FATCA and FBAR in Brazil; who's running the show here anyway???

Greetings from Canada! 

I have only recently found/joined Expatblog and am discovering a whole world of interesting issues.  The main issue which brought me to Expatblog was my wish to:
(1) find out information on what other US expats around the world were having to deal with in relation to FATCA, and
(2) to inform other US expats around the world that in Canada there now is an active group which has mounted an in-the-courts federal law suit against FATCA and the IGA. 

This is, as far as we know, the ONLY such ongoing litigation against FATCA in THE WORLD.  Republicans Overseas have linked with a lawyer (Jim Bopp) to bring forward a Constitutional Challenge case inside the USA (since FATCA contravenes several US Citizen "inalienanable rights" from the Bill of Rights), and there have been news articles about their position, but this effort seems to be stalled awaiting more funding support before proceeding.

The Canadian lawsuit, being supported by the Alliance For The Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (adcs dash adsc dot ca) came about as an offshoot from an earlier (and still very VERY viable) grass roots blog site called the Isaacbrocksociety, The IBS has as it's motto "Liberty and Justice for All United States Persons Abroad".  It's blog site has been vigorously going for now 3 years (since the word of FATCA and more heavy-handed filing rules started to appear).  You can read about this IBS history, and about some of our accomplishments (e.g. presentations to the US Congress, to the Canadian Parliament, a UN Human Rights Complaint against CBT) by typing into Googlesearch        Synopsis; History of Isaac Brock Society.  Here you will see links to ADCS, an Archive of our daily posts and +++ other background information.

The main topic at IBS has been FATCA, but also ranting about CBT (citizen-based-taxes), the situation of Accidental Americans (born in the US but to non-US parents then brought back to their home country as an infant/young child yet the US still claims them as "taxable citizens"), answering questions from posters all over the world who are just facing their "OMG, I might have US TAX obligations" moment, plus ongoing sharing of links to print and internet news articles RE FATCA, FBAR, the increase in US renunciations, and many many other related topics.  Many of our "members" make amazingly articulate comments to these articles, raising important questions and perspectives from an Expat's point of view for folks in the "homeland" to consider/reconsider).

When the Canadian IGA was passed in late June 2014 (hidden in a 300-pg omnibus "Budget Bill", similar to how FATCA was passed hidden in the HIRE Act), IBS members were immediately ready to move into legal action.  Central members of IBS had already connected with a renowned Canadian Constitutional Lawyer and had established ADCS as a registered business entity for raising funds towards this legal action.  Since July, we have gathered 1/2 of the required $500,000.00 (Cdn$) to bring this case to the first federal court hearing; as of today, we need $42,760 more in January to make the February 1, 2015  installment of $200,000 (and $200,000 further will be needed at the beginning of May and the beginning of August).  ADCS has received donations from supporters living in many countries, not just from within Canada; we have even had donations from folks INSIDE the US who think FATCA is outrageous.

While James noted that this lawsuit is against "the Attorney-General of Canada", it is actually against the Government of Canada (now tightly led by the Conservative Party that preferred to eliminate problems for the banking industry rather than support it's citizens).  You can read the claim at the ADCS site but, basically, it is that   signing on to FATCA via the IGA contravenes various basic tenants of Canadian law as documented in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms (and numerous laws that have branched from this basic legal platform).  In short, we are arguing that foreign law (in this case US law) should not supersede sovereign Canadian law, one of which is that there shall be no discrimination in Canada based on nationality or parentage.

This post is already quite long, so I don't want to add much more except to encourage you to

(1) please check out these Canadian sites (and add your voice - - we have quite a number of posters from other countries and want to know of your experience too) and

(2) please share this information about our legal challenge against FATCA (the ONLY active one in the WORLD) with as many US expats as you know there (or in other countries) and

(3) please consider making a small (or not so small) supportive contribution to this historic effort.  If we cannot raise sufficient funds to go forth, all US expats will lose this opportunity and it is extremely unlikely that any such challenge against this imperialistic economic and legal invasion will ever again be attempted.  Our hope is that if we are successful, this may encourage other countries to review, reconsider, and stand up to these world-wide US's demands. 

