Snowbird's Search for a Winter Home

Hi Utpal,

I think you're going to find it necessary to really revise your budget upward quite a bit if you're looking to be a ' Canadian  Snowbird'. I think you should take a serious look at your criteria and make them much more realistic.

Air fare:  Today the cheapest fare you can find on Air Canada from Toronto Pearson Int'l to Mexico City is $811.00 CAD return and Mexico is only a sub-tropical country. Given inflation and constant increases in aviation fuel taxes, etc., air fares are going to continue to rise; the only question that remains will be just how much. $700 CAD probably won't get you to Atlanta, Georgia let alone a tropical or sub-tropical country post 2018.

Land prices, I don't think that even in a third world country like Honduras or Guatamala you're going to even find a 3 - 5 acre tract of rural land in the price range you've quoted. Certainly if you did, you can bet your last 'loonie' that it won't be productive or fertile land. Even here in Brazil you're going to pay way much more than that for rural land.

Property taxes:  I can't speak for other Central and South American countries, but if they're anything at all like Brazil (and I'm sure they are) EVERYTHING is about taxes and EVERYTHING is taxed. I know that in Brazil you'd be hard pressed to find any piece of productive rural land (farmland) that would have a property tax that would be less than $500 CAD per acre. I suspect that it would be equally difficult in most other Latin-American countries too.

Cost of Living: Despite the fact that the 'loonie' is at a high in the foreign currency exchange there's no guarantee that's going to continue. Also conversion rates, transaction fees and government imposed taxes on transfer of funds will considerably reduce the net amount of any transfer to Brazil or any other Lat-Am country. Your $1500 / month could end up being as little as $1000 net. I've lived in Brazil for almost 12 years, and even in small towns here you're going to have a really bare bones lifestyle on what you've projected as a monthly budget, worse still if you're going to have to use some of that to pay rent. I doubt it will be much different in other Lat-Am countries. I've seen my buying power eroded here each year (and I currently live in a small city), I can't see how that would be any different in any Lat-Am country and as each of them experience economic growth that erosion of of buying power will only continue all across the Americas to be sure.

Not trying to offend in any way, so please don't get me wrong, just speaking frankly - It's nice to have a dream to chase after, but it should be a dream that is realistic and one that is achievable or you're just going to see it slip through your fingers. Your figures are way out of line with today's reality I can only imagine how far off the mark they're going to be in 2018.

  Cheers, 
  William James Woodward – Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

wjwoodward wrote:

Hi Utpal,

I think you're going to find it necessary to really revise your budget upward quite a bit if you're looking to be a ' Canadian  Snowbird'. I think you should take a serious look at your criteria and make them much more realistic.

Air fare:  Today the cheapest fare you can find on Air Canada from Toronto Pearson Int'l to Mexico City is $811.00 CAD return and Mexico is only a sub-tropical country. Given inflation and constant increases in aviation fuel taxes, etc., air fares are going to continue to rise; the only question that remains will be just how much. $700 CAD probably won't get you to Atlanta, Georgia let alone a tropical or sub-tropical country post 2018.

Land prices, I don't think that even in a third world country like Honduras or Guatamala you're going to even find a 3 - 5 acre tract of rural land in the price range you've quoted. Certainly if you did, you can bet your last 'loonie' that it won't be productive or fertile land. Even here in Brazil you're going to pay way much more than that for rural land.

Property taxes:  I can't speak for other Central and South American countries, but if they're anything at all like Brazil (and I'm sure they are) EVERYTHING is about taxes and EVERYTHING is taxed. I know that in Brazil you'd be hard pressed to find any piece of productive rural land (farmland) that would have a property tax that would be less than $500 CAD per acre. I suspect that it would be equally difficult in most other Latin-American countries too.

Cost of Living: Despite the fact that the 'loonie' is at a high in the foreign currency exchange there's no guarantee that's going to continue. Also conversion rates, transaction fees and government imposed taxes on transfer of funds will considerably reduce the net amount of any transfer to Brazil or any other Lat-Am country. Your $1500 / month could end up being as little as $1000 net. I've lived in Brazil for almost 12 years, and even in small towns here you're going to have a really bare bones lifestyle on what you've projected as a monthly budget, worse still if you're going to have to use some of that to pay rent. I doubt it will be much different in other Lat-Am countries. I've seen my buying power eroded here each year (and I currently live in a small city), I can't see how that would be any different in any Lat-Am country and as each of them experience economic growth that erosion of of buying power will only continue all across the Americas to be sure.

Not trying to offend in any way, so please don't get me wrong, just speaking frankly - It's nice to have a dream to chase after, but it should be a dream that is realistic and one that is achievable or you're just going to see it slip through your fingers. Your figures are way out of line with today's reality I can only imagine how far off the mark they're going to be in 2018.

