is this a common practice

Yes they job discriminate. Age, sex, single, attractive, etc. Even fast food (McD) requires a college degree. When there is underemployment, the employers can get away with just about anything.

Also, its not solely a Philippines thing, when I worked in Germany, they required a head shot, most applicants went to a professional photo studio to get theirs done.

Hello

This has nothing to do with discrimination, at all.
But they need pic in resume because that is what's common and normal. It is like "automatic" to attach your pic. It is like yo put a face to whatever you write there.

When you get here you will understand better.

Cheers!

tzitsme wrote:

Hello

This has nothing to do with discrimination, at all.
But they need pic in resume because that is what's common and normal. It is like "automatic" to attach your pic. It is like yo put a face to whatever you write there.

When you get here you will understand better.

Cheers!

It might be normal practice in the phillipines. but this is the first time i hear of submitting a photo with your application or resume. I just find it a bit discriminatory for them to require a picture. I am not all suprise. Here in the US they do a criminal background check and a credit check to even qualifify for a top position. SMH

dhnindc wrote:

Yes they job discriminate. Age, sex, single, attractive, etc. Even fast food (McD) requires a college degree. When there is underemployment, the employers can get away with just about anything.

Also, its not solely a Philippines thing, when I worked in Germany, they required a head shot, most applicants went to a professional photo studio to get theirs done.

gonna make an appoinment for my glamour shots.practice my "game" face. maybe a little make up to make myself look a bit like a model

Bang_bang wrote:

dhnindc wrote:

Yes they job discriminate. Age, sex, single, attractive, etc. Even fast food (McD) requires a college degree. When there is underemployment, the employers can get away with just about anything.

Also, its not solely a Philippines thing, when I worked in Germany, they required a head shot, most applicants went to a professional photo studio to get theirs done.

gonna make an appoinment for my glamour shots.practice my "game" face. maybe a little make up to make myself look a bit like a model

**************************

I personally would recommend working on the brain, for someone who grew up in the Philippines, the disconnect is extraordinary.

Bang_bang wrote:

So im on the job seekers site in the phillipines looking to fill some marketing postions. I find that most of the employers and job posters are asking for your photos attached with your resume, a majority of them also requires that you be less than 35 years old. now im no jason bourne so forging my own identity is not something im going to do. What irks me is what is the photo thing about. do they discriminate that bad requiring you to have a photo? i could undertsand the age issue but picture? what gives?!

Well, some companies want to know how u look like, afterall, being a staff of the company, ur image will affect the company reputation...

For example, u might have a good profile, good qualification and experience... but ur hair is neon green in colour and u have tons of piercing... The company will have 2nd thoughts hiring u... well unless u're applying for something design or arts related...

There are some jobs that would require that the successful candidate looks presentable, thus they require a picture. These are usually jobs where you will be required to meet clients face to face.

tzitsme wrote:

Hello

This has nothing to do with discrimination, at all.
But they need pic in resume because that is what's common and normal. It is like "automatic" to attach your pic. It is like yo put a face to whatever you write there.

When you get here you will understand better.

Cheers!

Apparently you don't know what discrimination is...To put a maximum age on employment which doesn't require heavy labor is DISCRIMINATION...There can be no other term for it...As long as one can do the work even up to an elderly age they should not be discriminated against and be given the chance to prove to the employer they are best suited for the position...

Bang_bang wrote:

So im on the job seekers site in the phillipines looking to fill some marketing postions. I find that most of the employers and job posters are asking for your photos attached with your resume, a majority of them also requires that you be less than 35 years old. now im no jason bourne so forging my own identity is not something im going to do. What irks me is what is the photo thing about. do they discriminate that bad requiring you to have a photo? i could undertsand the age issue but picture? what gives?!

Tha!!! there are billions of people around the world and your not the only one who has a unique name but at least a unique face ehem!! (not unless someone tries to mimic you). Pictures is one of the requirements needed in any government, public or company establishment or whatever. Sorry to say that Philippines is not as high tech as USA as what you said no need for pictures just click on the computer and wallah!!! your identification shows wether your good or bad......I just don't know why the Phil. government did'nt bother to have it instead of having a pork barrel......just saying

Apparently the member raised two issues here, one is age and the other is about pics.  You might want to read my reply again as it only and solely concerns about the pic issue, and it did not mention anything bout the age. If you are so stuck  with my first line saying 'This has nothing to do with dscrmnation at all', that is just how I see things. Regardless how you view this as discrimination or not, face the fact that u are in Philippines. And that is how we do things here.

