Moving to Ecuador from Canada

Barbara you can find current pensioner visa requirements at:
cancilleria.gob.ec/annuitant-visa-9-i-foreign-pension /? lang=eng

If you have further questions feel free to contact me fisherjohn8@gmail.com
Also my website, www.3dayspanish.com

Hi, Mike!
I only have a short form of my birth certificate as the long form you refer to was lost at the bottom of the Glenmore Reservoir some years ago in a boating mishap. Therefore the province issued me a short plastic version.
My divorce certificate is with me but the marriage certificate --I don't have. I don't as yet have a criminal check prepared. Also, I don't think I will have any problem getting my pension proof papers. Its just a written request--right?
So--there might be issues with the Birth Certificate and marriage certificate--right?

Thanks, John!
Will send e-mail.

The birth certificate I am referring to has nothing to do with the little plastic version you carry around with you. You must apply online in the province where you were born and pay x amount of dollars and have them send you an official long form birth certificate.

If you have proof of divorce you might not need the marriage certificate. That I do not know. The best thing for you to do is go to the Ministerio de Migracion and ask to make sure. Do not depend on their website to be correct.

Hi Barb:   Glad you made it back and forth to Canada.  I just received the Permanent Residence Visa and the Cedula, which is all important. The I.D. card,  everybody HAS to have here, to open a Bank account, to get Health Insurance, and so, so much more.  I am here now for almost a year and I still love it. I have some really cool new acquaintances, and a wonderful man in my life  My Spanish is still pretty awful, but I am trying, and people seem to really appreciate that. I often get help in English. Just went to a dentist who spoke English well.

I went through an absolute nightmare and lost a lot of money, trying to get that Visa. The list of required documents was given to me, only, when I finally showed up at the Ministerio with a lawyer, who did an American friend a favour, by accompanying me there and translating. Every time I went to that place, they asked for another document, one at a time and it cost me a fortune to have my son run around in Toronto and then send everything to me via Western Union, because my 6 mos. visiting visa was running out. Time just flew by.  They even have that list in English, but they still wanted something more from the Ecuadorian Consulate in Toronto.  Finally, everything was accepted, but only after another acquaintance had her husband call somebody at the Ministerio, who promised to help me out. I did not sleep for many, many nights.  If I had known, it was going to be this nerve-wrecking, I would  have tried to do it all in Canada. But the Ec. Consulate in Toronto said I would have 8 mos. here and could have my son send all the documents to me, it wasn't going to be any problem.  Bad advice.  They were mostly concerned with my Pension statements, which I had already given them, and they wanted more. Then I had to get TWO police clearance records, because it cannot be more than a month or two old.  All these rules and regulations, that NOBODY tells you right away, unless you have thousands of dollars for a lawyer, who knows all the ins and outs and does it all for you.

I was lucky to know a few people, who helped me along the way, with all the letters I had to write to various people in the government [one of the requirements in Spanish], my Notario likes Canadians, so I got a break with the price there, and the translator was excellent, but charged more than others.   If you can afford a lawyer, and you have all your documents, you might not have any problems.  It is all about money here. I don't know, if I will ever get used to that. But the people I have befriended  are very nice.  Are you in Cuenca?   

I went to visit a town in the Province of Bolivar and I really liked it there, I am totally into the mountains. The people are different there, much more down to earth and not so uppity.  Here, where I live, just outside of Samborondon near LaJoya, people are prejudiced and discriminate against the poor. That is not my style.    Let me know, how you are doing.   Wishing you all the very best, I remain with kind regards,  "Amber"

Barbara:  I forgot to tell you, that once you let the Canadian Pension people know, that you live here now, they want 30% of the pension. I pay 15% now,  and haven't heard anything back from them yet.   Perhaps you knew this already, but there are always more surprises in store for us, just around the corner.  The Can. government also has the right to cancel our Pension at any time before we turn 70.  I don't know, what I would do, without that income. Finding a job at this stage in my life is almost impossible, and I will be 70 at the beginning of next year.  Since my accident in January of this year, I also have a permanent back injury, inoperable, but I try to just ignore the pain. I even stopped taking the meds and just keep on trucking regardless. That kind of determination helps me cope with just about anything coming my way.     I was also told, getting married to a foreign person here, will cancel the Pension payments automatically. I don't know, if this is really true, but when I called Toronto and Ottawa, that's what I was told.  There are a lot of things, we only find out, once we are here.   The InterNation meetings are always very informative, too,  once a month.  If I can be of any assistance by writing,  let me know.   Greetings, "Amber"

