In a relationship with different languages

I'd be delirious with joy if they could learn to (1) take two extra steps to throw the litter in the bin instead of just letting go of it (2) remembering that when they approached a door, it was closed, and thinking that maybe, just maybe, there was a reason for it being closed, and to restore it to that condition and (3) figure out that not everyone likes to have cigarette smoke blowing in their faces.

They can do excellent work when they care to.  Our furniture speaks plainly to that.  The plumbing in the house, not so much.

ChrisFox wrote:

...(3) figure out that not everyone likes to have cigarette smoke blowing in their faces.
....

Here's a public education campaign you can do fairly cheap - no need to buy air time on the television.

When someone smokes near you, start choking yourself.  Cough like crazy as if you're about to die.  They'll ask you what's the problem and you can tell them you have asthma and can't inhale cigarette smoke. 

This is the indirect communication style works real well and is favored by the Vietnamese.  The direct/confrontational American style, "Hey man, quit blowing that sht in my face - go smoke outside" works well in America but here, the violator will get embarrassed, then pissed off and will go out to slash your motorbike tires instead of facing off with you.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

...(3) figure out that not everyone likes to have cigarette smoke blowing in their faces.
....

Here's a public education campaign you can do fairly cheap - no need to buy air time on the television.

When someone smokes near you, start choking yourself.  Cough like crazy as if you're about to die.  They'll ask you what's the problem and you can tell them you have asthma and can't inhale cigarette smoke. 

This is the indirect communication style works real well and is favored by the Vietnamese.  The direct/confrontational American style, "Hey man, quit blowing that sht in my face - go smoke outside" works well in America but here, the violator will get embarrassed, then pissed off and will go out to slash your motorbike tires instead of facing off with you.

I could just imagine a VN doing that. ( but would probably have a friend help him ).
  I got quite a shock one day when the wife turned around and told the man behind her to stop smoking, even more amazing, he did, I think the wife wasn't the only one being annoyed by his smoke though.

I just get get up and leave.  I get severe headaches  from that smoke and even if I didn't it smells horrid and congests my nose.  There's no point making a scene though I don't try to conceal my disgust at the rudeness. 

It's like the USA pre-1974; that was when we learned about cancer from second-hand smoke.  Prior to that anyone who disliked tobacco smoke was regarded as some kind of kook.  By then I had just figured out why I'd had headaches most of my life.  Nobody here has any inkling that it's rude, or that some people might not like it. 

Losing your business, though, that they understand.

ChrisFox wrote:

I just get get up and leave.  I get severe headaches  from that smoke and even if I didn't it smells horrid and congests my nose.  There's no point making a scene though I don't try to conceal my disgust at the rudeness. 

It's like the USA pre-1974; that was when we learned about cancer from second-hand smoke.  Prior to that anyone who disliked tobacco smoke was regarded as some kind of kook.  By then I had just figured out why I'd had headaches most of my life.  Nobody here has any inkling that it's rude, or that some people might not like it. 

Losing your business, though, that they understand.

I had a mate trying to give up, he started smoking those low nicotine cigs, even worse , smell like burning paper, ( same around here most night when they burn paper stuff for the Buddha ), I thought I'd overcome the problem by fitting electric windows in my ute, but soon found out by only winding down my window , I got ALL the smoke, so would wind his down and then lock it with my controls.

What was this thread about again? All I know is after reading the last couple of pages I'm starting to feel depressed.

I'll bet you two are a real hit at parties lol...

Nam_ wrote:

What was this thread about again? All I know is after reading the last couple of pages I'm starting to feel depressed.

I'll bet you two are a real hit at parties lol...

So stop reading the thread.  Go read my storm warning thread for a quick high.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

So stop reading the thread.  Go read my storm warning thread for a quick high.

okay I'll check it out...this storm seems to be a big dissapointment so far but I just heard from someone in the Mekong Delta region that it was worth sending people home there so who knows maybe it's still on it's way?

Nam_ wrote:

What was this thread about again? All I know is after reading the last couple of pages I'm starting to feel depressed.

I'll bet you two are a real hit at parties lol...

Are you just jealous your name isn't Chris as well, feeling left out are we?

Well we could always talk about bummer relationships and really work up some depression.

I'm game!

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

"ass kissing"

Serious and curious, my boss usually uses "ass licking" - guess it the same meaning... just tried to google to see which is the "often using word" but all link to porn movies...

Can anyone answer? Thanks.

At any moment there is going to be a moderator admonition and a deleted post

..

