The Marriage Party

oh, seems Ron is now serious about a girl. Good Luck!

Lucky I am not serious, just curious.  I have already learned to run when asked to meet the parents, or feel like I am treated as Mr. ATM.  Some of my expat friends however confuse lust with love.  Proably due to oxygen in the blood not making it to the brain because of viagra.

Traditionally, the groom's family shoulders the wedding cost. Crudely speaking, the groom's family is "buying" the bride into their family and they need to pay for gifts to the bride's family, and pay for all the expenses related to the celebration.

Nowadays, you have all kinds. It's common for parents of both sides to split the cost. It's also common for the parents and the couples to split. And yes, sometimes it's only the couples that pay. If the parents help, it's assumed that the couples will pay them back with the gift money from guests. Parents do not always take this  money though.

When it comes to drinking, it's not just at wedding parties. Lots of men think that it shows their masculinity to outdrink others at the table. Easy to see at beer halls and restaurants.

And I don't know anything about sick buffaloes.

ancientpathos
wedding party is very much like an announcement to friends,relatives,neighbor that your daughter/son is getting marriage and they will become mature under people perception. vn way of thinking that you are not mature if you don't have work,family (husband or wife ) and children.
old folk and old traditional believe that you should/must/have to give a certain amount to the bride family as a gesture of appreciation. you appreciate them for bringing her up, or to support them in the future since she is now belong to you.
that sick buffalo you can give them some medicine to cure or give them a shaft knife to kiill and have a BBQ party. unlike westerner who live their own life, vn relative will always hope to receive support or help from any one that they think/believe they can/must help.i just can't explain why,but it is as it was from  long long ago until now. if they not happy because you don't help them,they will say bad thing but that normal.keep your mouth shut and pretend that you are delf and it will over. However,it depends. if they really in need,why don't give them a hand? sure thing that they will always give you a hand when you down too.
people love drinking and it is a way to show that you r friend to them. good friend means drink until you get drunk and sleep on that drinking battle. I don't like that way of thinking too.but at present, that is how they express their hospitality to you )

As a foreigner I can relate to your experiences. Usually they will drink in unison and go bottoms up. But since we are foreigners they want to see how different a foreigner can drink.

As for relatives asking for money. I solved that easily by giving all my money over to my future wife to take care of. If they ask I just simply say ask the wife.

Now this money giving to the bride's family. It's sort of new to me and no one told me about this lol. How much is it usually?

In vietnamese culture, can someone explain to me the marriage party.  Why is the cost of the party the expense of the groom?

According to hearsay, yeah this is Vietnamese custom and belief that the man should prove his ability to take care his wife who raised by her parents these years and go to another family to take care her husband and his family.(In most part of India it's the liability of girls' family. Now it converted into a 'show up' where which they can show their money power to society!)

Why is there an agreed to sum of money paid to the parents?

Yeah, we can say it as a 'dowry' which goes to parents.('dowry' is just opposite in India where which the girls' family gives to girls(and boys too as car, liquid cash) to bring with her husband and more times it causes trouble when the grooms' family keep an eye on this dowry. Giving and accepting dowry is prohibited by law but still this 'process' continuing...)
Nowadays it's only considered as the 'liability' of foreigners!

Why does it seem that every relative has a sick buffalo and needs a loan? Why does everyone want to see if they can out drink you?

This is the habit of some people, not a custom
When I come first time, really surprised of this behavior of many people! A kind of begging mentality! That you can see many times when you go outing in the form of 'lottery ticket'!
All country has it's own customs and beliefs. Just ignore the 'bad' and accept good custom! That's my policy.

hey Ron,little head has more control

Wait a minute.  Vietnamese have 2 parties:  a Tan Hon (at the broom) and a Vu Quy (at the bride).  I can see the broom paying for the Tan Hon party.  But, the Vu Quy as well???

As for the cost is concerned, as one poster mentioned, in Vietnamese weddings, usually the groom is considered to be "buying" the bride into the family, and needs to show her family he is serious about marrying her.

Besides, you can't really expect someone who makes an average Vietnamese salary of a few hundred dollars a month, to help chip in for a $9000-$10K wedding.