As a Canadian, it was different with the documents, than it is for Americans. I did not need a birth certificate, nor a marriage licence or divorce papers.  The most important papers were the Pension certification and the Police Clearance. The rest of all the documents they asked for one at a time, were a Police Clearance from here, which could only be 3 weeks old, letters in Spanish to various people in the gov. in Quito,  every single document translated into Spanish HERE, everything notarized in Canada and here, photo-copies of everything, Cedula and verification from the Translator, and so on and so on. It just never seemed to end.  It all took the whole 6 mos. that I had the extended visitors visa for.

Oh Amber ... I am so happy to hear the process is over for you!  Congrats.  Getting to EC is still a bit over a year away for me ... but I will get there!   

Jo Anne in Wichita

You do need a long form birth certificate to get your Empadronimiento which is required to get your cedula and that is a fact as of one month ago when I got mine.

thank you -  I am certainly very relieved to have this all done and over with. Now I can concentrate on where I want to live for the next few years.

HI, Amber!
Thanks so much for your nice long email and I read with interest your trials and tribulations getting your visa sorted out. That is one reason I think it is better to do it in Canada and for that reason--I was planning to return there in the spring. However, having read some recent posts on this topic--it might be do-able here. Yet, I think a trip back once again is warranted especially of I can get the same great rate I had this last time. Luckily, I do have good friends there who put me up and I enjoy my visits with them and other friends I have there. Then--my plan is to get to New Zealand where I have family--next Christmas 2015.
I have had a tough time of late but at last have found a house I love and where I think I will be for quite a long time. Thereby freeing up some funds and time to get the legal stuff done.
Yes, I am here in Cuenca and I do enjoy the city but am looking forward to getting out of town and enjoying the Cajas and more. Sooooonnnnn!!Stay in touch!

By the way--I too am happy for you!! and that all is now behind you. I guess I better get started on mine once I have moved and am settled in to my new digs. Do you know if the pension issue you mention is applicable if you still have a Canadian address? Because I do have a home there in Calgary.

Some of us not familiar with the Cuenca area had to go to wikipedia to track down Barbara's reference to "getting out of town and enjoying the Cajas..."

Cuencanos will recognise it as a national park, Parque Nacional El Cajas, which park offers 270 lakes and lagoons and "tundra vegetation on a jagged landscape of hills and valleys."  The location is about 20 miles west of the city.

Cajas is from cassas, the Quichua word for "gateway to snowy mountains."  The park is the source of 60 percent of Cuenca's drinking water.

cccmedia, Quito

Hi Barbara:  thanks for your reply.  I finally managed to get myself a bank account here, which required the permanent visa in my passport, the Cedula  and a Letter of Recommendation from someone I have known here for 2 years. Slightly impossible, when you are only here for a year.  Then again, one could have met that person in another place long ago. So, I went with my young friend and I got an account at his bank, and did not need the Letter.    Next hurdle:  the Health Insurance. Most of them, if they even accept you [a foreigner] after 65, end at the age of 70. Even the IESS from the government, that accepts foreigners now, and retired peeps, only covers you until 70.  I am turning 70 in February. aaarrrggghhh. Not only is that no pure joy, I am having a hard time finding Health Insurance that will cover me afterwards. Incredible! Just when you might need it most, it is no longer available, or at a cost I cannot afford.  My lady friend in Quito tried to help me out as much as possible with the search on the Internet, and found one that has an office here in Guayaquil. They have everything in English and Spanish, which will help me, too. My Spanish is still disgustingly bad.  Of course, this weekend they "rolled up the sidewalks" and many places are closed, most likely even Monday still.
I have a wonderful lady friend here, who will be able to help me out, getting me enrolled hopefully by the end of this week. I have been without health insurance for 6 mos. now  and it feels kind of eerie at my age. So far, so good. I hope, you can find something suitable in Cuenca, and if you are under 65, you might not have the same problem, I am encountering.  Take care and be well,  Amber

