Driving in Vietnam

cabraman wrote:

Ottvantor wrote:

Do you know if anything has been implemented since this 2011 report?

I plan to check with the APEC team in Singapore and with 2 of the 3 executives that represents VN industry at APEC, one is the chairman of HDBank and the owner/chairman of Vietjet and the second guy I know heads up the VN chamber of commerce. Both are here in HCMC.

Ottvantor wrote:

The report is structured as follows:

    Executive summary
1. Introduction
2. A framework for safety initiatives
3. Road user measures to prevent crashes
4. Rider measures to reduce injury severity
5. Vehicle measures to prevent crashes
6. Vehicle measures to reduce injury severity
7. Road improvements to prevent crashes
8. Road improvements to reduce injury severity
9. Measures to improve treatment of injuries
10. Selected rider and driver measures to prevent crashes

I can't help it but find reading this document like some kind of joke. compiled by Queensland University of Technology which probably just cut and paste from Australian Standards. so the idea is to apply a high quality of living standard like in Australia to a city like HCM. take one of the recommendation for example, wearing leather gloves, jackets and trousers can reduce injuries. imagine all the populous in HCM suiting up before riding down to get a hot bread or the xe om fella wearing all leather whilst waiting for his next customer; all in the name of road safety. lets use another example, 'enforcement', I think if the coppers starts fining everyone for breaking the law the whole city would be in goal. this just isn't realistic.

I couldn't imagine the government of Vietnam taking the 'APEC' recommendation seriously. it's all theory and impractical to apply in a city like HCM. kinda like theoretical physics, you can't just implement anything simply because the equation say so. there are limitations and realistic expectations depended on the variables. let HCM grow organically, how can you compare it with other countries when it has only really developed in the last odd decade.

cossmo wrote:

Ottvantor wrote:

I can't help it but find reading this document like some kind of joke. compiled by Queensland University of Technology which probably just cut and paste from Australian Standards. so the idea is to apply a high quality of living standard like in Australia to a city like HCM. take one of the recommendation for example, wearing leather gloves, jackets and trousers can reduce injuries. imagine all the populous in HCM suiting up before riding down to get a hot bread or the xe om fella wearing all leather whilst waiting for his next customer; all in the name of road safety. lets use another example, 'enforcement', I think if the coppers starts fining everyone for breaking the law the whole city would be in goal. this just isn't realistic.

I couldn't imagine the government of Vietnam taking the 'APEC' recommendation seriously. it's all theory and impractical to apply in a city like HCM. kinda like theoretical physics, you can't just implement anything simply because the equation say so. there are limitations and realistic expectations depended on the variables. let HCM grow organically, how can you compare it with other countries when it has only really developed in the last odd decade.

Delighted that you took time to read the full report and comment - I agree with your criticism however the report also make that very point itself and highlights that western standards are not relevant for developing economies. The objective of the APEC - and many other reports - is to set a benchmark and then each economy can define "what does this mean to us and what aspects are practical". So in essence, it's first and foremost knowledge sharing and no doubt capacity building workshops have taken place in VN and other countries. VN government officials are part of the committee (usually the case). Without sharing best practices and lessons learned - regardless of how ridiculous they may seem in context of the VN situation - developing economies will struggle to understand pathways forward. VN would have likely sought consultation from relevant and similar APEC economies who have made progress on road safety such as China, Malaysia, Hong Kong and Taiwan (scooters are often called suicycles there). I lived on Bali for 6 months while advising APEC 2 years ago when Indonesia had the chair. They are very similar to VN and have made some progress and it's mainly tourists who don't wear helmets. In Indonesia all (?) helmets are the genuine ones and not the "plastic hats" that most VN use. Mandating a proper helmet is a recommendation in the report and would be a step forward for VN - I heard the government tried this recently and backed away but not 100% sure.
 
The executive summary also includes reference to "A previous report described important motorcycle and scooter safety issues across APEC economies and any current barriers that might exist in implementing potentially effective countermeasures". I don't have access to that report but it may be available online.

Cheers.

"  wearing leather gloves, jackets and trousers can reduce injuries. "
The sheila's practically do that already, even following the fashion trend now of wearing a long skirt OVER their trousers while riding????

