Bank Accounts dont get any easier with an ID!

Couldn't agree with you more toon, it's unbelievable how the requirements for opening a bank account, change from branch to branch and from different individuals

am not so sure it is illegal Byron - as the your europe pages would suggest otherwise

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/sh … dex_en.htm

mantonas wrote:

Couldn't agree with you more toon, it's unbelievable how the requirements for opening a bank account, change from branch to branch and from different individuals

sadly its a fact that requirements change from bank to bank and even branch to branch and worse again from individual staff member to individual staff member - the secret would seem to be to try all the banks and spot the loopholes in their thinking. like you did.

I dont think its illegal what they're doing - maybe not very helpful and many obstacles would seem to be put in the way....

@Byron49: I don't think submitting a petition is the right way to go about it. From a URL posted earlier in the thread:

  http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/sh … dex_en.htm

It recommends talking to the "EU's out-of-court complaints network for financial services":

  http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/fin … dex_en.htm

However, I'm not sure it's actually illegal for them to do this. It says on the page above that a bank's refusal to open an account is "only acceptable if there is sound commercial justification". I think it's arguable that there's a sound commercial justification for requiring the initial deposit and savings account deposits.

Do you have any more information or resources on why you think it's illegal?

Another bluddy petition!!!
A private company can do as it wishes and set its own T&Cs.
I thought we'd stopped all this?

pgl wrote:

@Byron49: I don't think submitting a petition is the right way to go about it. From a URL posted earlier in the thread:

  http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/sh … dex_en.htm

It recommends talking to the "EU's out-of-court complaints network for financial services":

  http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/fin … dex_en.htm

However, I'm not sure it's actually illegal for them to do this. It says on the page above that a bank's refusal to open an account is "only acceptable if there is sound commercial justification". I think it's arguable that there's a sound commercial justification for requiring the initial deposit and savings account deposits.

Do you have any more information or resources on why you think it's illegal?

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pgl,

Given that there is no objective evidence to suggest that any of these prospective non-Maltese EU / EEA / Swiss resident banking clients are less creditworthy than Maltese nationals, these additional impositions cannot be the result of ‘sound commercial justifications’.

However, the banks impose these additional conditions only on non-Maltese clients precisely because they are non-Maltese.

That is illegal.

If you want the Maltese authorities to change the law of their own volition, it will take decades - if ever.

Note:

‘….This refusal is only acceptable if there is sound commercial justification.

Banks must not discriminate against any EU citizens on the basis of nationality.’

Source: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/sh … dex_en.htm

Prove your assertions Byron. Whoops!! I forgot, no politics. OK?

Red - do you really think that if a maltese person and a non maltese person approached a bank with identical requirements they would both be required to provide the same documentation and deposits etc..... one would be refused...... go figure which one.

Without evidence, triangulated, there is no proof.
In the absence of proof there is an unsustainable assertion.

redmik wrote:

Without evidence, triangulated, there is no proof.
In the absence of proof there is an unsustainable assertion.

i guess that throughout history there have been many instances of exactly that but that doesnt mean the assertion is wrong.... it simply means its harder to convince

But to get back on topic - dont you think that a bank who can set its own guidelines should at least practice common rules of acceptance amongst its own branches - which it would seem that they dont if the contributors here and social networking sites are anything to go by.

Byron49 wrote:

Given that there is no objective evidence to suggest that any of these prospective non-Maltese EU / EEA / Swiss resident banking clients are less creditworthy than Maltese nationals, these additional impositions cannot be the result of ‘sound commercial justifications’.

for all we know, HSBC might well have evidence that foreigners are more likely to do a runner than locals

I reopen this thread but please respect our "politics free" policy

thanks

"for all we know" they may not!!!!!

I gave warnings several times, next time I'll close accounts

toonarmy9752 wrote:

"for all we know" they may not!!!!!

Indeed - it would be interesting to know if a Maltese citizen who has been living abroad for, say, the last 20 years, with no family in Malta, would face the same issues if they moved back to Malta.

Julien wrote:

I gave warnings several times, next time I'll close accounts

I'm not sure if that refers to my posts or not, but I dont consider my posts to be political

absolutely - I would love to do a set up on banks much the same as ToM did with pricing in shops..... that would indeed be interesting....

are these personal warnings then - or simply global ones.?

If global that would not be fair - as that that then included all persons whether their posts are deemed political or not.....

dont you think Julien that a personal warning by PM is a better and a more direct course of action, targetting those who YOU think are  being political.. as without that we wouldnt know what is deemed political or not

toonarmy9752 wrote:

are these personal warnings then - or simply global ones.?

If global that would not be fair - as that that then included all persons whether their posts are deemed political or not.....

dont you think Julien that a personal warning by PM is a better and a more direct course of action, targetting those who YOU think are  being political.. as without that we wouldnt know what is deemed political or not

agree - if a line is drawn, please tell us where the line is :-)

By all means draw a line but to respect it we need to be able to see it and understand it.

Byron49 wrote:

Given that there is no objective evidence to suggest that any of these prospective non-Maltese EU / EEA / Swiss resident banking clients are less creditworthy than Maltese nationals, these additional impositions cannot be the result of ‘sound commercial justifications’.

Hi Byron,

I checked with Banif, and apparently all the requirements apply to Maltese nationals as well as everyone else (with the exception of the Foreign ID / Passport). So they're not discriminating, everyone is treated the same.

Has anyone else done the same with the other mainstream banks and have they got it in writing?

Ok guys 3 weeks after the last meeting checked my mail box this morning and a shiny new HSBC cash card was waiting for me and a letter saying my account had been opened.

