Tips and advice to thrive in Vietnam

Start drinking heavily.

Well said, O (Zen?) Master...

..for if we stay inbibed, problems cannot exist....    For the rest of us, attitude.   As Socrates was held to have said; a citizen of the world...    The Global Village agrees.   There is no (real) 'culture shock', only y/our biased beliefs entrenched by 'them'.   Many (most?) minions - and the harnessed herd only dimly understand the true meaning of doublespeak devolved into the weasel words politicians use to gather their votes.   'Their' drug is the approval we unquestionly give 'them', as appointed guardians of our (collectively avoided) responsibility.

..but then, who (would dare?) wear a swimsuit to the office on a hot & humid day..?    Social approval keeps (most of) us in line with rite, ritual and dogma.   Us odd few lateral thinkers are classified as weird.

Inevitably, the future holds promise of change.   The one true absolute.   So cling to y/our ideals.   The real question is not if, only when.   2,500 years (and counting!) later, I often wonder what Socrates would say of y/our progress in the world of today.

We are all the unique and individual drops of water that are the sea of humanity.   So there is no 'foreign', only often envious neighbours..     Ego has a lot to answer for...       .

@Bazza139

And so what are your answers to the questions raised in post #1 from Priscilla.

We need to make sure posts do not get off topic.

Agreed.   A (sad?) case of advanced thunking...

..and it was Viktor Frankl who gave us all the answer: attitude.   ('Beyond the chains of Illusion')

But I agree, in this 'Brave new World'  - of entitlement, many (most?) people bring their own value systems with them instead of appreciating the differences.  In short; open the door to your mind before you open the door to the world. 

  ..note to self: stop preaching to the choir...   (Apologies)

Priscilla, Both Bazz and Matt have Stumped up a couple of 'Pearlers' and they are spot on

Have an open minded attitude that accepts the difference in Culture that you will encounter, be patient, let your sense of humour flourish, smile happily and make sure to have a drink with the locals at their local. It also goes down very well if you make a serious attempt to learn Vietnamese.

mikeymac is correct - as is Bazza. The problem with integration in any society is that everyone is unique and so copying aspects like dress, mannerisms and so on tend to be unhelpful. Learning the language is a big plus and learning the names of places around the country goes down very well. Having a cast iron liver for when they take it in turns to try to get you drunk is another must.

My new wife's family had a little get-together during Tet. Two uncles and an aunt came over. My wife and her sister produced over a dozen kinds of food. The plates were spread out in the middle of the floor of the front room, and the men gathered around, cross-legged. Ouch. I would describe the conversation as more like yelling than talking. I barely understood anything of course but they were nice. The women found peace and safety similarly huddled in the other room.

The men had assembled a large stack of beer and were very generous with it. I was nursing my ice beer at about a 1-to-three ratio to their refills. I had brought a bottle of wine, a regular red french vin ordinaire that I had been given at christmas. The relative didn't have a wine opener, and gave it to his son. The bottle came back with a wood screw driven into the cork so that it could be pulled out. With ceremony, I was offered a drink in a tiny glass. I sipped it - no, they motioned, throw it back! So I did. Then the (shot) glass was refilled and passed back and forth to each person. After one round, they went back to beer and much animated talk.

A while later my wife rescued me from the hard floor and watery beer and yelling. She told me the men didn't like the wine, it was too weak. Apparently they had never had wine before, which is around 12% alcohol. They thought that I had brought brandy/cognac which is 40% or more.

Moral of the story: it takes time to adjust to a new culture. You learn by doing even if the floor makes you sore and the food looks strange. Plus, it works both ways. I am going to bring them a real wine opener and a sweeter wine next time.

gobot wrote:

My new wife's family had a little get-together during Tet. Two uncles and an aunt came over. My wife and her sister produced over a dozen kinds of food. The plates were spread out in the middle of the floor of the front room, and the men gathered around, cross-legged. Ouch. I would describe the conversation as more like yelling than talking. I barely understood anything of course but they were nice. The women found peace and safety similarly huddled in the other room.

The men had assembled a large stack of beer and were very generous with it. I was nursing my ice beer at about a 1-to-three ratio to their refills. I had brought a bottle of wine, a regular red french vin ordinaire that I had been given at christmas. The relative didn't have a wine opener, and gave it to his son. The bottle came back with a wood screw driven into the cork so that it could be pulled out. With ceremony, I was offered a drink in a tiny glass. I sipped it - no, they motioned, throw it back! So I did. Then the (shot) glass was refilled and passed back and forth to each person. After one round, they went back to beer and much animated talk.

