Cyprus Banks and possible 'domino effect'

Hi George,

sorry , I meant good and bad bank !

The consequence seems to be that all account holders of the Laiki bank with more than 100.000 € will have to wait to see how much of their cash is left. The guarantee for amounts under 100.000 € is there. So it could be a substantial loss for larger amounts.

It also sounds as if there will be a tax of 25 % imposed on savings with the Bank of Cyprus.

These amounts will have to sum up to the figure that Cyprus needs to show to get the 10 Bill. bailout from the EU.

The solidarity fund solution has already been turned down by all parties in Germany. It is not right to take the pension funds of normal Cypriot citizens to reduce the taxation of rich foreigners profiting from lash banking regulations and high interest rates in the past years.

Heh, doesn't that sound a bit like Malta ?

Cheers
Ricky

georgeingozo wrote:

There is no need to take 25% of all deposits, in fact 15-16% of only those over 100,000 would be sufficient

...........well that seems alright then George.

Talking bout a revolution?

Maybe the talk of 25% is to make 15% more palatable.  On the other hand, if 15% is enough for all Russians to withdraw everything, why not go for 25%

its disgracefull to take people hard earned savings to pay for the excesses and big mistakes of the banks and their high paid management teams.... in other words your cash isnt safe at all - EU or depositors schemes or not. time to pull out ya cash and put it under the bed....

Agreed in principle. I am getting info from friends in Cyprus that there are many there who are angry with those Cypriots who have failed to pay taxes and exploited their fellow Cypriots to make the money that is to be taxed. So, I guess, things are not so clear cut as they may appear to be.

One wrote:

'my husband has had a business for 30 years (a small business) he supplies materials that once installed can never be taken back i.e ceramics, baths, toilets etc. We have had to live all these years with bouncing cheques, no law to prosecute them etc. Most of our competitors are civil servants that opened up the same type of business in their wives names (result: double salary). This also applies to government teachers who slack in the classroom and then offer private lessons to the poor kids who can't keep up with the curriculum (so many public holidays may be the reason for this)and this helps them subsidise their already inflated income. Go figure and wake up Cyprus! We as workers and parents have been voicing these concerns for over 20 years!'

Another
'One also has to ask the question 'how many of the business owners actually pay their taxes' - not many that I know. Certainly restaurant owners, taxi drivers and most cash businesses fiddle their books in order not to pay tax. That doesn't help the economy either. I love Cyprus but greed has brought this chaos to the island.

A lot of ire is being directed against Germany where money laundering is a reported serious issue or rather the lack of action against it.

sounds very much like malta to me

03.02 Uk Time.
Eurozone finance ministers have agreed a deal on a 10bn-euro bailout for Cyprus to prevent its banking system collapsing and keep the country in the eurozone.

Laiki (Popular) Bank - the country's second-biggest - will be wound down and holders of deposits of more than 100,000 euros will face big losses.

However, all deposits under 100,000 euros will be "fully guaranteed".

The European Central Bank had set a deadline of Monday for a deal.

Laiki will be split into "good" and "bad" banks, with its good assets eventually merged into Bank of Cyprus.

redmik wrote:

03.02 Uk Time.
Eurozone finance ministers have agreed a deal on a 10bn-euro bailout for Cyprus to prevent its banking system collapsing and keep the country in the eurozone.

Laiki (Popular) Bank - the country's second-biggest - will be wound down and holders of deposits of more than 100,000 euros will face big losses.

However, all deposits under 100,000 euros will be "fully guaranteed".

The European Central Bank had set a deadline of Monday for a deal.

Laiki will be split into "good" and "bad" banks, with its good assets eventually merged into Bank of Cyprus.

I see that they are saying 40% for deposits over €100,000 in Laiki bank and less % in other banks. Does this mean that someone with € 98,000 pays nothing but if you have €101,000 you pay 40%? seems harsh.
I like the bit about "under €100,000 fully guaranteed" as they have already said that they will stop any large transfers to stop a run on the banks, it may be safe but you won't be able to use it!