Forget everything you know about traffic safety and do not assume anything. Most drivers ignore lights/speed and most traffic laws

If a large vehicle hits you and is in the wrong they are responsible for all your expenses and loss of income until you are fit for work.

If they run over you and kill you the cost to them is $2,000.00 USD. Not uncommon to see commercial vehicles run red lights at top speed.

Keep your eyes focused far ahead of you and be aware of your periphreal site at all times. Stay under the speed limit and keep a good distance between you and the traffic in front of you.

Drivers are never curtious unless you wipe out and then you will see many run to your aid to help you up. Its not all bad but personally I drive as little as possible and avoid rush hour so I can maintain Chi positive.

Good Luck! Stay Safe!

Ottvantor wrote:

I partially agree - we are guests for sure but we bring knowledge and wisdom on how it can be done safely that benefits Vietnam and the Vietnamese people. A big impediment to foreign direct investment by large corporations is infrastructure, transportation as well as health and safety practices. Vietnam has accepted and used over usd 90 billion in overseas aid over the past 20 years, some of the money was foolishly wasted by government on failed projects. As part of ASEAN, APEC, WHO, UN and other regional and global bodies, the Vietnamese government has undertaken certain agreements towards economic and social advancement including education as well as health and safety. Foreign direct investment is pouring in for infrastructure projects to build roads, light rail, bridges etc. and I know (guilt) money is coming from the French for HCMC traffic improvement. So lets' not be too passive on the topic.

On my way into Saigon from Bien Hoa there's a section of road that was funded by Germany if   that is the correct country. Vietnam put up toll booths and Germany reacted on Vietnam making money off it's investment so if anyone goes through those toll booths and wonder why no one is there to collect toll fees now you know why.

Also sometimes there's a traffic officer sitting/hiding behind these ghost toll booth. You have to signal if you're going through the toll booth otherwise he'll appear out of no where and fine you.

My driver calls what we refer flicking the turn signals as asking for permission. And it makes sense when I see traffic cops catch motorist coming off the off ramp. They have to signal right on any right bend and when they merge into traffic they have to signal left to ask for permission.

bluenz wrote:

"  wearing leather gloves, jackets and trousers can reduce injuries. "
The sheila's practically do that already, even following the fashion trend now of wearing a long skirt OVER their trousers while riding????

I think a proper helmet would save countless lives. But I get hassled a lot for carrying my helmet into stores. But leaving it on the bike it will always get knived off.

khanh44 wrote:

Ottvantor wrote:

I partially agree - we are guests for sure but we bring knowledge and wisdom on how it can be done safely that benefits Vietnam and the Vietnamese people. A big impediment to foreign direct investment by large corporations is infrastructure, transportation as well as health and safety practices. Vietnam has accepted and used over usd 90 billion in overseas aid over the past 20 years, some of the money was foolishly wasted by government on failed projects. As part of ASEAN, APEC, WHO, UN and other regional and global bodies, the Vietnamese government has undertaken certain agreements towards economic and social advancement including education as well as health and safety. Foreign direct investment is pouring in for infrastructure projects to build roads, light rail, bridges etc. and I know (guilt) money is coming from the French for HCMC traffic improvement. So lets' not be too passive on the topic.

On my way into Saigon from Bien Hoa there's a section of road that was funded by Germany if   that is the correct country. Vietnam put up toll booths and Germany reacted on Vietnam making money off it's investment so if anyone goes through those toll booths and wonder why no one is there to collect toll fees now you know why.

Also sometimes there's a traffic officer sitting/hiding behind these ghost toll booth. You have to signal if you're going through the toll booth otherwise he'll appear out of no where and fine you.

My driver calls what we refer flicking the turn signals as asking for permission. And it makes sense when I see traffic cops catch motorist coming off the off ramp. They have to signal right on any right bend and when they merge into traffic they have to signal left to ask for permission.

I read somewhere that the toll booths were intended as a city traffic control mechanism defined in one plan to improve HCMC but the reality of stopping traffic and having massive line up's to pay quashed the idea.

