Cairo experiences in recent days...

Fred watches thread as there are potentially interesting posts coming up.

Daily life , not affected . basically bro , around these time u should jst avoid the confrontation areas & it'd be amazing to notice any difference than normal days

infra structure not affected , even through the 15 days "28-jan ~11 feb 2011 " which had larger confrontations & was the 1st time this generation see anything like that ,
infra structure jst rises to meet the challenge , maybe cuz government are afraid from riots . they improve services like water , electricity , cell phone .. internet is shit all around the year so

who are the good guys , there are no good guys ,
Muslim brotherhood are one of the filthiest groups , they are blood hungry all the time & wud stop at nothing to gain any benefits , even sacrificing their own . they use religion , martyrs name . they are simply terrorists

on the other side , the government is corrupt to the core , it's very incompetent & they lack inelegance or vision to deal with situations like that

so basically , we the egyptian ppl are screwed

^
That sounds exactly what the OP is after.

Nice post.

Ok well this is sure to be a controversial post.

1. Most Egyptians believe either the mb are good or bad based on their past personal bias towards them - not based on anything reasonable. If they like the mb before the jan 25 2011 they like them after and if they didn't then they continued to not like them.

2 why did people not like the mb before jan 25 2011 ? There are probably many reasons but I myself only know one. They are scared of "islamic parties" females thought if mb came into power they would be forced to wear hijab and many other instances


3. I believe the mb are using the name religion for political gain.

4 But I do not believe they are as bad as the Egyptian media and the military followers claim they are. It doesn't even add up to common sense what they say. They call them terrorists!  What a joke. What is a terrorist? The military and governement calls them terrorists and every Egyptian just follows suit never questioning a word they here just following like brainwashed children. 

5I don't car if they showed on CBC or Nile that a couple guys had guns. Only a could people out of hundreds of thousands had guns. Plus everyone in Egypt has a gun now adays. I'm sure the people who are calling them terrorists have guns themselves.

6 the protesters were not only mb - that's what the media wants you to think. There were thousands who are not mb - like Jabha al Dameer headed by the Christian lady neven malak..

7. The protesters never stormed any government building ( or they did to one if you actually believe they would try to storm hars jamhoori against a fully armed military) or went out and committed any terrorists acts like bombing or kidnapping etc so where are the terrorists acts so we can call them terrorists?

Guardian said that daily life wasn't affected. Shouldn't the hundreds of thousands of terrorist terrorized people's daily life? Nothing changed hmmm they must be some really peaceful terrorists.

If they are terrorists why did America accept their governance? When Hamas was democratically elecected the USA rejected them.

If they were terrorists why until this day does the Egyptian government still say they want the mb to be a part of politics? Obviously there's a blaring contradiction with those two statements. " you're terrorists and oh won't you please sit down with me so we can run the country

And to believe that the protesters are terrorists is actually quit frightening don't you think? They were millions upon millions protesting for weeks. Can you fathom what you're saying?

8 they sacrifice themselves? What a joke. Again just someone repeating a rumour he heard from someone who hates them without cause just on a biase.

9 how many hundreds have died because of military and police action? That's not terrorism?

10. Sisi said he intervened in politics because he wanted to stop blodshed. But he called for a protest to give him the right to bloodshed and now stormed the protesters. Does that seem like someone who cares to stop bloodshed?

The infrastructure is definitely affected? Do you even know what that word means?

11 daily life not affected? There military law now and you can't go out past 7 o'clock.

of course as an expat my daily life is affected.
the whole of egypt is a tinderbox at this time - ready to go up in flames at any time.
Affrected areas - who knows were they are - no-one! All of egypt is an affected area.
Daily life not affected - how> under curfew - shops opening late and closing very early - due to the curfew.
unable to go out.

1. Most Egyptians believe either the mb are good or bad based on their past personal bias towards them - not based on anything reasonable. If they like the mb before the jan 25 2011 they like them after and if they didn't then they continued to not like them.

wow , what!!! no bro that ain't true , Egyptian ppl tend to forget , so not reading much history coming of jan 25 , MB represented themselves as the misunderstood group that was oppressed & all that they wanted was for mubarak unjust regime to leave , they advocated themselves as brotherhood that seeks freedom , justice & democracy . till of course the 1st vote then the 1st parliament election , the 1st step of presidential election & the 2nd stage
over that period of time based on their action , ppl started disliking them & seeing them for the antichrist they really are

2 why did people not like the mb before jan 25 2011 ? There are probably many reasons but I myself only know one. They are scared of "islamic parties" females thought if mb came into power they would be forced to wear hijab and many other instances

right , u have to differ between MB & other islamic parties cuz they are many
salfeen are more of pacifist but they believe in forcing religion over ppl throat if they can , so they avoid confrontation till they come to power
Jihadi ppl . are all out for blood all the time , they see the entire society as infidel & they want to kill every one sorta speak
political parties such as " Elwast " which is pretty much a front to MB
& there is muslim brotherhood , now their history alone is enough argument to make u hate them , here is a preview
egypt was occupied , it was under the control of king
they negotiated with both the king & the invasion against the egyptian revolution at 52 to gain some power
now other than that , their history is basically  a series of assassinations , terrorist acts " setting building on fire starting with Shekoril & the jew ally " back in 1948  ending with the Giza government house today

3. I believe the mb are using the name religion for political gain.

4 But I do not believe they are as bad as the Egyptian media and the military followers claim they are. It doesn't even add up to common sense what they say. They call them terrorists!  What a joke. What is a terrorist? The military and governement calls them terrorists and every Egyptian just follows suit never questioning a word they here just following like brainwashed children.

false - true
the false part is it's not as bad as media show it , the true part . media try to do her own brain washing
see , 3 sides of the fight
Mb & their islamic fanatics who use religion to brain wash ppl & use them for their advantage " they call anyone who stands against them infidel or an enemy to the islamic project   
Scaf & the old regime remnants who have amazing influence over the media & they brain wash simple minded ppl to use them for their advantage they call their enemies traitors
& there is us > we don't really have a name , we stood against mubarak , scaf & Mb , hoping to teach ppl to think for themselves to steer them away from control of corruption & judging by it , we've failed miserably

5I don't car if they showed on CBC or Nile that a couple guys had guns. Only a could people out of hundreds of thousands had guns. Plus everyone in Egypt has a gun now adays. I'm sure the people who are calling them terrorists have guns themselves.

I'm calling them terrorist & I've never had gun or used a gun & btw how is it right for group of ppl to have a gun & point it at the solider of their own country , I mean it looks like you're justifying it & I'm not sure i get it . that isn't stick or stones or even knives , they had ak 47 , that is an assault rifle
& they use the word ASSAULT for a reason

6 the protesters were not only mb - that's what the media wants you to think. There were thousands who are not mb - like Jabha al Dameer headed by the Christian lady neven malak..