Terry

.......and here we are again.  Cute that the Germans seem to have pushed through this latest 'deal' - that's rich coming from a country with the largest money laundering problem in Europe (indeed possibly globally). Anyway another example of the Illuninati sponsored banking system saving itself (again) at the expense of the poor customer.

Mike

.....and thanks to "6237farag"  for this interesting link in the football thread; coupled with the comments from 'seasoned expats' about landlords and their (ahem) business morals, I fear that unless some Maltese clean up their attitude to paying their dues then the clock is ticking to a Cypriot type implosion.

As Terry said.......clear under your beds (It's not over yet)

Mike

Hi Mike,

as someone who has lived many years in Germany,has worked many years in Germany, has had to pay taxes in Germany most of his life and, luckily, with most of my Euro's in a German bank, can you please explain who you come to the conclusion that Germany has the biggest money laundering problem in Europe and possibly globally?

Or is it just the usual German bashing and kill the messenger?

Cheers
Ricky

ricky wrote:

Hi Mike,

as someone who has lived many years in Germany,has worked many years in Germany, has had to pay taxes in Germany most of his life and, luckily, with most of my Euro's in a German bank, can you please explain who you come to the conclusion that Germany has the biggest money laundering problem in Europe and possibly globally?

Or is it just the usual German bashing and kill the messenger?

Cheers
Ricky

See this link http://www.dw.de/germany-a-safe-haven-f … a-16343313

Even the EU  are concerned that Germany is turning a blind eye to the problem.

Terry

Hi all,

on the main issue !

The Eurogroup boss Dijsselbloem ( which translates to thistle) said today that Luxembourg,Malta ands Slovenia can choose who will be next!

He is not German but Dutch.

And when the CEO of Lombard bank Said says the money is safe you can presume it is not !

Cheers
Ricky

ricky wrote:

Hi Mike,

as someone who has lived many years in Germany,has worked many years in Germany, has had to pay taxes in Germany most of his life and, luckily, with most of my Euro's in a German bank, can you please explain who you come to the conclusion that Germany has the biggest money laundering problem in Europe and possibly globally?

Or is it just the usual German bashing and kill the messenger?

Cheers
Ricky

Hi Ricky

as someone who has lived many years in the UK, has worked many years in many different countries (28 years in the Royal Air Force), paid my taxes and for the last 10 years has been charged with educating the 'underclass' of this once proud country (if I'm not told to 'F' off at least twice a day by the 'children' I feel incomplete) I think that I've 'been around a bit'.  However, notwithstanding the poor parenting, scrounging, rage ridden, often lazy populous I live within I'm not that 'touchy' when someone has proper criticism about who we are or what we have become......I am, after all, a realist.

To paraphrase Nick Ferrari (Sunday Express) - Angela Merkel is left seething in Berlin and orders the Cypriot Government to deal only with "the Troika", as the EC, ECF and IMF like to be known.

I'm not alone with these views and would never consider myself as a 'German basher', however, the truth hurts and in the coming years we will all see the fallout from the arrogant European leaders.

My apologies if you took my comments personally.

Finally.......thank you Terry for the link (you beat me to it chap).

Cheers

Mike

Well fingers crossed my bank will be open tomorrow - first time for 12 days - and hopefully my pension will find its way into my account tomorrow, only a week late . . . . .

Hi Mike,

don't understand me wrong !

I'm not German, I'm British but I'm well aware of what is going on in both countries and Europe.

The article quoted about money laundering in Germany is rather old stuff and refers to criminal acts on a smaller scale like giving your own bank account to receive money against a percentage gain for yourself !

Anybody and any country living over their means will sooner or later be shown the bill that is to be paid!

I personally would not like to be asked to pay the bills of others  who have been having been living over their means.

The Eurozone was not intended to be a 'free-for-all' , in fact it was one basic requirement that evey country was responsible for it's own debts. That seems to have been replaced by the attitude that 'spend today' what someone else will pay for tomorrow.

The UK never joined the Eurozone  so the exchange rates can go up and down against other countries ..... at the moment more down than up , but that can change too.