Ottvantor wrote:

Delighted that you took time to read the full report and comment - I agree with your criticism however the report also make that very point itself and highlights that western standards are not relevant for developing economies. The objective of the APEC - and many other reports - is to set a benchmark and then each economy can define "what does this mean to us and what aspects are practical". So in essence, it's first and foremost knowledge sharing and no doubt capacity building workshops have taken place in VN and other countries. VN government officials are part of the committee (usually the case). Without sharing best practices and lessons learned - regardless of how ridiculous they may seem in context of the VN situation - developing economies will struggle to understand pathways forward. VN would have likely sought consultation from relevant and similar APEC economies who have made progress on road safety such as China, Malaysia, Hong Kong and Taiwan (scooters are often called suicycles there). I lived on Bali for 6 months while advising APEC 2 years ago when Indonesia had the chair. They are very similar to VN and have made some progress and it's mainly tourists who don't wear helmets. In Indonesia all (?) helmets are the genuine ones and not the "plastic hats" that most VN use. Mandating a proper helmet is a recommendation in the report and would be a step forward for VN - I heard the government tried this recently and backed away but not 100% sure.
 
The executive summary also includes reference to "A previous report described important motorcycle and scooter safety issues across APEC economies and any current barriers that might exist in implementing potentially effective countermeasures". I don't have access to that report but it may be available online.

Cheers.

everyday HCM's economy runs on a motorcycle. implementing what is perceived as 'safety' benchmarks will slow this city to a crawl. the majority barely make a buck a day and probably take heaps risks just to put food on the table. do you think those people give a damn about whether or not he should have switched on his signal at the last turn?

we can probably list a million other things such as pollution, diseases, food, etc. I am pretty sure there are benchmarks there too. all these problems, yet funny enough we are all still here drinking our coffees and enjoying the local atmosphere. go figure.

cossmo wrote:

Ottvantor wrote:

everyday HCM's economy runs on a motorcycle. implementing what is perceived as 'safety' benchmarks will slow this city to a crawl. the majority barely make a buck a day and probably take heaps risks just to put food on the table. do you think those people give a damn about whether or not he should have switched on his signal at the last turn?

we can probably list a million other things such as pollution, diseases, food, etc. I am pretty sure there are benchmarks there too. all these problems, yet funny enough we are all still here drinking our coffees and enjoying the local atmosphere. go figure.

The topic is narrowly about "driving in Vietnam", not a million other things or about food, economics or drinking coffee. Many here seem to revel in the backwardness of the system here as "normal". Sure it's "normal" for Vietnam but the point I have made a few times is the situation here was experienced in other similar Asian economies who have all made significant progress. Vietnam has to do the same or risk economic stagnation, social frustration and many many dead and maimed locals and foreigners.

BTW: I'm out.....the topic has been beaten to death already.

Ottvantor wrote:

I do believe wrote:

A couple of years ago while visiting Canada I met a woman who was a consultant who had been hired by Vietnam to do an analysis on traffic in the area just south of HCMC where a new bridge was being built. I suggested a lot of problems could be solved if they would ban private cars and did she put that in her report. "What!" she exclaimed, "No I recommended that they reduce the number of motorbikes."  Contrary to Ottvantor's statement, I don't think we have knowledge and wisdom on how it can be done safely that benefits Vietnam and the Vietnamese people. The traffic condition here with the mix of types is unique in the world. The Vietnamese aren't poor uneducated farmers and condescending conversation is understandable but not helpful. The traffic chaos in Vancouver and every other North American city only demonstrates the West's traffic control impotence. In the West we are over regulated to the point of insanity and maybe, just maybe we could learn something from the Vietnamese.

Your conversation with 1 person in Canada is a generalization. Let me jog your memory; Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore and Taiwan were all in the same place as Vietnam and have moved forward in a way that's unique to their own cultural dynamics, infrastructure, capacity etc. Vietnam does not appear to be moving forward in any competent form to better manage it's roads and road safety record. 

As Vietnam is part of ASEAN, APEC, WHO, UN and a whole bunch of other international organizations, there are economic and social expectations as well as political commitments made at those tables (I was an advisor to both ASEAN and APEC up to recently) that Vietnam has committed to. Among those are infrastructure developments to ease trade including building roads, rail, ports and improving airports. Another is streamlining the movement of goods from the ports to point of distribution and consumption. Another is education and Vietnam has not fulfilled its commitments to APEC and no data is available at APEC on VN education.....Productivity is a vital factor for developing economies and having trucks with perishable goods take 7 hours to drive 100km and in an unrefrigerated vehicle is not good or healthy.