ChrisFox wrote:

At any moment there is going to be a moderator admonition and a deleted post

Good idea.  The question (and answer) should be done via PM.  I'll retract my post and PM aibiet150204.

To try and help bring us back on topic, my wife is a native Vietnamese speaker, but also speaks English well, so we speak in English. When we first started dating, we communicated 100% in English because the only thing I knew in Vietnamese was "Em dep lam" (that's how I convinced her to date me). Since then we have gotten married and our conversations have shifted to about 99% English with 1% of Vinglish thrown in. My Vietnamese has progressed with our relationship, so although we normally speak 99% English, we will speak in Vietnamese if it is a simple conversation and we don't want everyone around us to understand, or if I want to say something dirty to her in the middle of a restaurant without people complaining.

aibiet150204 wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

"ass kissing"

Serious and curious, my boss usually uses "ass licking" - guess it the same meaning... just tried to google to see which is the "often using word" but all link to porn movies...

Can anyone answer? Thanks.

Was any of the porn any good? Gotta be careful with that internet porn stuff, can really run your battery down.

might get a virus too watching too much of that stuff and no I'm not talking about the STD stuff

Hi all.. Seems like you guys been a bit off topic here .. can we get back to the initial topic please!

Back on topic, in Saigon with my girl.  Spoke over breakfast with a couple about relationships.  My girl does not speak English above a few words. We talked about how the lack of communication was good. I am never interupted by that "we need to talk" while watching tv. We enjoy doing for each other. If we ever get tp the point where we can have a long conversation our relationship would proably end.

ancientpathos wrote:

Back on topic, in Saigon with my girl.  Spoke over breakfast with a couple about relationships.  My girl does not speak English above a few words. We talked about how the lack of communication was good. I am never interupted by that "we need to talk" while watching tv. We enjoy doing for each other. If we ever get tp the point where we can have a long conversation our relationship would proably end.

Interesting relationship you have there that doesn't involve communication.  So, you're ultra rich and she's ultra hot looking?

ancientpathos wrote:

Back on topic, in Saigon with my girl.  Spoke over breakfast with a couple about relationships.  My girl does not speak English above a few words. We talked about how the lack of communication was good. I am never interupted by that "we need to talk" while watching tv. We enjoy doing for each other. If we ever get tp the point where we can have a long conversation our relationship would proably end.

I think you bring up a valid point and are striking closer to home then you may have intended. Without communication the relationship has no chance of evolving. I went thru the stage of practically no communication with my current gf. I also value my avoidance of "we need to talk" however I really wanted to get to know her so I sent her for English lessons. Now the phase is that we talk but she misunderstands some things I say and her vocabulary is limited. Plus she welcomes my constructive criticism. However sometimes I wish she would just be quiet and look pretty. I value her individualism and hope she continues to learn english so that we can more readily understand each other.

ancientpathos wrote:

Back on topic, in Saigon with my girl.  Spoke over breakfast with a couple about relationships.  My girl does not speak English above a few words. We talked about how the lack of communication was good. I am never interupted by that "we need to talk" while watching tv. We enjoy doing for each other. If we ever get tp the point where we can have a long conversation our relationship would proably end.

Seem I have to dig out this topic... I just spent half day with a 6 year old boy whose father is Spanish and mother is Vietnamese.  It was real amazement when seeing that very cute boy switch from Vietnamese to English then to Spanish very quickly.  The thing is, he told me that her mother cannot speak a word of English or Spanish and his father cannot speak Vietnamese.  I asked him how his parent can communicate with his mother and he told me everytime any of them needs anything, they go to talk to the maid... well, it's very good to have a translator, but how a marriage is supposed to continue without communication???

I am talking about a marriage when people committed their rest of life to each other.  Or I just think that much important when people can be easy going to divorce/separate when they get bored of each other?  Or I really missed something here?  Or am I just a girl who love talking too much???

I just cannot understand how a marriage is supposed to go long without communicating? Yes, when you are in a relationship, communication can be built up slowly by trying to learn a common language or other language... But after getting married, is it possible?

I am curious and would like to ask if anyone here has a relationship and getting into a marriage more than 5 years without communicating each other???

I just cannot understand how a marriage is supposed to go long without communicating? Yes, when you are in a relationship, communication can be built up slowly by trying to learn a common language or other language... But after getting married, is it possible?

Aibiet, my 2 dongs worth. Marriages and other partnerships between two economically unequal partners can go on for quite a long while, especially if that inequality is a basis of the partnership. In the U.S., the wives in such marriages are often termed 'trophy wives' and 'barbie dolls'. And such women exist in all cultures.