So although it took a while, a couple of meetings, a couple of phone calls and a large bucket of frustration with a liberal sprinkling of dictatorial smugness, I now have a Maltese current account.

No deposit, no money into a savings account and not having to prove I'm not Libyan.

Result ! oh and I still only used my passport rent form and national insurance number.

Did you have to get a reference letter?

Well done Jay Jay

Hey pgl yes they asked for a reference from my uk HSBC account took 4 days apparently. The rest of the process involved Several Ftiras a gallon of coffee and meetings with cake. ( they didn't finish the cake at the 3rd meeting so called another meeting to decide when they'd finish the cake, while they sent an office intern out to buy a different cake for variety)

Thanks Rainbow! Now where are those forms for my Maltese ID card this should be quick and simple

well done Jay - one battle done another to go...lol good luck

JayJay1970 wrote:

No deposit, no money into a savings account and not having to prove I'm not Libyan.

Congratulations Jay. The reason I asked about the reference is that it was the most difficult part for me - Banif are the only place I've found who don't ask for that (which is why I've been banging on about it). I finally got mine with BOV without a reference, but that was hard work.

Anyway, well done!

Thanks guys

Yes pg that was the bit they really decide your fate upon I don't know what the reference should say or how positive it should be, I did catch a glimpse of mine which said something like .....

"My dear Maltese counterpart, Jay has been with us for 20 years and has mostly been overdrawn but smiles a lot. He has a few quid still deposited with us which should be enough to buy some cakes.

We would strongly advise that you do offer him a local account otherwise he is likely to set up a 1 man tent with a small camp fire under the receptionists desk,  which he did indeed do in this very branch  (Sandra our receptionist was rather upset because she had to wear trousers all week and considered herself to have rather lovely pins)

This incident happened when as a student upon opening his first current account we neglected to send him his Jeremy giraffe money box, as we had run out and they had become highly collectible.

Indeed to get rid of him Mr cholmonderley warner (The manager)paid £2000 for a mint condition Jeremy on a fledgling internet auction site called eBay.

This seemed to do the trick and we have rarely been bothered by Jay since.

Kindest regards and best of luck, I would only worry if he enters the bank in a knitted bobble hat and starts singing "come by ah"  Miwiam Wobinson"

Miriam could never roll her arrrs.

So there you are what's the criteria for a pass or fail on your bank reference I couldn't say but a little tenacity goes a long way

JayJay1970 wrote:

Thanks guys

Yes pg that was the bit they really decide your fate upon I don't know what the reference should say or how positive it should be, I did catch a glimpse of mine which said something like ........

Additional info ….

BANIF – If you're opening an account for work.

Banif is happy to open without a deposit.

My wife has just opened one today (took her 20 minutes) – No references needed – Just a passport and an ID Card

If you don’t have an ID CARD – Try them regardless (Their criteria seem to change depending on the branch you go to)

Thanks

SMeddie

just as we thought Smeddie

SMeddie wrote:

Additional info ….

BANIF – If you're opening an account for work.

Banif is happy to open without a deposit.

My wife has just opened one today (took her 20 minutes) – No references needed – Just a passport and an ID Card

If you don’t have an ID CARD – Try them regardless (Their criteria seem to change depending on the branch you go to)

Thanks

SMeddie

Nice to know your misses already got a bank account Meddie
I agree with Meddie and just to add something, as I was with him when Meddie opened his account, sometimes the refusal about opening an acc, it's due the lack of professionalism of the person you get.
At the same Meddie was opening his acc, I spoke with a different woman at Banif and asked if I could also open an account with my Portuguese ID card a references, her quick reply was, "you cannot open a bank acc with that ID card, you'll need a passport". Right...I got pist off with her reply and demanded her to check that info with their back office as I knew for sure, I could.
So, in the end, they did confirmed with the back office and the woman who was dealing with Meddie's application told me I could indeed open a bank acc at Banif with my PT ID card and bank references. But as I was already annoyed with with the 1st assistant's reply, I did not bother to go forward with my application.

This is interesting as I was told that as we already have an account with HSBC, once we get our ID cards, we can add an account and use as global ....... Will have to wait and see.  Thanks for the heads up.

Things must really have tightened up over the years as we came here in mid 2008 and had our accounts and cards with hsbc set up before we arrived... just had to show our passports and lease and hey presto everything on a plate - although later we did have a few issues with HSBC.....

Banif certainly take more than 20 minutes in our case 2 months....cheques seem to take forever to clear too!!

Chardor wrote:

This is interesting as I was told that as we already have an account with HSBC, once we get our ID cards, we can add an account and use as global ....... Will have to wait and see.  Thanks for the heads up.

We have global acct with HSBC and like many others still waiting for ID. In fact, due to my current medical condition and freezing of assets upon my possible incapacity/demise, Lynn opened her own account yesterday to transfer funds immediately. Staff could not have been more understanding or helpful, plus personal contact, should she need it if worst case scenario arises. (PPPPPPP) I recommend this simple course of action as a solution to any couple, just in case.

redmik wrote:

Chardor wrote:

This is interesting as I was told that as we already have an account with HSBC, once we get our ID cards, we can add an account and use as global ....... Will have to wait and see.  Thanks for the heads up.

We have global acct with HSBC and like many others still waiting for ID. In fact, due to my current medical condition and freezing of assets upon my possible incapacity/demise, Lynn opened her own account yesterday to transfer funds immediately. Staff could not have been more understanding or helpful, plus personal contact, should she need it if worst case scenario arises. (PPPPPPP) I recommend this simple course of action as a solution to any couple, just in case.

same applies in case of wills too....