Dude really Jabhat el dameer , " roughly translated as conscious front , it was established by by islamic groups such as MB , salfeen & wast party to confront the salvation front . to show that there are diversity , but u can't be serious as to think they are separated from MB   

7. The protesters never stormed any government building ( or they did to one if you actually believe they would try to storm hars jamhoori against a fully armed military) or went out and committed any terrorists acts like bombing or kidnapping etc so where are the terrorists acts so we can call them terrorists?

i explained why i called them terrorist ,
how about torching police station with RPG & then killing everyone inside " does that qualify for being terrorist ,
how about torching government building " does that qualify for being terrorist act ?
how about torching churches like 12 of them does that qualify as terrorist act to you ,
how about targeting christians & the places they own
i'm pretty sure any of these will qualify for terrorist act in your book , if not please burn your book

Guardian said that daily life wasn't affected. Shouldn't the hundreds of thousands of terrorist terrorized people's daily life? Nothing changed hmmm they must be some really peaceful terrorists.

no bro they're not peaceful but here is the deal , egyptian ppl don't give a crap , u know they've tried yesterday attacking the compound of the Da offices , like 3 km from where i live .
ppl on the street are the one who stood to them .
terrorist succeed in terrorizing other ,when they allow him to do so , my ppl don't scare easy , I've dropped my 56 years old mum to her work in the DA office , went to my work . then went shopping then went to cafe with some friends since it's thursday , all of that knowing there can be some confrontations & simply without giving a damn , that is how daily life is not interrupted
as for today events

If they are terrorists why did America accept their governance? When Hamas was democratically elecected the USA rejected them.

If they were terrorists why until this day does the Egyptian government still say they want the mb to be a part of politics? Obviously there's a blaring contradiction with those two statements. " you're terrorists and oh won't you please sit down with me so we can run the country

And to believe that the protesters are terrorists is actually quit frightening don't you think? They were millions upon millions protesting for weeks. Can you fathom what you're saying?

I seriously hope that what you're teaching isn't history
are u aware that Talban the world first enemy was created by & supported by america
if u believe america is all about democracy then u're pretty naive & here is 3 word to show u that ," background check "
, america is about ppl it think it can control & usually it's wrong
our revolution was heading into another iranian revolution dude & with influence egypt had , that wasn't a good thing for anyone .
" btw if u intend to respond to this point , do some reading about the iranian revolution.PLZ
btw i didn't say that all demonstrator were terrorist , i said MB are , as I said earlier in this post they do use religion to brian wash ppl , so there are MB , brainwahsed & plain stupid ppl in the demonstrations 

8 they sacrifice themselves? What a joke. Again just someone repeating a rumour he heard from someone who hates them without cause just on a biase.

9 how many hundreds have died because of military and police action? That's not terrorism?

i didn't say they sacrifice themselves , i said they sacrifice their own . i hope that is not mistake in my english , anyway . i wrote like three pages article in arabic about the al7ars elgomhory but the long story short ,
some demonstrator open fire on the military ,  the military responded by opening fire & killed who ever was unlucky to be close . military didn't want to be portrayed as killer , they didn't benefit from that
Mb benefited by saying we were slaughtered trying to gain some sympathy & rallying more supporters 
3 criminals
1- terrorist who open fire on military
2- military ppl brutal force
3- stupid ppl who trusted MB & went to support them
now i believe that Mb staged that & that the terrorist that started that act was theirs 

10. Sisi said he intervened in politics because he wanted to stop blodshed. But he called for a protest to give him the right to bloodshed and now stormed the protesters. Does that seem like someone who cares to stop bloodshed?

let me ask u simpler question , in ur country , do u allow ppl gathering with guns in high numbers in residential area , against the law , terrorizing ppl of that area , cuz i get confused
i guess not ,btw i didn't like how it ended . not a big fan of bloodshed & as i said , the government lacks the vision or the competence . it should have been done that i believe , but i think it should have been done differently 

The infrastructure is definitely affected? Do you even know what that word means?

i thought i did but when said that i went to check in wiki pedia

technical structures that support a society, such as roads, bridges, water supply, sewers, electrical grids, telecommunications, and so forth,

bridges -- working
roads -- still there
water supply --  there is water in the tap
sewers ---- i wudn't go check but yes it's there other wise i have no idea where the dumb i jst took went
electrical grid , . tv is on , lap has power , ac is working & light is on
telecommunication - cell working , phones are golden , internet is active

so the dumb old me don't know the meaning of the word but i think it's working , that is jst me though

11 daily life not affected? There military law now and you can't go out past 7 o'clock.

bro seriously , u follow curfew , ah u r foreigner . it's sort of understanding , it really doesn't exist , i've been on cafe till 10 pm

of course as an expat my daily life is affected.
the whole of egypt is a tinderbox at this time - ready to go up in flames at any time.
Affrected areas - who knows were they are - no-one! All of egypt is an affected area.
Daily life not affected - how> under curfew - shops opening late and closing very early - due to the curfew.
unable to go out.

the confrontation are , are the big squares , in octobre that mean Hosary sqaure . . there is a curfew , but it won't tell if u didn't follow it , u can go out when ever u want. it won't rat u out , how ever if u came through policeman or sth , jst say u went out to get some medicine ,he maybe even show u to the nearest pharmacy
the curfew is meant to install order , & it has never been carried out in egypt , at least for us locals

I'm not going to reply to your reebuttals exceptt in general; most (not all) of your rebuttals weren't even close to the points I was trying to make

I will just say one last thing

1. I heard the same arguments during the Mubarak protests

2. I will never believe that security forces are killing hundreds of people because their terrorits (doesn't that sound like the same Israeli-Palestini propaganda to you?)

3. I've been to the protests myself and didn't see any weapons or terrorist acts. I know many many people who have been there as well and didn't see any weapons or terrorist acts. And by the way IM NOT IKHWANI and I hated the ikhwan before all this happened. I even told every Egyptian I knew not to vote for Morsi (but nobody listenend) I'm not going to believe rumours and false news reports from teh Egyptian media whose at like 170 on the freedom of press index over my own experiences and my common sense

4.Let's say you're right, the protesters are terrorists. How many terrorists are in youre "lovely, friendly" country then?

Cause since hte beginning of the protests till now there's been millions of people protesting. You want me to believe you're country has this huge amount of terrorists? That sounds a little ridiculous to me

5. Sisi said he made the "military takeover" to stop blood shed and a civil war.
Now he's causing bloodshed to make the military takeover successful

I'm not going to reply to your reebuttals exceptt in general; most (not all) of your rebuttals weren't even close to the points I was trying to make

well i did responded to it point by point , so i'm not sure where were i far from the points u're trying to make

I will just say one last thing

1. I heard the same arguments during the Mubarak protests

*wat same arguments , i remember things quite clearly , we didn't carry ak 47 or rpg , all the weapons ppl had were stick & stones
& later improvised weapons , how can u compare the two .
*in mubark demonstration when the police withdrawn , I along others formed human barrier to protect the egyptian museum from being looted , there hasn't been a single church set on fire or attacked , it was under the protection of Egyptian ppl

2. I will never believe that security forces are killing hundreds of people because their terrorits (doesn't that sound like the same Israeli-Palestini propaganda to you?)