In Vietnam, are not the majority of 'Vo Be's' younger women from a lower socio-economic position than the male? Of course, Vietnamese couples can converse more readily than foreigner-Vietnamese matches, but the male is still in charge of the relationship as long as he controls the purse strings.

Sometimes I wonder is that is not the real reason certain societies resist modernization and the economic emancipation of women.

Galadriel wrote:

"... It began with the forging of the Great Rings. Three were given to the Elves, immortal, wisest and fairest of all beings. Seven to the Dwarf lords, great miners and craftsmen of the mountain halls. And nine, nine rings were gifted to the race of men, who, above all else, desire power"

Hector Salamanca wrote:

*ding*

lirelou wrote:

In Vietnam, are not the majority of 'Vo Be's' younger women from a lower socio-economic position than the male? Of course, Vietnamese couples can converse more readily than foreigner-Vietnamese matches, but the male is still in charge of the relationship as long as he controls the purse strings..

Thanks for sharing, Lirelou. I thought when we are into a relationship, we are looking for at least "1 common thing" in the soul. So, how you can share such common thing without communicating? If it's only about "economic situation", does it mean when you have "money" you can read other mind/soul?!? I am confused...

Aibiet, I would suggest that not all communication is verbal, and that couples can start building their relationship on non-verbal communication. But yes, verbal communication for humans is far more effective in building relationships, and often the base for tearing them down. In Vietnam, a secure economic situation has been considered the base element of a successful marriage for a great many generations. And many couples who started marriages decided by their parents based upon economic considerations did end up happy ones.

But that has nothing to do with 'Vo Be's' who are, in essence, concubines. My comment on Vo Be's was meant to underscore that economics and male-female inequality favors males even in partnerships between fully conversant partners. And that is as true outside of Vietnam as within it.

ChrisFox wrote:

One thing about living here that has amazed me again and again is how few westerners even try to learn any Vietnamese.  Sure I expected a few, but I've probably run into more who don't try at all than I have people like me who struggle with it.  Yeah it can be discouraging and some things I wonder if I will ever get right, but I học tập chuyện cần and try to get in a little practice each day. 

"My wife translates for me," It's too hard," "I have a learning disability" ... bah.  I couldn't stand being helpless.

A bit busy so haven't quite read the (excellent and really interesting) thread in its entirety, but I want to weight my thoughts on this and the OP.

In Japan, I found that many of the foreigners I met were actually quite enamored of the culture and had a deep desire to integrate - anecdotally, I saw the majority of web-connected foreigners wanted to learn the language and spoke/understood to a very good degree. There certainly were many though who just had a superficial grasp of the language, citing many of those above issues.

Funny enough, in Vietnam, I find myself becoming one of those. In Japan, I always struggled to assert myself as "one of you." Here, I find myself going "Screw it." (Despite about a year of Vietnamese study and having an okay grasp on some things).

TO talk about relationships on that level, experience has taught me, with all due respect to Pathos, that I couldn't stand being in a relationship with a woman I couldn't talk to.

If I just want sex, I can try my luck at the clubs or something. I think it's important to have someone who challenges you in the sense of encouraging your growth and not merely enabling you all the damn time. Granted, even if you do speak the same language, this is a possibility, but at least you can bring it up and actually address.

A bit scrambled so I may come back and clean this up later.

Lirelou, totally agree with you! And yah, you may have non-verbal or verbal communication. Texting, writing emails, instant messages have brought up a lot of "distance relationship" to an happy-ending.
Well, but sometimes, verbal communication is one of great things you can ever enjoy, specially to woman (Vietnamese people has a sentence say "đàn ông yêu bằng mắt, phụ nữ yêu bằng tai" (men fall in love by eyses, women fall in love by ears - literal translation!), meaning that women love talking and listening I have posted in another thread that hearing someone calls "em ơi" much sweeter than "hey, baby" as a Vietnamese girl. So, I'm still convinced that you need at least "basic" verbal communication to share, to yell and even to shout at each other for... FUN ;)It must be funnier than you sit next to each other and just sending text messages copied from Google translation after searching on the smartphone instead of talking... Tell me if I'm wrong

Tell me if I'm wrong

Au contraire, my esteemed Aibiet, you are quite correct.

However, non-verbal communications include all those little mannerisms and actions that say either: I love you, I like you, I don't really care one way or the other, or I detest you. It is the web that ties verbal communications together. The canvas upon which they are projected.

lirelou wrote:

Tell me if I'm wrong

Au contraire, my esteemed Aibiet, you are quite correct...

Merci pour votre confirmation