have lot of feedback from people.

may be I am not good when it comes entrainment news like cinema/Tv programs  which i don't spend much time on that

If you are not saving money means -- it is not mean that all people in saudi ( especailly expats )not saving money -- u are not represeting saudi -- so from ur talk u can guess ---am i pessimist.

I am wondering If you cann't save money in saudi it self then where u can do? as misterstrech said earlier only nonsense shopping makes worry here apart from that we don;t have any other reason to spend much money here

I never wish to hurt others. it is all my views -- people can say their views -- but don't say specific view

Julien wrote:

Guys, this discussion is quite long and I couldn't read it all as I have to leave for a meeting, but please, please, keep it nice and respectful for everybody (and report me any problem)

Where is the conversation becoming disrespectful?

MisterStretch wrote:

Where is the conversation becoming disrespectful?

No worries it's fine. I'll just keep an eye on the conversation

Change is always good as long as it brings in value for the people, both locals and expats.

It is not really necessary to imitate other lands and their cultures and ways of ;life but no doubt some value can be gained from their many experiences ovcer time, positive and negative.

Its not easy to simply lift a ban on an existing rule and hope that everything will be tickety boo. There will be teething passions and pains through the process and only time will tell how succesful and value adding the changes will bring.

No one can predict the outcome, especially in a region that is stronlgy attached to its tradition, culture, and religion. We are not Prophets, yet.

MUSICMAN!  It's so good to have you back!

Music I agree with u -- it is not simply easy to lift a ban on existing

But there are signs or recent develpements tells something

Since I am in DAMMAM, I am feeling that some areas in Khobar there is no much restriction as in other area

ARAMCO campus everthing avaialble , movie ,church .

there is big mall is in construction just before Bahrain Toll, which will have minimum of 5-10 theaters inside.

changes will not come suddenly but u can feel some changes slowly

I heard many people says that outer Riyadh there is a place where men and women can meet easily especially women with out Abaya-- where is MUTWA there---

Julien -- can u tell ---- how the member staus changes -- new member, active memeber , serial expat, contributor etc

is it automatic or based on their contribution.

since u said this blog is controlled by u means -- how do u bare the expenses -- do u have any income by displaying some promo ads-- any other source of income-- u can PM me me if don't wanna disclose everything over here

but I'll reply (then I'll stop)

status is determined by your number of posts on the forum (appart for the Animators)

I bared the expenses with my personal funds for years (the project started in2005) . In 2008, I decided to dedicate my professional activity to help expatriates and people everywhere in the world with the Expat.com project. I constantly have to look for sponsors (insurers, banks, movers) and believe me, it's not an easy game.

sweetchoice,

yes, we lived in AlKhobar for 6 long years from 1979 to 1985 and that was the best of the 30 weve spent in KSA.

the place out of Riyadh is called Safari Resort and we visited there 2 weeks back. Its outa this world. The Manager in charge is a close friend of ours.

here are some pics from Safari Resort
http://www.facebook.com/#/photo_search. … 1&view=all

My eyeballs are hurting from this long read ...


I don't intend on throwing a spark into the gas again, but you can bet on one thing. years from today, you never know how many, people will be reading about all these "used to be" days and say: was it really like that back then?

sands of time always have there way of moving on.

(I think I'm close to graduate from musicman's Uni)

Salman

Julien wrote:

but I'll reply (then I'll stop)

status is determined by your number of posts on the forum (appart for the Animators)

I bared the expenses with my personal funds for years (the project started in2005) . In 2008, I decided to dedicate my professional activity to help expatriates and people everywhere in the world with the Expat.com project. I constantly have to look for sponsors (insurers, banks, movers) and believe me, it's not an easy game.

Great Effort -- I wish to be contribute in any form.

We have started this kind of portal in early 2001. But some how we cann't proceed.

There are plenty of Jobs are available in ME especially in Saudi or Qatar but it is not reaching right people. let me work out some ideas

any more thoughts about this subject guys -- I will delete this forum if it is not interesting to discuss any more

i 'll suggest u to delete it:) it gives some wrong impressions