A while later my wife rescued me from the hard floor and watery beer and yelling. She told me the men didn't like the wine, it was too weak. Apparently they had never had wine before, which is around 12% alcohol. They thought that I had brought brandy/cognac which is 40% or more.

Moral of the story: it takes time to adjust to a new culture. You learn by doing even if the floor makes you sore and the food looks strange. Plus, it works both ways. I am going to bring them a real wine opener and a sweeter wine next time.

Oh boy can I relate to that story!

I can no longer sit cross legged on the floor as my arthritic knees don't allow me to (piles, backs and knees's are soldiers diseases!). So I get given the plastic chair. Now those plastic chairs spend a lot of time in sunlight. The UV content of the sunlight makes the plastic brittle over time and so with a loud splintering noise as the chair disintegrated under my 6 foot frame, I found myself like a stranded cockroach on my back limbs waving helplessly in the air with the sound of raucous laughter in my ears.

And yes, watery beer. All part of the rich tapestry of life.

Edited to add: Look out for those who try to show you that they are socially inferior to you by, when you touch glasses and say cheers, making sure that the rim of their glass is below the level of yours. Then there are those who see you as an equal and go glasses rim to rim. And of course those who think they are superior and hold the rim of their glass above yours.

Small points and most westerners never notice them.

This is turning out to be a most interesting and informative thread.  Forget wine, bring French brandy. in Australia, Vietnamese friends invited me to dinner and, knowing that VN men like French brandy, I took along a bottle of St Remy. What surprised me was the every male arrived with a bottle of St Remy and they drank the lot !

A VN relative once came for lunch and I offered him some white wine. He drank it, dismissed it as lolly water, and finished off most of the two litres by himself, while I went and worked in the garden. He had a hangover for two days. I said to my wife, "But we didn't drink so much."  She answered, 'Ah, but after you left he also drank a bottle of port." 

A word of warning: don't join their drinking games at weddings. They aim to get you drunk. 
I, too, agree with the comments above: mix with Vietnamese, be accepting, learn their language and  have a thoroughly good time. 

Ralph

ralphnhatrang wrote:

This is turning out to be a most interesting and informative thread.  Forget wine, bring French brandy. in Australia, Vietnamese friends invited me to dinner and, knowing that VN men like French brandy, I took along a bottle of St Remy. What surprised me was the every male arrived with a bottle of St Remy and they drank the lot !

A VN relative once came for lunch and I offered him some white wine. He drank it, dismissed it as lolly water, and finished off most of the two litres by himself, while I went and worked in the garden. He had a hangover for two days. I said to my wife, "But we didn't drink so much."  She answered, 'Ah, but after you left he also drank a bottle of port." 

A word of warning: don't join their drinking games at weddings. They aim to get you drunk. 
I, too, agree with the comments above: mix with Vietnamese, be accepting, learn their language and  have a thoroughly good time. 

Ralph

Don't join their drinking games....... Which go like this. Bloke 1 comes up to you and does cheers and says 50%. So you drink 50% of your glass. The next bloke comes up and says cheers, 50% and so it goes on until every bloke has drunk 50% of his glass with you. You have then drunk, say 10 half glasses of beer, or about 2.5 liters. each bloke has drunk half a glass. You are elephants.

Strategy: Always make sure that your glass has a very large lump of ice in it. Top it up with beer (yeah I know, ice in beer is an abhorrence, but TVB - Thats Vietnam Baby!). The next bloke who says cheers 50%, just shake your head and say 100% and down whats in your glass. Not much, its mainly ice. You can do this time and time again with multiple blokes and still remain sober while they get red faced and shouty.

Bin there dun that....

Matt,
Yes, I've done that, too.  But these days I completely decline to join their drinking games by saying, "Không, nười Úc không như thế. Chúng tôi uống từ từ .- No Australians don't drink like that. We drink slowly."  Rather surprisingly, even the drunks accept that and don't press me further.

Which brings me to another point: I never drink alcohol in VN with strangers, who usually want me to pay for all their drinks.   If they are insistant, I just say, "No, thank you. I have to go after I finish this beer." It save a lot of problems.

