Las Olas Ecuador development

mugtech wrote:

Yes, the other thread was shut down after BobH suggested it.  You better stay on his good side or this thread could also be history.

LOL!

livinginbahia wrote:

There are between 20 and 30 people renting condos in Bahia, waiting for their houses to be built in Las Olas...I am also concerned that they are now going to be using the same water source as the city of Bahia de Caraquez. The city only gets water 3 days a week now because there is a shortage of water. What are they going to do when Las Olas starts taking enough water for 1000 homes AND a golf course?

Concerning this blog, is it possible to move it to another site or put it on Facebook or something so we don't have to worry about moles shutting it down? I am not at all pleased that the other blog was shut down. Seems like censorship to me.

Living in Bahia makes a valid point about the water and presents other information that some of us would not know about if Las Olas posting had not been re-opened -- like how many people are stuck in condos waiting.

However, please do everyone a favor and refrain from antagonising the Home Office by calling them "moles."

The less name-calling there is, the less likely there will be censorship on Expat.com.

cccmedia in Quito

SHUNNED?? I thought only the Amish were shunned if they left the church? 
No doubt this project is attractive, it was to me!  Being single and an avid traveler looking to retire by the beach in a safe environment.....The entire concept caught my attention!
Now minus a murder it sounds like it's becoming a tale of a "best seller".  I'm fascinated that the people who are part of the "founders club" aren't more demanding!  How is this possible? They are obviously successful, financially smart, and protectors of their retirement.  I can't help but think there is more to this story and frankly I want to continue to know the updates/status!
Not sure I want to live there IF it's completed, knowing people are being shunned! That's not how I would ever choose to live. 
<<shaking head>>

I just came back from Ecuador where I visited the Las Olas project and the city of Bahia de Caraquez.

I tried to take interesting pictures of Las Olas and surroundings. Please have a look here:

https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0 … cslist_api

My flight arrived in Guayaquil and Las Olas sent someone to pick me up in a very nice van.  Julio is originally from USA and he manages the maintenance of construction vehicles at Las Olas.  He told me the sand was very hard on equipment.  Once on site, I realized how powdery the sand is and with the mix of salt from the ocean, I imagine that keeping equipment working 10 hours a day is a real challenge.  On Monday, a big scraper had a flat tire and I saw the guys putting the huge tire at the back of a pick up to have it repaired.

Despite the +4 hour drive from the airport, I enjoyed the conversation and beautiful hilly landscape (lots of mango and passion fruit orchards).  I traveled in India, Vietnam, Peru, etc. and I live in Mauritius, so I know what's a developing country.  I was expecting Ecuador to be less developed.  The road between Bahia and Guayaquil is decent if not brand new 4 lane roads.  It's not a highway as we know it in North America, but I've seen a lot worse.  Bahia de Caraquez is developing, but I don’t think I would be happy living there on a full-time basis.

Ok, enough said about the surroundings, let's talk about Las Olas.

First of all, the valley is impressive and the property is A LOT bigger than what I imagined.  The pictures I took overlooking the valley and the ocean was taken about half way in the property, in the future Los Cielos community, and just passed the future 8th hole.  There will be a lot of green space and the nature reserve forms a huge valley on it's own.

I arrived on a Sunday, so no one was working on the property.  The only things you can hear are the birds and the sound of the waves.  In this silence (and with a small ocean breeze helping) I could hear the ocean from over 1km from the shore.  Knowing that only electric vehicles will be allowed, Las Olas will be a peaceful place to live.

I saw about 10 horses already on the property and the space for the arena was in the process of being cleared.

I came back to the property on Monday and I was able to see a lot of movements on the ground.  I saw the same 15-20 pieces of equipment others reported, which is not a lot for a property of this size and might explain why it's so long to prepare the ground.  The work was concentrated on holes 1 and 3, plus the whole beachfront where while they are preparing the Las Playas and Vista al Mar communities, they are still removing the hill...  I was able to see the different layers of soil they are putting to make sure everything will stay in place for a long time.  They are not just compacting the ground, they are re-doing everything.  Removing sand, bringing rocks and other types of dirt, compacting, grading, adding layers, etc.  I'm not a professional, but when you see the cliffs along that coast, it's obvious that the sandy ground can be problematic (especially if heavy rain) if you are not preparing it the right way.  I also saw a huge water collection pipe they are building to manage the rainwater coming from the valley and make sure it won't destroy roads and infrastructures.

