Tips and advice to thrive in Vietnam

I drink a little ; but find Coffee my old habit.

Wearing a Kilt around Saigon , I already stand out. Sometimes I like to fit in ; but there are things I love , and I love my Home and heritage. So I live here and try to fit in , but still keep a part of my Scotch , and Welsh , German heritage alive, and with a bad leg anyway  the kilt keeps it cooler.
Fitting in .

Really want to , but some things are just right. Drinking Beer or any alcohol , to cope is not right. I prefer my coffee. On the Eight Day .... God had coffee. Yes I believe it.

In finding your watermark ; remember WHO you are. Always be true, and then have courage.  Show respect and care , show love. You will be fine. My small advice.

Robbie Burns would be proud of you...               

Well spoken ;

I have only been here 3 months , but home is fading away. America is at WAR right now in a civil war over the direction of the Nation. I am deeply troubled by my homeland's divisions.

Here it is simple. I leave all of that garbage behind. God is good. Life is great ~

None of that silly crap is here. I am glad. Vietnam IS different, and I must learn her. yes.  Cheers: Chris.

When in Rome, etc. That is how it works.

Actually..?    Socrates was held to have said he was not a citizen of (Rome or Athens?) but a citizen of the world.    Just like us.    So welcome to a brave new world...     We are all watching the Universe unfolding as it should...

I dont suppose you have a Dudelsac about the place?

I was playing some music of that ilk last Sunday late morning from youtube via my wifes karaoke amp and she rushed in and said 'you can't play that, its music for dead people".

Bazza139 wrote:

Actually..?    Socrates was held to have said he was not a citizen of (Rome or Athens?) but a citizen of the world.    Just like us.    So welcome to a brave new world...     We are all watching the Universe unfolding as it should...

Ahem....

"There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya'
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
SOCRATES, HIMSELF, WAS PERMANENTLY PISSED..."

Allegedly.

[i]Pricilla,
Agreed:
"Have an open minded attitude that accepts the difference in Culture that you will encounter, be patient, let your sense of humour flourish, smile happily and make sure to have a drink with the locals at their local. It also goes down very well if you make a serious attempt to learn Vietnamese."

Yes, do more than attempt to learn Vietnamese, actually explore and learn all you can of the language of the country you are living in. . You will be most pleased you have done so.
(good deeds, blessings,  go a long way in acceptance and mutual understandings in Vietnam)
"nói hành động nhiều hơn"
less talk more action
cảm ơn
thank you
Leaving your shoes, outside world attitudes, at the door: adapt, involve, comprehend, respect, loving kindness compassion, contribute to greater understandings.
do not judge, lest you best judged still,
Blessings,
KimMerrell

That's why there are so many who simply shouldn't leave there lounge room.

gobot wrote:

My new wife's family had a little get-together during Tet. Two uncles and an aunt came over. My wife and her sister produced over a dozen kinds of food. The plates were spread out in the middle of the floor of the front room, and the men gathered around, cross-legged. Ouch. I would describe the conversation as more like yelling than talking. I barely understood anything of course but they were nice. The women found peace and safety similarly huddled in the other room.

The men had assembled a large stack of beer and were very generous with it. I was nursing my ice beer at about a 1-to-three ratio to their refills. I had brought a bottle of wine, a regular red french vin ordinaire that I had been given at christmas. The relative didn't have a wine opener, and gave it to his son. The bottle came back with a wood screw driven into the cork so that it could be pulled out. With ceremony, I was offered a drink in a tiny glass. I sipped it - no, they motioned, throw it back! So I did. Then the (shot) glass was refilled and passed back and forth to each person. After one round, they went back to beer and much animated talk.

A while later my wife rescued me from the hard floor and watery beer and yelling. She told me the men didn't like the wine, it was too weak. Apparently they had never had wine before, which is around 12% alcohol. They thought that I had brought brandy/cognac which is 40% or more.

Moral of the story: it takes time to adjust to a new culture. You learn by doing even if the floor makes you sore and the food looks strange. Plus, it works both ways. I am going to bring them a real wine opener and a sweeter wine next time.

I just re read your post Gobot and realized something .... In Vietnam they call all alcoholic drinks except beer "Wine". So when you turned up wth a bottle of "Wine" they automatically assumed that you had brought brandy or whisky, maybe vodka.