I don't see any reason to blame countries with strong fiscal policies for the shortfalls of countries that lack financial responsibility.

I love an open discussion on these issues and certainly don't take it personally. I can't vote in Germany anyway as Brit and actually hate Angela ! If anybody I would support the 'Greens' in Germany.

Cheers
Ricky

Sorry Mike but I have to say that using the Sunday Express as a source of evidence is not in my opinion a good move.
However, I would also say that 'where's there's smoke' (and I don't mean the Vatican)there is usually some source of fire.
Had to laugh at your '(if I'm not told to 'F' off at least twice a day by the 'children' I feel incomplete)' because as an ex Legal 'Social Worker' that was common parlance directed to me, usually by parents.

Banks will not now be open until Thursday!!!  That will be two weeks they've been closed

hmm is money safe? - i dont think so. your hard earned savings taxed at 30-40% for having the self imposed austrity measures of your own over many years of hard working life to secure your own safe secure retirement and then this happens.....and only allowed to draw 100-140 euros if you can find an atm thats working...capital controls in place to avoid a bank run...says it all. and the EU sanction the theft of your own savings to pull out the banks.

INTERESTING QUOTE "The central bank now says all will remain closed to ensure the whole banking system functions "smoothly"

so how do they intend to operate when closed.....smoothly???

MikeInPoulton wrote:

Anyway another example of the Illuninati sponsored banking system

Mike

Sorry Mike, you lost me there....

redmik wrote:

Sorry Mike but I have to say that using the Sunday Express as a source of evidence is not in my opinion a good move.

indeed Mick.....actually I take the Sunday Telegraph (a throwback from my 'previous' life I suppose), much, much better sports coverage than any 'raggy redtop' or competing broadsheet.....it's Rose who prefers the 'easy' read.

I feel your pain having had to work as a legal Social Worker - I too get it from the parents with the many TAF meetings and the recent Working Together With Families initiative - if these families and their 'offspring' are our future heaven help us.

Hi Ricky

at least we share some common ground on the subject, however,

ricky wrote:

The UK never joined the Eurozone  so the exchange rates can go up and down against other countries ..... at the moment more down than up , but that can change too.

.......and thus allows us to operate independently of those around us, controlling our own financial business and setting our own agenda. 

ricky wrote:

I don't see any reason to blame countries with strong fiscal policies for the shortfalls of countries that lack financial responsibility.

.......but we must blame them.  It was these very countries (with strong fiscal policies) that have actively encouraged those 'smaller' ones to join with promises of 'pots of gold' in subsidies and a better long term stability. Politically driven, at all levels, the big 'players' in Central Europe knew exactly what they were doing - the smaller economies could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them and, in my opinion, it was an inevitability that certain economies and banking systems would fail thus leaving leaving them at the mercy of the stronger ones - as we now see with Cyprus (and to an extent Greece, Ireland et al).

I notice, also, that as soon as Russia came sniffing around with offers of billions to help ease the burden in exchange for access to the huge field of 'natural resources' not far from Cypriot shores the great 'German Machine' stepped in to change the parameters of the offer.

It's the long game, and Europe are acting in the same manner as the USA did in the Oil Iraq war (the UK are just as guilty) but this is another matter for discussion in the future. Controlling the 'smaller economies' effectively links them all together to make one larger, much stronger, unit....by example the UK has an exposure of some £1.2 Billion in the Cypriot financial sector alone.

However, back on point, after all of these shenanigans do we feel safe in Malta now (similar economy) or will we see a 'Med Domino Effect' leading to a separation of economic interests in the future. 

Jeanniebx must be beside herself......and who exactly is caring about this apart from us few on a message board - and she is not alone. Toon has it right........it's Theft and not a black mask among them.

Cheers

Mike

Seat 0A wrote:

MikeInPoulton wrote:

Anyway another example of the Illuninati sponsored banking system

Mike

Sorry Mike, you lost me there....

.......don't worry Seat OA.  It's only important to those who know.