Once every level is properly graded, they will start building retaining walls, underground utilities and roads.  Because of the different levels on the property, they planned three different wastewater treatment stations.  The province of Manabi wants them to use electricity and water from public utilities, but they are also planning to diversify sourcing by having their own well, cisterns and desalination plant, plus some power generators.  I have good faith that reliable water and electricity will be available since this project will be injecting hundreds of millions $ in the local economy, but it might take more time then expected to get.  That's why planning to be autonomous for the first phase is important.

Regarding the golf course, it will truly be a world-class design.  Only time will tell if the course conditions will be kept at high standard, but David is a very good golfer who dreamt of having it's own golf course in Canada, but decided to make his dream a reality in Ecuador.  I had the chance to hit a few balls on holes #1-2-3 along with Norbert (a Founder's club member), David and the golf course architect Kris Savignac.  Nothing is left to improvisation and the position of each tee off, bunker, green, etc. is carefully planned so every golfer can enjoy the course (they even planned a future tee off at over 8,000 yards and the junior/beginner will be able to play the course under 4,000 yards).  Their goal is to make sure every golfer can reach the green using the same club.  I think the golf course will worth a lot of money for owners.  The clubhouse is planned to be on 3 floors and you will clearly see the ocean from it.

The beach is really nice.  Very different then what we have here in Mauritius, but still truly amazing.  I did twice the ride between the property and Bahia (about 10km) and might met a total of 30 people, 80% of them on Sunday.  Really, there’s no one living on that coast.

The nature reserve is huge and they already started to build a trail along the edge of the cliff that starts from the top of the beach and goes towards the back of the property.  I even saw a future picnic spot that once cleared, will give an amazing view of the golf course and the ocean.  The trail is build by one of the Founder’s club member with the help of two Las Olas employees.  Pretty impressive, as this not the kind of things developers do at the beginning of a project.  They usually tend to wait until completion to do these “nice to have”, but here they seem to be committed to preserve nature and make sure the community can enjoy it.
 
I had the opportunity to meet some of the actual buyers who are living in Bahia and also meet other expats who are living in Bahia.  I think everyone agrees that it’s taking more time than expected to build, but at the same time, everyone feels the developers are doing the right things.  Las Olas has a very nice sales office in Bahia, very well located, but I doubt a lot of sales will be done locally.

Over the last two years, I’ve been following most of golf community developments in Central/South America and this one is by far the most promising and affordable.  In my opinion, the only real risk is a financial risk.  If ever David and Randy ran out of money (which I doubt), I will be one of the first to gather a group of investors to buy back the property!  It’s a no brainer.  On the execution side, the team seems to be skilled and qualified, but it will take longer than planned until the golf course and main infrastructures are completed.  Another risk comes from utilities, but again, I can’t see how the city and the province (and even national government) wouldn’t back a project like this one.

I also visited Montecristi (which IMHO is worthless for someone looking for a place to retire and enjoy life).  The interesting thing about Montecristi is the model homes built using Hormi2 system, which Las Olas is planning to use.  Despite really cheap windows and cabinets, the quality and finishing of construction was really good.

Knowing all these risks, my wife are looking to invest.  We are still young (late 30’s) so we can afford mistakes.  Las Olas is not a project that will suit everyone’s needs or taste.  For us, it seems the perfect compromise between great lifestyle, affordability and potential return on investment.  Similar projects, with similar amenities can’t be found under $300k.  Of course, Ecuador is not Mexico, Panama or Costa Rica, but we bet it will eventually get there.

Good report, check back in April to see the residential construction start.
Does anyone expect anything to start on time in Ecuador?