And the gaudier the bottle the better.

I first came across this when we gave a small party a couple of years ago and on finishing the guest list my wife asked me "should we ask them to bring anything?" (Vietnamese guests to a "do" will often bring fish or cooked meet, or sticky rice wrapped in banana leaves etc). Unthinking I replied "ask them to bring a bottle of wine", meaning a bottle of Vin plonk chateau du ordinaire (red or white). And was surprised when half of them turned up with plastic bottles containing what looked like water but was in fact "rice wine" at 50, or 60 proof.

Incidentally, there is no law in Vietnam prohibiting anyone from distilling their own spirits, although if you sell your rice "wine" whisky, gin or whatever you are supposed to register with the local Peoples Committee.

So, yes, adjusting to a culture takes time and the ability to spot pitfalls that trap the unwary. Beware also of snake wine. No, not the bottle of booze with a couple of snakes in it, but the newspaper wrapped bottle that contains equal measures of snakes blood and 60 proof alcohol - or the "Deer Wine" - deer blood similarly mixed with 60 proof alcohol.

I was working in the mekong Delta a couple of years ago and was taken by some of our local staff to a small restaurant somewhere near Tra Vin. Inside the restaurant was a large fish tank full of murky looking liquid.

"Bear Wine" said the restaurant owner in response to my question, and: "very good for the joints". He lifted the lid of the tank and shone a torch inside and I could just make out the shape of a bear, fur and all about the size of a medium sized German Shepherd dog, laying in the bottom of the tank. Dipping a glass into the murky liquid he offered me a drink, which I declined, much to the amusement of my colleagues.

When I am offered ruou it is usually in vikoda bottles. It is rice derived and always good, often made in the back yard. I never ask or accept a refill. The last thing  I want to be is not in control of my tongue.

I have sampled ginseng wine. In the 5 liter jug it looked pretty evil but was, in fact, quite good.  The bear wine would not hurt you. The alcohol  neutralizes any pathogens.

Good deeds.  Yes. Just lend a hand when you see that someone needs some help. Very few cultures on earth see any random aid offered to someone who is not kin. If you pick up something someone has dropped and hand it back, or put it up where it was to go, or prop up a tottering load while the driver gets it better secured to his xe may, in Viet Nam, you identify yourself as an American and will receive smiles and much appreciation. Apparently Russians and Australians don't offer a hand.

cafengocmy wrote:

I have sampled ginseng wine. In the 5 liter jug it looked pretty evil but was, in fact, quite good.  The bear wine would not hurt you. The alcohol  neutralizes any pathogens.

I know. But still..... And I felt sorry for the bear. They did give me a small bottle of the murky liquid to take away with me with instructions to "massage it into your knees"  (everyone who knows me knows that my knees are creaking arthritic hell joints).

As a matter of cultural courtesy I did massage it into my knee joints when I got back to the hotel (I'll try (almost) anything once). Alas there were no effects other than it made my kneecaps feel cold and the fumes made me feel a bit dizzy.

Somewhere the spirit of a long dead bear sniggered.

My sister-in-law brews a decent to excellent Cashew Wine from the Cashew fruit. We have a few trees on the Farm and I enjoy light drinking on occasion. I will admit that their is a bunch of "Drunken Sailor" attitude in Viet Nam. Been a Sailor, retired a Soldier, "Vinum est in sua veritate." In wine their is truth.

The point of the heavy drinking is to find out who you really are and give you a chance to understand who they really are. This is a good and sometimes pleasant way of being interrogated. Been through the same sort of thing at the VFW Bar.

I've been somewhat mangling the Spanish that I learned as a teen in spending a Summer in Mexico and have been thinking that what I've been saying was Latin. Anyway Google has a translate Latin option and I think that I got the Latin right this time.