a- not all terrorists , " terrorists , brian washed , plain stupid "
the government should protect the stupid ones or the brain washed ones , but our government is soo damn incompetent as i stated repeatedly .
when a terrorist open fire ,they respond in brutal force " they don't have the mean to deal with this semi hostage situations
never had to know how . now the other side , the MB ikhwan side is using this waaaaaay to their advantage . they actually want large numbers of death so they can maximize on that . al jazeera channel said the first day that there is 2200 killed then at the end of the day , it said that there is jst 300 .
wat i don't understand is how stupid are the ppl who protest for the sake of being turned into number . i do get that religion is powerful tool to brainwash ppl but seriously it's pretty damn stupid

3. I've been to the protests myself and didn't see any weapons or terrorist acts. I know many many people who have been there as well and didn't see any weapons or terrorist acts. And by the way IM NOT IKHWANI and I hated the ikhwan before all this happened. I even told every Egyptian I knew not to vote for Morsi (but nobody listenend) I'm not going to believe rumours and false news reports from teh Egyptian media whose at like 170 on the freedom of press index over my own experiences and my common sense

yeah me too , on both cases ,
the difference I actually promoted voting for morsi in the second round , he was against shafiq & i couldn't allow him to win , not after all we went through , & i know ppl who went to the protests too & didn't see weapons . well they saw weapons but not assault rifles . however didn't mean it wasn't there
i want you to keep one thing in mind , if the army used its full power , if it wanted everyone in the protests dead , they'd have been . Nahda protest was undone in 45 minutes , no death .
the police & special forces aimed to do that without causalities  .but faced with gunfire , they responded . again incompetent government & terrorists , i have no problem with u dishing at the incompetent government . jst for heaven sake don't defend the terrorists . search for an article about their history first

4.Let's say you're right, the protesters are terrorists. How many terrorists are in youre "lovely, friendly" country then?

Cause since hte beginning of the protests till now there's been millions of people protesting. You want me to believe you're country has this huge amount of terrorists? That sounds a little ridiculous to me

do u know the number of illiterate ppl in egypt , do u know the number of ppl with phd & still fucken ignorant ,
have u tried or seen some ppl controlled by magic words ,
it's against your religions , or god says
u have been to these protests , when u asked them why are they protesting , what answer did u get .

5. Sisi said he made the "military takeover" to stop blood shed and a civil war.
Now he's causing bloodshed to make the military takeover successful

sissy didn't take over , we took over , all the millions that got out in june 30 , the military responded to what the ppl want .
morsi succeed by 12 million voters , 51% of the voters
rebellion gathered 22 million signature to take morsi out .
his ppl will sea egypt burned before they allow that to happen . & we will not let that happen . at whatever costs ,
today was an example , the so called Islamic demonstration , was stopped by the residents of each area , not by military or police , jst the residents & btw they had weapons

-------------------------

--------------------
listen bro , i'm not trying to disrespect u or anything , I've been through this revolution from the very start , I broke my arm , my leg twice & got allot of shreds removed from me , developed quite a tolerance for tear gas effect , lost allllot of clothing from being either wounded or shot at by police & ikhwaan alike . i have no love for either of them & will never trust any of them >i've been called traitor , infidel even masonic & have been tired for as long as my memory takes me . & i keep telling my self ,enough , it's not really my fight anymore .
when this started it was for noble causes , justice , freedom ,liberty . I didn't fight so MB take over & start its rein of oppression . I didn't fight so i make new Iran , egypt jst deserve more & I'm a skilled writer & i can't come up with good ending .

Okay you win Egypt has had thousands and thousand of terrorist just living amongst in secret and now magically they have all appeared.

Imagine that. Egypt has had all these bad terrorists for so long.
THen they actually win an election and have a terrorist president! America agrees to his presidency. Military takes over because "22" million (yeah right) people protest against him. What a coincidence.
And then the Army says they want to terrorists to be a part of political life in Egypt. If they're such big bad terrorists why did th esecurity forces wait so long to get them? Why even after their terrorism does the military and interm government say they want to work with the terrorists?

Terrorists - beware they live among us!

Propaganda at it's "best" (if you don't know how to think)

Now Egypt is Israel

Im not here to defend the MB. I'm only here to say the security forces are evil, plain and simple.

And by the way, the churches were burnt at the exact same time as the dispersing of the protests. How could it be an act of revenge of hte MB?


Just like the Alexandrian church bombing a couple years ago, the interior ministry did it and blamed it on Islamic extremists.

It's called a false flag operation. Authorities have been using them for centuries. Hitler did the same thing to declare war on Poland.

Whats so funny is many of the churches that were said to be burnt weren't even burned! You can find many popes coming out saying that their churches were not touched.

And even more funny: here is one from Minyah where he says that the Muslim Brotherhood didn't do it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRioMVTtT1M

Wait I was wrong, correction - Its not just Egypt whose filled with hundreds of thousands or terrorists but there were even protesting for them in Canada, USA ! Turkey, Libya, indonesia, Malaysia, Austria etc... That's a lot of terrorists, you must be a terrorist too!

Okay you win Egypt has had thousands and thousand of terrorist just living amongst in secret and now magically they have all appeared.

Imagine that. Egypt has had all these bad terrorists for so long.
Military takes over because "22" million (yeah right) people protest against him. What a coincidence.
And then the Army says they want to terrorists to be a part of political life in Egypt. If they're such big bad terrorists why did th esecurity forces wait so long to get them? Why even after their terrorism does the military and interm government say they want to work with the terrorists?

Terrorists - beware they live among us!

Propaganda at it's "best" (if you don't know how to think)

Now Egypt is Israel

I'm pretty sure u didn't read a word i said , or that my english was so bad u didn't understand a word i said
here goes .

1- not all demonstrators terrorists ,
a- MB is terrorist organization . it started as terrorist group , performing assassinations , torching building , & that goes back over 70 years ago 
b- there a tons of brain washed ppl in name of religion . in case u didn't get that line it's been used successful to brain wash ppl since the creation of ppl , with high rate of ignorance & illiteracy  they are doing amazing job in doing so
if u do speak arabic , i'd recommend watchin
yarmouk tv @ 11678 v 3/4
see what they saying , how is it that the entire army are infidels , how is it that army incarcerated all the Muslim soldiers & what face them are the christian ones .
c- plain stupid who trust MB that plays at nothing but to turn them into numbers to negotiate on

btw today demonstration showed that , i witnessed them shooting on building & ppl & torching cars at 15th may bridge . & it wasn't military that stopped them , it was residents

THen they actually win an election and have a terrorist president! America agrees to his presidency.

i did say that u should read about iranian revolution right , do u have problem with reading , u r teacher , u should love reading
any long story short iran made revolution against the shah ,
islamic & secular parites alike , they worked together & iran was heading to amazing prosperity in the field of human rights , then trusting - like we were when we elected morsi - an islam fanatic come to power , the west stood still . he set revolution guards , revolution court & pretty much arrested everyone who stood against him & that how a very balanced amazing revolution ended in IRAN , do u by any chance like iran ?
now i didn't say 22 million got into demonstration
I said rebellion " tamrod " gathered 22 million signature to take morsi out . the numbers that went on 30 june were so vast but there is no accurate numbers of how many they were

If they're such big bad terrorists why did th esecurity forces wait so long to get them? Why even after their terrorism does the military and interm government say they want to work with the terrorists?

in my 1st reply i did said & I'd jst quote it

Egyptian ppl tend to forget , so not reading much history coming of jan 25 , MB represented themselves as the misunderstood group that was oppressed & all that they wanted was for mubarak unjust regime to leave , they advocated themselves as brotherhood that seeks freedom , justice & democracy

plz bro i really take time to reply to you . so make sure u read what i just type , ok ?

