Diesel pollution from the buses in the larger cities

All that you think you know about emission controls mostly do not apply in many 3rd world countries including Ecuador.

GMC(SW) wrote:

For those who are curious, here is the data on that black stuff normally called soot, or smoke from a diesel engine.

This is a list of chemical components that have been found in diesel exhaust..

absolutely charming...

If you look at developing and third world countries anywhere on the planet public health concerns  that involve long term preventative measures, however inexpensive, ,usually come second to actual and often devastating health problems.

Think Cholera, AIDs, Malaria for starters. Infection control has been around for hundreds of years and is for the most part inexpensive. The techniques to reduce harmful  motor vehicle emissions have been around for almost 50 years. Genuine concern for the planet less than that. The driving forces to do anything meaningful  about the problem remain political and economic.

Climate change is undeniable and for the short sighted will ultimately  be exponentially more costly. Let's hope that there will be more political will to implement known solutions and finance research that might ameliorate some of the damage already done


As far as the West goes, with it's ability to pay for research, scientific development and advancements in medicine lays the burden to improve this capacity in all parts of the world. All of the money from philanthropic entities and NGO's will not provide long term solutions.

If there is acceptance and relative ignorance of  health problems in poor countries such as Ecuador (with cities like Quito) what can be said for wealthy countries like China where health risks are so obvious. I wonder if anything is or can be done at this point. What level of concern is this in one of three world super powers? And in the US the problems are still a matter of debate.....we are able to hide  regional issues and media attention is short lived for all but the most devastating environmental occurences

This is a very good topic you have raised, and one that has perked my concern as well from what I have seen over the years visiting Guayaquil. The air quality is so bad, especially around the bus terminal area. It is not getting better and I hope there are some activist groups around the country that can make some noise enough to create a national concern.

Here is a document I found when I Googled "environmental groups in Ecuador air pollution"
http://www.un.org/esa/agenda21/natlinfo … sphere.pdfhttp://news.utep.edu/?p=31050

I have seen first hand and experienced the massive pollution by these bus fleets in Cuenca and Quito.  i took a noon meal under cover of a local chain restaurant and barfed shortly afterwards from the overwhelming fumes of the street which had nowhere to escape except into the openings of buildings, primarily on the ground floor.  What did you have in mind as corrective action?
SCosgriff@Trenton.k12.nj.us
001 609 658 7869  Resident of Ewing NJ USA on holiday in Ecuador

Thanks for the links DRAK21

Wonder if rjwagner the OP is aware of this research

Thought most of the damage would be to the respiratory system...I suppose it makes sense that it contributes to other chronic diseases and cardiovascular damage

suefrankdahl wrote:

Thanks for the links DRAK21

Wonder if rjwagner the OP is aware of this research

Thought most of the damage would be to the respiratory system...I suppose it makes sense that it contributes to other chronic diseases and cardiovascular damage

Barfing is unhealthy and a waste of money in addition to above-mentioned problems.

A transitional situation is one that must be approached to have success in making a difference. Using existing infrastructure with a cleaner fuel supply (based on a different source) and possibly some minor upgrades to some of the current buses may allow for some forward movement. Trying to uproot the entire system and begin over is not a practical or economical approach. However, it is very apparent that action must begin now.

In 2013, I immigrated to Guayaquil, Ecuador from Canada, having had a lovely visit with friends in a suburb called LaJoya before. We found a fantastic apartment nearby, on the Via Samborondon. The pollution from buses and trucks was terrible. The dust in the apartment and the dirt on the Veranda unbelievable.  Moving to a small town in the mountains, I thought the air would be much better, but I was wrong. It was almost just as bad and I was much too close to the bus terminal. I live in Ambato now, 8,000 ft. up in the mountains. The main street, with heavy traffic is again unbearable for me, and although, Ambato only has 300, 000 inhabitants, compared to Guayaquil with 4,000,000 and Quito with 3,000,000, the pollution is pretty bad here, too. The buses and trucks spew out black exhaust and I have to turn my head and bury my face in my hands, to be able to breathe.  Quito was by far the worst with smog, one can actually see. The surrounding mountains do not let the pollution escape and I was literally choking in the lower parts of town. The North end of Quito seems to have better quality air for some unknown reason, and that is, were the financially "better off" live.  I like Ambato, though, and Ecuador has been one big adventure so far. As long as one is willing to accept the short-comings in a 3rd World Country, one can live here cheaply.  Another issue would be Noise Pollution. There seem to be no regulations in place. Ambato is also the cleanest place I have seen so far, except near and in the actual Barrios.

