Cyprus Banks and possible 'domino effect'

anything is possible to pay for excesses of the greedy

MikeInPoulton wrote:

could it be probable that (at sometime in the future) smaller members of the 'club' could be asked to do the same (and I mean Malta by this)?

Mike

possible, yes, probable, no.

1. Cypriot banks were hit hard by Greece default - no comparable event could hit Maltese banks
2. Maltese banks very conservative compared to Cypriot ones
3. 2 of the big 3 banks in Malta are backed by HSBC and the church respectively

Cypriot government have voted against this so no accounst will be raped

Cyprus to leave EU then?

Cypriot MPs playing Russian roulette with 5 bullets in the chamber

georgeingozo wrote:

MikeInPoulton wrote:

could it be probable that (at sometime in the future) smaller members of the 'club' could be asked to do the same (and I mean Malta by this)?

Mike

possible, yes, probable, no.

1. Cypriot banks were hit hard by Greece default - no comparable event could hit Maltese banks
2. Maltese banks very conservative compared to Cypriot ones
3. 2 of the big 3 banks in Malta are backed by HSBC and the church respectively

Thanks George

I understood the 'possibility'....it was the probability I needed clearing up; after all - as has been seen in recent times - even the 'great' are vulnerable and 'political will' can always be manipulated/influenced by the budget holders in Central Europe.  One thing I wasn't aware of was the backing the church gives to the banks in Malta.....it gives me something else to consider when planning the future.

As Ken noted....this "no" vote from the Cypriot government makes for compulsive 'car-crash TV'.  The beginning of the end?

As long as Malta does not need any big funds from the EU they should be fine.

Other than that as George already stated, the Maltese Banks are very conservative and are backed up.

As for me with funds in Cyprus I will now transfer more to Malta, which I should have done before, hopefully the banks will hold up in Cyprus once they are opened again.

Hi Michael,

sorry to hear that you have funds in Cyprus!

Let's see when and how the banks open for transactions. I'm glad I kept my money in Germany although even that is no guarantee anymore.

Do you really think transferring from Cyprus to Malta is the solution? You really think Maltese banks are backed up? By prayers ?

Cheers
Ricky

Well of course I personally will not transfer all my funds to Malta. Just some (staying under the limit i have for sure), the rest I will probably sent to Swiss/Liechtenstein and maybe some to Germany.

One has to diversify, if possible.

Nevertheless there no real "safe haven" at the moment I think, so you should go with the little evil and diversify as much as one can.

MikeInPoulton wrote:

[  One thing I wasn't aware of was the backing the church gives to the banks in Malta....

Not the banks but one, APS, which they own

One big difference between Malta and Cyprus is that around 30% (as far as I read) of the deposits in Cyprus are owned by non-Europeans, specifically Russian oligarchs supposed to have been laundering money. So it seems that the EU did not want to support that people and they even wanted them to pay the rescue. It is much unlikely that we can see this in Malta (although never say never) since most of the foreign deposits are from EU nationals (who vote in countries with big influence inside the EU).

georgeingozo wrote:

MikeInPoulton wrote:

[  One thing I wasn't aware of was the backing the church gives to the banks in Malta....

Not the banks but one, APS, which they own

....indeed George, but I am reminded of Citigroup in New York (losses of over $300 trillion), IndyMac ($13.9 trillion) the Anglo Irish Bank....and who can forget the Icelandic fiasco.

The good Lord may work in mysterious ways, however, I don't think that a bank owned by the Church in Malta would be protected from the pressures of world markets.....and more importantly the vagaries of the politics/pressures, seen more often these days, from the plutocrats of the EU.

I predict a domino effect within a year.........I just hope that Malta is prepared (indeed the UK also).

Mike

Personally I don't want to bank with HSBC but I am using it as a means to an end. I also do not intend to put all my eggs into one basket and will keep funds in the UK, in capital and property.
But I disagree about a 'domino' effect in Malta.

See this:

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … ort.448679

Also I found an interesting explanatory article in The Guardian, worth a read? Written before the vote.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree … roika-plan

Found this for analysis

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/eu/ … lta_en.htm

Remember the days when we were paid in cash and then had the choice as to where we placed our cash?
Then along came a the government that told us that the banks were the best place to put our cash and that it was safe and we got interest as they held onto and invested our cash.
Then they made it almost impossible to be paid our wages in cash and said that the banks were safe and the money was ours and we could get it at any time.
Now we have banks and government that can freeze your accounts for as long as they like and remove your money that you have saved (and probably already paid tax on) remove 10% and they don't even pay a decent return on the investment!