I knew watching this thread was a good idea.
Politically charged situations tend to create strong opinions but, as long as debate remains free of personal insult and nastiness, I'm sure this will make interesting reading.

A few facts should be made clear.
America kept a dictator in power for many years. This action sowed the seeds of discontent.
America backed the elected government, regardless of who they were.
America refuses to call this a coup, even though the military has used force and extreme violence to remove the elected government.

That suggests a lot of foreign interference in internal Egyptian politics (I'll take a wild shot in the dark as to the reasons) and that may well go far deeper than we see in newspaper reports.

I can see this turning into an all out civil war so, if I were there, I would make myself ready for a quick exit if things turn worse.

Im not here to defend the MB. I'm only here to say the security forces are evil, plain and simple.

breaching to the quire , yes they are evil , In the very 1st reply i said that there is no good guys in that fight , that the government is corrupt , incompetent & lack the intelligence & vision to deal with that 

And by the way, the churches were burnt at the exact same time as the dispersing of the protests. How could it be an act of revenge of hte MB?


Just like the Alexandrian church bombing a couple years ago, the interior ministry did it and blamed it on Islamic extremists.

really we r down to hersay now , bro mubark was very corrupt person so is his interior minister but do u have like a shred of evidence to wat u say now

It's called a false flag operation. Authorities have been using them for centuries. Hitler did the same thing to declare war on Poland.

cool u know hitler , do u know by any chance know that he came to power by democratic election

Whats so funny is many of the churches that were said to be burnt weren't even burned! You can find many popes coming out saying that their churches were not touched.

And even more funny: here is one from Minyah where he says that the Muslim Brotherhood didn't do it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRioMVTtT1M

ok i think u didn't understand the video , language barrier & all
that is priest who said that many churches & christian organization & christian homes were attacked & that he believes that it was cuz of dispersing the protest , as a reply to it
as MB saying that cuz u did that , we're gonna drag you to swamp
his exact words

Wait I was wrong, correction - Its not just Egypt whose filled with hundreds of thousands or terrorists but there were even protesting for them in Canada, USA ! Turkey, Libya, indonesia, Malaysia, Austria etc... That's a lot of terrorists, you must be a terrorist too

certainly hope not , but they like you see wrong image far twisted from truth
they don't know MB like we do


BTW final point , r u aware that after some bombing in the 1990's
some of these terrorist seek assaylm in European countries & it wasn't until sep 11 that were considered terrorists

I knew watching this thread was a good idea.
Politically charged situations tend to create strong opinions but, as long as debate remains free of personal insult and nastiness, I'm sure this will make interesting reading.

A few facts should be made clear.
America kept a dictator in power for many years. This action sowed the seeds of discontent.
America backed the elected government, regardless of who they were.
America refuses to call this a coup, even though the military has used force and extreme violence to remove the elected government.

That suggests a lot of foreign interference in internal Egyptian politics (I'll take a wild shot in the dark as to the reasons) and that may well go far deeper than we see in newspaper reports.

I can see this turning into an all out civil war so, if I were there, I would make myself ready for a quick exit if things turn worse.

i agree with ur fact , disagree with the meaning ,
they backed dictator , we took him down ,
they backed elected government we also took it down

for me i think it shows that foreigner interference doesn't have strong influence
pretty much it goes like , they say wat they want , we'll do wat we want

I can see this turning into an all out civil war so, if I were there, I would make myself ready for a quick exit if things turn worse

i'd have to disagree,
basically the last civil war was 3200 bc that over 5000 years ago
egypt has been through some heavy shit but never a civil war ,
today i saw why
yes there is attempt to drag us into Syrian scenario
but hopefully we'll avoid it bro
there is soo much potential here , it'd suck if it gone to waste
again all that maybe my wishful thinking

Guardian wrote:

i'd have to disagree,
basically the last civil war was 3200 bc that over 5000 years ago
egypt has been through some heavy shit but never a civil war ,
today i saw why
yes there is attempt to drag us into Syrian scenario
but hopefully we'll avoid it bro
there is soo much potential here , it'd suck if it gone to waste
again all that maybe my wishful thinking

A civil war would pretty much destroy Egypt for at least two or three generations.
Such a war would very probably leave Egypt as a mess of factions, all fighting for a power grab and destroy the lives of the vast majority.
However, you have to consider; some people would have an interest in that happening.

Neighbouring countries (and their supporting nations) may well be willing to push for a civil war in order to remove a potentially enemy and the Muslim brotherhood could well have been seen as a potentially serious problem by those countries.

You said, you do as you like, but there may be influence pushing your actions in a given direction.

Those interfering governments tend to remove aid in the event of a coup but not a lot has happened so far.
US law forbids arms and aid to countries where there has been a coup but they simply avoid calling it a coup and carries on pretty much as normal.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east … a-1.460733

Egypt has recently turned down a U.S. request to stop an Iranian ship carrying weapons to Syria, according to a report in Egypt's Al-Ahram newspaper.

According to the report, quoted in Israel Radio on Sunday, Lieutenant General Mohab Mamish, Suez Canal Authority chairman, said Egypt's navy refused to stop the ship and inspect its cargo as it was passing through the canal.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 … y-to-egypt

A major military build up just off your coast.

There's very likely to be far more to this "Not a coup" than is seen on the surface.

A civil war would pretty much destroy Egypt for at least two or three generations.
Such a war would very probably leave Egypt as a mess of factions, all fighting for a power grab and destroy the lives of the vast majority.
However, you have to consider; some people would have an interest in that happening.

yes a civil war wud leave egypt a mess , make life unbearable for while , destroy the infra structure but as i said we've been though allot along the 5000 years , we didn't have one civil war
right now there are two forces on the st , MB & its supporter & the rest of egypt , we're much stronger & much larger in numbers & the army decided to side with us . so pretty much if they even consider civil war they'd be crushed in seconds

today the MB & its supporter made marches that intended to be demonstration later , they marched with guns btw shooting at residential building & ppl . " in any normal country , police & army deal with law breaking . then when they can't they ask the ppl for help "
in Egypt the locals took care of most of the law breakers . caught them & delivered them to the army . & when they faced sth they couldn't handle . like too much assault rifles for example the army intervened

the more probable & equally dangerous problem is terrorist attack . since our national security system is very weak & we can't adjust to it - we don't have version of jack powers - but we r nosy ppl & very resourful so hopefully that won't work either

Neighbouring countries (and their supporting nations) may well be willing to push for a civil war in order to remove a potentially enemy and the Muslim brotherhood could well have been seen as a potentially serious problem by those countries.

most of the nation around us are allies & don't perceive us as a threat . since though having strong army egypt didn't invade any country in over 2000 years or so . we have strong relationship with almost all of them , with the exception of Israel which i doubt perceive us as a threat .