AmberFenton wrote:

Moving to a small town in the mountains, I thought the air would be much better, but I was wrong. It was almost just as bad and I was much too close to the bus terminal. I live in Ambato now, 8,000 ft. up in the mountains. The main street, with heavy traffic is again unbearable for me, although Ambato only has 300,000 inhabitants....

The North end of Quito seems to have better quality air for some unknown reason, and that is, were the financially "better off" live.

Mr. and Mrs. "Better Off" are likely driving cars, so the fact of fewer buses per-square-whatever may account for less diesel pollution in north Quito.

Let Amber's post be a cautionary tale for Expats.  If you're moving with an eye to escaping bus pollution, a place with 300,000 residents is not a "small town," and you need to find a place off the bus routes and nowhere near the bus terminals.

cccmedia in Quito

The buses certainly do cause pollution, but there is another source that is being overlooked in this conversation and one that it probably worse in terms of pollution. And that is diesel trucks owned by the locals and that are likely not maintained very well. These smell far worse than some of the buses do and they probably have no electronic controls. I would hazard to guess there are a lot more of these roaming around than there are buses.

Ok, Rockysroad educate me then...

What experience do you have to validate your statement? Do you currently work in the automotive industry in a 3rd world country? Is the internet you sole source of information, or is it based on heresay?

I do, currently work in the automotive transportaton industry, and I can tell you that there are increasing standards even for 3rd world countries. Not to mention the fact that smaller countries are being pressured to fall in line and meet common standards. Taking responsibility for their share of the pie.

Emission controls on any vehicle today are mandatory factory equipment. It is not an option you can opt out of, while some things can be worked around, but those days are falling away fast. The integration of electronic controls make it very difficult, even impossible to work around emission controls.   

Simply because a country does not follow or enforce established regulations, does not mean they don't exist.

I look forward to the justification of your statement. Game on....

GMC out.....

GMC(SW) wrote:

...Simply because a country does not follow or enforce established regulations, does not mean they don't exist...

Here in Cuenca they demand a yearly inspection for vehicles (including motorcycles and scooters) and do fail cars for emissions and other mechanical reasons.  Not having the inspection sticker at a traffic/police stop can result in the vehicle being impounded.

Buses and large trucks are inspected at another location.  Not sure what the regs for buses and trucks are, but from what I see on the streets here they may as well not exist.  I ride a scooter here in Cuenca and will do anything - short of driving on the sidewalk - to get from behind them.  I was in Quito last week and we went by several buses (new or newer from the how they looked) that had negligible exhaust.  So maybe the buses/trucks here in Cuenca are really old and have no integration of  electronic controls and maintenance is when it breaks, fix it cheaply...

There are viable solutions to the pollution problem.

It is true that early model diesel engines have fewer controls than newer ones do. A creative mechanic can disable and do work arounds on some systems. The result is heavier exhaust, more maintenance, and reduced engine life.

The foul smell is caused from a high sulphur concentration in the fuel. New diesel engines are supposed to use ULSD, Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel fuel. It leaves a cleaner engine, which relates to cleaner emissions. Can they run other diesel or fuels? Yes, but is has a negative impact on performance, maintenance, and emissons.

An older vehicle whick has thick black exhaust indicates engine wear, poor maintenance, and the use of poor quality fuel. It also may have been adjusted to run rich, more fuel which causes the heavy black exhaust. This is done to generate more power. The newer diesel engines still use the common catalytic converter, and also can have a DPF, Diesel Partical Filter, which traps larger particles. There are also systems which inject a urea solution into the exhaust to turn some chemicals into harmless water vapor. These are being used, by some bus companies in Quito. Some is better than none.

