CIE - missing visa request form

Sorry Steve, but this one is way beyond my sphere of experience. I'm afraid that you're going to have to sort it out with the Consulate and the Policia Federal. I can assure you that if I can't answer your question, nobody else here is going to be able to unless they personally have gone through the exact same situation.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Do you think if I need to I can get a work visa without actually having a CIE or work book

I mean I have the VIPER Permenant Permission to stay and marriage registered in Brazil.....can you get a work book without a CIE

You have the VIPER Permanent Visa afixed in your passport, don't you?

You should need NOTHING else in order to obtain your CIE, the law requires you to register within 30 days of arrival in Brazil and I see absolutely no way that the Federal Police can refuse to issue you a CIE. Are you sure you were speaking to a Federal Police Agent (police officer) or were you dealing with some flunky civilian employee who doesn't know their arse from their elbow???

Regarding your CPF and your Carteira de Trabalho e Previdência Social - CTPS, your passport with the VISA in it should get you those doecuments with absolutely no trouble at all.

Cheers,
James

Hi yes I have the VIPER in passport

and it's been noted that I registered within 30 days......but the CIE was refused processing due to a few things
It was a bit of a flunky and also late in the day

Why do I actually need the CIE then and why is so much importance attached to it....
To open a bank account ? for formal employment

The thing is I have the offer of some basic work but I don't want to break any laws by doing it
what are my rights on the VIPER and what exactly do I need to do to work legally now that I've checked in

I understood I needed a CIE to do anything else , but obviously I was mistaken

regards

The CIE is the main piece of identification for foreigners in Brazil and by law you must carry it with you at all times, just as Brazilians are required to carry their RG. You can't obtain any other Brazilian documents, open a bank account, and in some states (like São Paulo) can't even arrange to utility hook-ups without it.

I'm positive that you were NOT dealing with a police officer at the Policia Federal, YOU CANNOT BE REFUSED A CIE, you're already permanent and the Policia Federal have NOTHING further to do with you or to say in the matter, other than to register you in the system. Obviously you were dealing with a very lazy civilian employee who simply didn't want to do his/her job on that day. Go back and insist on being registered, and make sure you are dealing with a police agent, demand to see the gold BADGE.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

Ok , I got the RNE processed smoothly after having the missing form couriered here from from my consulate oversea's

Now I got to get CPF and workbook asap
Any tips....do you have to do the at the recita federal and ministeira de trabalho or can some of it be done at banco do brasil and popo temo


rgards
Steve

Both of those are really easy to get.

You can get the CPF at the Correios. If you don't have to wait in line, this will only take a couple of minutes. I'm a bit surprised that you were able to go through the RNE process without the CPF.

The workbook at the ministeira de trabalho was also very easy and fast for me to get. There was no line and it took only about 5 minutes for them to process everything and I picked the workbook up a week later.

I don't know ...the guy there was pretty thorough with his document demands, but CPF never came up during the RNE
if fact afterwards I even asked him advice on it in relation to the workbook

CPF is not listed in the federal polices requirements for RNE either...

ah, my mistake. You're right.

I've used the CPF for so many things in Brazil, I just assumed that I used it for the RNE process

So with an RNE protocol can I get the bloody thing at the post office....?

I keep reading I may have to go to Receita Federal to Justify not having a voting document....or is that rubbish

I spoke to a woman at Banco do Brazil yesterday , she was helpful but seemed slightly confused about the whole process

So can I get the CPF at the post office or bank or am I got to need to make a trip to the Receita Federal anyway

Thanks
Steve

Hi Steve,

You need to go to the Superintendência Regional do Ministério de Trabalho e Empregos for you (workbook) Carteira de Trabalho e Previdência Social - CTPS. They are the ONLY ones who will process the workbook for foreigners. If you're in Campinas their address is:

Rua Barreto Leme 980 - Centro
Campinas, SP | CEP: 13010-201

Depending on their workload and how busy they are you may wait up to 10 days for the Carteira de Trabalho, they'll tell you when to pick it up.

The CPF can be applied for at the Correios, Caixa Econômica Federal branches or directly at any office of the Receita Federal.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

Ok great thanks....that one is actually much closer to where I am , they gave me the adress of another one that was much futher away , that one is a 15 min walk

You did tell them that you are a foreigner didn't you? It's only the Superintendência Regional that will do the workbook for foreigners. Best check with them again if you didn't since you may find you'll arrive there and then when they find out they will only send you off to the other address I gave you.

You're lucky, there is one in Campinas; here in Macaé we have to travel to another city 2 hours away by car (Cabo Frio) to the nearest Superintendência Regional.