I dont see asking a pic and requiring age limit is Discrimination, you do. But hey people have different opinions and views, and ur little preaching there wont change mine.

Thanks.

tzitsme wrote:

Apparently the member raised two issues here, one is age and the other is about pics.  You might want to read my reply again as it only and solely concerns about the pic issue, and it did not mention anything bout the age. If you are so stuck  with my first line saying 'This has nothing to do with dscrmnation at all', that is just how I see things. Regardless how you view this as discrimination or not, face the fact that u are in Philippines. And that is how we do things here.

I dont see asking a pic and requiring age limit is Discrimination, you do. But hey people have different opinions and views, and ur little preaching there wont change mine.

Thanks.

You got one thing right "THIS IS THE PHILIPPINES" and THE SHEEP FOLLOW WHAT THE ELITE EXPECT OF THEM...
It's obvious you are brainwashed like the majority of your citizens...
Example: The majority of Filipino people through TV, RADIO and the MEDIA are led to believe to have ONE MILLION pesos is a HUGH sum and should you acquire such a sum you are wealthy..
WHAT A JOKE...Not even INDIA or CHINA considers that being wealthy..In INDIA they offer upwards to 20,000,000 Pesos as prizes on a game show but not in this country...But game show hosts make more here than there..GO FIGURE...

You did mention the age discrimination this time around...
Any person over 35 who could do the same job or maybe a better job according to their experience would most undoubtedly be discriminated against should the employer decide on a less experienced OR attractive person under the age of 35...

You more likely than not are under the age of 35 and once you become 40,45,50 and even 60 and you apply for a position you know you are undoubtedly the best qualified because of education and experience and your potential employer goes and hires a young 22 year old with a dress hiked up to the cheeks of her butt, spiked heels and a ton of makeup fresh out of college with no education or experience for the job being applied for...What would you call that??...According to you "NOT DISCRIMINATION"...I would say the young 22 year old just won a fixed lottery like so many here...

HOW IS THIS COUNTRY EVER GOING TO GET BACK TO A 2ND WORLD NATION, WHICH IT ONCE WAS, IF IT DOESN'T ENFORCE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL...

THANKS

vetretreat wrote:

tzitsme wrote:

Apparently the member raised two issues here, one is age and the other is about pics.  You might want to read my reply again as it only and solely concerns about the pic issue, and it did not mention anything bout the age. If you are so stuck  with my first line saying 'This has nothing to do with dscrmnation at all', that is just how I see things. Regardless how you view this as discrimination or not, face the fact that u are in Philippines. And that is how we do things here.

I dont see asking a pic and requiring age limit is Discrimination, you do. But hey people have different opinions and views, and ur little preaching there wont change mine.

Thanks.

You got one thing right "THIS IS THE PHILIPPINES" and THE SHEEP FOLLOW WHAT THE ELITE EXPECT OF THEM...
It's obvious you are brainwashed like the majority of your citizens...
Example: The majority of Filipino people through TV, RADIO and the MEDIA are led to believe to have ONE MILLION pesos is a HUGH sum and should you acquire such a sum you are wealthy..
WHAT A JOKE...Not even INDIA or CHINA considers that being wealthy..In INDIA they offer upwards to 20,000,000 Pesos as prizes on a game show but not in this country...But game show hosts make more here than there..GO FIGURE...

You did mention the age discrimination this time around...
Any person over 35 who could do the same job or maybe a better job according to their experience would most undoubtedly be discriminated against should the employer decide on a less experienced OR attractive person under the age of 35...

You more likely than not are under the age of 35 and once you become 40,45,50 and even 60 and you apply for a position you know you are undoubtedly the best qualified because of education and experience and your potential employer goes and hires a young 22 year old with a dress hiked up to the cheeks of her butt, spiked heels and a ton of makeup fresh out of college with no education or experience for the job being applied for...What would you call that??...According to you "NOT DISCRIMINATION"...I would say the young 22 year old just won a fixed lottery like so many here...