May 2015 be an amazing year for us all,
LLGM

Thankyou so very much LLGM for your detailed description of your group and their courageous fight in the Canadian Courts against these arrogant and  oppressive extraterritorial laws (not even  treaties or conventions) that are being forced down the throats of US expats all over the world and sovereign governments, who for the most part have just caved in facing the bullying and threats of the US government.

Keep up the good fight, know too that Canadian law and the Canadian Constitution Act - 1982 (to which the Charter of Freedoms and Rights is part and parcel) are on your side. I truly hope that many of our members will hear your call for small donations and respond. Even if everyone involved donated just $1 that would give sufficient financial backing to continue this noble battle.

Hopefully, the case will be decided in favor of the plaintiffs and at least in Canada FACTA and FBAR will have no legal weight. Perhaps that would encourage other groups and other governments to challenge the FATCA and the IGAs in their countries too, on Constitutional grounds.

Good luck to all of you, and please keep us all posted on your progress both in the Courts and in obtaining the much-needed funding to continue to fight this battle.

Cheers,
James       Expat-blog Experts Team

I think there is no possibility for the repeal of FATCA although I feel that it may go through some tweaking around the edges over time.

The US was failing to sell this plan to foreign countries, as I understand it, until they began to agree to reciprocity. In exchange for information on US citizens, the US agreed with foreign countries to share US banking information on their citizens. This was a much more palatable plan.

Which is leading all of us to GATCA.

"Facing the Invasive Onset of GATCA"
http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analys … an-Action/

And LLGM, I assume you're a reader of The Isaac Brock Society? They've been beating this with a stick for years and not getting much for their efforts.

When was the last time you saw a government, any government, repeal a tax? Especially a bankrupt government?

gardener1 wrote:

I think there is no possibility for the repeal of FATCA although I feel that it may go through some tweaking around the edges over time.

The US was failing to sell this plan to foreign countries, as I understand it, until they began to agree to reciprocity. In exchange for information on US citizens, the US agreed with foreign countries to share US banking information on their citizens. This was a much more palatable plan.

Which is leading all of us to GATCA.

"Facing the Invasive Onset of GATCA"
http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analys … an-Action/

And LLGM, I assume you're a reader of The Isaac Brock Society? They've been beating this with a stick for years and not getting much for their efforts.

When was the last time you saw a government, any government, repeal a tax? Especially a bankrupt government?

First of all, there could be a number of tweeks that could be accomplished which would alter the course of this attempt to find "money launderers" and "tax cheats" that would not so disrupt the lives of US citizens abroad AND their families AND their businesses.

Yeah, the US was failing to sell this plan to foreign countries, so they devised a much more brutal invasive and imperialistic plan - - the threat of economic sanctions.  Do you REALLY believe that there will be any reciprocity?  Banking groups in several states have already made it clear they would not do this, and some banks in the US are already closing the accounts of expats from non-US countries - - how good for the US will that be???  There seems no way that the federal govt in the US can force such reciprocity given the massive range of banking and investment sites/opportunities there; besides, the country with the most "hidden" money is THE USA.

As for GATCA, yes it is coming, but if you look closely at the specs, you will notice that GATCA DOES NOT INCLUDE CITIZEN-BASED TAXES.  Will the US sign on to GATCA?  Will the rest of the world cooperate with the US when the majority of other countries work together with GATCA?