I still have an address in Toronto.  My house in another city is lost. The renters have not paid for 10 mos. and the Bank is taking the house back to sell it.  I was unable to sell it, while I was still in Canada last year and gave it over to my daughter to rent out. She tried 3 times unsuccessfully to evict those scumbags, who are apparently allowed by the government to be Squatters for years, without ever paying rent anywhere. They were able to have the Condo Management vouch for them, paid once - and that was it. The Condo folks put a lien against the house after 6 mos. My daughter does not live anywhere near, and was unable to travel back and forth. She was also not willing to fight the case in court. It is all on the owner. Renters are totally protected in Canada.  Another thing, I did not think was a great idea by the government, but then again, I did not vote for them...   I hate to lose the house, and many of my things that are still in it, but it is only material stuff for the most part. I think my kids took my personal belonging, at least part of them, out.  One can replace the furniture, the clothes and other items eventually. Perhaps even the car, if I feel like it and have the money. I cannot let myself grieve over the loss of the house, since I did not like the area I was living in that much any more and felt no remorse, when I left.  I was convinced, that my daughter would take care of things, because she begged me to give her the house. Ah, well.  Such is life.  I am happy here, and try not to live in the past, except for the good memories of years gone by.    I am just having such a hard time learning Spanish, that it is frustrating at times. Yet I speak fluently German [mother tongue] and write it, English, and a fairly decent French. But I learnt English and French at a very young age, and that seems to make all the difference in the world. Now I am lucky to remember, what I did last week, never mind the intricacies of Spanish. LOL   Once of these days, I will make my way to Cuenca. If I do, I will let you know and we could perhaps meet for Lunch.   Kind regards, Amber

Hi Jo Ann:  thanks for your nice reply.  Yes, I am happy here, and now, I am busy trying to sort other important things out as well. Like getting a bank account here, which I somehow managed. And now the all important Health Insurance. That seems to be another real challenge, another hurdle.  The government IESS health insurance is pathetic, although they now let foreigners in, but it all ends at the age of 70, like a few others. Most of the places don't accept your application after 65.  I will be 70 in February and I have been without any insurance for 6 mos. already. Scary.  There is one called   tecnsiguros.com.ec/segurosterseraedad for retirees in Quito and in Guayaquil, but who knows, how much it will cost per mo., and for how long it will last.  I will find out next week.  For some strange reason, I had not thought about the possibility of being excluded from health care at my age. I should have known. What do they expect you do? Stop the world and have them push you off in to Space?  Or, like the Natives in northern Canada, put you on an ice float and push you out to Sea. How about sitting you in a wooden boat, light it on fire and let you sail off into the sunset in the Pacific Ocean, like the Hawaiians used to do?  Here, I could go to the Highlands and jump off of a mountain, I guess. I am somewhat discouraged, as you can imagine. I just do not have the income, to cover any accident or surgery by myself. Other than that, I have been trying to concentrate on Spanish, but these slightly upsetting circumstances, seem to make it harder on me to learn this language.  Are you still planning on moving here?  Forget Guayaquil, it is too big. Cuenca or Quito would most likely be more to your liking.  Actually, I recently went to a small town in the Province of Bolivar, called Chillanes, and I loved it there. Only 20,000 peeps, but really nice,  -  in the mountains. I am planning to move there next year at some time, together with the young fellow I live with now. Things might just work out after all.  Kind regards,  Amber

Amber, what a terrible series of events for you. I really am sorry that at this time of life things are so difficult. But you seem to be finding your way somehow?

I don't understand about the gov't health insurance, it ceases at the age of 70? I've never heard such a thing before that old people are dumped off of the national health plan? What?

Could you go into more detail about that? I can't wrap my head around it. It makes no sense.

Amber Fenton wrote:

"The government IESS health insurance is pathetic, although they now let foreigners in, but it all ends at the age of 70....I will be 70 in February and I have been without any insurance for 6 mos. already. Scary....What do they expect you do? Stop the world and have them push you off in to Space?  Or, like the Natives in northern Canada, put you on an ice float and push you out to Sea."

These hyperbolic scenarios are not based in fact.

The Ecuadorian government does not kick IESS health insurance participants off the rolls on their 70th birthday.

"Ecuador has invested heavily in public health following the adoption of a new Constitution in 2008 that mandates health care services for all citisens and residents." (Huffington Post online, 1-15-2014, updated 3-17-14)

Specifically, the 2008 Ecuadorian Constitution states: 

"Health is a right guaranteed by the State...