HOW IS THIS COUNTRY EVER GOING TO GET BACK TO A 2ND WORLD NATION, WHICH IT ONCE WAS, IF IT DOESN'T ENFORCE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL...

THANKS

I'm not a Filipino but have lived here many years now. And even for me, it makes me wonder - if this individual has so many issues with the country, what is his interest in the country and why would such a person stay?
This is not our country. We are guests here and in my book, any guest, if not happy is quite welcome to take one of the many flights outa here and go home. I could find many things that I think are wrong here too. But doing so will not change them even one bit.

You obviously have bigger issues than a simple pic and age.
And im not particularly sure if ur response is amusing or pathetic.
Philippines is far from perfect. That is undeniable. And no matter how many times you assert of all imperfections this country have, that will not change anything,. well not unless the Philippine President would happen to read all ur sentiments. But thats really a long shot, so Im not gonna count on that.

Again, you obviously have bigger issues than a simple pic and age. Please do the lecture elsewhere. As I said : that was my own opinion & thats all. thats all. You have ur own opinion too, and I sure did not refute that. Sometimes u need to understand and realize and Respect that people have different opinions and stance. - that simple.

Also they say 'if you are in Rome,be a Roman.' I say if u can not be a Roman, at least respect what the Romans  have..

very very good point Sir. I dont think these "visitors" are on leashed so  If Philippines is giving them too bad or maybe extremely bad impression, they can pack and go.

thanks

tsitsme and pampanga1...You both have forgotten what the initial posting made by bang_bang is all about..DISCRIMINATION...If you both feel it is not discriminatory to hire someone based upon their age, so be it...

As far as myself liking this country and its people...That is why I chose to live here...I truly enjoy most of my Filipino friends(POOR) and believe it or not most of them think the same way about the basic two social climates in this country...Rich and Poor and not much in between...So you say do as the Romans do...Which means go with the flow...That is what I do but it doesn't mean I have to like it nor do I have to like it when I see the poor go into a hospital to receive EMERGENCY treatment and are turned away simply because they don't have enough pesos in their pockets or detained by Security until the bill is paid...That is not only UNLAWFUL in this country but is also considered discrimination....

Pampanga...You say you have been here for many years...Well with that being said I ask you how is it the Philippines has gone from a 2nd World Nation to a 3rd World Nation in such a short period of time???

tsitsme...Your profile states you wish to find work in the Maldive Island Group...I guess when you get there you will say they have no discrimination either...When in fact they are one of the most discriminatory countries in the world...Especially when it comes to religion and the sexes...They go as far as destroying their religious history and imprisoning teenage girls for premarital sex even when it was from being raped...Also, as a foreigner you are not even allowed to bring in Christian literature...

My point is discrimination is a worldwide problem even in the USA and all peoples should take a stand to try and eliminate it in a FREE and Democratic Society which this countries constitution claims to be...

Anyone who thinks all Filipinos are created equal are truly blindsided..All you need to do is go out and survey the POOR and ask them if they feel they are treated equal under an Authoritarian Rule...

So I say to you both...Quit missing the point...Many Filipinos feel they are DISCRIMINATED against because of their age or physical appearance even though they may be more qualified than the description of the 22 year old I previously mentioned...A 40 year old mother or father of four needs employment much more than that of a person freshly out of college who doesn't meet the qualifications of the job...

THAT IS MY POINT...

Point well taken.

I did not miss the point. Its sooo hard to miss bec The guy simply asked if requiring a pic and setting age limit is Discrimination,thats all. So I answerd No, I dont think its discrimination. The topic is NoT SOLELY about DISCRIMINATION.

You went far beyond the topic. You are just out of line Lecturing about: 2nd 3rd world nation, the poor go to hospital, TV Radio Media, Authoritarian rule, and democratic society etc.. I mean what on earth are these teacher?? How do I pass the tests Mr speaker ?hehehe
   You see I somehow understand ur desperation to express ALL ur frustrations and disappointments in this country that u are willing to announce them even it is uncalled-for.
Sir the real issue is only for this guy to know the opinions of people here if the asking of picture and settng certain age (for job) is truly discriminating. And thats all. YES you did give ur own opinion, but I dont think its necessary for you to refute whoever does not share with same opinion  of yours.

If u really want to express more of ur sentiments with discrimination and all,  why not create and post a Blog here.. or go to Cafe Forum or Post this as Discussion Im sure there will be a long thread of response for this.