I make $4000 a month after tax, my fiance makes $200/month, I'm definitely not asking her to pay for the wedding.

I think if you're a foreigner custom or not you're automatically expected to pay for the wedding and everything else.

I was told because I'm a foreigner I can't have beer 333 it has to be Heineken.

Ok, since so many of you seem to be prepping for the big days, here's the rundown:

- Engagement party: usually one week before wedding date.
Groom-to-be and his family come to officially ask for the girl. Both families announce the agreement to let them get married, and to hold a wedding on such and such date, and to invite people to attend. Girl's family take care of set up, and snacks and tea for the guests. Guy's family bring gifts (what kind of gifts varies by regions). Girl's family give back some of the gifts. The rest they give to invitees along with invitation letter.

- Vu Quy (bride leaving her parents' house): Groom's family go to the bride's. Groom's family present gifts. Groom and bride pray at bride's ancestors altar. Gifts are opened. Groom's mom gives the bride a set of gold jewelry. Groom and bride exchange rings. Groom greets bride's parents and can now call them parents-in-law. Bride leaves with groom.

- Thanh Hon (wedding at the groom's): Bride's family present offerings for the prayer. Bride and groom pray at the altar. Bride greets groom's parents. Bride and groom greet each other. Bride's family takes leave. Groom's family gives them some gifts.

The 3 above are small affairs. Only close friends and relatives are invited.

- The modern wedding party (at a hotel, restaurant etc.): mass of people descend, give money, eat, drink and then leave.

All that said, when my parents got married, it was a simple fare among co-workers, with only candies and tea. Lots of people of that generation had the same experience. And now they just want their kids to have the biggest and most lavish weddings.

So guys, use your judgment. You can spoil them and give them the bling they want. Or you can insist on 333 and not Heineken. Or tell them that you're considering a group wedding, which is getting more and more popular.

Is the word 'thrift' deleted from dictionaries?

Stop being a MR MEANer...
How often does the little Viet guy get to carve a buffalo

Hah.  It sounds more and more like the parents' big day, than the kids'.  So, technically, I think the parents are supposed to pay for these parties.

Khanh, I think somebody just volunteered you.  Dude, at this rate, how are you going to form a harem???

Why is the cost of the party the expense of the groom?

Officially to financially compensate then for loss of helping hands (which is not true because daughter AND mostly her new husband will always take care for her parents too and send money,she will never abandon them) at home but nowadays it's mostly greed (if they want a lot of money) or simply opportunity to get some money.In some other countries it is the opposite - bride's family pays to grooms family but Vietnamese are cunning, they turned it around for their benefit. I think the reason is that in Vietnam son is much more important than daughter so families end up having so many daughters until they finally get the son. Now think how much it would cost them to marry off all these daughters. So at some point in history they turned this dowry thing around .Clever people ,aren't they? Time are changing though,people have less kids so it might change..

Why is there an agreed to sum of money paid to the parents?

See first questions.

Why does it seem that every relative has a sick buffalo and needs a loan?

You are thinking of Thailand but it's similar in Vietnam too. The mentality is not individualistic like in west - you have more money you have to help them. Sounds nice but many take advantage of this do hard working ones end up supporting lazy losers. Nice example of this is when daughter has to prostitute herself in one form or another so daddy can pay his gambling debts. You are also aware how important sons are in Vietnam,despite being usually much more useless than daughters, and so many times the money goes to these sons who more or less waste it.Then come the relatives,it is really never ending line..
Another thing is that in west our relatives need money too but it simply isn't custom to borrow this money from relatives.

Why does everyone want to see if they can out drink you?

Maybe they think it's the only thing they might be better at than you?  They can drink though,it's amazing how much some half your size can drink.

But I think you already know the answers,you seem that kind of type judging by the questions you post, and for some reason are asking just for shits and giggles..

