Marriage & Separation before permanencia

Hi Nelia,

If you have already had the home visit by the Federal Police for the VIPER Permanent Visa process then the separation should not really effect the application, unless of course your ex-husband is the vindictive type and calls the Federal Police himself.

If you are no longer living at the address given on your VIPER application, you must go to the Federal Police to register a change of address. You'll need two 3X4 photos for the protocolo. By law you are required to register any change of address within 30 days. You will also need come proof of address like a rental contract, utility bill, etc.

If the home visit by the Federal Police has NOT been conducted then you're dead in the water because they must confirm that the couple still exists and is not separated either judicially or "de facto".

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil & Canada Expert, Expat-blog Team

Hello,

I have changed my address at the PF while I was still at the PF in Maceio, I even have a protocolo for that with the new address and I called the Maceio office and they confirmed the São Paulo PF has received it and in the system. I learned that with him anything is possible. The PF has not visited the house yet.

How about the fact of having the Portuguese passport? Can I go that route?

Cheers

nelia1978 wrote:

Hello,

I will tell you a little of what happened to me in the past few months. I came to Brasil and married my long term boyfriend. We met back in Canada many years ago and it was a back and forth relationship. I finally decided to come to brasil to get married also because of family pressure. However, once after we got married, I just could not see myself living and being with him the rest of my life because there was/is so many things he does that I do not agree with. He is a very egoistic person and its all about him all the time. He also is not honest, and every chance he gets tried to step over people. (only figured this out on the day to day living). Needless to say, we are now separated, but i was able to start the process and submit all the documents to the PF, and I have the protocolo with the change of tourist to permanent visa based on marriage. 

I was living in Maceio with him, but currently in Sao Paulo living with my boyfriend (i met him last year while i was still in Canada but only got together after the separation). I must also add that I also have Portuguese passport.  (Canadian and Portuguese) I really need help on how I should proceed, my protocolo extended until May, and before I left Maceio, I transfered my documents to SP.

Any advice would help a great deal.

Thanks,
Nelia

I am in a quasi similar situation. I couldn't tolerate Brazil and the bureaucracy so I abruptly left the country and flipped it the bird upon take off, but I am still legally and happily married to a Brazilian. I plan to fly back before my protocolo expires each and every time, (every 90 days, and the next expiration on March 17) and keep an active phone number and verifiable address by maintaining a fixed phone at a friends house. I also intend to keep my work book active. Once my spouse gets a US Visa he will fly and live here but I am going to try and keep the process going down there in the event, god forbid we need to move back.

I am going to be live in Miami so we could essentially fly back in 5 hours with 2 direct flight options a day. They already called once which I thought was for a home visit but it was just to verify my phone number.

Maybe this could help someone else, who has the money to play the bureaucracy game from outside the country.

Yeah, I am planning on saying that my husband is traveling and keep everything crossed that all goes well.

Unfortunately the Policia Federal won't conduct the interview unless you are both present at the same time, they'll simply ask you to reschedule when your husband gets back from his travels. They have to see that you live together, they'll probably want to see the bedroom closet to make sure there's both men's and women's clothing in it and they may even interview neighbors. It's going to pretty hard to try and put one over on them.

wjwoodward wrote:

Unfortunately the Policia Federal won't conduct the interview unless you are both present at the same time, they'll simply ask you to reschedule when your husband gets back from his travels. They have to see that you live together, they'll probably want to see the bedroom closet to make sure there's both men's and women's clothing in it and they may even interview neighbors. It's going to pretty hard to try and put one over on them.

I know for a fact, the two of you would need to be present, in the house, together at the same time. Traveling will only delay the situation. In my case, his cousin can pretty much arrange everything to be in order within 24 hours so we can pull one over them.

hey,

this week I was looking at the MJ website and I saw this with my protocol number... anyone can fill me in on what exactly this is?