"The province of Manabi wants them to use electricity and water from public utilities"

Why do you think the the province of Manabi wants them to use water and electricity from public utilities? Bahia de Caraquez has a water shortage problem as it is! We only get water 3 days a week and often have to have water delivered by tanqueros. If Las Olas starts taking any of that water there will be an even worse shortage. The current pipeline isn't even big enough to serve Bahia's needs. I am not sure how much water can be taken out of the dam without putting pressure on the water source. Has anyone ever been up there and know how big it is, etc.? If that is an abundant source, Las Olas really needs to build their own pipeline from the dam which is about 25 miles away. Better yet, build a new pipeline for the city of Bahia! I think this is a major issue as it will cost millions to build a new pipeline, but if the people in Bahia learn that Las Olas may be taking some of their precious water there will be war. Maybe Las Olas and the government can go in on a new pipeline which would deliver both the city's and the development's water needs.

livinginbahia wrote:

"The province of Manabi wants them to use electricity and water from public utilities"

I am not sure how much water can be taken out of the dam without putting pressure on the water source. Has anyone ever been up there and know how big it is, etc.? If that is an abundant source, Las Olas really needs to build their own pipeline from the dam which is about 25 miles away.

You should have a read here: http://lasolasecuador.com/water-sources-for-las-olas/

@mugtech

I doubt they will be able to start building before mid-year 2015.  There's no point in building anything if electricity and water (and Internet!) are not available.  A lot of things can happen in 6 months, but at the same time, time flies!

I can't believe that the government asked them to take water out of their insufficient supply to the city of Bahia. The Las Olas website has changed their claims and promises at least a dozen times concerning many factors (i.e., date of initial construction) and i don't believe this one either. I want more facts: who approached them and of what government agency?

livinginbahia wrote:

I can't believe that the government asked them to take water out of their insufficient supply to the city of Bahia. The Las Olas website has changed their claims and promises at least a dozen times concerning many factors (i.e., date of initial construction) and i don't believe this one either. I want more facts: who approached them and of what government agency?

Sounds like good things to know, but be gentle in your approach, BobH is watching you.

yulrun wrote:

In my opinion, the only real risk is a financial risk.

Thank you Yulrun for that report. Found it to be very objective, and unbiased. One of the few on the grounds reports we have gotten. Since you were recently there, and asking questions, please permit me to ask who is funding the projects, or where are the funds coming from? Straight from the website video it is mentioned  "they don't answer to some large corporation, and there are no budget targets, or profit deadlines to meet."

Certainly there must be some sort of budget targets? Someone has to pay for things right? Is it coming out of the developers pockets, or the investors pockets? Do the developers have an unlimited budget, or are they waiting for money from investors to finance the work?

Despite the opinions of some on the other thread, I am not anti Las Olas, and am always looking for a good investment. However, when it comes to my money, and investing, I always try to look at every possible angle, and potential problem/flaw. Sorry if it upsets some people. One of my main concerns is that if the developers are putting up large sums of money, why wouldn't they have put that money into building the proper infrastructure before they started marketing, and selling lots/condos for the project? Am I really being inappropriate to wonder out loud if the major finances for this project is not dependent very largely on the investors/individuals/home buyers themselves?

Clearly there is interest, and think pretty clearly a large amount of people won't put money into some unproven project in a third world country until they see much more progress. Is it fair to ask how much of this projects financing was dependent on people buying offplan (or whatever term you want to use).

Have to add my kudos to yulrun for the report.  Very informative and uplifting.  You say you're considering making an investment, but it would be nice to hear from some of the people with "skin in the game".  Any way you might induce a few of them to jot down some thoughts in this blog? 

You mention eventual governmental backing.  Has there been any discussion of that?  I haven't seen that anywhere.  While local and national entities have many tools in the bag to help nudge projects along, using them usually requires much public discussion and disclosure.  Any references or links you can share on that subject? 

Thanks again, yulrun.  My dream is still alive.