I never drink with strangers and made that rule a long time ago.

a bit in reference to the above, but seriously:
practice to sit crossed legged on the floor and on very small and low plastic chairs, as usually used in smaller coffee shops and restaurants, for extended periods of time

dining out and also drinking game are important in Vietnam:
be very attentive!! - serve others. Don't bring along personal issues or anything other problematic but have and be fun!
people will fill your glass for you again before it is empty. Do the same, serve others. That not only goes for drinks, also for the shared food, lighting a cigarette asf.
it's my friends for whom I pay, it's one thing to learn here, it's not 'clever' to get away without paying or paying less as one may think from where 'we' come from , but it's a joy to be in the position to pay, and as expat we better are, and to be generous, at least if you are with the right people or with someone you consider friends. Pay and be humble, look down for the fraction of time where you might feel tempted to feel proud, and let it be over by then, with some practice that fraction of time will disappear and you will be doing fine. You don't have to pay always, people remember and will try to keep a balance, but better make sure that you, as an expat, stay on the 'more paying' side. It will give you status and respect.
it's rather the young and strangers that will press you to drink more, the more 'experienced' take it easy

Don't hang out with expats all the time. Seek the company of locals and speak Vietnamese at least 1-2 hours every day. Be tolerant.

After a short while (1-2 years) you'll know enough Vietnamese to speak relatively fluently with everyone (except those from Ha Noi or Huê, who insist on talking funny).

Don't try to tell everyone what the Vietnamese could do to improve their country, traffic, education, health care, littering habits, killing barking dogs, etc. etc. ad nauseam. It's their country, you're merely a guest.

And yes, there are other topics besides the above and how to get a new visa on the cheap.

Watch and learn, ask questions if a translator is available.  Follow the lead - this is a good one, if people push in front of the line, then I do the same, I learn fast.

When all else fails - put on the angry face and yell, everyone scatters.

I like the Visa run - chance to escape with a reason. But I also maintain friendships overseas and this gets me back to reality.  Whilst saving money in Vietnam, I can plan trips to other locations.

Smile occasionally, and stay positive, after all, you could be living somewhere else........

No Star Where!
No Table!

Enjoy the translation to Tieng Viet by your Pal.

Some great tips here, thx!

eodmatt wrote:

Strategy: Always make sure that your glass has a very large lump of ice in it.

Excellent, I am doing this.

anderle wrote:

People will fill your glass for you again before it is empty. Do the same, serve others.

Good advice, I will participate instead of being a passive foreigner.

Minhnt wrote:

Don't try to tell everyone what the Vietnamese could do to improve their country, ... killing barking dogs, etc.

Awesome, didn't know it was ok to do that. I assume I can kill roosters too.

I've heard all the above for years..., I did not come to Vietnam to 'have fun', and have seen many end up drunk and not feeling too good the next day. 
I can remember back nearly 12 years teaching the mangers of Petro Vietnam...an after class event where some 30 or so employees and the four of us foreigners getting together to have a 'seafood' event. 
I drink socially, two at tops of a mixed drink, or wine.  I can handle it, but do not care to cloud my mind and have only been 'drunk' once in my life.  I don't smoke and dislike the smell on my clothing from being around those that do...
So, dinner went off very well with many different foods to eat.  I filled my plate once, finished it off, several sips of a half glass of beer and one quick shot.  About 40 minutes after arriving, I was ready to leave...loud music in the background, everyone talking at the same time, smoke and far too many "YOOHs, which I did not take part in.  I then left. 
There was another 2 or three events lined up afterwards over a couple of months, and I did not attend any of them.  For me, it was a good learning tool.  Weddings, funerals, birthdays and even school events...not interested.  Send an envelope, flowers or even a 'quick' stop and run. 
After a dozen years, I still don't socialize at bars, coffee shops or squat on those little chairs with my knees up to my chin...far too much noise, smoke and have no desire to be yelling back and forth.  I just don't care to socialize like so many others...with Western or Locals...besides, I've got better things to do with my time...work.
As to any of you out there questioning such...I did not socialize back in the States either.  Once a month several of us would get together at a steak house for dinner, talk shop, eat, have a drink or two and depart.  I was a 'workaholic' in the States and like to be the same here.  I don't make the time to become 'friend' or 'have fun' as so many are always saying.  I like Vietnam, for its weather, beaches and affordability.  It is close to several countries for ease of travel and many interests.
I do the 'once a month' routine here with students...but on my terms and it has thus far been a good thing...nothing more than a glass of wine with dinner and none thus far smoke.  I pick up the tab as it is my invite.  Pizza Hut, B&R for ice cream, or to Al Fresco's.
I'm a 'guest' in this country...I treat others with respect...but that does not mean I have to engage with them.  I enjoy my surroundings most of the time and when it is not suited, I leave...if they don't like me for that, then they can ask me to leave.