You said, you do as you like, but there may be influence pushing your actions in a given direction.
Those interfering governments tend to remove aid in the event of a coup but not a lot has happened so far.
US law forbids arms and aid to countries where there has been a coup but they simply avoid calling it a coup and carries on pretty much as normal.

the aid america give to egypt can not be removed . America keeps that aid in order cuz it's part of the peace treaty with Israel
it sort insure that egypt play ball in matter of security of israel . the prevention of the aid , will jst endanger the treaty & israel security , which america won't do .
other aid from other country is pretty much useless for egypt since almost 90 % of it get stolen & spent on un realistic programs . jst to take the money , so the aid won't that much of problem ,

Russia has lost allot of allies in the area , in the grand scheme , egypt was considered to be an allie to USA as syria was an allie to russia . that is why russia is pretty friendly with egypt these days .
& here comes the final point , neither country really care for human rights or democracy or any of that stuff , it's all wat's best for me .in that regard . egypt is country u want safe & in your side , as i said too much potentials . largest area in middle east , largest population , largest number of scientist working abroad , largest natural resources .
it's not Talban , if it ever fell into hands of terrorist no one wud be ever safe .
btw harrry for u , i really like how organized your thinking is

So you're saying the Mb are terrorists and everyone else re just stupid people. With all due respect your argument still seems hilarious to me.

I seen on Egyptian news today a couple of people with guns. But there was no way to tell who they were - they weren't wearing name tags. Again a couple people out of thousands. But i seen lots of security forces with guns and plained clothed people standing and shooting beside the security forces. Plus today's events are a reaction of two days ago. To be a terrorist they must have done somethings before today.

Burning buildings? Did you see anyone actually physically burning a building or just a building on fire? There's no proof of who burnt what.

You mentioned that you protested against Mubarak, didn't the people burn dozens of buildings and cars and police vehicles during those protests? So you must be a terrorist!

Even Mubarak didn't outright call the mb terrorists and let them into politics and have places in his government.

The word terrorist wasn't strictly used against the mb until sisi gave his speech asking for protests against them. Ever since that day they ve been labeled and the faithful Egyptians use the same label ( to obsolve themselves of the sin of killing)


As for the video maybe I posted the wrong link I will watch it and see for myself - thank you for pointing that out if you're right

As for the evidence of the interior ministry blowing up the church in Alexandria, yes I have evidence I seen the order of the ministry itself with my own eyes captured by a friend after the breaking into the state security a couple years ago. And you can even see a picture of it on the Internet. I don't have the link right now I will try to find it and post it. I thought everyone knew that?

You mentioned that you protested against Mubarak, did you protest against him personally or his system? Cause it's the same interior ministry now, the same state security, the same military that's running things now. So your only problem was with the old man himself, not with the actual people who do all the dirty work for him?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east … a-1.460733

Egypt has recently turned down a U.S. request to stop an Iranian ship carrying weapons to Syria, according to a report in Egypt's Al-Ahram newspaper.

that is very old news like jst after his election or sth , it meant nothing & had no repercussions wat so ever , iran saw it as a peace offering since egyptian iranian relation wasn't good but that is a whole different story

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 … y-to-egypt

A major military build up just off your coast.

There's very likely to be far more to this "Not a coup" than is seen on the surface.

that was actually planned in case things went sideways & organized with egyptain government . the military wanted a relief agents in sinai in case it had to leave to deal with trouble in the capital , there was also a multi national peace keepers ready to help the fight against terror in sinai

or so we have been told

Even the most hateful person towards the MB resigned today - Khalid Dawood.

Mb having machine guns firing t civilians and buildings what a joke. If its true than your security agencies are one big joke!

Israel Palestine

Libya and the opposition

Syria and Homs

Egypt and the MB

Couldn't Egypt at least came up with a new story?

So you're saying the Mb are terrorists and everyone else re just stupid people. With all due respect your argument still seems hilarious to me.

maybe but doesn't make it less true bro

I seen on Egyptian news today a couple of people with guns. But there was no way to tell who they were - they weren't wearing name tags. Again a couple people out of thousands. But i seen lots of security forces with guns and plained clothed people standing and shooting beside the security forces. Plus today's events are a reaction of two days ago. To be a terrorist they must have done somethings before today.

u 've seen the news !!! . ok here is how marches go in egypt, there are points of assembly then u start marching to gathering point then a gathering point & so on till u reach the final destination . that couple of thousands belonged to MB supporters & these ppl with assault rifles were waking with them , they showed no objection to them whatsoever , back in our demonstration , there used to be organizers that will take any weapons found in the march , now u 've seen the news ,
I WAS THERE , CAN U SEE THE DIFFERENCE . this march passed right by my street , me & my neighbors are the ones who stood to it & made them run back & btw
is ur argument goes like that
a- how do u know the armed person belong to MB
b- if they do it's reaction & it's ok to carry assault rifles & shoot at ppl.
R U JUSTIFYING PPL THAT SHOOT AT MY NEIGHBORS & MY HOUSE   

Burning buildings? Did you see anyone actually physically burning a building or just a building on fire? There's no proof of who burnt what.

You mentioned that you protested against Mubarak, didn't the people burn dozens of buildings and cars and police vehicles during those protests? So you must be a terrorist!

no bro we didn't burn down buildings , or cars , we burnt down police vehicle when it attacked us & after we made sure it was empty we evacuated the soldiers in it , as i said we prevented the looting & burning of the egyptian museum with no tools watsoever & if u r talking about the building that were burnt it was away from us away from the main demonstration ,& yes the ppl who burnt down building or cars at that time are terrorists   
btw u r doing it again
a- u don't know that MB burned the houses
b- if they do , its ok , it doesn't make them terrorist

Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians

that is the defination of terrorism , see if it works on them

Even Mubarak didn't outright call the mb terrorists and let them into politics and have places in his government.

The word terrorist wasn't strictly used against the mb until sisi gave his speech asking for protests against them. Ever since that day they ve been labeled and the faithful Egyptians use the same label ( to obsolve themselves of the sin of killing)

actually mubark thought them to be terrorists to , they were called the banned party ,that began after the bombing they did to luxer where they killed 17 tourists , & killing all the police officer in town in upper egypt
mubark got to power after they assassinated the president before him Alsaddat , who got them out of jail in the first place , cuz they were sent their by Gamal abd alnasser who sent them there after they burned the jew ally & a series of stores , & trying to kill him .
PLEASE FIND A TIME TO READ ABOUT THEIR HISTORY , CUZ . I'VE SAID THAT LINE IN EVERY REPLY I POSTED

As for the video maybe I posted the wrong link I will watch it and see for myself - thank you for pointing that out if you're right

I'm right , if u want i can translate it to u , roughly , all 4 minutes of it

As for the evidence of the interior ministry blowing up the church in Alexandria, yes I have evidence I seen the order of the ministry itself with my own eyes captured by a friend after the breaking into the state security a couple years ago. And you can even see a picture of it on the Internet. I don't have the link right now I will try to find it and post it. I thought everyone knew that?

