Is it better to get Permanent Residence from the US or inside Brazil

In either case, since you married in the USA, your spouse is going to have to register the marriage with the Consulado-Geral do Brasil that has jurisdiction over Philly. This generally has to be done ONLY by the Brazilian spouse except under exceptional circumstances. See the following posting on registering a foreign marriage:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=376293

For permanency the documents required are going to all be the same whether you apply there or here in Brazil, with the exception of the Criminal Record Check. The Consulado is going to insist on the check, whereas the Federal Police in Brazil will only require it if you actually have a record. In absence of any criminal convictions they will give you a Declaration (Declaração Sob Pena da Lei de Não Condenação) that you can fill out and have notarized at the Cartório.

If you apply for permanency in the USA it's going to take about 3 months, the downside is that you CANNOT enter Brazil until you've been granted the visa; not even with any other category visa. So you're stuck there until it's in your hot little hands.

If you come to Brazil on a VITUR Tourist Visa, you can apply for permanency at any time following your arrival; preferentially within the first 180 days. Under the new procedures here you go through a "one-stop-shopping" process; apply for permanency, register in the RNE (Registro Nacional de Estrangeiros), and apply for your civil ID (Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro). If all the paperwork is present and in order you are granted permanency immediately, you're registered in the RNE, and the only thing you need to wait for is the Cédula to be made up. The Federal Police claim that will be 60 days, but most people wait longer and some even less. See the following topic thread for information on the new permanency process:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=403321

The big advantage of applying here in Brazil is that once you apply (based either on marriage or having a Brazilian child) you have the automatic right to obtain your work permit (Carteira de Trabalho e Previdência Social - CTPS) and to work in Brazil.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

Even though it took me 13 months I'm glad I did it in Brazil.

Thanks for the detailed reply James. It's been a confusing and interesting journey so far - and it's only the beginning!

Better get used to it... BUREAUCRACY wasn't invented in Brazil, they just turned it into a SCIENCE here. There isn't a single aspect of life in this country that isn't fraught with mountains of bureaucracy, most of which makes absolutely no sense at all. Even the simplest things are made difficult here so you need a healthy dose of patience if you're going to make it in this country.

James, am I right?  I believe it was much longuer to apply when in Brazil than in the origin country but recently Brazil administration changed and accelarate the process.

Yes, the old system could take 2 years or more to obtain permanency. Since the new procedures were put in place on Sept. 1, 2014 if all the documents are present and in order permanency is granted immediately, the applicant registers in the RNE and applies for their Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro which is the only thing that they have to wait for.

Great news, it proves that brazilian administration can reforms itself.

Only in small ways, my friend.... only in small ways. If you're talking about the system as a whole, I think personally that it's beyond all hope unless there's a complete and drastic change in the whole political landscape of this country.

I'm not saying any politician or party is any better or worse than any of the others.... The Brazilians have a saying that is perfectly true when talking about politicians. "São todos farinha do mesmo saco!" (They're all flour from the same sack!)

I am glad I applied in Brazil as well, it was all done in 15 months from start to finish, that was more than a decade ago!

For the decade Ive had my card, it really hasn't provided any real benefit. It is expiring this summer so the better choice is to just apply for citizenship. We live in Ca. My daughter is dual citizen, born in Brazil, Brazilian wife has a US permanent resident card for USA, we own property in Bahia...its time for me to start the citizen process. By the way, after age 60, the Brazilian Residense Card is not required..look it up!

The Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro (CIE) IS REQUIRED for all foreign nationals in Brazil, permanent or temporary (other than tourists), regardless of their age when they make their first application.

What you are confusing this with is that for anyone 60 years of age and over or having a physical disability does not need to renew their existing CIE. If you apply for the CIE when you are 60 or have a disability it will come back marked "Validade - Indeterminado" which means it will not expire, but you MUST apply for the first one make no mistake about it. I know this from personal experience because I was over 60 (and have a disability) when I first applied.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

You still need the card after age 60 it just doesn't expire. It's your identification.

James and jland,

Many thanks on the clarification! At 63 and making trips to Brazil back and forth gets costly. I'm relieved to know that the validity now remains until demise. I've noticed also that when Brazilians look at the card, say in a Bank, they don't understand and say, "it's expired". Should I attempt a renewal or what?