There are viable solutions to the many buses in use, light rail systems, elevated systems etc. There are two porblems however.

1. Quito being situated in the mountains, and the city layout make a rail system very difficult, but not imossible.
2. The major problem is the owners of the transportation services will not be eager to give up their cash cow in the name of health or the environment.

The easiest compromise I can see, would be to establish short electric rail lines where possible in the city. With the right capacity, these short lines could replace bus use in those areas. Together with newer model, cleaner running  buses in other areas could work. It would at least be a giant step in the right direction.

A short underground line is close to completion now, I am no engineer, but I don't think it is suitable for the whole city. Being in the mountains makes drilling a tunnel difficult expensive work, not to mention the potential for water intrusion caused by the rains, and the depth of the water table.  The other factor would be a suitable electrical infrastructure to support a rail system. They are moving to reduce gas usage and expand the use of electric stoves. 

As for the older trucks on the roads, it is fairly simple. The established emissions standards must be enforced. Period. What it would take to make that happen, is the question.

The problem in Ecaudor is not unlike the problem in every other country, money. Until good health and a clean environment are a priority, the money made by industry and transit will win. This is the very reason that countries who can end the reliance on petroleum don't. To much money is being made by oil rich land owners, refineries, car companies etc. It is not a matter of could we do it, it is simply a matter of we don't want to do it.

There has to be some Expat engineers and thinkers out there... How about some viable, realistic, solutions for Ecuador? Anyone?

Quito0819, thanks for your imput.

You are probably correct in your thought of older buses being used. The test station for trucks is different from the car station. To get through the process is mind boggling at best, it is easily an all day affair. Unfortunately, this does not always correlate to strict standards. In the end from what I can tell, it turns out to be all about the benjamins. I am sure Journeymanjack could tell many stories about this as he has to complete the same tests for the rig he uses to ferry Expats around the country.

The need for reapairs here is another issue.

You may have noticed that there are no recking yards here as in the U.S. where used parts can be bought. Most repair parts you get are new, and rarely refurbished parts which is common in the U.S. There are restrictons on used parts, and  the restrictons on imports makes it very difficult. The fact that repair parts are even more expensive and harder to find, it pushes would be mechanics to improvise when doing repairs. With the integration of electronic controls, it is difficult to make things 100%, which leads to problems not to mention unsafe vehicles.

For example, my Mother in law had a problem with her SUV. She took it to her favorite mechanic for reapair and because they could not get the part needed they opted to weld the damaged part. The fix while simple was not reflected in the repair price. Upon inspection by myself, I found an important part in the steering system had been shotily welded. It was a temorary fix at best, and I was shocked that they even did it. Being the resourcfull Son in law, I located a suitable relacement part from a wrecked vehicle which was for sale. It took some haggling, but I walked away with what I needed.

Since then I do all her maintenace and repairs, I now get a phone call after every little noise. But that's okay, I don't  mind doing it. Besides, as nice as our sofa is, I don't want to sleep there...  😕

GMC(SW) wrote:

A short underground line is close to completion now, I am no engineer, but I don't think it is suitable for the whole city. Being in the mountains makes drilling a tunnel difficult expensive work, not to mention the potential for water intrusion caused by the rains, and the depth of the water table.

The municipality is working through budgetary-funding issues, and the first segment of the Quito Metro is nowhere near being "close to completion."

To read about the mayor's grand vision for the Metro, in Spanish of course, and to keep track of what is being said and done about getting the project fully funded and built, go to
www.metrodequito.gob.ec

cccmedia in Quito

You are right about the trucks and even some cars. The buses and trucks actually spew black smoke from their exhaust pipes. I don't know, how Ecuadorians can stand it. They don't seem to care or even notice.  I have rented a small house at the far end of a large property, and I live in a suburb of Ambato, overlooking the city. There are buses and trucks passing by on the street, but the main road is further away, with much heavier traffic. Other than that, I really like this city, one of the cleanest, I have seen so far. It has a little bit of small town charm in the centre, with small parks and two larger parks with the Ambato river running through it.  There is also the view of the Tungurahua volcano and the other surrounding mountains. Spring-time weather all year round. My kind of place. Emergency bag packed for an eventual eruption of the volcano. It does not seem to matter where you live, there are always potential natural or human-made disasters. Life is full of bumps in the road. I deal with it and enjoy my time left on this planet, as much as possible, on a very limited CDN dollar pension.