This is a tradition from the CHINESE!
In ancient times, the baby boys were matched to female babies when they were young. A marriage is a union of TWO families and the binding of two clans. Those boys who were not matched had to buy a bride! These are usually the minor sons or sons of mistresses.
As explained, it is the PURCHASE of bride.
In Vietnam, where the majority of the population is living hand to mouth, any source of money is welcome.
Perhaps you haven't met the wealth Vietnamese who give their daughters properties and 20 karat diamonds for their wedding.
Check out those Vietnamese living overseas and here.
In South Asia (Indian continent), female babies are killed at birth! If the parents decide to keep the girl, she is a liability to them to the time she is passed to a man who would be her husband/master. Upon his death, she will jump into the flames as part of his possession!
In West Asia, females are non persons!

In Vietnam, where the majority of the population is living hand to mouth, any source of money is welcome.

This might be true in countryside but not so in Saigon. Sure,poor are everywhere but lots of families have enough money and many times the dowry is paid where there is no real need for it other than just to get some money out of this tradition.

It is their tradition. Who are we to change what the Vietnamese practice for generations because we disagree with their values.
Saigon is a city in Vietnam. The laws in Saigon is the same as the laws for the whole of Vietnam. So are the traditions.
Funny you pick Saigon, which is MAINLY Chinese. As mentioned, this is a traditionally CHINESE practice.
You would not like me to go to your house and change the rules.
To you, they ride/drive on the wrong side of the road (unlike the British system).
Old English saying, a man's home is his castle.
Perhaps you may accept the way your host upholds his traditions and values.

Who said I would like them to change traditions? I didn't. It is true though that there is no need to blindly follow or agree with all the traditions and requests they have , that would have been dumb. Even they don't always follow it.

Be sure that they don't stop following their traditions when they move to USA or abroad. Guess how sympathetic would they be to foreign traditions in case their daughter would move to USA,get married there,her parents would stay in Vietnam and groom would say in USA both families pay for wedding,we do not give any dowry and we do not support our parents financially. I wonder how sympathetic would they be then to foreign traditions? Try the "Who are you to change what the foreigners practice for generations because you disagree with out values." approach I dare you. That guy would have divorce papers served before the wedding night

So yes, it's nice to respect traditions wherever you are but there is no need to blindly follow everything that is in their favor. Just take some Muslim countries for example - would you scold me if I would refuse to follow (or maybe even try to change them,criticize them) some of their terrible traditions when it comes to treatment of women?

Also I'm not from England so Vietnamese drive on the right side of the road,if that is what you meant. Driving on the left side is dumb if you ask me.

Saigon is in Vietnam but it is not the same level of poverty.Saigon is mainly Chinese? Are you living in Cholon to say this? Saigon is 95% Vietnamese(kinh).

Many traditions started for a "sound" reason ("sound" to that particular society at that particular time) and many are perpetuated as a habit. So is wedding procedures in this case, at least in my opinion. If you are familiar with how things go here, I think you would be more inclined to put off judgments, e.g. who's getting the most money out of the it and if that is their intention for throwing the party. It's very case-specific. Sure the bride's family may get some dowry money, but they might also be buying furniture for the newly-wed's apartment, or giving their son-in-law some land, or getting him a cushy job. And even the dowry money, you can't be sure that it's from the guy's family. It could be from the groom, or the bride, or even the bride's parents.

Tito12 wrote:

Who said I would like them to change traditions? I didn't. It is true though that there is no need to blindly follow or agree with all the traditions and requests they have , that would have been dumb. Even they don't always follow it.

Not Following or agreeing with all traditions (Dumb or not) is breaking from traditions!

Tito12 wrote:

Be sure that they don't stop following their traditions when they move to USA or abroad. Guess how sympathetic would they be to foreign traditions in case their daughter would move to USA,get married there,her parents would stay in Vietnam and groom would say in USA both families pay for wedding,we do not give any dowry and we do not support our parents financially. I wonder how sympathetic would they be then to foreign traditions? Try the "Who are you to change what the foreigners practice for generations because you disagree with out values." approach I dare you. That guy would have divorce papers served before the wedding night

We are talking about traditions IN Vietnam.
Vietnamese living out from Vietnam, is another matter. As long as the Marriage ceremony is conducted IN Vietnam, the traditions IN Vietnam are observed.