And do you really think FATCA, even with the promise to "work towards reciprocity" was a "much more palatable plan".  I think not - - these non-treaty IGAs were signed under duress, under the gun, under threats of economic annialation.  Friendly nations were forced to push their sovereign laws aside (is this how to treat one's "friends"???).  Expats are peeved and frightened and resentful, and becoming less positive "ambassadors" for their native land when abroad. With FATCA, expats will have less opportunity to work in the 21st century international world, thus more limited opportunity to spread the US economy in terms of cooperative businesses in other countries.  Because of FATCA US expats are already being turned down for certain management promotions  or not being hired for responsible jobs.  And slowly but surely more and more US citizens will (with great disgruntlement) turn their backs and renouce this "Economic Berlin Wall" nation.

It may take a while, but FATCA is going to hurt the US a lot more than it helps the US.  So, shall we align ourselves with the bully?

I would write a response to gardner1, but I am too angry and it would do no good anyway, he cannot understand and will no understand that Canada has a Constitution of their own. He knows nothing about Canadian Constitutional Law.

FATCA is not a Treaty, it can't ever be because the US Constitution requires the US Senate to approve a Treaty by a 2/3 vote. The IGA, violates the EXISTING US/Canada Tax Treaty, it violates the Canada Constitution Act - 1982, Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and various privacy laws (ALL CANADIAN LAWS and within Canada). But somehow that little fact escapes him because he obviously is one of the many who think of CANADA as the 51st State. It is not.

I think the bigger issue is, in many countries, the rule of law no longer matters.

The law is now becoming a hodge podge of internationally negotiated 'agreements' enforced by unelected regulatory agencies, with no approval by actual governmental bodies nor the people they represent.

Just look at the G-20 in Brisbane about a month ago. Those country's leaders all agreed to an international banking 'agreement' that defined banking depositors as *investors* who are on the hook for bank bail ins in the event the bank gambles with and loses the depositors money. And moreover, those depositors are last in line to collect their money, after bondholders and institutional investors, and tax collectors. (Cyprus model)

Seriously read the GATCA link. Globalism is sneaking up by not so much legislated rule of law, but by various glad-handed international *business* agreements, mandates, orders, partnerships, and contractual law.

Also worth looking at is odious TISA agreement -

"The whistleblower and transparency website WikiLeaks published on Thursday the secret draft text of the Trade in Services Agreement (TISA) Financial Services Annex, a controversial global trade agreement promoted by the United States and European Union that covers 50 countries and is opposed by global trade unions and anti-globalization activists.

Activists expect the TISA deal to promote privatization of public services in countries across the globe, and WikiLeaks said the secrecy surrounding the trade negotiations exceeds that of even the controversial Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) that has made headlines in the past year."

Demonstrations erupted in Geneva in April as diplomats met in secret for the sixth round of negotiations over TISA, which would cover international trade in a wide range of service industries ranging from finance and telecommunications to transportation and even local utilities such as water. Protesters demanded that the draft text be released, but it has remained secret until now.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/24486-wi … artnershiphttps://wikileaks.org/tisa-financial/

I fear flailing at FATCA is kicking the small dog.

Had to look around a bit to recall the recent TiSA news releases, but this is a good one:

LEAKED: Secret Negotiations to Let Big Brother Go Global
December 25, 2014


"Much has been written, at least in the alternative media, about the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), two multilateral trade treaties being negotiated between the representatives of dozens of national governments and armies of corporate lawyers and lobbyists (on which you can read more here, here and here). However, much less is known about the decidedly more secretive Trade in Services Act (TiSA), which involves more countries than either of the other two.


If signed, the treaty would affect all services ranging from electronic transactions and data flow, to veterinary and architecture services. It would almost certainly open the floodgates to the final wave of privatization of public services, including the provision of healthcare, education and water. Meanwhile, already privatized companies would be prevented from a re-transfer to the public sector by a so-called barring “ratchet clause” – even if the privatization failed.

More worrisome still, the proposal stipulates that no participating state can stop the use, storage and exchange of personal data relating to their territorial base.

The leaked documents confirm our worst fears that TiSA is being used to further the interests of some of the largest corporations on earth (…) Negotiation of unrestricted data movement, internet neutrality and how electronic signatures can be used strike at the heart of individuals’ rights. Governments must come clean about what they are negotiating in these secret trade deals.