Cccm,
Thanks for the link.I was wondering what the status was.

Yesterday there was an article in El Comercio on buses.  It stated that by a Cuenca municipal ordinance buses have a useful life of 12 years.  It further stated that in the rest of the country the average life was 20 years...meaning some are older than 20 years.

The article cited the poor service (no city mentioned) by bus drivers...fast starts...sudden stops and a churlish attitude towards the customers.  Bus drivers stated that the owner gives a number of times the driver must complete the route and the amount he must hand over to the owner before the driver makes a dime.  Which explains the screw you attitude towards the clients.

Privatized and almost unregulated (or unenforced regulations) do give rise to a bottom line, profit based mentality, and this discussion.

quito0819 wrote:

Yesterday there was an article in El Comercio on buses.  It stated that by a Cuenca municipal ordinance buses have a useful life of 12 years.  It further stated that in the rest of the country the average life was 20 years...meaning some are older than 20 years.

The article cited the poor service (no city mentioned) by bus drivers...fast starts...sudden stops and a churlish attitude towards the customers.  Bus drivers stated that the owner gives a number of times the driver must complete the route and the amount he must hand over to the owner before the driver makes a dime.  Which explains the screw you attitude towards the clients.

Privatized and almost unregulated (or unenforced regulations) do give rise to a bottom line, profit based mentality, and this discussion.

Service life of the bus is irrelevant. A new Chinese bus can have much worse emissions than a 20 year old Mercedes or Volvo. Emissions testing is all that's needed.

jessekimmerling wrote:

Service life of the bus is irrelevant. A new Chinese bus can have much worse emissions than a 20 year old Mercedes or Volvo. Emissions testing is all that's needed.

No argument there, just stated what was written.  The article also stated that most buses are fabricated here in Ecuador.  Don't remember seeing many Mercedes or Volvo buses.  I have seen way too many buses belching black, carcinogenic emisions to even count.  Interesting enough this morning I was passed by a yellow school bus (said ESCOLAR) about the size of an urban bus.  No emissions.  So it can be done.

rjwagner wrote:

. However, it is very apparent that action must begin now.

Al Gore said that 15 years ago.....it's too late for so many people and places.....good to know that people are still working on it and thinking about it

suefrankdahl wrote:

rjwagner wrote:

. However, it is very apparent that action must begin now.

Al Gore said that 15 years ago.....it's too late for so many people and places.....good to know that people are still working on it and thinking about it

“Every great scientific truth goes through three phases. First, people deny it. Second, they say it conflicts with the Bible. Third, they say they’ve known it all along.” —Neil Degrasse Tyson

Perhaps one of the most encouraging things is that shows like Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey, and scientists like Neil Degrasse Tyson are starting to become popular, and listened to. Now I'm far from being an astrophysicist, or anything close, but the fact that as a society we are actually starting to base decisions on scientific evidence is encouraging.

The technological growth in alternative energies is going to happen, and it's eventually going to become more mainstream, and more cost effective. Not really a question of if? Is more a question of when? You would thik the U.S. would want to be at the forefront of this revolution, but would appear we still have some people running the country who would prefer to still live in the dark ages.

j600rr wrote:

suefrankdahl wrote:

rjwagner wrote:

. However, it is very apparent that action must begin now.

Al Gore said that 15 years ago.....it's too late for so many people and places.....good to know that people are still working on it and thinking about it

“Every great scientific truth goes through three phases. First, people deny it. Second, they say it conflicts with the Bible. Third, they say they’ve known it all along.” —Neil Degrasse Tyson

. The technological growth in alternative energies is going to happen, and it's eventually going to become more mainstream, and more cost effective. Not really a question of if? Is more a question of when?.... we still have some people running the country who would prefer to still live in the dark ages.