I for one am looking at taking out my money and keeping it safe away from banks and government!

Disgusted, Mallieha

( Terry )

redmik wrote:

I also do not intend to put all my eggs into one basket and will keep funds in the UK, in capital and property.

so a sterling basket :-) That is fine if you live in the UK, but if you live in Malta you should consider having some of your assets in Euros so as to have some safeguard against a collapse in £. Maybe 1 years expenditure ?

I am going to do both as I have previously posted and split my tax liabilities. Sorry I missed out the words 'some of' before 'my funds'

I live in Cyprus, and it's very worrying at the moment.  The banks haven't been open since last Friday, and at the earliest will be open tomorrow - - - - - - maybe.  Some people say it may get to next Tuesday (Monday being a public holiday).  My state pension was transferred on the 14th, so is somewhere in the ether as no transactions have taken place since the 15th and it wouldn't have arrived then. . . . .  .
Let's be clear, it wasn't the Cypriot government who imposed a raid on bank accounts, it was a condition of the bail out loan.  This has made the news world wide - I have had a message from a friend in Canada saying he's seen it on the television, and asking if I'm OK and saying if I need money to let him know and he'll wire it to me.
So we are just waiting now, for the next stage, what will happen?  Who knows!

jeanniebx wrote:

I live in Cyprus, and it's very worrying at the moment.  The banks haven't been open since last Friday, and at the earliest will be open tomorrow - - - - - - maybe.  Some people say it may get to next Tuesday (Monday being a public holiday).  My state pension was transferred on the 14th, so is somewhere in the ether as no transactions have taken place since the 15th and it wouldn't have arrived then. . . . .  .
Let's be clear, it wasn't the Cypriot government who imposed a raid on bank accounts, it was a condition of the bail out loan.  This has made the news world wide - I have had a message from a friend in Canada saying he's seen it on the television, and asking if I'm OK and saying if I need money to let him know and he'll wire it to me.
So we are just waiting now, for the next stage, what will happen?  Who knows!

It does not matter who tried to impose this ,the fact is that by even suggesting it the run on banks is now inevitable, its just a matter of how many people try to withdraw what is after all their money. Confidence in the banking system was already at an all time low, this proposal can only speed up the Euro break up.

Terry

tearnet wrote:

jeanniebx wrote:

I live in Cyprus, and it's very worrying at the moment.  The banks haven't been open since last Friday, and at the earliest will be open tomorrow - - - - - - maybe.  Some people say it may get to next Tuesday (Monday being a public holiday).  My state pension was transferred on the 14th, so is somewhere in the ether as no transactions have taken place since the 15th and it wouldn't have arrived then. . . . .  .
Let's be clear, it wasn't the Cypriot government who imposed a raid on bank accounts, it was a condition of the bail out loan.  This has made the news world wide - I have had a message from a friend in Canada saying he's seen it on the television, and asking if I'm OK and saying if I need money to let him know and he'll wire it to me.
So we are just waiting now, for the next stage, what will happen?  Who knows!

It does not matter who tried to impose this ,the fact is that by even suggesting it the run on banks is now inevitable, its just a matter of how many people try to withdraw what is after all their money. Confidence in the banking system was already at an all time low, this proposal can only speed up the Euro break up.

Terry

Et Voila.......succinctly put Terry.

Sorry Mick......when I said I predict a 'domino effect' I didn't mean just Malta - I meant within the EU and in particular those already 'on the brink'.  What I can't get my head round is - if (when) it happens will it be a good or bad thing.

Like I said earlier....."carcrash TV"

Mike

The problem is that as a single trading nation the EU is a great idea, hence the "common market". Trying to expand to a "one size fits all" Nation state by "importing" countries with so many different cultures, lifestyles, political agenda's will never work.
In my opinion monitarily the north / south divide in Europe is a gap too far to close!

Terry

This could be akin to a forest fire. Devastating but from it comes new and healthier growth. From chaos comes order :-)

redmik wrote:

From chaos comes order :-)

didn't have you down as a mason

georgeingozo wrote:

redmik wrote:

From chaos comes order :-)

didn't have you down as a mason

I'm not but I have driven on Malta :-)
Mind you Portugal was worse.