Fat chance of that, especially in light of the fact that the text is designed to be almost impossible to repeal, and is to be “considered confidential” for five years after being signed. What that effectively means is that the U.S. approach to data protection (read: virtually non-existent) could very soon become the norm across 50 countries spanning the breadth and depth of the industrial world.

Big Brother Goes Global

The main players in the top-secret negotiations are the United States and all 28 members of the European Union. However, the broad scope of the treaty also includes Australia, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Hong Kong, Iceland, Israel, Japan, Liechtenstein, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, South Korea, Switzerland, Taiwan and Turkey. Combined they represent almost 70 percent of all trade in services worldwide.

An explicit goal of the TiSA negotiations is to overcome the exceptions in GATS that protect certain non-tariff trade barriers, such as data protection. For example, the draft Financial Services Annex of TiSA, published by Wikileaks in June 2014, would allow financial institutions, such as banks, the free transfer of data, including personal data, from one country to another.

.....there are currently no comprehensive data protection laws in place.

If the U.S. negotiators get their way – and let’s face it, when it comes to its dealings with its so-called “allies,” Washington invariably does – multinational corporations will have carte blanche to pry into just about every facet of the working and personal lives of the inhabitants of roughly a quarter of the world’s 200-or-so nations.

.....data will be freely bought and sold on the open market place without our knowledge; companies and governments will be able to store it for as long as they desire and use it for just about any purpose."

Read more here:
http://wolfstreet.com/2014/12/25/leaked … go-global/

LLGM wrote:

When the Canadian IGA was passed in late June 2014 (hidden in a 300-pg omnibus "Budget Bill", similar to how FATCA was passed hidden in the HIRE Act), IBS members were immediately ready to move into legal action.  Central members of IBS had already connected with a renowned Canadian Constitutional Lawyer and had established ADCS as a registered business entity for raising funds towards this legal action.  Since July, we have gathered 1/2 of the required $500,000.00 (Cdn$) to bring this case to the first federal court hearing; as of today, we need $42,760 more in January to make the February 1, 2015  installment of $200,000 (and $200,000 further will be needed at the beginning of May and the beginning of August).  ADCS has received donations from supporters living in many countries, not just from within Canada; we have even had donations from folks INSIDE the US who think FATCA is outrageous.

please consider making a small (or not so small) supportive contribution to this historic effort.  If we cannot raise sufficient funds to go forth, all US expats will lose this opportunity and it is extremely unlikely that any such challenge against this imperialistic economic and legal invasion will ever again be attempted.

And this isn't politics????

From the great white north:  I totally agree with James in his rage against the US presuming to rule the laws of the world and, especially, the chinking away of Canadian sovereign rights to legislate within it's borders.

But also I am stunned and sickened by the newly leaked TISA information that Gardener1 shared. 

I had read about TPPA but not TISA.  This momentum towards oligarchy by business interests and the already-wealthy is horrifying.  Can there really ever be a benevolent dictatorship by these powerful folks with lots of narcissistic ego and self-serving aims  Will this lead to revolution by the people or will we all just roll over, bite our tongues, and hide our balls and heads in the sand as long as our very very basic Maslow-needs are well managed?

LLGM wrote:

From the great white north:  I totally agree with James in his rage against the US presuming to rule the laws of the world and, especially, the chinking away of Canadian sovereign rights to legislate within it's borders.

But also I am stunned and sickened by the newly leaked TISA information that Gardener1 shared. 

I had read about TPPA but not TISA.  This momentum towards oligarchy by business interests and the already-wealthy is horrifying.  Can there really ever be a benevolent dictatorship by these powerful folks with lots of narcissistic ego and self-serving aims  Will this lead to revolution by the people or will we all just roll over, bite our tongues, and hide our balls and heads in the sand as long as our very very basic Maslow-needs are well managed?