Even more scary is people who would like to run the country who either deny it or can't admit publicly that there's a problem. The standard refrain  on query is  "I'm not a scientist" or the deniers that say the whole thing is just cyclical over time. After everything melts we'll just have another Ice Age I suppose. USA Today reported 2014 hottest year on record or maybe it was 2015 thus far. Didn't read the article just cringed when I saw the title.

It seems that since the establishment of the EPA  there are a few baby steps forward that cost some entity too much money and then get walked back. eg capping emissions. Weren't there economic incentives from US government?  Were the incentives not enough for the polluters or did those in the US government who walked it back not want to keep paying incentives? Am sure lobbyists had something to do with it.

I think a lot of it has to be determined by each individual state and maybe with some help from fed government (incentives) and private industry when it is costly. Think the coal states.

The state of Alaska for all it's oil revenues still subsidizes alternative energy in the small villages. Where I lived there were grants each year to help improve energy efficiency of individual homes. Now free solar panels are being provided.

If some of the wind farms that this administration subsidized were failures I think it prods private industry into "doing it right" for a profit to help get it off the ground. But as rjwagner points out the cost of infrastructure to make it work is  prohibitive in the short run then  how long are we willing to wait to have the political will to implement at least some of it? The inexpensive easy fuel fix is of course a great place to start


I live in a very green state (Oregon). Some of the farms provide most of their energy from wind. In the parking garages downtown there are plug ins for electric cars. The closest spots to the stores and restaurants. Most of our tax base is agriculture which is not that great now that logging is at a near standstill. The green busses here in the capitol are unfortunately barely making a profit... high fares and service cuts discourage ridership (no service on weekends) . But the state is invested in keeping itself green. Like Ecuador this supports the tourist industry.

In a place like Quito where most people can't afford a car any change that is inexpensive and will improve air quality is a great place to start. Longitudinal health studies which might be the add on to rjwagner's  research would be the first step to changing consciousness in countries where human life is valued.

Wish I didn't feel so discouraged. Time doesn't go fast enough for me regarding improvements to health which in my book represents the real quality (and quantity) of human life.

@Sue
Instead of copying your whole post, will just offer a quick reply. In a nutshell, the cost of alternative technologies is still expensive, and not as cost effective as running things on oil, and gas, but show me practically any advanced product that wasn't initially very expensive. Also show me practically any advanced scientific breakthrough, or technology that isn't some sort of spin-off, or didn't get it's start from government grant money. Hell, many of the big companies these days pretty much steal their ideas from government research, then they patent the idea, get huge tax breaks, and fleece the consumer with outrageous prices.

Not sure exactly when this notion came to be? Think maybe starting in the late 70's to early 80's that essentially two groups of thought came to be. The first group thinks only free enterprise can solve all of life's problems, and the second group thinks only government can solve all of lifes problems. Things used to be much more balanced, and the idea of tax payers money going into research, and development programs from the government was perfectly acceptable, as was the idea that many of those who were involved in government research, and development would eventually leave, and bring their knowledge, and expertise  into the free enterprise. Was a win, win. Great advancements were made on extremely complex expensive things that were unrealistic for any private enterprise to spend the money on, and when researchers were able to get things to reasonable prices the free market took over, and benefited consumers.

Leaving the whole environmental issue out of the equation. From an economic perspective, investing in upgrading Americas infrastructure, and energy needs is an investment that would pay for itself many times over in the years to come. Hell, it's already costing us far more now continuing with an oudated infrastructure, then it would if we actually made the investment to rebuild the infrastructure.

U.S. already has a huge debt, of which practically none of that debt was used to invest in the future of America. Truthfully, is investing a few trillion more on the future for things like infrastructure, education, and alternative energies really going to be the death blow? Personally kind of doubt it, the death blow will be refusing to make any kind of investment for the future.

j600rr wrote:

@Sue
the cost of alternative technologies is still expensive, and not as cost effective as running things on oil, and gas, but show me practically any advanced product that wasn't initially very expensive.. .

totally agree...The green busses here can't make any kind of profit...$2.25 for a ticket with free transfers. Don't know what the monthly passes are. The student passes are over $25 per month. We have a nutty government that can't see the forest for the trees. Maybe that's universal.