Don't fight cultural differences enjoy them.

When you get frustrated or mad let it go and wait 24 hours, usualy in hind sight you realise it was just miscommunication.

Focus on the benefits you enjoy not the occasional disagreements.

Remember in most cases we are expecting the other person to speak our language and sometimes they are just tired or fed up with speaking our language. Imagine if we had to speak Vietnamese for 16 hours a day.

Learn about Vietnamese history and culture you can quickly know as much or even more than most Vietnamese and when they realise how much you know about their country & culture, they will treat you with more respect.

Read: "When Heaven & Earth Changed Places". "Last Night I dreamed of Peace".

Watch on Youtube: "VIETNAM American Holocaust". "Vietnam history" (Story of an S Shaped Country)

Remember the American war on Vietnam only finished in 1974, 41 years ago and Vietnam is still paying a high price in many different ways. It is also easy to forget that Vietnam is still a communist country.

Love Vietnam, embrace the good and bad. Appreciate Vietnam rapid development and emergence as a modern country.

Priscilla

First ; find a gift , this is a person that has lived here for decades and will be like an Uncle or Aunt to you.
Treasure.
Second: DO , yes do go to the get togethers offered through the Expat.com site. The people you meet will inspire and motivate you , in thee least you will become a part of a larger community of growth oriented and open minded fellow travellers.
Third: Enjoy local cuisine and the kindness of the people that offer it to you. Remember ; many times that same dish warmed the heat of a tired youth at home, so more than likely your eating the fond memories of some one's mothers lovely dish. Enjoy.

Last; before you open your mouth communicate. Non Verbally, take the terrain , and the culture, the language of the persons you see in unspoken words, in the movement and color. Learn to know without speaking , and when that Bottle Recycler lady ... has trouble with her cart in the street , HELP HER.
Just stop and be kind.  It builds character, and humility is never out of style.
Being Human is so wonderful.  Enjoy : Christopher ~ 

This is good advice.

I was too young to fight in the American War, and the Elder Vietnamese I speak to do not hate Americans. They fear : China the 4000 year war.  War aside, yes learn about the culture of Vietnam , and focus on the depth of it. We Westerner's want to pretend this culture started with us in the 1960's and we largely define it.
No.
You speak to the Skate Board Kid's 15 year olds and they have a mature and totally different view of their Nation than a jaded Western Intellectual does. Remember the West stops here , and the New East starts.

Vietnam is a thriving growing collection of cities , and hamlets that is become a thriving nation , and yes they are proud of it, they should be.

So when here see beyond the typical Western theatre of the mind. Go East.... then you will begin to understand.   Chris.

One of the biggest problems ex-pats face in adapting to Vietnam is trying to change Vietnam and its people to suit the western perspective.
This is a fatal mistake.
A phrase that came to me after my first few years was "Different is not wrong."
Realize that Vietnam and Vietnamese people ARE different to the west, and embrace that difference and enjoy it.

The second bit of advice I found the hard way is "Learn enough of the language to survive".
Vietnam is NOT an English speaking country, and ex-pats who try to make it so (and fail), miss out on a great treasure, and ultimately leave with the idea that Vietnamese have nothing to give to the westerner.

By learning some of the local language, some of the culture becomes obvious, and the complex and poetic nature of the Vietnamese people comes out strongly.

My two cents worth, and I survived in Vietnam for some 16 years, and although I have now left, I still consider it my real home, and believe I will never again fit into western culture.

First learn two words/phrases in Vietnamese

Xin lỗi "excuse me" also works as "sorry"

Cám ơn "thank you"

No one in Viet Nam expects foreigners to speak Vietnamese. But, knowing these two words marks you as someone who is interested in and cares about Vietnamese as real people.

My 2 Xu

A Xu is a discontinued Vietnamese currency worth 1/100th of a Dong

70 years old wrote:

First learn two words/phrases in Vietnamese

Xin lỗi "excuse me" also works as "sorry"

Cám ơn "thank you"

No one in Viet Nam expects foreigners to speak Vietnamese. But, knowing these two words marks you as someone who is interested in and cares about Vietnamese as real people.