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … -eu.462160

Malta has the safest roads in the EU, according to EU data.
Malta cut its road fatalities by nearly half in just a year. It also had the lowest rate of fatalities in the EU in 2012, reporting 26 deaths per million inhabitants, according to the annual road safety statistics – which detail the number of fatal road accidents across the 27 EU member states.
The average in the EU stood at 55 deaths per million inhabitants, a decrease of nine per cent over 2011.
Malta has held the enviable record in this area particularly because it has no highways and due to its small road network, where speed is under ‘natural’ control.
However, the 2012 statistics show that Malta cut its road fatalities by nearly half in a year.

Cyprus is closer to Malta than you might think !

For example 48 % of the Lombard Bank Malta belong to the Laiki Marfin Bank of Cyprus.

Cheers
Ricky

which in turn is 84% state owned

ricky wrote:

Cyprus is closer to Malta than you might think !

For example 48 % of the Lombard Bank Malta belong to the Laiki Marfin Bank of Cyprus.

Cheers
Ricky

But that does not mean that the EU would request the same conditions than those requested to Cyprus. Helping the Maltese banks would not have the political cost for many EU leaders (such as Merkel) that helping Cyprus banks might have, because of the origin of 30% of those deposits.

Hi Lusco,

maybe , maybe not. Are you really sure about where the holdings of Maltese banks originate?

Apart from that there are many similarities in the country business models between Cyprus and Malta like off-shore banking, low tax rates, dependence on tourism and building. And, in the case of Malta, online gambling.

All things that are a pain-in-the neck for those EU countries loosing income because of these issues.

So I wouldn't count on too much sympathy from payee countries if the worst case scenario for Malta were to become reality.

And in the coming Euro zone split Malta will certainly be in the Med group.

Cheers
Ricky

Now it seems to seems to be coming to the decision.

Laiki bank ( part owner of Lombard bank) will be cut back and turned into a bad bank.

Anybody with assets in a Cypriot bank account has a big problem !

Now Malta wants to take over this money! Could be cause for future worries for account holders in Malta. The rules have changed - your money can be gone overnight if you make the wrong decision.

Make the right decisions ..............

Cheers
Ricky

ricky wrote:

Laiki bank ( part owner of Lombard bank) will be cut back and turned into a bad bank.

is that a fact or opinion, as I can't find anything to confirm

Hi George,

it's not my opinion ....

http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/int … 74756.html

Sorry it is in German but I'm sure the news will be up in English soon.

The split will be in good and bad.

Apart from that all accounts over 100.000 .€ will be talking a cut.

Cheers
Ricky

This is making me think twice here, not with haste or through any sense of panic but thinking maybe I should keep all assets in UK and just use online banking to transfer to my € Eurocard.
Certainly not transfer as much as I was to HSBC Malta.

Well the banks are still all closed here in Cyprus, and will only open, possibly, maybe on Tuesday. . . . . we shall see!  Yes, Laiki is being split, but how I'm not quite sure.  We're still waiting for the next plan (think we may be on about plan G now) from the Government as to how to sort this mess out.  Fortunately I only have my state pension paid here, but am now going to change this and have it paid into my Nationwide account and just draw what I need each month.
I am trying to sell my property here (anybody want to buy an apartment?) so that I can move on from Cyprus and start the next stage of my life adventure, which was hopefully going to be Malta, but at the moment I just cannot think that far ahead.  I am coming to Malta on the 2nd April, just for 5 days - this was all booked before the crisis happened, so I am carrying on with my plans and looking forward to seeing your beautiful island.

Jean

About the only thing they have not yet suggested is selling the other half of the island to Turkey. This would end the dispute about who owns Cyprus and allow Turkey to join the EU!


Simples!

Terry

Wow, Just heard on the BBC news that Cyprus now considering a 25% steal of bank deposits said the "finance minister".
No mention of any "above" amounts, so may be across the board.

Terry

tearnet wrote:

Wow, Just heard on the BBC news that Cyprus now considering a 25% steal of bank deposits said the "finance minister".
No mention of any "above" amounts, so may be across the board.

Terry

I heard over 100,000€

There is no need to take 25% of all deposits, in fact 15-16% of only those over 100,000 would be sufficient

georgeingozo wrote:

ricky wrote:

Laiki bank ( part owner of Lombard bank) will be cut back and turned into a bad bank.

is that a fact or opinion, as I can't find anything to confirm

looks like not turned into a bad bank, but split into 2, good and bad. I think more likely is a new company set up (as happened in Ireland) and the bad assets from all the banks put into it. Shareholders and bond holders should be wiped out (or nearly so), again as per Ireland

according to the BBC

"Mr Sarris was also quoted as saying Cyprus was considering a 25% levy on deposits of more than 100,000 euros (£85,000) in its biggest bank."

so possibly different levies depending on the bank