The bus terminal attached to a gov't office building had to be almost totally rebuilt....whoever got the contract to build it turned out to have cut corners about the composition of the cement and the whole thing threatened to come apart....taxpayer $$$ to build it..Consultants to figure out what to do....new contract to renovate it. Like anywhere in the 3rd  world.. corruption. The very popular Governor resigned two months after his reelection before anyone learned that he had thrown the contracts to friends and kept the oversight down on the original building. So bus fares had to go up and service to riders down. double whammy to the taxpayer.

j600rr wrote:

@Sue

Not sure exactly when this notion came to be? Think maybe starting in the late 70's to early 80's that essentially two groups of thought came to be. The first group thinks only free enterprise can solve all of life's problems, and the second group thinks only government can solve all of lifes problems.... Great advancements were made on extremely complex expensive things that were unrealistic for any private enterprise to spend the money on, .., when researchers were able to get things to reasonable prices the free market took over, and benefited consumers..

I

Because of my background I think of the CDC...we are a country that places high value on health and human life, like most Western countries and there are abundant resources

Research and development of pharmaceuticals is expensive. Supposedly it takes 11 years to recoup the cost of R&D before a new drug is approved by the FDA and can be marketed. It takes 11 years to go generic in the US. A patent expires usually from one of  the big US pharmaceutical companies  A rip off. Not so in Europe. The greatest most advanced pharmaceutical companies are Swiss. Our standards can be ridiculously high.

Correa successfully fought this with the contention that ,in matters of human health and life it was unfair which it is. So now pharmaceutical companies in EC can manufacture some of the latest drugs. The developers of HIV-AIDS drugs had their arms twisted with international pressure by WHO and some of the UN agencies because of the Africa problem

Most advanced medical research  occurs in big well endowed universities and laboratories. Think of all the latest Nobel winners. Patents are sold to the pharmaceutical houses to produce it.. I try to keep up with latest health news. One example I can give you is following the cloning of Dolly the sheep. Rings very true for your quote from Tyson about people thinking it went against the Bible. The implications were huge for stem cell research to make advancements for diseases like Alzheimers, Parkinsons and a host of others. Private research labs saw the handwriting on the wall  years ago and are well at work on patents.

Medical and scientific research feeds on itself.  Genetics goes back to the 17th century Gregor Mendel a monk who never made a dime to Watson and Crick for DNA in I think the  late 50's.In Europe, the great names Pasteur, Lister, Salk and so many others were into totally for the value of advancement of the human condition NOT money. And of course there were well connected nurses..Nightengale for infection control...."handwashing"..She never got much credit for it but it revolutionized surgery in 18th century Europe. We would still be getting gangrene if someone hadn't made the connection. Clara Barton of Civil War fame and the founding of the Red Cross. Dorothea Dix for improvements in mental health care in institutions in the US

As far as air pollution and car emissions would be interested to know who held the first patent on the catalytic converter. (the 70's ?).....Did he sell it to one of the big auto manufacturers or the US government who would have a paid a lot less for it. To our credit and that of our gov't it was made mandatory. Now we are so far out ahead of it.

Would kill to know who rjwagner is working with...I 'm sure it's a matter of patents, who's funding the research and insuring that whoever or wherever it was developed  gets paid for their efforts, time and money It's like a lot of scientific advancements to improve the human condition....  profit not necessarily the motive

j600rr wrote:

@Sue.

U.S. already has a huge debt, of which practically none of that debt was used to invest in the future of America. Truthfully, is investing a few trillion more on the future for things like infrastructure, education, and alternative energies really going to be the death blow? Personally kind of doubt it, the death blow will be refusing to make any kind of investment for the future.