Its intriguing to know that u  checked my profile. Im flattered though. Thanks.

tzitsme wrote:

Apparently the member raised two issues here, one is age and the other is about pics.  You might want to read my reply again as it only and solely concerns about the pic issue, and it did not mention anything bout the age. If you are so stuck  with my first line saying 'This has nothing to do with dscrmnation at all', that is just how I see things. Regardless how you view this as discrimination or not, face the fact that u are in Philippines. And that is how we do things here.

I dont see asking a pic and requiring age limit is Discrimination, you do. But hey people have different opinions and views, and ur little preaching there wont change mine.

Thanks.

OK! You are right; I was somewhat off topic on the discrimination issue..

So lets just go back to the second paragraph of your statement above and attempt to face FACTS...

In my OPINION, I suggest you go online and GOOGLE "Define Discrimination" and read all definitions of what is DISCRIMINATION and if you still think their definition is incorrect and a employer is not DISCRIMINATING when they put and age limit on a menial or skilled JOB then I will most definitely agree with your statement at the end of your 1st paragraph;

"Face the fact that u are in the Philippines and that is how we(You) do things here"

But in my OPINION I seriously doubt most Filipinos would go to the extreme of trying to change the defined meaning of an ENGLISH WORD but you in your opininated view undoubtedly have...

I do believe I have stayed totally on topic with the above...

It's in your court...

Yup you have stayed on the topic with few and the rest, i dont know, you just took us to planet Mars whatever. It went just far beyond at some point,  which you now acknowledged and So I can quitely settle fo that.

SINCE I am sounding here that you are starting to understand that people have differnt opinion, you might be surprised to know that I took ur suggestion and really went online and did look for that difinition. And u know what, it did not change how I stand on this issue. Im sorry.
   I still dont see anything wrong if employers want to see the face behind the credentials. It is the company's prerogative to set or not age limit depending on the position. But if you have a top-notch credentials with exceptional skills, I also believe that its all the company's prerogative to defy all that and make an exemption. THAT again, are all in my opinion.
You obviously have different opionion, and I have too,.. so to quote you "So be it."

Well, your govt has introduced a bill to prevent job age discrimination:

MANILA, Philippines — A bill that will prohibit and penalize employers who will decline any application or forcibly lay off a worker on the basis of age and other forms of discrimination has been filed at the Senate.
Senator Pia Cayetano said she filed Senate Bill No. 29 or the Anti-Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 2013 to put an end to what she considered an emerging type of discrimination in the labor front — discrimination in employment based on a person’s age.
The bill, she said, sought to penalize any employer, labor contractor or labor organization that would discriminate against any individual because of age.
Cayetano said the measure was anchored on the constitutional provision that mandates the state to ensure equality of employment opportunities for all.
“The basis for employment should be a person’s knowledge, skills and qualifications which are necessary to perform a job. A person’s age should not be an issue,” she said in a statement on Tuesday.
“Prejudice against age is apparent in job postings which set arbitrary age limits for applicants. We often see these in classified ads, job fairs, billboards and the Internet,” she said.
Under the proposed measure, employers from the private sector as well as the national and local government units would be prohibited from:
* Printing, publishing, or causing the printing or publishing of any notice of advertisement relating to employment suggesting preferences, limitations, specifications and discrimination based on age;
* Requiring the declaration of age or birth date during the application process;
* Declining any employment application because of the applicant’s age;
* Discriminating against an individual on account of his or her age in terms of compensation, terms and conditions, privileges, promotions and other opportunities; and
* Forcibly laying off an employee because of old age.
“You would think that this is an issue affecting senior citizens, but no, even those in their late 20s are already discriminated against,” Cayetano said.
“When I go around the country, people who look to be in their late 20s, 30s or 40s would sometimes approach and ask me, ‘Senadora, pwede po ba nating ipagbawal sa batas ang age limit sa job hiring? Kahit may edad na po kami, kaya pa naman namin, pero laging mas bata ang pinipili ng mga employer['Senator, is it possible to prohibit the setting of age limits in job hiring? We are still capable despite our age, but employers tend to prefer younger applicants over us.']”
Once enacted into law, any person who would violate the measure would be fined not less than P50,000 but not more than P500,000, or imprisoned for not less than three months but not more than two years, or both, at the discretion of the court.
Related Story:
newsinfo.inquirer.net/446711/after-anti-discrimination-bill-vs-age-cayetano-eyes-one-vs-looks