My 2 Xu

A Xu is a discontinued Vietnamese currency worth 1/100th of a Dong

Not to mention: Troi Oi (Choi Oi) meaning  Oh my God. The Vietnamese use this phrase for anything at all from Tro Oi, I've missed the bus, to Troi Oi there's been a terrible accident.

I meet them firstly.  And talk together quite long time.

Starting with General Hall More and his book, "We Were Soldiers Once" the Vietnamese National Archives have started to open up. This has continued with the research documented in "Hanoi's War" by Lien-Hang T. Nguyen.

http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book … le_id=2850
Available on Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Hanois-War-Intern … oi%27s+war

and

"Hanoi's Road to the Vietnam War, 1954-1965" by Pierre Asselin

Available on Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Hanois-Road-Vietn … +1954-1965

The actual cause of the War is complex and not one sided. Lê Duẩn, a person that I admire very much as a fellow Soldier, but, as even his most loyal allies seem to agree, Lê Duẩn was far to ridged in his thinking and shares the blame with JFK and LBJ for the War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%AA_Du%E1%BA%A9n

The Wikipedia article on Lê Duẩn is rather biased in Lê Duẩn's favor and neglects to mention that Lê Duẩn placed Ho Chi Minh under house arrest for Ho's final years(referance "Hanoi's War"). Nor does it mention that almost immediately after Lê Duẩn's death, Viet Nam adopted "Đổi Mớ," a direct repudiation of Lê Duẩn and his policies.

"Moreover, one of the important developments which provoked change was the death of Party Secretary, Lê Duẩn, in July 1986.[5] Long time party leaders including Lê Duẩn, Trường Chinh and Pham Van Dong were deemed attributed to part of the crisis of Vietnamese state socialism.[5] As a result, the Sixth Party Congress elected as Party Secretary more liberal Nguyễn Văn Linh at the Sixth Party Congress in December 1986."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doi_Moi

Also discussed in detail in "Hanoi's War" by Lien-Hang T. Nguyen.

This seems to be a fair article and reading it will give most people a greater insight into today's Viet Nam

Sam

70 years old wrote:

Starting with General Hall More and his book, "We Were Soldiers Once" the Vietnamese National Archives have started to open up. This has continued with the research documented in "Hanoi's War" by Lien-Hang T. Nguyen.

http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book … le_id=2850
Available on Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Hanois-War-Intern … oi%27s+war

and

"Hanoi's Road to the Vietnam War, 1954-1965" by Pierre Asselin

Available on Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Hanois-Road-Vietn … +1954-1965

The actual cause of the War is complex and not one sided. Lê Duẩn, a person that I admire very much as a fellow Soldier, but, as even his most loyal allies seem to agree, Lê Duẩn was far to ridged in his thinking and shares the blame with JFK and LBJ for the War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%AA_Du%E1%BA%A9n

The Wikipedia article on Lê Duẩn is rather biased in Lê Duẩn's favor and neglects to mention that Lê Duẩn placed Ho Chi Minh under house arrest for Ho's final years(referance "Hanoi's War"). Nor does it mention that almost immediately after Lê Duẩn's death, Viet Nam adopted "Đổi Mớ," a direct repudiation of Lê Duẩn and his policies.

"Moreover, one of the important developments which provoked change was the death of Party Secretary, Lê Duẩn, in July 1986.[5] Long time party leaders including Lê Duẩn, Trường Chinh and Pham Van Dong were deemed attributed to part of the crisis of Vietnamese state socialism.[5] As a result, the Sixth Party Congress elected as Party Secretary more liberal Nguyễn Văn Linh at the Sixth Party Congress in December 1986."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doi_Moi

Also discussed in detail in "Hanoi's War" by Lien-Hang T. Nguyen.

This seems to be a fair article and reading it will give most people a greater insight into today's Viet Nam

Sam

Thanks Sam! Some very interesting stuff there.

Just as an aside, I was a young soldier in the British army in Iserlohn, Germany when Operation Rolling Thunder started. I remember sitting on my bed listening to the accounts of it coming from an American war correspondent who was reporting from the Foreign Correspondents Club in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. As the correspondent was talking, the rumbling sound of explosions could be heard in the background.

And on the matter of parties, meetings and drinking and all that:

My wife: Luan and his wife have invited us to a childs first birthday party.
Me: Their child?
Wife: No, it's the child of  friends of theirs.
Me: Have we met them?
Wife: Who?
Me: The friends of Luan and his wife.
Wife: No.
Me: So why are they inviting us to someone else childs birthday?
Wife. Oh they probably think we'll bring some money along.