Maybe I said it in my post #65 which was removed  by the team for review that it is easy to collect taxes... the problem being keeping track of where they go.....I feel as cynical as you do sometimes....but you are part of Gen X and the hope for the future... Us Boomers we just want to live out our lives and hope you can help straighten out some of the mess....it is not totally ours in the making just cumulative. ..Think it goes back to when we were born.

I am not being political but the way that "2016" is shaping up.....it makes me want to move to Ecuador...where politics are not subject to the scrutiny of the world stage and life is not so bad.

j600rr wrote:

@Sue
Leaving the whole environmental issue out of the equation. From an economic perspective, investing in upgrading Americas infrastructure, and energy needs is an investment that would pay for itself many times over in the years to come. Hell, it's already costing us far more now continuing with an oudated infrastructure, then it would if we actually made the investment to rebuild the infrastructure. .

Agree and have said it in a different way I guess....Think environmental factors are also part of the equation....I think of Hurricane Sandy because I am from that part of the country where there is a lot of money and for the most part progressive wise governance. We got here a long time ago so there's no excuse for getting it wrong.

In NYC where Sandy really did the most damage. Old infrastructure really came under the microscope and they have the money and Andrew Cuomo, for all his faults, to make big upgrades and scrap a lot of  the old worthless infrastructure. Don't know when it will be built but some kind of a huge levee or breakwater that will prevent water from coming into lower Manhattan is part of the plan. In CT you never heard a peep or barely saw the devastation to the Gold Cost. Plenty of money ( 2nd wealthiest after MA) and lots of idle contractors happy for the work. NJ speaks for itself.

So are Katrina and Sandy and superstorms yet to come part of climate change? I think so and maybe we couldn't have headed them off at the pass but at least some big repairs that were overdue got done and are getting done. We are short sighted in general.

I do hope that the gridlock and partisanship in DC will abate after 2016 and our electorate will come to it's senses about lots of things. I just can't help but wish that we had a more republican form of government like France or Italy where coalitions must be formed in order for a gov't to attain power and get things done rather than the schisms that are breaking apart our Congress now and have been able to accomplish so little for the citizens. Politics is theater everywhere on the planet but DC is truly theater of the absurd

Even an autocrat like Correa has been able to mobilize and protect his people to a great extent from Cotopaxi with seeming efficiency. As well, the Ring of Fire  is not a man made disaster. In general the Pacific Rim countries have adapted, made allowances for and learned by their mistakes (including the US) about living on it. And getting infrastructure improvements was not like pulling teeth. I dunno maybe because the loss of human life was and potentially remains huge.

Hi everybody,

Let's avoid drifting this discussion off topic please !

Thank you,

Priscilla

On a maintenance note,

A transportation company here in Quito had an incident this past Saturday. Apparently the bus while on the road had what is referred to as "Wheel Runoff" or "Wheel Off". This occurs generally when the lug nuts which hold the wheels on the axle are sheared or broken off allowing a wheel or wheels to to go "Walkabout" on their own.

This is a very dangerous situation as a wheel can weight 150-200 pounds and at 55 MPH will destroy a full size car. The bus sustained damage when two of the rear wheels on one side came off. One wheel has not been found as of yet.

This kind of event speaks directly to maintenance or the lack there of. The studs, being metal will stretch to a point when a nut is tightened down. This is acceptable and what keeps the lug nuts tight. But, when the lug nuts are tightened beyond the elastic strength of the stud they break or shear off. This is a clear indication that when the wheels were installed they were not tightened to the proper torque specification, resulting in an over torque situation causing fatigue of the metal and the result is loss of the wheel or wheels, loss of control and letting loose one or two 150-200 pound missile hazards.

The investigation is ongoing....

POSSIBLE GOOD NEWS ??

Tariff benefits for bioethanol production
Publicado el 08 Sep 2015Por : Mercedes Cabrera
biotenal-ecuadortimes-ecuadornews

The Ministry of Foreign Trade approved the import of equipment needed for the production of bioethanol.