Tito12 wrote:

So yes, it's nice to respect traditions wherever you are but there is no need to blindly follow everything that is in their favor. Just take some Muslim countries for example - would you scold me if I would refuse to follow (or maybe even try to change them,criticize them) some of their terrible traditions when it comes to treatment of women?

Irrelevant. We are on the subject of Marriage Traditions IN Vietnam.

Tito12 wrote:

Also I'm not from England so Vietnamese drive on the right side of the road,if that is what you meant. Driving on the left side is dumb if you ask me.

Australia follow the Imperial system (British System). Do you drive on the "wrong" side like the side in Vietnam because you consider it DUMB or follow the law blindly, mate?

Tito12 wrote:

Saigon is in Vietnam but it is not the same level of poverty.Saigon is mainly Chinese? Are you living in Cholon to say this? Saigon is 95% Vietnamese(kinh).

Perhaps you may like to research more on the history of Vietnam.
You may be surprised that the top ten Vietnamese family names originate from China!
Today, the few remaining TRUE Vietnamese are living in Sapa!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyễn

If you are marrying a Vietnamese in Vietnam, you can either follow the (dumb) traditions
OR
have a declaration of disrespect to your future in laws which will result in the worst day of your marriage!
The traditional little money is part of the wedding expense or
the outcast and disgrace of your wife from her family forever.

Finally, they don't need another foreigner to tell them how they should live or run their house.

We are talking about traditions IN Vietnam.
Vietnamese living out from Vietnam, is another matter. As long as the Marriage ceremony is conducted IN Vietnam, the traditions IN Vietnam are observed.

The subject was foreigners not respecting or trying to change traditions of locals. Replace Vietnam with let say USA. If they have the right to not accept the traditions in foreign countries then so do we.

Irrelevant. We are on the subject of Marriage Traditions IN Vietnam.

For me the subject was do foreigners have to follow all traditions in another country or do they have the right to disagree with it. So it is relevant.

I've lived most of my life abroad, traveled all over EU and I think that driving on the left is dumb,no matter how they drive at home.

If you are marrying a Vietnamese in Vietnam, you can either follow the (dumb) traditions
OR
have a declaration of disrespect to your future in laws which will result in the worst day of your marriage!
The traditional little money is part of the wedding expense or
the outcast and disgrace of your wife from her family forever.

Traditions are not laws,you are taking this way too seriously.Believe me,Vietnamese have ZERO problems bending or ignoring the traditions if it is not in their favor or if it "endangers" the well being of their family in any way so why should we follow them all blindly? It all comes down to common sense,integrity,assessing the situation and the character of,in this case, family of the bride. If parents see that the groom has no money they can simply say there is no need to follow it. No one loses any money and I have seen this a lot of times. In fact I would go so far that I would say that in vast majority of marriages there is tradition or two that is ignored or broken due to the specific situation.

Or to put it another way: if a family puts old traditions before the well being,reality and wishes of their own child and her husband then it is the same sign of disrespect that you are talking about.I know this is hard to understand in Vietnam where the respect is only one directional (younger to older) but in the west the respect goes both ways. Like we say - respect is earned, not given (in Vietnam it is the opposite!). I'd like to see what you would say if the family of the girl you wanted to marry would be one of those greedy types and set dowry to $5000. Would you disrespect it and disagree or would you simply bend over and pay it? Again, it is just a tradition and traditions are not written laws - some even disappear and Vietnamese bend them all the time for their benefit.

There are a lot of traditions in Vietnam that go against western beliefs and blindly following them is in my opinion a bad decision.(Dis)respect can go both ways.  I don't think that even you follow all of them.

Tito12 wrote:

I've lived most of my life abroad, traveled all over EU and I think that driving on the left is dumb,no matter how they drive at home.

Next time, you should try turning onto the right, where they drive on the left...

Wild_1 wrote:

Tito12 wrote:

I've lived most of my life abroad, traveled all over EU and I think that driving on the left is dumb,no matter how they drive at home.

Next time, you should try turning onto the right, where they drive on the left...

Thailand and Vietnam are the same in regards to driving, there are no rules!  You just drive on whatever side you want.  It makes crossing one way traffic a gamble.