Consulta de Documentos e Processos MJDoc

Número de Protocolo
08230.0085XX/XXXX-XX
Data de Registro
06/12/2013

Localização
CGMA/CDI/DICOM - Protocolo Geral MJ

Interessado(s)
Nome NELIA

Trâmite
Unidade de Origem    Unidade de Destino    Data
CGMA/CDI/DICOM - Protocolo Geral MJ    SNJ/DEEST/DIPE/SPE - Setor de Permanência     06/12/2013 15:33

It is just the registration of your "Pedido de Permanência" in the Ministério da Justiça website.... it means that the Policia Federal have sent it to them and you're now in the queue for your process to be analyzed for a final decision. It may still take some time for any action to be taken, be very patient. I've been waiting over 4 years now and still nothing.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

Ok, its what i thought, however i have not vêem visited by the PF yet. Will they still be passing by?

Cheers

Absolutely, the home visit is always part of the process when applying for a VIPER Permanent Visa based on marriage or on having a Brazllian child.... they actually want to see the spouse or the child with their own eyes!!!

Cheers

Hi Nelia, just came across your post today and I thought very interesting as I am going through a similar situation myself currently. I hope in the time between these threads you have been able to sort something out. I was hoping that someone on this thread may be able to shed some light on my situation.

In my case I moved from the UK to Brasil to get married to my Brasilian girlfriend a year ago, we had the interviews at the DPF and the police came to visit the place where we were staying to check we were a legitimate couple. Upon "passing" all the tests I was issued with a RNE which has allowed me to start working and making a life in Brasil. On the RNE card I have it reads "pedidio de permanencia". The instructions I was given by the DPF at the time were to keep looking on the Ministerio de Justicia (consulta processos) site to check whether the Pedido de Permanencia had been converted into a full RNE. I was told at the time it would take a year to reach a decision.

A few months ago my wife and I decided to split up. At the time the decision on the website said "pending decision" so I decided we would postpone the divorce until the decision had been converted to final so as not to risk my stay in Brasil.

Today I rechecked the website and it seems that the DPF have now converted it to a full RNE on the basis that I provide a number of documents to them. The main ones being a declaration (signed and notarised by both parties) that we are still together as well as certain pieces of ID from my wife's side. As our breakup was not on the most amicable terms I find myself in a tricky situation. Also what does not help is the fact that she is living in Australia at the moment.

As I am very much comfortable (and happy) with my life in Brasil I am very eager to find a solution that will allow me to continue living, working and contributing to Brasilian society. Does anyone have any suggestions? If I were to do nothing would this eventually catch up with me?

Hi Jamie_Brasil,

What you've been asked for is a "Declaração Sob Pena de Lei" that you are not separated either judicially or de facto, which is something that you simply CANNOT declare in your present situation. The result of making a false declaration is not only a stint in a Brazilian jail plus a substantial fine, but also immediate deportation upon release. This will surely be characterized as Immigration Fraud and the Federal Police take it very seriously. They will make every possible effort to investigate the truth of the declaration, so you certainly could not sign such a declaration now, it is a crime to do so.

If you read Decreto/Lei 6.815 (Estatuto de Estrangeiro) you will find that really the option of being expelled from the country still exists up to 5 years following the celebration of the marriage, although that is rarely done - it can be! If as you say your separation wasn't amicable there is also the possibility that your ex will try to retaliate if she finds that you want to remain in Brazil, it only takes one phone call from her to dump you right into the middle of a whole world of troubles. Probably more than you ever imagined possible... believe me.

I personally think your present situation is way beyond being "tricky" as you put it. It really is quite an impossible situation in fact. It would have been far less problematic if your VIPER had already been granted BEFORE the physical (de facto) separation had taken place. Even then it would still be tricky. I really don't envy you your position at all.