Read more: newsinfo.inquirer.net/445865/age-doesnt-matter-says-cayetano-in-anti-discrimination-in-work-bill#ixzz2dPd0G1fA
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook

dhnindc wrote:

Well, your govt has introduced a bill to prevent job age discrimination:

MANILA, Philippines — A bill that will prohibit and penalize employers who will decline any application or forcibly lay off a worker on the basis of age and other forms of discrimination has been filed at the Senate.
Senator Pia Cayetano said she filed Senate Bill No. 29 or the Anti-Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 2013 to put an end to what she considered an emerging type of discrimination in the labor front — discrimination in employment based on a person’s age.
The bill, she said, sought to penalize any employer, labor contractor or labor organization that would discriminate against any individual because of age.
Cayetano said the measure was anchored on the constitutional provision that mandates the state to ensure equality of employment opportunities for all.
“The basis for employment should be a person’s knowledge, skills and qualifications which are necessary to perform a job. A person’s age should not be an issue,” she said in a statement on Tuesday.
“Prejudice against age is apparent in job postings which set arbitrary age limits for applicants. We often see these in classified ads, job fairs, billboards and the Internet,” she said.
Under the proposed measure, employers from the private sector as well as the national and local government units would be prohibited from:
* Printing, publishing, or causing the printing or publishing of any notice of advertisement relating to employment suggesting preferences, limitations, specifications and discrimination based on age;
* Requiring the declaration of age or birth date during the application process;
* Declining any employment application because of the applicant’s age;
* Discriminating against an individual on account of his or her age in terms of compensation, terms and conditions, privileges, promotions and other opportunities; and
* Forcibly laying off an employee because of old age.
“You would think that this is an issue affecting senior citizens, but no, even those in their late 20s are already discriminated against,” Cayetano said.
“When I go around the country, people who look to be in their late 20s, 30s or 40s would sometimes approach and ask me, ‘Senadora, pwede po ba nating ipagbawal sa batas ang age limit sa job hiring? Kahit may edad na po kami, kaya pa naman namin, pero laging mas bata ang pinipili ng mga employer['Senator, is it possible to prohibit the setting of age limits in job hiring? We are still capable despite our age, but employers tend to prefer younger applicants over us.']”
Once enacted into law, any person who would violate the measure would be fined not less than P50,000 but not more than P500,000, or imprisoned for not less than three months but not more than two years, or both, at the discretion of the court.
Related Story:
newsinfo.inquirer.net/446711/after-anti-discrimination-bill-vs-age-cayetano-eyes-one-vs-looks


Read more: newsinfo.inquirer.net/445865/age-doesnt-matter-says-cayetano-in-anti-discrimination-in-work-bill#ixzz2dPd0G1fA
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook

TZITSME...Spin your bottom on the above for awhile now that you know what I had to say was to the point...There is an old saying "Ignorance is bliss"..On the other hand being stubborn to the truth can be called something else...STUPIDITY...

Nice research efforts dhnindc...My hats off to you...

And you can quote and copy & paste all chapters you want. And I am not gonna move from where I stand. Ive stated my case and My point still stands, regardless you love it  or just quite love it.   You try too hard  (too hard that I cant help but gigle) convincing me as if  the world all depends on it. hehehe..

tzitsme wrote:

And you can quote and copy & paste all chapters you want. And I am not gonna move from where I stand. Ive stated my case and My point still stands, regardless you love it  or just quite love it.   You try too hard  (too hard that I cant help but gigle) convincing me as if  the world all depends on it. hehehe..

Keep spinning yourself on your thumb and giggle yourself into oblivion...Better yet; email your Senator and tell her that her Bill is something from Mars...

By all means, you can email her yourself as apparently you are the one who has the problem here. Or no balls to do that huh?y Tsk.

Regarding the picture issue:

It's not a discrimination issue. It's just that it's already customary here to ask for a picture from a job applicant. Potential employers don't really pay much attention to the picture. And they'd have you come anyways for a personal interview.

If it's a big deal to you that your potential employee is asking for a picture, then be warned that some employers will require you to go through a medical screening. Xrays, blood tests, urine and fecal sample, etc.