Actually it can be up to 3 wedding parties if applicable - one in HCMC, and one each in the bride and groom's home town! 

But to generalise, the usual VN style is if you have it, flaunt it, including an expensive wedding. I work near a limo place where one can hire a hot pink stretch Hummer for $1000 per hour, or if not terminally vulgar, then a more elegant stretch white Bentley.

Yes, the number of drinks amongst the older men can be a measure of how 'strong' you are. Just like the number of 'wives' you have...

But I have not experienced this binging much at weddings, more at boozy work lunches, especially in the provinces and especially with lesser educated people.

Many VN men I work with don't buy in don't binge, and I think the idea is breaking down amongst the younger city men generally. Educated and urban makes a difference.

Still, there is prestige in tram phan tram with someone honoured or senior, so I get that a lot...

"Australia follow the Imperial system (British System)." Not in measurement units which, sensibly, are metric, whereas the British can't decide if they want imperial or metric and mix them, but just in driving on the left side of the road.

To say driving on the left hand side is dumb is stupid. It is just what people grow up with and the left hand side of the road has the historical credence, as if it matters.

hey tito, my mate married a girl from the phillipines, that is exactly what is happening for him, 10k for 2 fishing boats for brothers any change goes to father to invest in his retirement

[moderated: off topic.]

ancientpathos wrote:

Thailand and Vietnam are the same in regards to driving, there are no rules!  You just drive on whatever side you want.  It makes crossing one way traffic a gamble.

I thought Thailand is the only country with that much traffic and 'no rules'. While traveling in Thailand, you need a lot of patience to sit-down cool inside a taxi in the same place several minutes, while your taxi meter is running non-stop. Luckily they have sky train to the airport.

mark stutley wrote:

hey tito, my mate married a girl from the phillipines, that is exactly what is happening for him, 10k for 2 fishing boats for brothers any change goes to father to invest in his retirement

We too have a dowry system. But that is opposite. If it is a marriage arranged by parents, girl's parents promise some money/property to the groom for the beneficial of the couple and it will be given at the marriage ceremony. But nowadays, many marriages are done as love affairs so that girl's parents give their money/property to the couple not as dowry but as a gift.

No considerable marriages are done between locals & foreigners. If a poor girl marries to a foreigner he normally sometimes helps her poor relatives with few $s. Depends.

Hi,

I am Vietnamese and i know well this situation.
When you are foreigner and get married with a Vietnamese lady. Everybody (relative, friends) thinks that you must be rich. Thus, the cost for wedding and wedding party have to be rich and fully enough. If you are Mr. ATM and have ability to pay for all thing, you can pay. If not, just tell your wife the reality situation. I think, if it's truly love, she will understand and find the way to talk with her family.
Normally, there are three kinds of party in Vietnam.
1) "Le thanh hon" - organized and paid by groom and bride.
2) "Le tan hon" - organized and paid by groom.
3) "Le vu quy" - organized and paid by bride.

mal wrote:

We too have a dowry system. But that is opposite. If it is a marriage arranged by parents, girl's parents promise some money/property to the groom for the beneficial of the couple and it will be given at the marriage ceremony. But nowadays, many marriages are done as love affairs so that girl's parents give their money/property to the couple not as dowry but as a gift.

No considerable marriages are done between locals & foreigners. If a poor girl marries to a foreigner he normally sometimes helps her poor relatives with few $s. Depends.

Lucky,
What is your dowry?  Maybe we a topic where potentual brides list their dowry amounts.

if the bride receives dowry it's called culture. If the groom receives dowry it's called sham.

khanh44 wrote:

if the bride receives dowry it's called culture. If the groom receives dowry it's called sham.

Or better yet he is referred to as a "gigilo"

ancientpathos wrote:

Lucky,
What is your dowry?  Maybe we a topic where potentual brides list their dowry amounts.

Hey Ron, Forgot to tell that mainly dowry is given for a girl who has less beauty So you cant get a dowry from me. Just me!

khanh44 wrote:

if the bride receives dowry it's called culture. If the groom receives dowry it's called sham.

Guys say "Dowry? What? Oh no no! Just the girl" Because they know dowry is coming behind the girl:D