Vietnam has a long way to go and the way forward and lessons learned from traffic management, driver education and enforcement from all of the above economies should be widely available. Without the political will nothing can happen, without pressure from the international organizations and corporations (and expats) there will be no push to take action and get results.

. Sorry but I think that trying to squeeze Vietnamese motorists into a Western mold is fraught with dangers.

I also do not agree that Malaysia Singapore and Taiwan started the race in the same place Vietnam is Today, in fact Malaysian traffic is worse today than it was ten years ago despite billions being spent on traffic infrastructure. I could go on but despite the problems in Vietnam the traffic in Bangkok is worse .

Hello all

For info some posts that had nothing to do with this topic have been removed from this thread.

We remind members that our motto is helping and respecting others. If you are part of the community we expect you too to show these positive attitudes

Regards
Kenjee

I don't know how Americans can argue for Vietnam's safety when I see motorcyclists travelling 100+ km/h without helmet in the United States.

In Canada we wear full protective gear, knee sliders and air cushioned helmet. It just makes us feel braver to speed excessively and I have many friends that have died as a result or crashed heavily.

I don't see too much of this reckless riding style (speeding excessively and weaving through traffic) in Vietnam though most bikes are 110 - 125 cc's. As my relative said to me. Ride in a way to minimize serious injuries.

khanh44 wrote:

I don't know how Americans can argue for Vietnam's safety when I see motorcyclists travelling 100+ km/h without helmet in the United States.

In Canada we wear full protective gear, knee sliders and air cushioned helmet. It just makes us feel braver to speed excessively and I have many friends that have died as a result or crashed heavily.

I don't see too much of this reckless riding style (speeding excessively and weaving through traffic) in Vietnam though most bikes are 110 - 125 cc's. As my relative said to me. Ride in a way to minimize serious injuries.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges here. In the U.S. the helmet law is different from states to states. I don't think it is necessary to assume all American riders do not wear helmet as your post indicates. For example, in Texas you can ride without a helmet. However, in other states you are required to wear one. With regard to whether it is a wise choice to wear or not to wear a helmet while riding, that is a matter of a person's opinion. What this thread is about in my opinion is people in Vietnam (mainly the locals) do not obey the common sense and the rules (courtesy) of the road as observed in developed countries such as Australia, Canada, or the U.S. Whether this is fair to judge the thinking and mentality of the Vietnamese when it comes to operating a motor vehicle, I leave it up to you guys to decide. In the end, opinions are like assholes and everyone has one.

BINGO!!!!
" What this thread is about in my opinion is people in Vietnam (mainly the locals) do not obey the common sense and the rules (courtesy) of the road as observed in developed countries such as Australia, Canada, or the U.S. Whether this is fair to judge the thinking and mentality of the Vietnamese when it comes to operating a motor vehicle, I leave it up to you guys to decide. In the end, opinions are like assholes and everyone has one."

If so many of them are not courteous/respectful in their everyday lives, what possible hope of it is there for it to be expected on the roads??? Another probable difference is that in most western countries we are taught road rules at primary school, and hopefully courtesy and respect at home. ( much to my amazement , my school teacher wife said road rules are also taught in VN schools??? ),

courtesy and respect. Vietnamese people have those qualities.

I just came back from the Canada consulate today. I see the Vietnamese people that work there always give a big smile and greetings to the non-Vietnamese. To me they ask lots of questions and make it difficult. My wife says the same when I take her down to district 1. Everyone is all happy and nice when they spot a foreigner.

To their own Vietnamese people courtesy and respect goes out the window.