Just a few things that popped out. Sea spray will be very hard on your home. Things do rust, so hopefully they'll use top of the line hardware, faucets, etc. We've even had to use rubber plugs in our USB ports.
Not sure what horses being on property proves. Are there stables there housing them?
Seems like a big seller is the golf course. I'd rather have my home built...I can't put my bed on the 3rd hole. Nor can I cook on the natural trail or picnic spot unless there's a fire pit.
Folks have been promised finished homes in 9-13 months and building hasn't even started.
The city, province and even national government could very well NOT back the project.
Wonder if they are using beach sand, a big no-no, in their construction?
And it's a first for me....only electric vehicles.
I'm not pro or con Las Olas. I'd just hate for anyone to get taken by folks who are better than the best used car salesmen out there. People can put anything they want on the web, in a brochure...doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Very good concerns and questions raised.  I will find time during the weekend to reply to everyone...  Return to real life is a bit hectic!

Ok, so I've tried to answer the questions/concerns raised by @j600rr, @Sleepmaster and @dfcordero and added some information based on my visit + research.

1-    I’ve been in touch with the Las Olas team since over a year and I can really tell you they are very bad sales people when compared to a car salesman or time-sharing sales people!  (Pay you a trip to Montecristi if you want to see a real sales guy in action!)  With the Las Olas Sale Team, at no stage, I felt any kind of pressure to sign.  They know they misjudged the time required to remove the huge sand hill on the coast (and after being on the ground, I must admit it was a crazy idea, but the final result are stunning as the whole valley now has a view of the ocean), but they are committed to quality and won’t accept anything less.

2-    Regarding government, I’m living on the other side of the planet and I don’t speak Spanish, so I rely on the few local sources I’ve been able to discuss with.  During my due diligence, I found these two articles where you can clearly see that the ministry of tourism is aware and is backing this project: http://www.telegrafo.com.ec/economia/ma … stica.html and http://investour.ecuador.travel/en/ecua … projects/.  When discussing with Las Olas, you feel that they haven’t start talking with the government yesterday.  They’ve been quietly working behind the scenes since a long time ago, way before 2013.

3-    The last day I was there, they received the visit of government officials (some locals, plus at least one guy from ministry of environment who came from Guayaquil).  I’ve heard everything went really well.  They were also scheduled to meet government officials, including lunch with the Minister of Tourism and a meeting with the President on Nov 26th for a presentation of the whole project.  I spoke to David yesterday night about our sales agreement, and he confirmed that these meetings did in fact happen and told me that both the President and Minister of Tourism said they are committed to help make this project successful and help in anyway needed.  Is it myth or reality?  I have no way to verify (I checked the President's agenda online, but they are just saying were he was, not what he did or who he met), but I do tend to trust him. 

4-    Financing: This is only from my personal researches… David was a CFO of two publicly-traded companies (one on Toronto-TSX and the other on NYSE).  He brought both company from private to stock exchange and both are still in activity. 

Regarding Randy Russ, he owns many private companies for which we can’t have access to many details (http://www.texasfixtures.com/,http://www.texasfixtures.com/html/walls_of_texas.html, etc.).  The current website haven’t changed since Feb 2008, so before they started Las Olas (https://web.archive.org/web/20080224150 … index.html).  I read some info about him on this thread and it backed what I found on the web.  IMHO, he’s more afraid of the end of the world then the end of the month!  David told me that they both have brought a group of investors who invested in the project.  Looking at their track records, these guys could retire anywhere on Earth without wondering about tomorrow.  If they are willing to risk their own money, I assume that risk is calculated.

5-    Sales process:  For me, they haven’t start selling at all.  What they are currently doing is testing the market, adjusting the offer, etc.  I can’t find any real publicity, any big and costly initiatives (remember it’s a 1750 residence project that will well worth more than $300M).  Once the golf course will be completed, this project will have a line-up of buyers, pricing will be higher and they know it.  Between you and I, their “burn rate” is not amazingly high and I presume that piece of land wasn’t expensive to buy.  You can find similar properties for very cheap throughout the planet.  You can get acres and acres of land in Namibia right on the Atlantic Ocean for nearly nothing, but who wants to buy that?  No one, until someone will come with THE project.  That’s exactly the same story here.

6-    Ecuador a Third world country? I don’t think so!  It’s a developing country, but not a third world country…  The minimum salary in Ecuador is over 3x the average salary of third world countries! According to the World Economic Forum it has been rated in the top 3 for quality of roads in all South America, has the lowest unemployment rate and spends more on higher education than any other Latin American country.