My husband went through those tests, even if he was just applying for a call center position. He wants to move to another company, but the hassle and iffiness of giving the last two samples to his new employers make him want to just stay.

In the US, you can sue a potential employer for discrimination if they require you to go to such screening. Here in the Philippines, no. I guess it's because it's been customary to ask for medical info, just like requiring you to submit a picture.

Employers are looking at increasing their sales. Sales are driven by customers. It cannot be avoided that customers will be more likely to buy from that attractive girl or guy. It's customers who are to blame, I guess, because they have a tendency to become discriminatory.

FilAmericanMom wrote:

Regarding the picture issue:

It's not a discrimination issue. It's just that it's already customary here to ask for a picture from a job applicant. Potential employers don't really pay much attention to the picture. And they'd have you come anyways for a personal interview.

If it's a big deal to you that your potential employee is asking for a picture, then be warned that some employers will require you to go through a medical screening. Xrays, blood tests, urine and fecal sample, etc.

My husband went through those tests, even if he was just applying for a call center position. He wants to move to another company, but the hassle and iffiness of giving the last two samples to his new employers make him want to just stay.

In the US, you can sue a potential employer for discrimination if they require you to go to such screening. Here in the Philippines, no. I guess it's because it's been customary to ask for medical info, just like requiring you to submit a picture.

Employers are looking at increasing their sales. Sales are driven by customers. It cannot be avoided that customers will be more likely to buy from that attractive girl or guy. It's customers who are to blame, I guess, because they have a tendency to become discriminatory.

I am afraid I have to disagree with you...I find that the majority of the so called attractive under 30 employees especially women are ill trained and more into themselves then they are at helping the customer..My experience since I have been here most of the average looking and somewhat older employees are more helpful in helping you find what you need and much more knowledgeable...I have seen many young seductive female employees flirting and having conversation with their male counterparts and just look on while customers are needing help with purchases...I personally think this country should pass laws to prevent employers to discriminate against older less attractive people especially when there are those with much more experience than what I have seen...

vetretreat wrote:

I am afraid I have to disagree with you...I find that the majority of the so called attractive under 30 employees especially women are ill trained and more into themselves then they are at helping the customer..My experience since I have been here most of the average looking and somewhat older employees are more helpful in helping you find what you need and much more knowledgeable...I have seen many young seductive female employees flirting and having conversation with their male counterparts and just look on while customers are needing help with purchases...I personally think this country should pass laws to prevent employers to discriminate against older less attractive people especially when there are those with much more experience than what I have seen...

What I meant was a customer will most likely buy from an attractive person, taking all other things, such as training and skill level, equal. I'm not talking about the attractive marketing agent with less job experience vs. not-so-attractive one with years of product knowledge and experience. I'm talking about two people with the same skill set and level but one is attractive and the other one is not.  And I didn't mention anything about age. I was talking about attractiveness. People can be attractive at any age.

Anyways, my experience is actually opposite of yours.  All of the marketing agents who come to my store who are attractive are also well-skilled, well-dressed, intelligent, very knowledgeable of the products, prices and options, and very motivated. Those who are not have a "yeah, whatever" kind of attitude.

Two guys selling 10" circular saws came to my office at different times. The first guy was selling a well known brand. I told him I didn't need one yet because the ones I have were fairly new. We exchanged business cards, he told me he'll call once in a while to follow up, or I can call him if I need a replacement saw.

The second guy was selling what he said was a well known brand abroad but relatively unknown in the Philippines. I told him I didn't need one yet because I just bought a new one. He said that he'd let me try out the saw for 2 weeks, and if I liked it, I can buy it if I wanted, and if not, there'll be no questions asked. He was very confident, without being arrogant. Next time he came back, I issued him a check for the saw and also for a box of hacksaw blades, with which he gave me a handle for free. He asked for suggestions. I said we needed 12" saws. He asked for pledges, was able to meet the manufacturer's very high quota in a short amount of time, and now I have my 12" 80-teeth circular saw. I bought 2 more hacksaw handles, and I have a pending order for 12" 120-teeth.

The attractive guy was the 2nd one. He's probably in his mid-20's. In fairness to the first guy, the second guy's saws were excellent. But I would not have bought them if he didn't do his best to convince me.