"No one shall be discriminated against for reasons of ethnic belonging, place of birth, age (or) health status.  All forms of discrimination are punishable by law...

"Elderly persons and those who suffer from disastrous or highly complex diseases shall receive priority and specialised care in the public and private sectors....

"The State shall give elderly persons...specialised health care free of charge as well as access to free medicines."

There is no mention of the alleged removal from health care access of persons age 70 or older.

Absent any proof for their allegation, any persons on this blog stating that age is a cause for removal by the EC government from IESS health care access are needlessly causing fear and unnecessary concern among expat-blog readers (e.g., Gardner's post).

Excerpts from the Ecuadorian Constitution above are courtesy of the Political Database of the Americas, which provides multi-lingual translations of major public documents:  pdba.georgetown.edu

cccmedia,

Thank you so much for setting the healthcare stories straight.  I was planning to, but you beat me to it, and you did a better job than I could have anyway.  I wish people would do research before getting hysterical about these subjects.

Mary

Amber, did IESS cut you off once you had turned 70?

If they did and you cannot find an alternate you can consider this info which I found on a blog some time ago.

Anos Dorado is the only regular health insurance you can get if 65 or older.

I have Anos Dorados, which I was limited to because of my age when I applied. 20% deductible and I must receive my services from Santa Inez Hospital. There is a $5K limit per incidence, which will increase to $8K after one year. The premium is just over $100 per month.

Anos Dorados. Female Age 67: Domestic private insurer $8,000 annual benefit, Co-Pay 20%, $1,320 annual premium.

Anos Dorados, annual premium $1,320. Max benefit per incident $5,000. Additional coverage: critical illness $3,000, hospital fees network 80%, room and daily food 80%, ambulatory care network 100%, basic dental plan 100%, intensive care 80%, laboratory 100%, generic medicines 100%, frames $20, life insurance $1,500, medical expenses for accidents $500.

Anos Dorado for me and Salud Punto for my wife (under 65): $110 me, $95 wife.

Golden Years (Anos Dorados), Ecuadorian Segura Media. Works for my diabetes. $110 per month.

thank you so very much for this information.  I was getting scared. I wonder, how many single peeps know about this problem, finding health insurance after 65.  Maybe not too many women come here alone at the age of 68.  I was insured through a private deal in Canada for my flight plus extra coverage from November 2013 until April 2014, at the cost of $800.  Never used any of it, though.  Now, I am in Ecuador for 11 mos. already, and I just received my permanent resident visa and my Cedula in September.  I managed to get a bank account, and now I started looking for Health Insurance. I will be 70 in February, and it just started looking really bleak, after trying six different health ins. companies, with no success. They all had the clause, that either you could not even sign up with them after 65,  and/or after 70 the coverage stops. I don't think, most people are even aware of this. Even Cigna International had that written in there. I think, that if you sign on with them, before you turn 65, you might be able to stay on with them, but things turn ugly, if you are already 65 -  or like me, 69.   I don't know, why I never gave this a second thought before. I had too many other things going on for too long.  I have had only two ops  all my life, and twice in the hospital for a day or two, having my babies 40 years ago.    I currently reside in Guayaquil, in one of the far off suburbs.  Love the mountains more.    Thanks again for helping me out. I really appreciate your effort. Always nice to know, that there are some really cool peeps out there.   Kind regards,  Amber

Mike asked Amber if "IESS cut you off once you had turned 70..."

Mike, since Amber is not yet 70, the short answer to your query is: no.

Notwithstanding the citations from the EC Constitution in my previous post, Amber still seems to be under the impression that IESS would deny her health coverage based on her age (69).

Mike, thank you for your detailed report on what Anos Dorados health insurance offers to seniors.

My girlfriend works in administration at the IESS Hospital and says the information provided by Amber is incorrect. It is possible to acquire health insurance ($70/month) after the age of 70.

Hi John
Can you provide an update on the status of a golf course that was being planned for Manta?
Also, any idea of where the tennis courts are located and what is the cost there to play?

Thanks for your help.

PS loved my stay in Manta a couple of years ago. I remember the Sports Bar and a terrific restaurant (forgot the name  but Naufrago comes to mind) on the main drag.