7-    Current owners thoughts: sorry, didn’t have the reflex to ask for any email or contact details… my bad!

8-    Living on the coast: Yes, for sure, sea spray is an issue on any coastal regions, whether it’s in the US, Canada, Australia or Ecuador.  The HOA will need to devote maintenance budget to keep common amenities in top conditions and every owner will have to take care of their property in order to keep it in great conditions.  That said, the temperature wasn't humid at all during my visit, which was surprising for a coastal region.  No bug or mosquito either.

9-    Horses: I saw two very small ones, so I assume they are breeding.  I know a few owners are vested in equestrian endeavours.  I have no interest, so haven’t asked any question.  Feel free to ask me anything about the golf course though!!

10-    I don’t know if any promises were made to Founder’s Club members in terms of delivery date.  But I do know their contract called for completion in three years with an option to extend by an additional two year and they are about one year into those contracts. I spoke with the 4 buyers that have already moved to Bahia and despite the fact that they would prefer be living in their Las Olas homes/condo, they seemed to be happy to see that the promoters are not trying to rush and cheap over quality.  Remember the first owners to move will be living on a construction site for a long time… Not sure that’s really attractive.

So I hope everyone will find this helpful.  My last two posts were quite long to write and since English is my second language, it's even longer.  If anyone is interested in investing in Las Olas, please don't take my words for granted.  Book a flight and head for Bahia!  My intention was to visit Las Olas, so I was happy that they provided accommodation for free and picked me up at the airport.  At the same time, they were prepared to my visit.  It would be interesting to have the feedback of someone who would just knock at the door of their nice sales office in Bahia and see if their experience would be as positive as mine.

Once again a big thanks Yulrun.
One of my biggest questions has been where exactly is the money coming from? Sounds like there is enough money to continue moving forward even if at times the demand isn't there. Still doesn't necessarily equate to the success of this project, but having the proper funding is always an important thing.

Yes, you are right. Probably should have stated developing nation instead of third world country, but anyone that thinks unemployment isn't going to be on the rise, and that many programs, developments, and upgrades of the country aren't going to be on the decline with the price of oil now is kidding themselves.

Yulrun, you go guy!  What a dynamo! Great input.  You probably had the best term papers in school. 

I can see a trip to Bahia in my future and maybe by then they'll be further along with the project.  But even if you're right about the re-pricing of lots after the golf course is in, I am certain I won't be putting any money down until that course is built.  For me, its all about the golf.  Without the course, it would be just another "dime a dozen" seaside development. 

Great to hear there are some deep pocketed investors on board.  That's what it will take to get the course built.  Even without water, power, road, sewer and environmental hurdles, building and maintaining top notch golf courses is a very expensive proposition.  Better that those people are willing to fund this venture than using "new money" from lot purchasers to do it. 

Hope to see you on the links someday in Las Olas, yulrun.  What is your first language, by the way?  You do very well with English.  Obviously, you apply yourself to everything you do. 

Thanks for the links, too.  I'll check those now.

@j600rr: yes, I'm also wondering what would happen if the oil goes down to $50/barrel and stay there for a year... That said, it won't be nice in US and Canada either!  Apart from Middle East, no one can sustain such low price.

@sleepmaster: thanks! Let's say I wasn't bad at school!

Agree that 6-12 months delay might equal a $20k - $50k increase in the price paid.  The real difference is I will get THE lot I'm looking for!

I'm originally from Montreal, so French is my first language.  I'm managing a subsidiary of a U.S. business based from Mauritus and also oversee our office in South Africa, so English is my working language.  That said, business and personal life are two different things.  Thanks for the compliment.

Please keep us posted if you visit Las Olas next year.  The golf course will be amazing, nothing to do with the typical residential estate course we usually play on.  I played golf twice in South America (Lima Coutry Club and Carmelo in Uruguay) so I don't have a lot of course to compare.  Some say the course at Four Seasons Carmelo is one of the best in South America (I've read #2).  Las Olas will, by far, be a better track.

yulrun wrote:

@j600rr: yes, I'm also wondering what would happen if the oil goes down to $50/barrel and stay there for a year... That said, it won't be nice in US and Canada either!  Apart from Middle East, no one can sustain such low price.