yeah i saw that , i didn't believe it though , 1st i could Photoshop better version ,
2nd there was no purpose , if he gave the order , why kill 2 ppl in interrogation
no i think that he was portrayed as escape goat ,

You mentioned that you protested against Mubarak, did you protest against him personally or his system? Cause it's the same interior ministry now, the same state security, the same military that's running things now. So your only problem was with the old man himself, not with the actual people who do all the dirty work for him?

no the entire system , but guess wat after we won , the MB tried to keep the entire system no matter how hard we demonstrated to change them . i think they wanted to use the corrupt system to their advantage & they failed ,
as i said also in every post i posted
the system is corrupt , but MB are terrorist , believe it or not.
one of my friends father was in the national party , the one mubark belonged to , I had a fight with him once about that every member in that party is corrupt & he didn't want to understand that his father is corrupt , my final argument was . he either participated or did nothing while wrong was being done
the same applies for MB members , they are either terrorists or jst ppl who keep silent , eitherways . MB are TERRORISTS . i think u have like a friend there that u jst can't believe he is.
but i'm sorry , that is jst how things are
I don't like the fact that my country is screwed right now , but it's a fact that i have to own to it .
plz if u r gonna make like post again to reply to u , plz don't let me repeat my self , it won't take u a minute to research for MB history , or IRanian Revolution History ,

Mb having machine guns firing t civilians and buildings what a joke. If its true than your security agencies are one big joke!

they are " a joke " & u should read my replies bro

Israel Palestine

Libya and the opposition

Syria and Homs

Egypt and the MB

Couldn't Egypt at least came up with a new story?

Dates speaking it was a new story when egypt used , everyone jst copied ...
syria has free army but yeah i get ur point ,

Dear ExpatEnglishTeacher,

Whenever I go to any country, I enjoy my life and just don't bother others commenting on their internal or external policies.

Last time I was in Spain, there were a lot of demonstrations against Catalonia governor. I didn't even ask what it was all about.

Whenever I feel that I don't enjoy a country, I just book a ticket to another country or come back to my home land.

I think you should read some books like "A mosque in Munich" for Ian Johnson, then you'll know the real reasons MB was founded. Also foreigners debating and complaining about our politics, economy, or traditions inside our country, take us outside our comfort zone and make us feel disgusted.

So finally, if you don't trust the Egyptian media, Egyptian army, police forces, or other egyptians on the forum here, you aren't obliged to stay further. You aren't Egyptian as your profile says, and it isn't your case. you can go enjoy yourself in Toronto and help people building their houses again.

Have a good day!

I'm not Egyptian you're right but actually my family is Egyptian. I have an Egyptian wife and son. And more importantly I'm human.

I always found it funny - in Canada I knew many Egyptians and they all called the,selves Canadian just because they lived there for a few years but here in Egypt I've been here about a decade now but still Im called a foreigner and that i can't understand what's happening here and it's not any of my business.

But beyond that
Let's agree to disagree but I think we at least should agree what's happening in Egypt is very sad. There should have been be a reconciliation and now Egypt is turning into a civil war.

The great Egyptian government instead of calling for peace is still incitingj it's citizens to civil war.

London, Paris, germany, katherine eureoresentitive said this situation could have been avoided. They gave how many proposals but all were regected. What was so hard? If anyone was sincere there could have been a referendum. Instead some are bent on a power hungry frenzy feeding off of people's hate for each other.

I never said that terrorism is okay. And I didn't say that there wasn't any violence from the protesters

. As nine arab human rights groups in a joint statement ""That some participants in the sit-in and its leaders committed criminal acts, were in possession of weapons and engaged in violence does not give the security authorities a license to impose collective punishment and use excessive force when dispersing the sit-in, according to international standards for the right of peaceful assembly,"

And amnesty international "Based on the initial testimonies and other evidence we've gathered, there seems to be little doubt the security forces have been acting with blatant disregard for human life, and full investigations that are both impartial and independent are urgently needed," said Philip Luther, Middle East and North Africa Program director at Amnesty International.

Amnesty International said that although some protesters used violence, the response was "grossly disproportionate."

"Security forces resorted to lethal force when it was not strictly necessary to protect lives or prevent serious injury - this is a clear violation of international law and standards" it said. "Previous promises to use graduated force when dispersing the sit-ins and provide ample warning and safe exits were quickly broken."

By the way you really should read about history yourselves. Im a history fanatic and know all about it. Unlike most I don't only read national books published under a governments supervision and just magically belief the books.iread from as many different sources as possible and I read analytically ( do you understand that term? If so what does it mean? What is the process of reading analytically?)

. I implore you to get the book "how to read a book" and the book " straight thinking". And then investigate your opinions again.

Let me say one last time. Egypt is being lead into a civil war. The only solution is political not a military one.

By the way in the video the man said the burning of the churches happened at the same time as the dispersing of the sit ins and he hasn't seen anyone himself doing it.

‎
الصوت المدنى الوسطى و ثقافةالمناطق البينيه
مفهوم الأماكن البينية هذة الفكرة التى تطرق لها بالتحليل الناقد البرازيلى سيوفانيو سانتياجو فى كتابه 0أدبيات فى العالم الإستوائى)عام 1978 وفى بدايات التحول الديمقراطى فى البرازيل فى مفهوم الأماكن البينية فى تجاوز الأفكار الأصولية المنغلقه وتناقضها مع الطبيعة المرنه للثقافات وتجاوز إشكاليات صراعات الهويات المتعددة وتبعات هذا المفهوم على إشكاليات إدارة الأختلافات فى حوار الثقافات وتفاعلاتها المختلفه ومحوريته فى إدارة نشاط الذكريات الثقافية عند التحول الديمقراطى
كان من ينتقد أصوات الفاشية فى البرازيل يتم إتهامه فى الداخل بإنه عميل لخلية نائمة للشيوعية وكان من ينتقد أداء الأحزاب الشيوعية الأوروبية يتهم بإنه كافر بمبادئ الإشتراكيه و أنه موال للعسكرية
فى ظل خوف الأصوات الحكيمة للأماكن البينية تصاعد العنف فى الحياة المدنية وساد الصوت الفاشى (إما أن تحب البرازيل العسكرية أو أن تكرها)
وحيث أن هناك صوت ثالث غائب *الصوت المدنى الوسطى*
غائب دائما بحجة طوارئ العنف
وفى حقيقة الأمر وبكل أسف غياب هذا الصوت نفسه هو سبب تطرف المواقف واستمرار العنف
ويتذكر البرازيليون كيف أضطر عدد كبير من الأصوات الوطنيه المعتدلة لمغادرة البلاد لملاحقتهم باتهامات الخيانة والتفكير
وما أحوجنا الآن لتلك الأصوات المدنية الوسطية القادرة أن تعبر ببلادنا من هذة الكبوة و ان نستطيع أن نوقف دائرة الغضب والعنف
ونبحث عن مستقبل ونترك الماضى باخطائه بل بخطاياه
نحتاج حقا لمزيد من الوسطية والقدرة على التسامح وقبول الآخر
نحتاج قليل من الرشد السياسى من منطق الأماكن الوسطية البينية

Actually you can't still get my point. I used to have an English GF but I never commented on England's politics or how they treated protestors in London in the last incidents. So having an Egyptian wife or son doesn't mean to complain about Egyptians or the current regime.