If you are shattered to hear that, then still you have not read the gist of the link I posted about the GATCA agreement, in which case I will copy and paste for you:

"But wait, there's more! If FATCA wasn't the end game, don't expect GATCA to be either ... GATCA ... could provide a platform to make the disturbing dream of a global tax a reality. Bankrupt governments like France and the UK are also on board, as it allows them to more efficiently fleece and control their citizens. Strangely, you never hear financially sound countries, like Switzerland, Singapore, or Hong Kong advocating for FATCA, GATCA, or a global tax. It's only the failed welfare states drowning in debt, and that's not a coincidence.

This is a fairly blunt – and disturbing – analysis. But GATCA does seem to be moving quickly. Here's an article recently posted at the Professor William Byrnes International Tax and Financial Services blog:

47 Countries Endorse OECD's GATCA / CRS ... 47 countries and major financial centers on May 6, 2014 committed to automatic exchange of information between their jurisdictions, announced the OECD. All 34 OECD member countries, as well as Argentina, Brazil, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, India, Indonesia, Latvia, Lithuania, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore and South Africa endorsed the Declaration on Automatic Exchange of Information in Tax Matters that was released at the May 6-7, 2014 Meeting of the OECD at a Ministerial Level.

The Declaration commits countries to implement a new single global standard on automatic exchange of information ("CRS" or "GATCA"). The OECD stated that it will deliver a detailed Commentary on the new standard, as well as technical solutions to implement the actual information exchanges, during a meeting of G20 finance ministers in September 2014. The Declaration contains the following statements:

"2. CONFIRM that automatic exchange of financial account information will further these objectives particularly if the new single global standard, including full transparency on ownership interests, is implemented among all financial centres;

"3. ACKNOWLEDGE that information exchanged on the basis of the new single global standard is subject to appropriate safeguards including certain confidentiality requirements and the requirement that information may be used only for the purposes foreseen by the legal instrument pursuant to which it is exchanged;

"4. ARE DETERMINED to implement the new single global standard swiftly, on a reciprocal basis. We will translate the standard into domestic law, including to ensure that information on beneficial ownership of legal persons and arrangements is effectively collected and exchanged in accordance with the standard;"

... G20 governments have mandated the OECD-hosted Global Forum on Transparency and Exchange of Information for Tax Purposes to monitor and review implementation of the standard. More than 60 countries and jurisdictions of the 121 Global Forum members have now committed to early adoption of the standard, and additional members are expected to join this group in the coming months. See the link for Country Peer Reviews and the Global Forum list of ratings chart.

There have been other articles written about GATCA. Here's an excerpt from an analysis that appeared in December of last year, posted at Mallesons.com and entitled "From FATCA to GATCA: the move towards global tax information exchange":

It is clear to see the advantages of having a single common global standard for reporting rather than numerous stand-alone systems and the OECD's proposals seem likely to become accepted as the new global standard. It is hoped that this unified approach will reduce the cost burden for FIs, and avoid simply 'relocating' the problem of tax evasion to other jurisdictions.

Given these aims it is perhaps no surprise that the OECD proposal is itself based closely on the existing Model I Intergovernmental Agreement ("IGA"), originally developed to implement FATCA outside the US. The OECD aim to 'simplify' the IGA by removing US-specific references changing the effective dates and aligning it more closely to existing EU anti-money laundering laws.

An OECD working party has met to develop a draft "model competent authority agreement" and "common reporting standard" with a view to obtaining OECD approval in early 2014. Implementation time frames in this area have been ambitious from the outset, and this does not seem likely to change now, with first reporting under this proposed regime being possibly as early as 2016.

As we can see, this article – one written for the professional investment community (financial intermediaries) – takes the position that a "single common global standard for reporting" will reduce costs and tax evasion alike.

The significant language here is "avoid simply 'relocating' the problem of tax evasion." The reason that GATCA will "avoid relocating" tax evasion is because it is intended to be a fully global solution.