I would estimate that there are 50 to 60 BILLION beeps (honks) every day in Vietnam, yet more than 10,000 road deaths and probably tens of thousands of  serious injuries. Especially the motorbike beepers, their endless beeping appears only to represent a quite serious brain disorder and very little to do with safety. Most would probably stop doing it in 2 seconds if it was actually challenged but, of course, it isn't just like all other 'bad behaviou' - 'everything it okay', 'no problem' 'up to you' ,'don't care it' lol......and. oops, 'stick a plaster on it'

to BLUENZ  [above]

ah! come to north vietnam! no need to take off your helmet - even in a bank or a jewellers. i am wondering if some of the women up here take them off before showering or going to bed. fashion accessory? i don't know but it is a shame that they spend so much at the hairdressers and wear a helmet 12 hours a day.

helmets do not prevent accidents.

half of the helmets sold here do not prevent injuries.

wearing a helmet does not mean that it is safe to send sms while riding in heavy traffic.

A few off topic posts have been removed from this thread

True that horns don't work.. well.. they work sometimes, but if you need to get past of somebody they will not move.. Unless it is a truck horn that is! one reason why police siren is good. When you blip that they will move or stay away.

personally if i'm turning and somebody run red lights and try to cut you, i will stick my leg out and aim it to their front wheel.. they always get the point and stop.

and about those helmets, so true. very few would prevent injuries and even if they would its those loose chin straps or open straps that would flick the helmet off.

I personally will not leave my motorcycle helmet to bike unless I can see the bike all the time, I also never get any hassle if I carry my bike helmet. Well maybe in BigC, but I just say it's very expensive and will not leave it and continue in.

They want your money that's for the extra hot sauce (niceness)👍

Driving in Vietnam is a world class experience- The Vietnamese follow rules from China that date back many 1000's of years.  These unwritten rules are carefully adhered to and past down thru the families.  The West has many rules that are written down and are generally considered suggestions or completely ignored by the East.  So as the ancient rules never covered driving apparently it make sense that the law of the Jungle wood step in to fill the gap.  Might makes right- Large vehicles win in any contest of physics so are given the right of way.  If you appear to be drunk or driving like a madman then u 2 will also be given the right of way.  You as a driver are allowed to change lanes at will change your mind and U-turn in the middle of an intersection and take left and right turns from opposite sides of the street.  Welcome to the Jungle where radical freedom bumps up against radical responsibility.  At slower speeds the Vietnamese have a fish like system of moving flowing and turning in mass that is truly breathtaking to witness.  As a westerner that loves freedom above all else- this "system" works for me but for all others may I suggest a taxi?

felixthegato wrote:

Driving in Vietnam is a world class experience- The Vietnamese follow rules from China that date back many 1000's of years.  These unwritten rules are carefully adhered to and past down thru the families.  The West has many rules that are written down and are generally considered suggestions or completely ignored by the East.  So as the ancient rules never covered driving apparently it make sense that the law of the Jungle wood step in to fill the gap.  Might makes right- Large vehicles win in any contest of physics so are given the right of way.  If you appear to be drunk or driving like a madman then u 2 will also be given the right of way.  You as a driver are allowed to change lanes at will change your mind and U-turn in the middle of an intersection and take left and right turns from opposite sides of the street.  Welcome to the Jungle where radical freedom bumps up against radical responsibility.  At slower speeds the Vietnamese have a fish like system of moving flowing and turning in mass that is truly breathtaking to witness.  As a westerner that loves freedom above all else- this "system" works for me but for all others may I suggest a taxi?

Hmmmmm... this fellow seems to not only understand oriental history and  culture but has his head screwed on Straight   Please enlighten us more Oh sensei 

Seriously - In My Opinion if all of us could adopt the attitude and understanding of Felixthegato the local traffic would bumble along just fine, slowly making adjustments as needed and we poor expats would worry less and enjoy life more.
While I am a staunch advocate of the Western way of life not all good things came to from the west so trying to understand the Vietnamese way of life would not only make us more welcome but we just might enjoy life a hell of a lot more.

(Putting up the soapbox and slowly drifting back home)

Old Saigon Hand wrote:

Seriously - In My Opinion if all of us could adopt the attitude and understanding of Felixthegato the local traffic would bumble along just fine, slowly making adjustments as needed and we poor expats would worry less and enjoy life more.
While I am a staunch advocate of the Western way of life not all good things came to from the west so trying to understand the Vietnamese way of life would not only make us more welcome but we just might enjoy life a hell of a lot more.