Again my point, you can check other forums like Istanbul. You won't find foreigners complaining about the incidents in such way. Even in Greece, England, or last incidents in NYC, nobody complained or kept accusing people.

I know you've a good brains, but you don't know the culture or the language as the natives. Even if the natives lead the country to a black hole but stupidity as you think, still its their decision, their country, and they deserve what they lead themselves to.

I'm sorry if I couldn't or still can't explain myself well.

Have a good evening!

By the way in the video the man said the burning of the churches happened at the same time as the dispersing of the sit ins and he hasn't seen anyone himself doing it.

u should complete the last 3 minutes of the video u posted btw
or did u bring it up for jst 1st minute

I always found it funny - in Canada I knew many Egyptians and they all called the,selves Canadian just because they lived there for a few years but here in Egypt I've been here about a decade now but still Im called a foreigner and that i can't understand what's happening here and it's not any of my business.

yeah cuz egypt is complicated , when u are born in egypt u take on thousand of years of heritage . things that take a life time to master . btw i don't agree with well about it's none of your business

London, Paris, germany, katherine eureoresentitive said this situation could have been avoided. They gave how many proposals but all were regected. What was so hard? If anyone was sincere there could have been a referendum. Instead some are bent on a power hungry frenzy feeding off of people's hate for each other.

yeah sure , they know about the situations in egypt better than egyptian . that make sense . & power hungry " did u by any chance read any article about MB as i asked u to ?

By the way you really should read about history yourselves. Im a history fanatic and know all about it. Unlike most I don't only read national books published under a governments supervision and just magically belief the books.iread from as many different sources as possible and I read analytically ( do you understand that term? If so what does it mean? What is the process of reading analytically?)

i can tell by ur total lack of knewledge regarding every subject we talked about & didn't know that there was there was national book published under government supervision , plz do tell wat are these books ,
& u do read , amazing , tell me what do u know in your analytical reading about MB histroy , & Iranian revolution , i'm sure history fanatic such as ur self have read about it ,giving u r interested in the current event

Let me say one last time. Egypt is being lead into a civil war. The only solution is political not a military one.

if u r talking like negotiating with ppl who is committing terrorist act , I'll use a page from the american politcs ,

WE DO NOT NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS

& here where it all comes to
we agreed that government suck ,
we disagreed that MB is a terrorist organization

u used absurd arguments like , no body saw them & if u saw them it may not be them & if it them , it's ok to torch buildings & to shoot at ppl cuz that is the case
one more thing , I was quite impressed that when i told u that they shoot at me , my neighbors & my street , u didn't say
"well they missed so no harm no foul "
bro here is where it all come to
it's not the military who is terrorizing the streets right now , it's not the interior ministry , it's the MB & its supporter ,
they are the one who is pushing for civil war in " it's our way or no way " kinda attitude & we are stubborn ppl ,we will not take that shit from them .trying to take the country as a hostage . & u have the nerve to portrait them as victim ,
now screw the government , screw the military , it's as simple as this , u shoot at my house , i'll kill you . & believe it or not i'm pacifist .
We the egyptian ppl , the one who actually have to stay at this country & don't have the luxury to leave , Do not want MB in power , if they r not fine with that , it's their problem
u keep trying to make it military Vs Mb
it's not . it's MB Vs entire egypt
btw I'll add the books u recommended to my reading list , but i have like tons of books to go through 1st

some info i'm sure u know about egypt that & the reason why it'll take a life time to understand it
arabic culture that goes back for 2000 years
pharoh culture that goes back for 7000 years
it's the oldest civilization on the face of the planet & as egyptian we never threw anything away
we took a piece of every civilization we came in contact with
that wud be , Hexos , sumar , babylon , persian , roman , arabic , english , french ,turkish  , & I'm pretty sure i missed a few
it's a really complicated heritage & made for a really complicated characteristics
even the language we speak . it's a mix between arabic , english , french & Qebty & ancient Heiroglaphy 
so don't be disappointed

I pray they don't lead themselves to a black hole.

You've explained yourself perfectly clear the first time. Because I'm a foreigner I have no business saying anything. Sounds like a cop out to me.

By the way were on Expat.com not EGYPT blog (did I ever tell you or any other Egyptian not to come on this forum) I'm discussing my opinion on an Expat.com not an Egyptian blog.

Even if my wife is Egyptian. Even my son is Egyptian. Even though I chose to migrate and live here. Evrn if i have egyptian citizenship.. I always hear Egyptians asking why I live here when every Egyptian wants to live in Canada. So they have a right to an opinion about Egypt just because they were born here by accident even though they don't even want to be here?

I wonder is my son alowwed to have an opinion? What if he has children here, will they be allowed to hve opinions?

It's really funny to hear an Egyptian saying this as well as many many Egyptian families aren't 100% Egyptian. They have heritage from Bukhara amd turkey and many other places. What's your last name, I want to trace your family tree and see wear your from.

Even if we go way back:
Diont you call yourself an Arab? The original natives of Egypt were not Arabs. Arabs came to Egypt with the Islamic empire spreadin
G under Amr alAs.
Anyways it's your opinion in e end that I can't have an opinion. I thought Egyptians wanted democracy? If you do well I'm sorry but you can't want democracy without the freedom of opinions

At least guardian has respect for his opinion that he can argue with me. You just went off the map. So it's not that my opinion is right or wrong I'm just not allowed to have one.

I hope when you come back to Egypt ( you probably won't ever if you get the us citizenship - but I'll still be here!) you don't call yourself American or American Egyptian or egyptiian American or whatever else.

Even if we go way back:
Diont you call yourself an Arab? The original natives of Egypt were not Arabs. Arabs came to Egypt with the Islamic empire spreadin
G under Amr alAs.
Anyways it's your opinion in e end that I can't have an opinion. I thought Egyptians wanted democracy? If you do well I'm sorry but you can't want democracy without the freedom of opinions

I know it's not meant for me but i wanted to set the record straight , i don't call my self arab , there has been many arguments regarding this egypt has been part of the arabic world for 1400 years give or take few decades , they have been pharos for 7000 years , our civilization which as u may see i'm pretty enthusiastic about is far more superior
we are part of the arab world for 1400 years , we were part of the british empire for around 150 years  , the roman empire for roughly 300 years & persian empire for few centuries , the turkish empire for centuries too , but we have & will always be
Egyptian , pharos sort of speak . I do believe it's the greatest civilization that ever existed . that give me heartache jst thinking of the level of decay we allowed our civilization to take .
btw not much wud agree to that

I implore you to get the book "how to read a book" and the book " straight thinking". And then investigate your opinions again.

btw my reaction when i read that line of How to read a book was
"well u open the 1st page & start reading "
sort reminded me of "The Mask of Zorro "
when antony hopkins asked antonio Pandaros
" DO u know how to use a sword "
" yes pointy thing in the other guy "
" we have allot of work "
:p really cracked me up

I know I'm going to change your mind. I just hope you have a heart and arent not a heartless bastard who can beat a fellow Muslim or Egyptian or human being

I believe the world powers  definitely know better what's happening than the average citizen. Do you really think you know what's going on behind those close doors? I don't even claim that.