While this seems to be an overwhelmingly ambitious campaign, we are not surprised by its scope. The elite collectivists behind this gambit have made no secret of their desire to identify the full spectrum of private assets lodged around the world – and also to implement a global tax as soon as possible.

What does surprise us about GATCA is the speed at which it is being introduced and formalized. The start-date, from what we can tell, may be as soon as 2016. This is in keeping with other campaigns launched by the power elite of late. We've commented a number of times on the speed with which cannabis decriminalization is moving around the world, for instance, and there are numerous other evidences of increased elite urgency as well.

In this case, those behind GATCA are not even bothering with a popular consensus: They are simply promoting the regime from the top down, seeking a political consensus and assuming that will acceptable."


Even though outrage against US FATCA taxation is well justified, I must admonish that it is clearly a spreading disease of digital banksterism and globalization that has already spread way beyond the boundaries of the USA.

The bankers and corporations have bought and own this world and nearly all of the puppet governments. You will pay this way, or you will hand them your money that way, but in the end everything you thought was yours, and every civil right you thought you had, has been rescinded in global partnership agreements that aim to steal everything everyone has.

They really don't care if you are Canadian.

James wrote:

gardner1, he he he

Very funny

So lets take a look at what will really happen with this IGA lawsuit
1.  If you lose, then all you did was waste time and money (Note to USA income tax preparers: Unlike Expat.com, the IRS considers this POLITICAL, and any contributions to this "cause" are not tax deductible charitable contributions, better not show up on your schedule A)
2. The lawsuit wins.  How does this benefit the alleged beneficiaries , the "tainted" USA citizens living in Canada?  They still must pay taxes on their worldwide income, but the Canadian banks will save money by not helping them.  Of course the responsible USA citizens will still be able to report everything on their own, so the clock was just moved back 10 years.  The only other result will be that any USA citizen moving money from an American bank to a Canadian bank will have 30% income tax withheld.  This can easily be avoided.
Conclusion:  No matter what the result,  this lawsuit is nothing more than mental masturbation

Accurate - - this is not a tax-deductible charitable contribution.  But people contribute to political causes all the time to support what they believe in.  If one feels that FATCA is a repugnant invasion of sovereignty and privacy, they can put their money where their mouth is and join others in resisting.

If the lawsuit wins, US citizens will still be under the obligation to file their taxes; no one is arguing differently.  However, lots of US citizens have been filing their taxes and tax forms for many years from overseas without the US coming in and confiscating every last private detail of their financial life while trampling over the long-standing well-considered banking and privacy laws of this foreign country.  FFIs will have to decide if they want to be compliant or not; they will have to deal with their customers directly to have them waive their legal rights or not (and, if not, bank accounts may have to be closed or banks may have to face FATCA from the US until this awful law is made illegal in the US).  So, yes, there will be other issues.  But then it is more out in the open what the banks (and the US, such a friend to countries like Canada - - do you hear me coughing loudly???) are doing.  Some will turn to smaller non-FATCA financial institutions, some may hide all their money in their mattress or in gold or property, who knows.  But Canadian law will be revived for ALL in Canada

Your conclusion of "No matter what the result,  this lawsuit is nothing more than mental masturbation" indicates one orientation; I prefer to support principled action towards international-law-approved human rights and civil society rather than just rolling over and "oh well, what can I do" masturbation - -if everyone did as little as you suggest, we all would be living under rule of communist or fascist or other despotic dictatorships.

Hi everybody,

Let's make this thread a constructive one and not a political debate please.

Thank you

Priscilla

Somewhere I have a link to a good pdf summary of what FATCA entails. If I find it, I'll post it.

I also know that my bank here complies with FATCA requirements, but I also retain my funds in the US and move them legally to Brazil as needed.The first year filing probably won't be too difficult. We'll see what happens.

This is significant information. We appreciate the chance to see news such as this before it hits us legally between the eyes.