Cheers

Mike

and no white horse or in the good old days of dick turpin - at least he had the decency to issue a warning of "stand and deliver"

Ah, those Russians. Looking for more money laundering opportunities eh?

tried the money laundering once - nobody wanted wet notes.....

toonarmy9752 wrote:

tried the money laundering once - nobody wanted wet notes.....

MikeInPoulton wrote:

ricky wrote:

I don't see any reason to blame countries with strong fiscal policies for the shortfalls of countries that lack financial responsibility.

.......but we must blame them.  It was these very countries (with strong fiscal policies) that have actively encouraged those 'smaller' ones to join with promises of 'pots of gold' in subsidies and a better long term stability. Politically driven, at all levels, the big 'players' in Central Europe knew exactly what they were doing - the smaller economies could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them and, in my opinion, it was an inevitability that certain economies and banking systems would fail thus leaving leaving them at the mercy of the stronger ones - as we now see with Cyprus (and to an extent Greece, Ireland et al).

I think Finland with a GDP smaller than the one of Greece and just a little bigger than the one of Ireland breaks your theory.

Lusco wrote:

MikeInPoulton wrote:

ricky wrote:

I don't see any reason to blame countries with strong fiscal policies for the shortfalls of countries that lack financial responsibility.

.......but we must blame them.  It was these very countries (with strong fiscal policies) that have actively encouraged those 'smaller' ones to join with promises of 'pots of gold' in subsidies and a better long term stability. Politically driven, at all levels, the big 'players' in Central Europe knew exactly what they were doing - the smaller economies could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them and, in my opinion, it was an inevitability that certain economies and banking systems would fail thus leaving leaving them at the mercy of the stronger ones - as we now see with Cyprus (and to an extent Greece, Ireland et al).

I think Finland with a GDP smaller than the one of Greece and just a little bigger than the one of Ireland breaks your theory.

Nah!

I was clear to mention those countries with "strong fiscal policies" and I opined that "certain economies and banking systems would fail" in my narrative.

You use Finland as a theory breaker (it isn't my theory just my observations and opinions), however,

See here.......

I particularly like the bit about rapid economic development and that it is quoted as "one of the worlds wealthiest nations" - of course this is subject to economic verification.........Finland, I believe, has a higher GDP per capita than even Germany.

My "opinion", Sir, is sound.

Cheers

Mike

The wife of a reputable business man in Cyprus, ex-owner of a famous supermarket chain in the country, was caught at the Airport in Cyprus trying to leave for another country with 4 million euros in her suitcase.
The supermarket-chain closed recently and left 1500 workers unemployed.
As it was supported at the proclamation of the President Nicos Anastasiades last night everyone guilty will be punished by the law.

From: http://ruincy.com/wife-reputable-superm … t-airport/

no doubt he will get off lighlty - as with that sort of cash avaiable to him no doubt a few palms will be "greeced"

Yep, so true.....

but I feel it's still 'Acropolis Now for the Cypriot economy'

MikeInPoulton wrote:

Yep, so true.....

but I feel it's still 'Acropolis Now for the Cypriot economy'

MikeInPoulton wrote:

Nah!

I was clear to mention those countries with "strong fiscal policies" and I opined that "certain economies and banking systems would fail" in my narrative.

Finland is one of the countries in the world with the strongest fiscal policy and apart from that you also said "the smaller economies could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them".

MikeInPoulton wrote:

You use Finland as a theory breaker (it isn't my theory just my observations and opinions), however,

See here.......

I do not think I will need that since I already checked that wiki some time ago many times plus I lived in Finland.

MikeInPoulton wrote:

I particularly like the bit about rapid economic development and that it is quoted as "one of the worlds wealthiest nations" - of course this is subject to economic verification.........Finland, I believe, has a higher GDP per capita than even Germany.