Hola, the golf course is just before Montecristi .when heading out of Manta. A friend was on site 2 weeks ago and reported the  first 9 holes were in play and 10 thro 16 completed,possibly open now.
The best and most consistent restaurant in my opinion is still Martinica at the westerly end of Flavio Reyes.
New eatery MUYA will give them a run for their money. Lots of good inexpensive places to eat.
Tennis is at the end of Flavio Reyes where the road bends across from hotel Nazo.I understand its expensive but have no details. Top level tournaments held there.
saludos,
John
3dayspanish.com

Gracias Juan
I will be returning to EC in Feb sometime so I do plan to pass through Manta plus other spots I missed on my last journey....Puerto Lopez, Montanita, Bahia. So many places, so little time.

Reading the comments on this site, I get the feeling that there are lots of surprises for newcomers to EC who plan to live there permanently.

So one last question: is there a handy dandy check list that one can refer to which details the documents necessary for a permanent move? From what I read on this site there are many "surprises" awaiting the naive ex-pat. Forewarned is forearmed: again, there are several subscribers to this site whose gleeful and unprepared move has left them startlingly facing a bureaucracy unparalleled in its ability to frustrate and confuse.

Greg

Greg,one of the reasons you get a multiplicity of answers to the "REQUIREMENTS" question is that there have been many administrative and rule changes in Ecuador immigration in the past several years. The department has worked to
simplify,standardize and shorten the time required. I have not done a recent review of the process and cannot be definitive although I would start with the Ecuador government online visa requirements.
Saludos,
John

pensionado wrote:

Is there a handy dandy check list that one can refer to which details the documents necessary for a permanent move?....there are several subscribers to this site whose gleeful and unprepared move has left them startlingly facing a bureaucracy unparalleled in its ability to frustrate and confuse.

That sounds about right.

For a well-researched and readable primer on the number-one most challenging document, the permanent residency visa, go to vivatropical.com and type in "Ecuador visa" in the search box.

You will find the visa section contains that list of documents, a list of just about every possible EC visa under the sun, advice on getting support in the process and answers to other FAQ's.

Greg,the place to start is your nearest Ecuadorean consulate or embassy.
i.e. Bloor St. at  Avenue Rd. Toronto.

thank you so very much. That info about IESS was on the Internet. I need to go to their main office in Centro City or where-ever it may be, and find somebody, who speaks English or take my friend with me, who is a totally bi-lingual Ecuadorian lady. I am so very relieved to have found out about this now. Although, I am trying my very best to learn Spanish, at my age it seems much harder to remember the correct phrases and all the vocabs.  But every day, I learn a few more words.  I am grateful for all the good advice. Good to know, there are peeps who still care about others. Kind regards, Amber

To Gardener1:   sorry about the obviously false info on IESS. I was looking on the Internet, and must have misunderstood something somewhere. I also talked to English speaking Ecuadorians, who told me the same thing, maybe they did not know exactly what they were talking about either. Anyway, one of my acquaintances will be able to help me out, I am sure. I will have to find out, where the main office is located and go there directly to apply. When  people tell me, I should have done all this research before-hand, yes, under normal circumstances, I would have done that, but time was of the essence and I needed to be here last November, which did not give me much time to "plan". Before people make hasty remarks, they need to realize, that not everyone walks in the same shoes. LOL   I'll be fine eventually.   I have met some really nice people from all different walks of life, different ethnic backgrounds and I have enjoyed my 11 mos. here so far, even having 4 accidents.  Did not let a little bad luck change my mind about wanting to stay here.  I am thinking of moving into the mountains next year. Province of Bolivar. Love it there.  Kind regards, Amber

AmberFenton wrote:

Anyway, one of my acquaintances will be able to help me out, I am sure. I will have to find out where the main office is located and go there directly to apply.

The way things are set up now, it's actually preferable to sign up online at iess.gob.ec

However, as it's all in Spanish, you'll want one of your peeps to assist you at the computer.  Click on to the "Afiliado" box and be prepared to register your bank account number.

For the first 90 days you will be unable to get a routine medical or dental appointment through IESS;  it's a waiting period.  After that time, you or your proxy should be able to call IESS to arrange for such appointments.

In case of emergency, you can be treated with no waiting period, under IESS no-additional-charge coverage, at any hospital in Ecuador where you show your cedula;  as needed, when you are stable you would be transfered to an IESS hospital for further treatment.