Actually most sectors will do just fine in the U.S. with low oil prices. Airline stocks have already started to soar (no pun intended). The drop in gas prices essentially is a tax cut for the consumer (a good thing). Bad news for energy stocks, and  energy sectors, but other sectors will continue to grow, and be very profitable with low crude prices. Plus, it's been estimated that some of the better shale oil companies breakeven point is around $42. So there will be some thinning of the herd, and trimming of the fat in the energy sector, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, and the energy sector has always been a bust and boom sector in the U.S. It's not that big of a deal. Think it's more of a case of oil dependent countries trying to scare everyone into thinking low oil prices will have a devastating effect on the world. In actuality, the only countries that will be in horrible shape are the oil countries that have highly leveraged their budgets based on high oil prices.

Just as if I am in no rush to invest in Las Olas until I see how the growth continues to progress, am also in no rush to invest anything in Ecuador. Want to see what happens with low oil prices, and how Correa handles things when his power, and popularity start to be challenged.

We either gripe that oil is too expensive or not expensive enough!  Really??  Which way is it, folks?  I understand the  implications of high and low prices, but the overall effect of lower prices is positive for most consumers, who are the real engine of the economy.  Anyway, how is the price of oil germane to the discussion about Las Olas?

sleepmaster wrote:

We either gripe that oil is too expensive or not expensive enough!  Really??  Which way is it, folks?  I understand the  implications of high and low prices, but the overall effect of lower prices is positive for most consumers, who are the real engine of the economy.  Anyway, how is the price of oil germane to the discussion about Las Olas?

Yes, you are right sleepmaster. We have gotten a bit off topic, but would also argue that the price of oil has a direct and large impact on Ecuador. If Ecuador starts struggling economically, and politically how many people do you think are going to look elsewhere? Las Olas may have plenty of private funding, but do you think those individuals will continue to spend money in uncertain times? Would you?

Suppose we could argue the above, but I think that if Ecuador starts hurting economically, so will the future of Las Olas.

j600rr wrote:

Suppose we could argue the above, but I think that if Ecuador starts hurting economically, so will the future of Las Olas.

I think any investor should take that into consideration.  At the end of 2008, oil went from $140 to nearly $40/barrel before going back to 60$ in 2009.  When you look at Ecuador's GDP, you see a constant growth even during that period.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ecuador/gdphttp://www.nasdaq.com/markets/crude-oil … eframe=10y

Despite the fact media describe Rafael Correa as an anti-US and narcissist individual, he's a PhD from University of Illinois... He's bio is quite impressive compare to a lot of political leaders in the world.  He's not just another egocentric lawyer.  I tend to agree with Sleepmaster, what's the good price for oil?

I'm under the impression that Correa is going very good things for Ecuador and opening the country's doors to foreigners who want to invest, retire and spend their money locally is quite a powerful and sustainable way to grow the economy.  This is one of the reasons I think Las Olas is leading the pack in terms of retiring destination in Ecuador.  It's not just real estate in a low cost of living country.  It's a championship golf course, it's the coast/ocean/beach, it's the nature reserve, it's all the activities and amenities, etc.  That's what I'm looking for.  Being cheap is just icing on the cake!

You may be very well right Yulrun. Seeing as how I now have a lot of family in Ecuador, and my brother in law eventually has to go back to work for like 2 years think it is I very much want to see Ecuador continue to do well, and prosper. Some feel Ecuador is overleveraged, and others feel it's in a fine position. The next several years should give a better idea of where it stands. It would be unfortunate if Las Olas was never able to get it's feet of the ground so to speak because of other negative influences beyond their control.

yulrun wrote:

They were also scheduled to meet government officials, including lunch with the Minister of Tourism and a meeting with the President on Nov 26th for a presentation of the whole project.  I spoke to David yesterday night about our sales agreement, and he confirmed that these meetings did in fact happen and told me that both the President and Minister of Tourism said they are committed to help make this project successful and help in anyway needed.  Is it myth or reality?  I have no way to verify (I checked the President's agenda online, but they are just saying were he was, not what he did or who he met), but I do tend to trust him.