James...ref
"For permanency the documents required are going to all be the same whether you apply there or here in Brazil, with the exception of the Criminal Record Check. The Consulado is going to insist on the check, whereas the Federal Police in Brazil will only require it if you actually have a record."

That doesnt make sense to me, how will DPF know if you have a record or not if you haven't provided a record check??  I had to provide it 3 times during the course of applying for an investment visa some 9 years ago (as they expired every 90 days, so every new step of the process I had to provide a new one...around $20 a pop at the time)  I am looking at Naturalisation now, and the current document will run me closer to $200 once all postage and courier costs are factored in, don't see how the DPF would not want to see it before "naturalising" you.

New game with new rules!!! That's why.

The criminal record check, under the new procedure brought in on Sept. 1, 2014 has been dispensed with for those who actually have no criminal record. The Federal Police will have the applicant fill out a Declaração Sob Pena de Lei de Não Condenação and have it notarized at the Cartório here. (They provide a "fill in the blanks" declaration form).

Essentially you now only need the Certified Criminal Record Check for the Federal Police here if you actually do have a previous conviction of some kind.

This is because the new procedures now are more closely observing the applicant's Constitutional Rights to permanency based on marriage. Obviously making a false declaration is a crime so I would not recommend trying to fudge it. Even if you do have a criminal record, once married to a Brazilian citizen, you still have the Constitutional Right under Art. 226 of the Constitution, the process of getting permanency will be a bit more complex, for sure, since it will be treated like applications under the old system, but you will eventually get permanency granted.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

James,
As stated in an earlier post, I'm 63 and have had my Permanent Residence card for many years.
My question is, am I in jeopordy of it expiring while being out of Brasil two years or more? How does this play in with the "over 60" no expiration clause?
Roger

Hi Roger,

How long ago was the last time you renewed the CIE? If it was last renewed anywhere near your 60th birthday it should already have been made up with "Validade: Indeterminado". Check your card, if it does not say that you should ask the Federal Police why it doesn't. To my understanding if you will turn 60 during the normal validity period of a CIE when issued they automatically do it.

If you have any problems with the Federal Police let me know.

Regardless of indeterminado or not you can only be outside of Brazil for up to two years, you would lose permanency after that. You need to come back at least every two years to retain PR status.

Cheers,
James

James
Well that would be what we call a "result" then ! 

BTW, are you aware of any official site (MJ, DPF etc) that lists the new rules as they now stand, because I have looked since September and was still finding the old outdated list of requirements....

thanks

The most recent information from the Policia Federal is listed on their website.

http://www.dpf.gov.br/servicos/estrange … definitiva

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the grounds upon which you would be applying for permanency.

The procedure is new, but the documentation required is almost ALL the same, with the exception of the Criminal Record Check (when based on marriage to a Brazilian citizen or on having a Brazilian child) in those cases you can get by with a Declaração Sob Pena da Lei.

Even on this site not all of the information is completely up to date and accurate. What can I say? That's Brazil for you.

Cheers,
James

Hello everybody,

I'm a brazilian national married with a portuguese ( the marrige was registered in Brasil )and we are moving to Brazil . Can she enter the country with a "one way" ticket in order to apply for a permanent visa at Policia Federal ?

Thanks in advance

Hello Rodolfo,

There is absolutely no requirement for a round trip ticket back to her original destination. The MOST that is required would be an outbound ticket to any other country that she already has a visa to enter, or may enter using just her passport under the Visa Waiver Program. Even a "throw away" bus ticket to one of the neighboring South American countries will satisfy that requirement, should it actually be necessary which in her case I doubt.

Since she's legally married to a Brazilian she is entitled to permanency, and as a Portuguese citizen she is also entitled to apply for Equal Civil Rights as if she were born Brazilian. If you're worried at all then just purchase a bus ticket online at:

www.buscaonibus.com.br

That will keep the Policia Federal quite happy upon entry.

Just remember one important thing... even though you've registered the marriage with the Consulado-Geral do Brasil you MUST also register it at the 1° Oficio de Registro Civil (either in Brasília or in the city where you will reside in Brazil, whichever is more convenient for you).

You can also e-mail the Policia Federal and explain the situation, ask them if the outbound ticket will even be necessary in your wife's case. They will take their own sweet time to reply to your e-mail, but they will reply sooner or later.

estrangeiros@dpf.gov.br

Cheers,
James         Expat-blog Experts Team