[img align=l]http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/flag/t67118.gif[/url]  Cheers,  [img align=r]http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/flag/t67054.gif[/url]
  William James Woodward – Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hello William,
Thank you for sharing the wealth of your knowledge and I admire your candid views. You have got me thinking more and I realized to add some more context around what lifestyle intend. I have revised my original post to reflect our need for minimalist permaculture life post 2020.

From your notes, I reckon being off in my budget especially with the invasive inflation eroding the buying power. I am willing to adjust by learning from  collective wisdom from experienced folks like you.

I would love to pick your brain on Brazil's property cost as well as living expenses range.

I welcome other Latin American and Caribbean expats sharing views and wisdom.

Thank you again William in helping us - the new entrants!

I still vote for Cuba.

I'd expect that from a cigar smoking mama!   LOL

Hugs

Little outdated article from International Living magazine but it gives an idea about land price in some of Lain American countries:

http://internationalliving.com/2011/06/ … k-an-acre/

3 acres land for less than $50k seems feasible...

Cheers,
Pall

Here in Brazil a quick internet check of farmland almost everywhere in the country gave me the following results:

Land area: 3 to 5 hectares

Low Price: R$41.000,00 ($19,462.00 CAD)

High Price: R$95.115,00 ($45,156 CAD)

Nationally the average price for productive farmland is R$9.206,00 per hectare ($4,365.00 CAD per hectare) there are of course price differences between states, with lowest being R$8.200,00 per hectare and highest prices in Mato Grosso up to R$19.023,00 per hectare.

Clearly many of the lowest price parcels of land would probably be less productive and have little in the way of development or structures. More expensive tracts tend to be more productive areas, and may or may not be developed or have structures.

By comparison to interior town suburban land prices for $50,000 +  CAD you could buy a 250 sq. meter unserviced lot and build an extremely simple terracota brick house with two br., livingroom, kitchen and bath something like what is pictured below. Urban property in large cities, you'd probably spend $250,000 CAD or more for a fairly decent 2 br. house, much more still in a desirable neighborhood in a major city.

Regarding your article in International Living Magazine, I'd disregard it totally. If you look at all the bad comments about their reputation and the accuracy of their articles that you'll find on the Ecuador Forum you'll understand why.

wjwoodward wrote:

Here in Brazil a quick internet check of farmland almost everywhere in the country gave me the following results:

Land area: 3 to 5 hectares

Low Price: R$41.000,00 ($19,462.00 CAD)

High Price: R$95.115,00 ($45,156 CAD)

Thank you William for kindly posting the so helpful information.

Afterall Brazil looks quite promising especially the land prices are within range.

By the way, to align our posts, I've converted  prices from per hectare to per acre:
Low Price per acre : $ 7,900 CAD
High price per acre: $ 18,300 CAD

I should bump up the airfare budget to $ 1,000 roundtrip.

I would do some more research on property tax in Brazil and post here.

Thank you again William,
Pall

No problem, just don't forget that for real estate and airfares you're looking at today's prices.

Those land prices have jumped about 18% over the last couple of years and land continues to appreciate in value every year.

Airfares, well what can I say? If I were able to predict what's going to happen to airfares over the next few years (other than just say increase) I'd rush out an pick the numbers in the local lottery.

  Cheers, 
  William James Woodward – Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Check out Belize too. But do it quickly - a lot of these Latin American countries have already been discovered and inflation has taken affect. Panama used to be an excellent place to live and truthfully still is - It is like a mini-Miami. However it once had prices much less than Miami but now prices that are sometimes more expensive than Miami. Belize has a huge advertising campaign right now in the United States, so it won't be cheap much longer.

Colombia is a great country too. You just need to get past all the stereotypes, and obviously pick a place that is safe (generally LARGE tourist cities) i.e. Bogotá, Barranquilla, Cartagena, etc. I have lived in Colombia before and spent many vacations there. I lived like a king and felt very safe. Some will tell you differently - but make the decision yourself.

Generally, anything near water will increase prices by as much as 250-300% (look at Mexico - Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Rosarito).

Stay away from Ecuador - reiterating, look at the posts that circulate the forum on this site.

And Brazil, visit before you buy





Matt V. - Manaus, Amazonas, Brasil
Visit my Personal Blog - brazilbs.blogspot.com

In Brazil property is taxed in different ways. Rural Land Tax (Impostos Territorial Rural - ITR) these are 6 fixed incrimental percentage rates based on land area up to a maximum of 0.45 to 20% for land parcels above 5000 hectares depending on the degree of utilization of that land. The greater the land utilization the less the percentage of tax.

Urban property is taxed differently (Imposto Predial e Territorial Urbano - IPTU) which is determined by the individual municipalities and is based on the municipal evaluation of the market value of the property. Not all municipalities charge IPTU on every property, each one sets their own rules and rates.

  Cheers, 
  William James Woodward – Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team