There are only a few limited options that I can think of to extricate yourself from the nightmare. The first is that if you're already working, especially if you're working for a large multinational, that is willing to assist you in the process you could consult an immigration lawyer, request that he solicit a withdrawal of your VIPER application and apply for transformation to a VITEM-V Work Visa. I think that the Federal Police and Ministry of Justice would probably look favorably at your application given the unfortunate circumstances. They aren't heartless beasts actually. If successful this would at least allow you to remain in Brazil and continue working. It also would give you the option of requesting that the VITEM-V be converted to a VIPER Permanent Visa shortly before the expiry date if you continue to be employed by the company. In this case, the fact that you haven't yet divorced and the likelihood that it might even need to be a judicial divorce might even go in your favor, since you have a right to defend yourself and be represented in court proceedings, that would weigh heavily on the decision since being in the country would permit you to proceed with the divorce; putting you out of the country would greatly disadvantage you in this sense and would surely be grounds for an appeal.

If you need some advice from a highly qualified immigrations lawyer who speaks English fluently I can recommend one that I know well. He won't come cheap, but you'll get your money's worth. If you want to send me a private message I'll give you his contact information. You can at least find out what he thinks about your situation and how much he'll charge for his services. I honestly wouldn't try to do anything, especially by yourself, without sound legal advice if I were you. I've seen too many people here who think they've got it all figured out and do something that only digs the hole they're in much deeper. You don't want to go there - trust me!

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

thanks

There shouldn't be a problem if you're simply waiting for republication. Was there a specific reason you missed the 90 day window in which to apply for the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro and to register for the RNE? That's always a problem.

Didn't the PF give you any kind of idea how long that republication might take? You may want to send an e-mail to the Ministério da Justiça just to check on the progress of republication their e-mail is estrangeiros@mj.gov,br

Don't forget that you also are required to notify the Federal Police of any change in address within 30 days of any move.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, EB Experts Team

thanks

You can leave Brazil and re-enter using just your protocolo for periods UP TO 90 days, longer than that your permanency gets cancelled and you have to start all over again. Once you've actually got the Cédula de Identidade or visa stamp in your passport that says "Registrado como permanente" then you can be out of the country for UP TO 2 YEARS, before your permanency would be cancelled.

One cannot apply for Ordinary Naturalization until they have held their VIPER Permanent Visa for 4 years (not have been in Brazil for 4 years, but actually been granted permanency). If a permanent resident is married to a Brazilian or has a Brazilian child then this period can be reduced to 1 year. All of the requirements must be met, including passing a proficiency test in the Portuguese language.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, EB Experts Team

i am having a similar situation. i have married a brazilian lady almost a year ago. i applied for the permanency. some months after we split up. i went out from her house and was on my own. but i was trying to get things back together. during this time my protocol has expired once. i went to PF to extend it. and i told them we still live together when he asked. i did not mention anything that we are apart. truth was, i was still ''dating'' her and was quite sure she will accept me back. so, that time the PF told me they were about to do a home visit, but something went wrong and the guy could not go. i stayed with a non-emotional face about it. alright, cool. the guy also told me i have to bring someone from neighbors to do a testimony withing a week or two. and got my protocol extended for 3 more months. and we went on. i went back home she went back to hers. few days after my wife received a call that it is the last day when a testimony has to be done! she said that i am at work. then they asked her to come there with a neighbor. she called me and explained the situation and i got out from work the same moment and arrived straight to my ex home. we asked our friend neighbor to help with this. she went out with him to the PF to do this testimony. and it passed. they were joking about being afraid to go to check us out because it is dangerous in our area. and some more basic questions and my ex was told that now we need to wait more. few days later my ex wife finally decided not to go on anymore. gave the last no to me. so we are not together since then anymore not only geographically, but also by any other mean. she is pushing me to go to cartorio for a divorce. luckily (or unluckily) i have broken my foot two months ago. i got a good reason for not going to cartorio. she said she would wait for me to be alright for us both to go and ask for divorce. she is dating another guy for some time already. i am already walking almost okay, but still lying to her that i am all broken still. today, i went to PF again to renew my protocol, because today was the last day. the guy did not ask any questions. just put a stamp for 3 months more and explained that all the process now is in MJ and i just need to wait and they will or will not approve. the consultation on PF website shows that my process is in MJ and responsible person is XXXX. i googled for this name and found out that this person works in MJ setor da permanencia dos estrangeiros and is located in brasilia, df.
my friend who has passed this process already did not have a PF visit at all. they called him that they would show up but never did. and his permanency was accepted. he says that since all process has been sent by pf to mj, their job and all checking and tests are done and now i just need to wait and hope my ex will not fuck me up.
i am wondering, why would PF sent it to MJ in Brasilia all the way from Rio, if they would still do a home visit. also looks like they are done with this. they had my ex wife visiting them with a neighbor. they also saw us together few times in the beginning when i was going there about permanency, while i could not speak the language yet. so, i started to worry less. and actually got happy that it went well today and i was not asked to lie. later on, i found this forum and it made my heart beat like crazy.
any thoughts about the situation? am i really in a deep hole now about this?
i have not notified PF about changing my address. for them, i still live with my ex in her house. seems like she does not want to fuck my life up, but also is not happy about the delay. she is afraid that if suddenly PF will appear, she will go to jail. i tell her that it is all done and we just need to wait a bit more. and the fact that i have broken my foot really helps.
i am as well very comfortable with life here and really like it and having a job and all goes nice and really want to continue here, even i do not have a place to go. i have left my home country 5 years ago and have no idea or will or any imagination about going back or going anywhere else from here. i put my heart and mind here and really want to have a life here. but PF would not care about it at all, of course.
wondering, should I just go on like this and expect the best... or the MJ can order PF to go to check my ex home...? this would definitely mean an end.