Cheers,
James

Actually I got there to find there is no Ministeira de trabalho at hat adress anymore it's been moved , I have to go to the adress the guy at the federal Police gave me which is a bit futher away

What is the infastructure in Cabo Frio like , it's one of the Towns we wanted to check out as an option to move to.....good diving there and the pictures of the region look stunning

Sorry Steve, I really can't say because I've not been to Cabo Frio. I think we have a member who lives there so perhaps he'll see this and answer your questions. He's not very active on the forum, but you could try sending him a private message his user name is Cabo Frio (I swear it's true....  )

Cheers,
James
Expat-blog Experts Team

For the record you need an appointment at Ministeira de Trabalho Campinas I found out there  today ....they don't answer their phone and info on the site is vague ....got the CPF too , had to go to Recita Federal after applying at post office, was easy

Anyhow ....how long does this CIE usually take to come in the medium size cities , does not seem like there's loads of foreigners in Campinas like Sao Paulo or Rio ... the guy at FP said 2 - 3 months , but I read about people who waited a year

Also if I want to move to another state before the card arrives and collect it there at a new federal Police is that possible...as we want to move to Bahia...or am I asking for trouble here  , card going missing or some other logistics bundle

You are required by law to register any change of address with the Federal Police within 30 days of any move. That will automatically transfer any pending processes to the new DPF Delegacy, should your move be to another city or state. It will however delay receiving the CIE that much longer because at this late stage it will probably go to Campinas first and then have to be re-routed to wherever you move.

Note that, the requirement to inform the DPF of address changes will continue until you should at some point in the future decide to naturalize as a Brazilian citizen.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

so which department do you inform about the change , your current Federal Police , the one in new area of both?.....I would imagine you inform your new office

Regards
Steve

To answer your question about the time

It wont take a year. If all the paperwork is done correctly it should take between 2-4 months. Now if you're moving around, I don't know if this changes the time frame.

Under the old rules, it would take a year (or even years), but it's no long like that.

You can inform either DPF Delegacy about your address change, but best to do it in the new jurisdiction. You will need to take a comprovante de enereço (proof of address), such as a phone, electric, water or gas bill, and 2 - 3X4 photos and your old protocol. They will make up a new (separate) protocol for the address change and return your old protocol along with the address change protocol.

Cheers,
James

Thanks James
So what if I stay 50 days in a place but have not "Moved " there ...seems a bit ridiculous to have to do all that only to go back where you came from - but the Law is the  Law I suppose
So what defines a person as having changed address , or what even constitutes an address in Brazil
It seems strange they would need a utility bill to change the address as I didn't need any proof for the actual protocol
Although I am familiar with this type of thing , in South Africa they are obsessed with proof of addess for banking purposes.

So to sum it up , I move , attempted to report to the Federal Police , but have no Proof of Address because I have just moved ...will they then refuse to acknowledge the change and what status would I fall into ?

What are the penalties for not registering an address change in 30 days

Thanks for the info
I know I may be flogging a dead horse a bit here but I believe it's always very important to know exactly what the legalities are

Thanks
Steve

You do not need to report a change of address that is only temporary. We're talking about one's normal place of permanent residence here. If it were any other way you'd have to let the Federal Police know every time you went on a vacation. You are required to have some kind of proof of residence to register the address change. That means either a rental contract, utility bill or a notarized Declaração de Residência from the property owner. We all go through this, it's not such a big deal.

I'm not sure exactly what the penalty is for not registering an address change, but the DPF have fines for everything imaginable, and no doubt have one for that too.

Please, you are in BRAZIL... you're not back home. The law here are the way they are, you should not expect that they're going to change anytime soon.

There are two options only, either you comply with the laws and play the game by their rules (recommended), or you ignore the laws and accept whatever the consequences may be of such action. Bureaucracy was not invented in Brazil, they just turned it into a science!!! If you can't accept that fact then you're going to be very unhappy in this country and I'd advise you to really re-think your intentions to live here permanently.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

The Bureaucracy in Brazil actually doesn't phase me a bit ... I'm from South Africa where every problem in Brazil we have but much worse...my wife went through much more hell with the visa laws there than anything we've encountered in Brazil...
I think you misunderstood my last post , I was simply trying to find out what the exact laws are so I don't break them unknowingly

You do realize I'm taking hypothetically here ...I have not actually moved anywhere yet... maybe my earlier post was not that clear ...

Is there a pre paid fee for this adress change?

Believe it or not, it is one of the things in this country that is FREE. Guess that's because you are required by law to inform them of the change of address and all they really do with it is enter it into their computer system to update their information. You must take a 3X4 color photo with you because they will make up a protocolo for you to confirm that you've changed address.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

Ok so let me just get the last thing straight so I understand everything

-The Protocol I have is just a temporary document until the CIE card come - am I right
-Once my CIE come do I no longer need a protocol - or do you always need a protocol as well as the card

-You mentioned getting a new protocol when the adress is changed - I'm guessing the CIE does not have my adress as it's a document I have for a number of years before it expires - Is this right too

Regards
Steve

Actually you MUST surrender the protocolo to the Federal Police in order to collect your CIE. Also, in the event that your CIE is not ready within the time frame stated on the protocolo you need to go back to the PF and have them stamp it with a "prorrogação".

No documents here in Brazil have addresses, not even Driver's Licenses. That is why you must register a change of address with the PF within 30 days of any move. You will need to do that at all times, unless at some point in the future you naturalize as a citizen.

The CIE when based on marriage, child, etc., is usually valid for 10 years. For anyone who has a physical disability or is 60 years of age or older at the time of their application, or will reach that age BEFORE the expiration date of the CIE they will receive an ID with no expiry date "INDETERMINADO", they will not need to renew their CIE in the future.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team