That's the point. You were talking about the size of the economies and even you said '"small' countries" so that's why I used the GDP, since that is the most common way to measure the size of a economy. Now you are talking about GDP per capita and wealthiest economies, which you did not say in the previous post. Indeed you have also mentioned Ireland which indeed has a higher GDP per capita than Germany, but it is obviously a smaller economy. So, yes, I think Finland breaks the theory that "the smaller economies could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them". If you meant "the unhealthiest economies -including big economies such as Spain or Italy- could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them" I would probably not discuss it.

Well today I rang DWP in Newcastle to be told they had recalled all pension payments for Cypriot pensioners.  Now, one of the security questions they asked was for my phone number in Cyprus - - - - - so they have this, but never thought to ring me and let me know what they had done, and I was still waiting for it to go in when the banks re-opened!!!  I have now arranged for it to be paid into my UK account until I change the arrangement.  It's the people with no UK account who will now have a problem - they are not allowed to open a new UK account (although Barclays have now said they can open an offshore account, which will take time to set up), or they can have it paid into a "trusted other person"s account.  Hmm, fine, but how do they withdraw it?  It's not easy, is it? It's a good job the sun is shining today

Lusco....I think you are reading out of context my friend

Lusco wrote:

That's the point. You were talking about the size of the economies and even you said '"small' countries" so that's why I used the GDP, since that is the most common way to measure the size of a economy. Now you are talking about GDP per capita and wealthiest economies, which you did not say in the previous post. Indeed you have also mentioned Ireland which indeed has a higher GDP per capita than Germany, but it is obviously a smaller economy. So, yes, I think Finland breaks the theory that "the smaller economies could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them". If you meant "the unhealthiest economies -including big economies such as Spain or Italy- could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them" I would probably not discuss it.

I didn't mean "the unhealthiest economies" or I would have said it.  I stand my my 'opinion' from previous posts and refer back to my point about 'those countries with strong fiscal policies' that appear to be determining the economic future of those recently joined and possibly do not have the mechanisms to keep up because of their inherent, internal 'poor housekeeping'. 

Redmiks' link above to the mental state/greed of those in this Cypriot crisis (for that is what it is) belies how their country was run before joining the euro and the failure of their government to arrest this.  May I cite a 'Jimmy Saville' anaolgy..........everyone knew what was going on but no-one had the bottle to do anything about it for fear of being implicated in the 'abhorrent crime' themselves..........John 8:7

I fear we will both disagree on this matter......I take (some) of your points, however, I remain with my view.....and I still predict a downfall in the not-to-distant future.

Cheers

Mike

jeanniebx wrote:

It's not easy, is it? It's a good job the sun is shining today

Jeanniebx...............

what a wonderful way of showing your strength in these tough times.  I'm sure your 'stoicism' will see you through and I feel that all here (on the Malta Blog) wish you well.  Just another reason to realize your dream of moving across the wonderful world that is Malta.

All the very best

Mike

MikeInPoulton wrote:

those recently joined and possibly do not have the mechanisms to keep up because of their inherent, internal 'poor housekeeping'.

My comments were made in relation to this: "the smaller economies could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them". So now you say "the recently joined" countries. That is a different story and I would not discuss that one. What I was trying to say was that I see no relation between "the size of the economies" (which was your previous comment) and their ability -or not- to deal with those policies.

Lusco wrote:

MikeInPoulton wrote:

those recently joined and possibly do not have the mechanisms to keep up because of their inherent, internal 'poor housekeeping'.

My comments were made in relation to this: "the smaller economies could never survive the, sometimes extreme, regulations placed upon them". So now you say "the recently joined" countries. That is a different story and I would not discuss that one. What I was trying to say was that I see no relation between "the size of the economies" (which was your previous comment) and their ability -or not- to deal with those policies.

You are fast becoming the 'king of semantics'......however your continuous taking out of context of what is quite obviously my opinion on the subject, to your own effect, doesn't detract from what I said earlier. I can say "the recently joined", and mean also those who cannot compete with the regulations thus imposed (whether that be now or in the future)....it's easy (it's just a language) - how you interpret that is for you and as you say....you cannot discuss that one. 

Thank you also for clarifying "what you were trying to say" - I just disagree.

Cheers and have a nice day

Mike