I believe the world is divide into two, the powerful and rich and all the rest of us. And theses powers to be keep splitting and divinding the average man between each other. They cause Muslim/ christian fights, black/ white fights, men/women fights etc. the powerful know how to stir peoples emotions and get the to follow and do what they want. Look up the Hegelian dialectic , please do this now.

I must admit I'm very sad and disturbed that you believe there is a war of Egypt vs terrorism. Tis is very scary. Your belief is going to lead Egypt into civil war. I hope you and other regular Egyptians have a bigger heart than to praise on security forces or actually going down in the strets themselves to kill people.

I was pulled over by a Lagan shabiyyah and they were going to attack just because they thought I was Syrian. Another I know him and his wife were pulled over and they threatened him with a knife and gun till he pulled out his passport saying he was Canadian.

By the way I'm a ex gang member. I livedoff violence, drugs and murder. Alhamdullilah I grew up and became a Muslim. Years a go I came to Egypt a long time before any Mubarak protests. Do you know what happened to me when I came here? The Amin doula ( state security) raided my house, searched it and took me away. I was escorted by tens of security forces with automatic weapons and forced into a police truck. They took me to an Amin doula building after blind folding me. I was there in that room for days. I found out there was 20 of us there in that room all of us were foreigners.

Officers would come in and take one of us for questioning.you could hear people screaming , they were being tortured. Finally after a few hours someone came in asking if there is anyone who hasn't been "questioned" yet. I shouted at the chance. I knew I was going to be tortured but I also knew if I never get questioned I wasn't ever going to be let go.

Anyways the man took me led me out of the room and made me kneel down and put my head on a wall infront of me. I could hear another man and he was turning the electricity on. At this point I started yelling I'm Canadian I'm not a terrorist. The man who led me out of the room said of yeah you're Canadian I love Canada I have relatives who live there. He then instructed the torture man Not todo anything with me but to bring me to another room.

This newroom was nice. It was air conditioned. Now I was sitting blindfolded still on the floor and there was another officer speaking English to me. He told me they won't do anything to me they just want to ask me questions. He asked the typical questions of state security, basically your whole life story. Why did i become Muslim. Why did it come to Egypt. What mosque do I pray at. What Egyptian sheikh do I listened to etc after his questioning he brought me to another room.

Still blindfolded I was standing up and I could hear many people in front of me. They started speaking to me asking questions. The tv was also on they were laughing at hatever they were watching. Finally they brought me back to the first room with the others..

Later they had us all line up and escorted outside th ebuilding.ey took off our blind folds and led us into the police truck. Everyone around me was happy, I was not. Everyone started asking where are we going. I told them were obviously going to jail, where else, do you think they would actually give us a ride home.

Anaya's we finally arrived at th epolice stations dn they locked us in a cell. There was no room for all of us to sit down at the same time and it was hot as hell it was summer time. We spent days there withno food.finallywe convinced one guard to go get us food of course we had to bribe him. That was a big mistake. After I ate it was even more hot. I could barely breath.

We spent our time talking tach other and so forth. Everyone there was a foreigner, there was even a 17 year old kid whsebodywas burnt by the electricity.

Across from our cell there was another cell with an Egyptian man there. He said he was an imam of a mosque and he's been there for such a long time and he didn't even have a bathroom in his cell.

Anyways after some days a police officer came an dallied our names off a list and told use were free to go.just we had to go to amin doula to pickup our stuff (they took our computers and phones etc )

So all of this happened why?because I was accused of being a terrorist.
I'm sure you have even worst stories of people you know. Everyone knows how terrible it is in Egypt.

These are the  same security forces now who are calling mb and protesters terrorists. How can I or you trust such an evil organization?

This wasn't the first time I was questioned either. I've been questioned by the Canadian Amin doula called CSIS and the FBI when I wen to America. All because I was a convert who prayed five times a day. Funny thing is I travelled to a dozen other countries as well. I was never questioned there, such as Taiwan, amsterdamn, Japan etc. it seems only the countries who live off the terrorist propaganda wanted to question me. How come I never got questioned anywhere else when you know once one country has. Alike on you they all do.

Egypt is doing to same thing as Israel, america, Syria etc. are you really 100% convinced that it's really a war on terrorism? If so how convenient the people who are against the military take over just happen to be terrorist. Seems to strange to be real.

.

Oops I mean to write I know I'm NOT going to change your mind lol

Thanks for explaining everything here as well. I guess your reasons are very well known.

I won't be able to cope up in this thread anymore. I've more important stuff to do.

Have a good evening!

sry bro for the tragedy u've been through , it's a part of being egyptian , it's all i'm saying
I never trusted the government , not once ever sine i grew up
i was taken to Amn eldawla 2 , the 1st time i was still in secondry school - the 2nd was in college , but they've never done more than asking questions & never kept me for more than a day or few hours . pretty much all egyptian have been interrogated once or twice
there is a saying in egypt
" three things makes u a man . enlisting in the army , being abroad  or being injailed "
Amn Aldawla is corrupt ,
one of the 1st demands was re organizing the interior ministry
when we had our 1st elected prisdent , the one I supported against shafiq cuz we feard shafiq was jst gonna be another mubark
things changed . but not in the direction we wanted
when we demonstrated before we faced security forces
after morsi when we demonstrated , we faced security forces & MB militia
before we were called , thugs , traitors ,
after we were called thugs , traitors & infidils , enemies to the islamic projects

Morsi said in one of his incoherent speeches that security forces are the one who protected the revolution , that the talk about cleaning the system is shameful & demeaning one

before morsi there was corruption
didn't change after , if anything it increased

so I'd never side with morsi , or MB ever again
======================
regardless this i also said in one of my previous replies
I never delegated the army in fight against terror
the fight against terror is an empty word that used to voilate human rights .
-------------------------
that being said I do believe that MB are terrorists , it's what they are , it's their own actions , their own words that proves that
. if u are afraid of civil war , as I said earlier , it's not gonna happen inshallah
I'm more afraid of MB continuing their actions
cuz if ppl get fed up & regardless that egyptian in nature is very peaceful community .
they'll slaughter them all
that army will have to interfer in order to protect them
u can't believe the sheer amount of hate towards them from locals ,
Mb thinks that they're going against army & once the body count is big enough , they're gonna force the hand of sissy into negotiation
what they fail to understand , is once the body counts get high enough the normal ppl will jst get fed & kill every single one of them
what ever drastic action the army take to restore order , whatever body count , it's the lesser evil
cuz the moment ppl in the streets thinks that the army can't contain these terrorists , they are gonna take matter on their own hands & that won't civil war , cuz the word war imply two equal forces
it'd be slaughtering  & I do pray that it will never come to this & that they will come to their senses before that happen