Good news, that meeting was a real one (not a private one though!).  Las Olas posted an update yesterday on their website:

http://lasolasecuador.com/las-olas-meet … r-economy/

I think it doesn't bring anything new to the project, because some of these proposed investments might not see the day anyway.  At least, it shows that Las Olas do have the right connections and that the government is aware of the infrastructure needs of these big projects.

Weird.  Does anyone received an email/alarm saying that "livinginbahia" posted something about Las Olas?  I can't find it...

yulrun wrote:

Weird.  Does anyone received an email/alarm saying that "livinginbahia" posted something about Las Olas?  I can't find it...

There was a new thread started yesterday afternoon called Las Olas, but it is gone.
It was started by livinginbahia.

mugtech wrote:

yulrun wrote:

Weird.  Does anyone received an email/alarm saying that "livinginbahia" posted something about Las Olas?  I can't find it...

There was a new thread started yesterday afternoon called Las Olas, but it is gone.
It was started by livinginbahia.

The poster, in addition to making a number of remarkable statements about the project and its developers, claimed this thread no longer existed.  I posted a link to it.  Later on, I noticed the poster had deleted his/her comment.  I did the same to mine, although I don't know why.

livinginbahia wrote:

Why are they deleting comments that Las Olas doesn't like?

Well, you just wrote you posted unverified and very damaging information... Don't you think that might be a valid reason to have it removed?  I invite you to read the terms & conditions of this website and I'm sure they can do whatever they want with the content to protect themselves from any liability and they don't need Las Olas to flag it!

People are here to find facts, not rumours.

I posted a month ago that people from Las Olas met with President Correa and the Minister of tourism along with other big foreign investors.  That news was posted on their website.  That's a fact.  If you don't believe it, fine with me.  Give us your arguments and make sure they are backed by something solid, not the rumour in town.

livinginbahia wrote:

Las Olas only attended the meeting, as did many others. I don't see where it says anything about Ecuador investing in Las Olas.

Have I ever mentioned that Ecuador was investing in Las Olas? 

I just said that the government was aware of the infrastructure needs of these big projects, which I think is really important.  I read somewhere else that Correa authorized the building 8 new hydro-electricity projects in the country, which will make Ecuador a net exporter of electricity in a few years (http://dialogo-americas.com/en_GB/artic … ocale=true).  This is all going in the right direction.  If you want to attract foreign investments, if you want to grow the tourism industry, you need to invest in the proper infrastructure.

I think the article is interesting for us prospective buyers (not you livinginbahia), since it gives us the confirmation that the highest instances of the Ecuadorian government are aware that Las Olas exists.  Not only the city of Bahia, the county or the province, the President!  And it doesn't seem the type of meeting you attend by showing up or by buying a ticket!!  You need to get invited.  Being invited doesn't guarantee that all these investment projects will see the day or will be successful, but it does guarantee that your project is credible and followed by the government.

Sorry but having lived in Ecuador for nearly three years and visited Bahia and Las Olas, I strongly recommend that you wait and see what develops.  The concept sounds wonderful, the site is stunning, but ........  with a lack of water in the area, how will all that wonderful grass get watered, how will the golf course survive in the heat and wind?  We mentioned the ocean surges that happen and the guy didn't even know about them let alone made any provision for such a problem.  They are nice people with a vision but if I were you I'd wait until properties were built and established before rushing in waving your dollars!

celticred48 wrote:

how will all that wonderful grass get watered, how will the golf course survive in the heat and wind?  We mentioned the ocean surges that happen and the guy didn't even know about them let alone made any provision for such a problem.

If you read previous comments or visit the Las Olas website or Facebook page, you will find out that the grass they will be using can be watered with salt water.  You will also find out that the main issue about the water in Bahia is caused by the local distribution network (under the streets), not from the source who's supposed to be not only enough for the city (without the leaking), but currently in process of doubling it's production capacity.

Regarding ocean surges, my experience while visiting Las Olas is giving me the opposite answer.  Who have you talked to?  I asked many questions about any kind of possible natural disaster and that's one of the main reason why it's taking them more time to do the grading of the property.  They want to make things right and are aware of tsunami, earthquakes, floods, etc. 