At the request of a company, with which the state signed an investment agreement for the safeguards and tariffs exemption affecting the import of machinery that would be used for distillation and the production of biofuel, the Comex decided to adopt a general measure to defer at 0% ad valorem the import subheadings related to this industry. In particular those dedicated to the distillation, a process needed to acquire nationwide the Ecopais gas.

Source: http://expreso.ec/expreso/plantillas/no … amp;tipo=2

This could be a potential save for the air quality in Ecuador. We will have to watch and see how long it takes, if implementation occurs and how things actually pan out.

GMC(SW) wrote:

This is a clear indication that when the wheels were installed they were not tightened to the proper torque specification, resulting in an over torque situation causing fatigue of the metal and the result is loss of the wheel or wheels, loss of control and letting loose one or two 150-200 pound missile hazards.

One of the funniest, most bizarre things I've seen. Is only funny because the guy was not injured. Really do see how lucky he was, and how dangerous a runaway tire can be. Would have to be one of the most bizarre ways to die. Again, no one was injured in this clip, so instead of tragedy, it winds up being quite humorous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvwOh-tlyJU

Bit of information on bio-fuels, and on the possibilities of algae that I mentioned in a previous post.

http://biofuel.org.uk/third-generation-biofuels.html

On a side note/rant. The IMF (not my favorite organization), but have estimated that world governments are subsidizing the Oil and Gas industries to the tune of 5.3 trillion dollars a year.

Found a fun and informative new site. Can go to the subsidy tracker and find all kinds of good information. Funny how all the big Oil Companies throw a hissy fit when any type of alternative energy gets a subsidy, but in reality they are the ones getting the largest subsidies.

http://www.goodjobsfirst.org

j600rr,

It is well known and has been going on for a very long time. Many Governments the U.S. included have found viable and reliable sources of energy, which could totally replace petroleum.

They are reluctant to acknowledge and especially to endorse any other form of energy, for one very simple reason. To many people are making far to much money to allow any form of replacement. It's as simple as that. Despite all the negative aspects of petroleum energy, a huge amount of money is blinding them to any alternative. It is clearly killing people and the planet, the addiction of money which equals power is hard thirst to quench.

It's a sad thing, and may never change.

You have a really good point there.  I live on a street with a bus line, and a lot of trucks come along this way as well. The house I am renting is set at the back of a long and narrow property, so I do not get all the noise, but walking on a broken up side-walk, with the emissions from buses and trucks, is a rather hazardous undertaking. I have taken to turn my whole body away from a passing bus or truck, since the exhaust from those vehicles is black and chokes me. I am from Canada, and just not used to not being able to breathe, when a bus passes by.  I then put my hands over my face and try not to breathe in, until the bus has gone about 20 or 30 ft. down the street. It's a shame, really, this country is beautiful. I live in Ambato, high in the mountains, close to Quito. I get along pretty good with the people, although my Spanish is not great.

GMC(SW) wrote:

j600rr,

It is well known and has been going on for a very long time. Many Governments the U.S. included have found viable and reliable sources of energy, which could totally replace petroleum.

They are reluctant to acknowledge and especially to endorse any other form of energy, for one very simple reason. To many people are making far to much money to allow any form of replacement. It's as simple as that. Despite all the negative aspects of petroleum energy, a huge amount of money is blinding them to any alternative. It is clearly killing people and the planet, the addiction of money which equals power is hard thirst to quench.

It's a sad thing, and may never change.

Completely agree with that analysis GMC. Suppose the basic point I was trying to make is that the argument constantly being levied by anti-alternative energy groups is that it's not economically viable, and while will openly admit that is a true statement to a point, also find it a bit misleading. Only recently has some serious money started to be given to alternative energies, and predictably there has been progress technologically, and price is becoming more competitive. It's a bit unfair, when the money given to the fossil fuel industries far exceeds that given to renewable energy, and typically anytime money starts to be given to renewable energy, a particular party consistentely slashes it's funding, for people to then claim how economically unviable renewable energy is. At least have a fair playing field. Is kind of like tying a person up, tossing them into the water, and claiming they can't swim.

Not saying the game will change, and fully understand the game. Only pointing out how rigged the game is.