Many folks participating in IESS have a personal doctor and-or dentist outside the IESS system.  Since routine health care is inexpensive in EC, in this way one can choose his or her own primary-care doctor, and IESS will be there for emergencies or catastrophic care.  If you choose your own doctor you may have to also foot the bill for your meds, however.

One important note about the bank debits:  be responsible about making sure they are taking place.  I enrolled through my account at Banco de Guayaquil (correctly, I believe), but the debits did not activate timely.  This effectively delayed my true enrollment into IESS for months until I discovered that the debiting was not happening and re-entered the Banco information.

cccmedia wrote:

For a well-researched and readable primer on the number-one most challenging document, the permanent residency visa, go to vivatropical.com and type in "Ecuador visa" in the search box.

That site is inaccurate as well:   You do not need any kind of medical certification (including the specified HIV test).

And it does not state that you need a marriage certificate/divorce certificate if you have been married/divorced.

It also does not say that you need a long-form birth certificate which is required to obtain your Cedula (if you desire to obtain one).

@cccmedia:  thank you so very much for all your information. That is truly very king of you and totally appreciated by me. Good advice about the bank, too. I will make sure, that is taken care of as well.  I will feel a heck of a lot better, once I know, I have some health insurance here.    Take care and be well,  Amber

Mike,

Good job finding the chinks in vivatropical.com's armor.  This kind of checking and analysis is a great help to expat-blog readers.

Mike, if you know of -- or come across -- a superior website for visa assistance that would aid newcomer-Expats in EC, I hope you will share it  on this thread.

I have viewed so many websites and unfortunately cannot remember any specific ones that are fully up-to-date. The information I mentioned is from personal experience not more than 5 months ago (with the exception of the marriage/divorce certificates - I have never been married and so never required these - But I know they are required).

Residency visas for expats : www.ecuadorvisas.com
Advertised on "Gringo Tree" Cuenca newsletter. $600 all inclusive residency visa.
+ shipping assistance,medical,etc.
Not a personal recommendation as I have not used the service.
Website appears to offer professional,qualified service.
Perhaps better than the mixed bag of misinformation that tends to be shared between expats.

JOHN FISHER wrote:

Residency visas for expats : www.ecuadorvisas.com
Advertised on "Gringo Tree" Cuenca newsletter. $600 all inclusive residency visa.
+ shipping assistance,medical,etc.
Not a personal recommendation as I have not used the service.
Website appears to offer professional,qualified service.
Perhaps better than the mixed bag of misinformation that tends to be shared between expats.

The "$600 all inclusive residency visa" come-on does not include the government's $30 application fee nor its $320 visa fee.

The slap at Expat.comgers' supposed "bag of misinformation" was gratuitous and needlessly tarnishes the blog.

Even if the $600 all inclusive is a "come-on ",the total price of $950 including government
fees still looks reasonable provided the service delivers as it claims.
My comment regarding misinformation was based on the plethora of inaccurate information
I received from both professionals and fellow-expats when applying for my residency visa.
One year,two lawyers,and $2000 did the trick.

nobody asked me for a marriage licence or a divorce certificate, or a birth certificate. However, there was a list requiring more than 8 different documents, letters and certificates. That list seems to change every few months. They gave me the one for Americans, but I found out, that Canadians should not be given the same list, since the requirements are different for us.  I applied for the 9-1 Visa, the Permanent Resident Visa for retired people. I had to provide certified, notarized Pension proof, which also had to have a letter from the Ecuadorian Consulate in Toronto,  authenticating that I was actually receiving that pension. The Police Clearance had to be from the RCMP, not just the local Police Station. It had to be very recent. Then a Police Clearance from here, which could not be older than 3 weeks. All this information was given to me, when I showed up at the Ministerio with a lawyer, who spoke English and who had a friend in that place. At that time, I only had 2 weeks left on my extended visiting visa [6 mos.]  To have everything done exactly how they wanted it done at the Ministerio, I would have never been able to get it right, doing it all in Toronto. The Ecuadorian Consulate in Toronto gave me nothing but misinformation, unfortunately. Thank goodness, that is all in the past now, and I can relax and enjoy my new life here.   I should have had a lawyer right away, and save myself an awful lot of hassle. Live and learn.