(Putting up the soapbox and slowly drifting back home)

I always look forward to my adventures on VN roads, it tests my extra sensory predictions, and keeps my peripheral vision fine tuned, only problem now is we have a lovely new, practically 7 lane 12 km long highway to my " village ', boring as ......,  it's making me almost yearn for the old 1 1/2 lane accident prone road. ( 6 fatalities over last TET ).

My Vietnamese friends tell me how bad Vietnamese driving is. I reply that compared to the way people drove prior to 1975, the Vietnamese drive very well these days. I have a current valid Vietnamese Drivers License and drove in Viet Nam in 1971, 1972, 1974 and 1975, Japan in 1972, 1973 and 1974 and Thailand in 1971.

Be careful of cars/trucks/buses flashing thier lights at you...In the US when you flash your lights at another vehicle
it means "Ok you can go through"  In Vietnam  flashing lights means "Watch out a-hole, I ain't stopping"...Big difference

I Don't see Road Rage by self induced internal pressure like in Los Angeles, California. I see total ignorance and stupidity on locals making a left hand turn into oncoming traffic without looking. Little men in big trucks get show how MACHO they are by cutting everybody off everywhere but in real life we know the size of their thing. The Horn honking is ridiculous and if everybody was being respectful 90% of it would be eliminated. Saigon is so polluted by motorcycles that never had an OIL CHANGE. Cigaretts come first. No Laws needed because it is a Free for all and travel at your own risk. The main element missing is RESPECT for others. There are much better places to live as affordable as VN with no traffic issues but no PHO.  After driving here you begin to feel like your in a Fluid type of Organism, For how many people that are on scooters here it is safer that Los Angeles with all their laws, Cops,Ticket's and high Insurance. Go
Figure! The Slow speed with defensive technique is wondrous and marvelous. The Horns Suck but try to breed it out
of them!

no1eyeno wrote:

I Don't see Road Rage by self induced internal pressure like in Los Angeles, California. I see total ignorance and stupidity on locals making a left hand turn into oncoming traffic without looking. Little men in big trucks get show how MACHO they are by cutting everybody off everywhere but in real life we know the size of their thing. The Horn honking is ridiculous and if everybody was being respectful 90% of it would be eliminated. Saigon is so polluted by motorcycles that never had an OIL CHANGE. Cigaretts come first. No Laws needed because it is a Free for all and travel at your own risk. The main element missing is RESPECT for others. There are much better places to live as affordable as VN with no traffic issues but no PHO.  After driving here you begin to feel like your in a Fluid type of Organism, For how many people that are on scooters here it is safer that Los Angeles with all their laws, Cops,Ticket's and high Insurance. Go
Figure! The Slow speed with defensive technique is wondrous and marvelous. The Horns Suck but try to breed it out
of them!

We shall never give in.We shall never surrender!

The image is for entertainment and educational purposes only

@ no1eyeno The horns do have a purpose, you just haven't learned what it is yet. There will be some unnecessary blowing of horns because there are always "big dicks" around but for the most part the horn blowing is essential to safe driving. Your comment about it being safer to drive here than in large Western cities with their over abundance of rules and cops is so true. I would like to take any one of all those condescending expats who feel so superior and give them a chance to drive a city bus.

I worked in ER in Los Angeles and worked with the Quads on Life Support from motorcycle accidents. In America your invisible to destracted Eye Liner Girls, Texting Girls on the freeway, Dudes and their Starbucks and donuts who are in a hurry to the unemployment office to stand in line. I drive in Da Lat, Nha Trang, Da Nang, Dak Nong and Phu Quoq Island and never had an issue. I feel safe going with the flow and I find some courtesy on the traffic circles. I will never ride in the U.S. after what I've seen. The Horns are on my List for my Honda Forza NS 300 medium sized 200 Kilo Scooter. A duel air horn is fine with a compressor. When you hit your Horn did you ever notice how they Jump?  hehehe.   Horns in VN are to let the other guy know your there. In the U.S. the horn is to tell the other driver F_ _ K You!!!  Enjoy all the good things here and don't sweat the small potatoes. I'm Here for a Good Time not for a Long Time........................

I do believe wrote:

...I have met some expats who have been here for years and still can't drive properly. {snip} One complaint I hear often is the Vietnamese will enter a roadway without first making sure nothing is coming. When I hear that complaint I know that expat doesn't understand driving, physics or motorcycles...