Anyway, if someone buys a house on the coast and expect to be 100% safe, well let's say it's a lack of intelligence.  In 2004, the tsunami in Thailand reached as far as 2km inland according to an article in NewScientist.  I prefer to die from drowning on the coast while playing golf then being hit by a car downtown running between two meetings!

And not just the golf course grass or tsunamis, what happens when a few privileged wealthy expats in a *gated* community in a poor country, find themselves surrounded by a foreign people in foreign country in a declining economy who have a whole lot of nuthin'?

Kinda reminds me of Haiti after the earthquake which devastated the already impoverished country, and the pre-booked cruise ships were decamping their passengers onto Haitian beaches cordoned off by hastily erected 20 ft. high chain link fences in order to keep them safe from the unhomed, cholera infected, and impoverished locals. Great day at the beach, eh? Whole lotta fun going on there.

Fecking ridiculous.

Here's a bet: Las Olas takes a whole lot of first world money and gives the investors a whole lot of nothing in return. For ccmedia, I'm putting $5 on it.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, someone at Las Olas must know something about storm surges based on both the design and precautions that they appear to have taken. I talked to Randy Russ who is the founding partner with all the construction experience and he outlined their precautions to me over a year ago. First, they have a high tide beach that they further expanded by over 90 meters in width on their own property as opposed to putting houses closer to the water like many developers would tend to do. Next, they located the houses on the higher side of the valley so if there was a storm surge or heaven forbid a tsunami the water would seek the lower area which would be the golf course area and the large ravine bordering its lower side. Finally, they elevated the homes even further so that the oceanfront homes are 5-8 meter above sea level and all the homes in behind are at even higher elevations.

I was also in Bahia during the unusually high king tide in August 2010 that flooded the street along the water in Bahia and some oceanfront communities. The property at Las Olas never had any water on its high tide beach at all so the location must have something going for it.

But what does Randy Russ know about a south American country that has just seen its commodity export prices halved?

Have you ever been to Ecuador?

First, the people of Ecuador tend to be among the nicest you will find anywhere in the world, just check blogs of well-travelled people. So not using a scale of wealth to gauge happiness they are pretty well off. Second, Ecuador has one of the fastest growing middle-classes in South America. Third, Ecuador spends more money on post-secondary education per capita than any country in South America. Fourth, Ecuador has the lowest unemployment rate in all South America. In fact, it has a lower unemployment rate than the United States, Canada and Germany. Fifth, according to The World Economic Forum, Ecuador had the highest improvement in Global Competitiveness in the entire world. Sixth, Ecuador had the greatest Poverty Reduction between 2006 and 2013 in all of Latin America and the highest reduction in Inequalities in all Latin America. Seventh, Ecuador had the most dynamic economy in all Latin America from 2007 to 2014.

It is new growth that creates jobs, reduces unemployment, increases the standard of living and creates prosperity for any country. Seems to me that Las Olas is doing its part to help create jobs and new opportunities for all Ecuadorians.

Nice. And yes I have been to Ecuador.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that their major export commodity and the base of their domestic income - oil - has recently dropped in value by half. Which one might think, is not good news for the domestic economy. Or domestic investment in roads, or water resources, or other kinds of infrastructure necessary for the happy functioning of a gated, golf club, foreigner expat community.

Tell me again about Randy Russ' expertise in south American economic development?

We met some folks in Bahia in October who told us their house in Las Olas would be finished in 9-12 months. We've also heard that home construction is due to start in LO in April. We're just sitting back...watching and waiting.

dfcordero wrote:

We're just sitting back...watching and waiting.

I hope you're doing so while your money is still in your own pocket.

For every economist and financial adviser that says oil prices are going to remain depressed I could show you one that will say it is a temporary situation. If I had a crystal ball I would be able to forecast the future too. By the way, Ecuador already has one of the best road infrastructures in Latin America, has six major hydro nearing completion and has many other sources of income rather than oil. Banana’s, shrimp, tourism, flowers, other seafood products and other agricultural just to name a few. It also has one of the lowest debt levels as a percentage of GDP in all South America so I think it is well position to ride out a slip in oil prices.