Your friend is right, the Federal Police only take the application and check to verify the circumstances. Once the home visit is done (or if they decide for some reason NOT to do it) then they turn it over to the Ministry of Justice in Brasília because it is the MoJ that makes the final decision on your permanency, not the Feds. So now you just have to wait until the visa is granted, you'll need to be patient and keep checking the Ministry of Justice website "Consulta Geral de Processos" to see the progress of your visa application (at the BOTTOM of the following page).

http://www.justica.gov.br/seus-direitos/estrangeiros

Type your protocol number EXACTLY as it appears, with the dots, slash and dash included. If you get back "Registro não encontrado" it means it's not in their computer system yet, so don't worry, it may take some time. Then once it has been entered you'll get back "Aguardando decisão do Chefe" until it has finally been granted (DEFERIDO) and then it will change to "Aguardando Publicação no DOU". Once that happens you can send me a private message or post here again and I will explain how you can begin checking the Imprensa Nacional website to print off the DOU - Diário Oficial da União page your process is published on.

The Ministry of Justice will not conduct any further investigation, they go with what the Federal Police have already provided them. However, if you do get divorced there is a chance that they might find out about that before your application is processed and the visa granted. Then you're sunk. I'd recommend that you talk this over with your wife, explain to her that you will go with her to the Cartório and do the divorce, no hassles and no problem the moment your visa goes through, but that you can't do it before. If need be, offer her some money or something to continue to go along with you until then. Otherwise you just have to go through with the divorce and take your chances that the MoJ won't find out.

thanks for the info, friend.
i am really hoping that it will go through. i will talk to my wife about this as well when she appears. a month ago she told me that she really does not want to fuck me up, but she is worried about her own safety. somehow she has in her mind that she might go to jail if PF suddenly appears. i already tried to explain her that we just need to wait some weeks ago but she has lots of doubts about it. anyway, i am hoping i will go with this well.
MJ website is really almost non-functional. always getting an error when checking my andamento. meanwhile, the PF website shows well. will not write any emails to MJ for not showing my desperation about this.
when something will change, I will let You know here. thanks!

When using the Ministry of Justice website, you should ONLY use Internet Explorer it will not work with other browsers.

The message "Registro não encontrado" is normal, usually means they haven't received the file from the Policia Federal yet, or that they've not entered it into the system.

The message "Aguardando deteriminação da Chefe" is also usual, and can be that way for a long, long time. They move at a snail's pace.

Sorry to jump in and ask ( not wanting to hijack this topic ) but i just had my police visit after 15 months , they told me everything was ok , gave me the paper with the web site details to start checking after 60 days etc , my question is how long ( approximately ) does it take before my permanent  visa will be granted  ?