I understand driving, physics, AND motorcycles and I have NO IDEA why it's okay in your world to enter a roadway without first making sure nothing is coming. Please explain.

I do believe wrote:

...To any newcomers to Vietnam who wish to reduce the risk of having an accident, one should learn the philosophy of driving here...

Please enlighten us, o wise one...

Cloud9 wrote:

With regard to whether it is a wise choice to wear or not to wear a helmet while riding, that is a matter of a person's opinion.

Did you mis-type? Or do you really believe this? If the latter, PLEASE explain how your un-helmeted head does when dropped off a scooter at 30 kph directly onto the soft loving embrace of the tarmac.

Cloud9 wrote:

Do people text and drive, ride, or bike in VN?

-JohnD- wrote:

Cloud9 wrote:

Do people text and drive, ride, or bike in VN?

[img align=L]http://www.worldwidetrainingassociates.com/Images/Texting.jpg[/url]

I've noticed many VN girls like to use their phones as mirrors as well. This one might even be talking a " selfie " ?

-JohnD- wrote:

Cloud9 wrote:

Do people text and drive, ride, or bike in VN?

[img align=L]http://www.worldwidetrainingassociates.com/Images/Texting.jpg[/url]

Surely you jest.

Not only do they text on the phone whilst driving;
they also hold a drink in a bag in the other hand while chatting to their friends on  bikes that are driving next to them.

All at the same time.
The next trend is juggling knives while watching youtube videos.

jimbream wrote:

-JohnD- wrote:

Cloud9 wrote:

Do people text and drive, ride, or bike in VN?

[img align=L]http://www.worldwidetrainingassociates.com/Images/Texting.jpg[/url]

Surely you jest.

Not only do they text on the phone whilst driving;
they also hold a drink in a bag in the other hand while chatting to their friends on  bikes that are driving next to them.

All at the same time.
The next trend is juggling knives while watching youtube videos.

But someone( you know who you are) will rationalise this behaviour,excuse it and chide you for daring to criticise it

"  give them a chance to drive a city bus."
What's the big deal with driving a city bus,  apart from the lousy wages, long hours that usually involve split shifts, working everyday of the week, ( dictated by your log book of course ), dealing with crazy passengers occasionally, ( especially late at night, there's quite often a reason why these people have to bus ), and can't forget the obnoxious school kids.
Many buses have a " Please Give way to the bus " sign on the back, ( or should have, not that everyone takes notice of that ), windows all round,  and usually an auto box, driving a semi around the city is definitely more of a challenge.
Driving a bus in VN would be a breeze compared to other countries.

-JohnD- wrote:

I do believe wrote:

...I have met some expats who have been here for years and still can't drive properly. {snip} One complaint I hear often is the Vietnamese will enter a roadway without first making sure nothing is coming. When I hear that complaint I know that expat doesn't understand driving, physics or motorcycles...

I understand driving, physics, AND motorcycles and I have NO IDEA why it's okay in your world to enter a roadway without first making sure nothing is coming. Please explain.

I do believe wrote:

...To any newcomers to Vietnam who wish to reduce the risk of having an accident, one should learn the philosophy of driving here...

Please enlighten us, o wise one...

Cloud9 wrote:

With regard to whether it is a wise choice to wear or not to wear a helmet while riding, that is a matter of a person's opinion.

Did you mis-type? Or do you really believe this? If the latter, PLEASE explain how your un-helmeted head does when dropped off a scooter at 30 kph directly onto the soft loving embrace of the tarmac.

In America you are allowed to make choices, buddy. Whether it's wearing a helmet or putting on a seat belt. It's an individual's choice to do so. Now if you bust your head open for not wearing a helmet that is completely on you for not following common sense. Read my statement again. I did not condone nor stated my preference of whether a person should or should not wear a helmet. Read carefully before you make assumption of my position on this topic.

To old one eye - you may be old (like me) but you are one of the very few who comprehend the simplicity and sense of the perceived chaos of driving in Vietnam. Horns in VN are to let the other guy know you're there. In the U.S. the horn is taken as an admonishment even when it is not.

@JohnD - "As quickly as you can...snatch the pebble from my hand." [JohnD tries and fails]
"When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to drive."