Thank you for your kind words.  Like most Soldiers, I have a deep interest in History and have made a fairly serious study of it. I do enjoy the company of Soldiers, especially those who fought on either side of the VN War.

I was a Sailor MM2(E-5) setting just this side of the Cambodian Border, Jun 1970 to Nov 1971, on the Mekong River doing various jobs including Advisor.  I finished up at Nha Be in Mar 1972.

Eventually, back in America after being discharged from the USN, in Japan and getting evacuated from Sai Gon, 18 April 1975, I joined, what we call, the "National Guard." I believe that you call it the "Territorial Forces" and retired as a Staff Sargent(E-6) in 1995.

Sam

Yep!

Again, thank you, Master...   See?   ..you explain (it all) without even trying.

There is always a kernel of truth in good humour: read the joke about 'The store that sold husbands'   ..and its contrasting value in the store that sold wives.    Pinpoint accuracy in that floors 4 & 5 were never visited...    Ensure you have tissues & continence pads at hand...

'Money Number One'   by Neil Hutchison (should be) compulsory reading for EVERYONE attempting to understand the 'Asian Mindset'.  ..or should that be 'Women' the world over..?

That it has been banned in both Thailand and the Philippines speaks for its Truths: read as the damage it would do to the 'tourist' industry.    Stereotypes strike home here...

Sam,
Thanks for the info, I'll do a bit of reading. It's always good to read more recent sources.

Matt, no chair to be seen.https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=animated+cockaroach+on+back&id=27122B6F273501CD03E7250839C556262FE1ED72&FORM=IQFRBA

MarkinNam wrote:

Matt, no chair to be seen.https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=animated+cockaroach+on+back&id=27122B6F273501CD03E7250839C556262FE1ED72&FORM=IQFRBA

Sorry mate, can't access the link.

If you learn nothing else of the language learn the meet-and-greets and learn how to address people properly. With the m&gs perhaps learn the phase for "that is all of (the language) that I know." People will give you credit for trying  and you will get a lot of help.

The charity group I work with was astounded the first time I attended one of their parties.  When the beer came out, I said "I don't drink."  It was like a panic set in throughout the crowd.  The night progressed, and almost everyone tried to get me to give in.  I figured after that night, and after denying many singular invites from men to go drink beer, they'd give up on me and quit inviting me.  I figure why would anyone want to ruin their experience in this wonderful country, suffering from a hangover.  Especially in the heat.  Forget it.  So after a couple of months of this, they all came to accept the fact, and the water, cola, and other drinks were made readily available anytime we had a get-together.  I understand the culture.  I understand that drinking beer or whatever is almost part of daily life, but my preference for a clear mind overcomes the urge.  So in my humble opinion, I think the best way to enjoy Vietnam and adjust to it, is sans alcohol.  Oh, and if you're wondering if I do know the pleasures of drinking alcohol, I remember this one night, waking up on the floor, and looking up at the bottom of a urinal.................

My advice to an old soldier who wants to go back to see what the country is like now is to stay out of the bars and don't hustle the women. If he falls into those habits he will see nothing and will do nothing he could not do in Chicago or Los Angeles without having to pay for that plane ticket.

jkelly5762 wrote:

The charity group I work with was astounded the first time I attended one of their parties.  When the beer came out, I said "I don't drink."  It was like a panic set in throughout the crowd.  The night progressed, and almost everyone tried to get me to give in.  I figured after that night, and after denying many singular invites from men to go drink beer, they'd give up on me and quit inviting me.  I figure why would anyone want to ruin their experience in this wonderful country, suffering from a hangover.  Especially in the heat.  Forget it.  So after a couple of months of this, they all came to accept the fact, and the water, cola, and other drinks were made readily available anytime we had a get-together.  I understand the culture.  I understand that drinking beer or whatever is almost part of daily life, but my preference for a clear mind overcomes the urge.  So in my humble opinion, I think the best way to enjoy Vietnam and adjust to it, is sans alcohol.  Oh, and if you're wondering if I do know the pleasures of drinking alcohol, I remember this one night, waking up on the floor, and looking up at the bottom of a urinal.................

Good job you weren't drunk! .......

Great info Sam will put them on the must read list
Catch up with you in a few weeks for a chat