So Rick, you bought into the BS that 180 days is the process....... welcome to the club. Reality is that the process can take up to 2 years or even longer. You have to have the patience of Job, they take forever and nothing you do will speed the process up. I was in one process for over 4 1/2 years that went absolutely nowhere. Gave up and started another based on having a Brazilian child and even that one took well over a year.

It took 15 months to get this far with the Federal Police, and nothing happens until after the home visit. Now, they pass off your process to the Ministry of Justice and the unending wait starts all over again. If you thought that the wait was bad with the Feds, you'll think they were like Jessie Owens or Carl Lewis compared to the MoJ.

Ok thanks William , i am just happy to have had the police visit done as i thought they had forgotten about me , Also thanks for making it clear about the time i can spend out of Brazil as i thought it was 90 days while my visa was being processed ( i have just been out for 8 weeks and i may need to go again before x mas ) i see now its 90 days  in one trip ( Maximum )  but i can if needed go on more than one trip away , at least thats how i understand it , if thats correct i am happy and thankful for small mercies  .

Yes and don't forget, if you've got one of the old "paper" protocolos with your photo, as opposed to the new one that's stamped into your passport, you've got to keep going back to the Federal Police and get it extended (prorrogação) every 180 days from the date you applied for your VIPER, also you're required to report any change of address to the Federal Police within 30 days of any move.

Yes i have been doing that ( i take note of what you advise people on here ) . After reading what you said last week to someone i checked my passport and i have the official stamp in it from the federal police so do i not need to get my paper slip with my photo on it renewed any more ?

Hi Rick,

Just to confirm. You have the VIPER visa application stamp in your passport that is the same as in the photo (below), right?

If you do then you don't need to go back for the prorrogação every 180 days, the stamp is good until your visa is published in the DOU. You just need to make sure that your VITUR does not expire. I'm talking about the 5 or 10 year validity here, NOT the number of days since the VIPER stamp exempts you from the 180 day per year rule. It does not remove the necessity of having a valid visa however.



Cheers,
wjw

hello! i have some news about my process. the mj website does not work in any matter, using IE, nothing helps. so i keep on checking on pf website. until yesterday it was like this:

NOME:                          XXX XXX
PROTOCOLO:             XXXX
GMP:                            XXXX
DATA:                           11/06/2014
HORA:                          12:03
RECEBIMENTO:           NÃO CONFIRMADO
DESTINO:                     DPE/MJ
RESPONSÁVEL:           XX XX XX XX XX

few days ago i have checked it and was all the same only destino was different cant remember what exactly.
and now today i checked it and it has this:

NOME:                          XXX XXX
PROTOCOLO:             XXXX
GMP:                            XXXX
DATA:                           05/09/2014
HORA:                          11:35
RECEBIMENTO:           CONFIRMADO EM 05/09/2014
DESTINO:                     DICRE/CGPI
RESPONSÁVEL:           XX XX XX
DESPACHO:                 

looks like some nice changes. unfortunately i cannot check mj website on any ie or so. just not working anything.
now i only hope my ex not to become very puta with me and not to ruin it all. ha. risky. but worth it. are those the good news about my visa process? my friend, the same who passed it, says it is confirmed now and the telegram has to arrive to my ex house and i have to print some paper out, like you mentioned before. any thoughts i would appreciate very well. have a great afternoon cheers.

Hello donatasd_4321,

Well, the good news is that the second message "confirmado em 05/09/2014" means that it's now with the Ministry of Justice and entered in their database as of that date.

Now you need to wait for them to get around to making a decision to grant the visa. The Ministry of Justice website does work, I don't know what you're doing wrong, but it really does work.

They no longer send out any telegram or registered letter, you have to keep track on the Ministry of Justice website and when it says "Aguardando publicação no DOU" then you need to start checking for the Diário Oficial da União website to find out when it is published. You may have to check through several pages for several days in a row until it gets published. Their website is -  www.in.gov.br

If you're having difficulty using the Ministry of Justice website send me a private message and I'll help you with the search.