My 2 Xu

Sam

I spent some 22 years in the military...air and surface side...I can actually count the number of times I've been in a bar to have a drink on both hands.  This doesn't count the number of times I've attended specific functions at the CPO and "O" Clubs. 
I have never seen the reason to use drugs or alcohol as an escape from reality.  I'll have a glass of wine or mixed drink with a meal and/or a shot of the Vietnamese whiskey or a half glass of beer but only one; then I'm done.  I really do not understand the stupidity of being drunk, loud, arrogant and outright rude.  Another reason why after about 30 to 40 minutes I have left the social events here or never attend.
The number-one reason that in Vietnam, I do not 'socialize' is due to the number of places that allow the increased level of music (noise)!  It is also due to the social order of importance of those who use the mobile devices...I really don't care to be listening to someone yelling on a phone. 
Yes, this may be part of their present way of life...I'm not here to change it, only to help educated those who care to be a part of other cultures and practices. 
I was never a 'game' player in the US at any time, nor will I change to be one here in Vietnam.  I'll be more than happy to buy someone a drink, but don't be surprised if I only have a Sprite...I already know who I am...

Anthony64 wrote:

I spent some 22 years in the military...air and surface side...I can actually count the number of times I've been in a bar to have a drink on both hands.  This doesn't count the number of times I've attended specific functions at the CPO and "O" Clubs. 
I have never seen the reason to use drugs or alcohol as an escape from reality.  I'll have a glass of wine or mixed drink with a meal and/or a shot of the Vietnamese whiskey or a half glass of beer but only one; then I'm done.  I really do not understand the stupidity of being drunk, loud, arrogant and outright rude.  Another reason why after about 30 to 40 minutes I have left the social events here or never attend.
The number-one reason that in Vietnam, I do not 'socialize' is due to the number of places that allow the increased level of music (noise)!  It is also due to the social order of importance of those who use the mobile devices...I really don't care to be listening to someone yelling on a phone. 
Yes, this may be part of their present way of life...I'm not here to change it, only to help educated those who care to be a part of other cultures and practices. 
I was never a 'game' player in the US at any time, nor will I change to be one here in Vietnam.  I'll be more than happy to buy someone a drink, but don't be surprised if I only have a Sprite...I already know who I am...

Mines a Jasmine IPA please - and please feel free to drink or not drink as you please. Rest assured that I do not talk loudly per mobile phone - in fact I  usually turn it off if going social. Drunk, arrogant and rude? Well I am not usually. In fact I can't remember the last time I was ......

I also try to leave after 40 mins or so and detest loud music (unless it is AC DC, Rolling Stones). See you in the bar 

70 years old wrote:

My sister-in-law brews a decent to excellent Cashew Wine from the Cashew fruit. We have a few trees on the Farm and I enjoy light drinking on occasion. I will admit that their is a bunch of "Drunken Sailor" attitude in Viet Nam. Been a Sailor, retired a Soldier, "Vinum est in sua veritate." In wine their is truth.

The point of the heavy drinking is to find out who you really are and give you a chance to understand who they really are. This is a good and sometimes pleasant way of being interrogated. Been through the same sort of thing at the VFW Bar.

I've been somewhat mangling the Spanish that I learned as a teen in spending a Summer in Mexico and have been thinking that what I've been saying was Latin. Anyway Google has a translate Latin option and I think that I got the Latin right this time.

My 2 Xu

Sam

Cashew wine? From the cashew apples that everyone here throws way, right? You have given me an idea. I am going to try to get some cashew apples. About 3lb should do it - and about 1lb of sugar. I'll let you know.

".. in Viet Nam, you identify yourself as an American and will receive smiles and much appreciation. Apparently Russians and Australians don't offer a hand."

Whew!!

  ..how lucky are we (all?) not to be racist..?   Or Russian.  Or Australian.  or even American..?

Bazza139 wrote:

".. in Viet Nam, you identify yourself as an American and will receive smiles and much appreciation. Apparently Russians and Australians don't offer a hand."

Whew!!

  ..how lucky are we (all?) not to be racist..?   Or Russian.  Or Australian.  or even American..?

Steady Tiger .....

eodmatt wrote:

70 years old wrote:

My sister-in-law brews a decent to excellent Cashew Wine from the Cashew fruit. We have a few trees on the Farm and I enjoy light drinking on occasion. I will admit that their is a bunch of "Drunken Sailor" attitude in Viet Nam. Been a Sailor, retired a Soldier, "Vinum est in sua veritate." In wine their is truth.

The point of the heavy drinking is to find out who you really are and give you a chance to understand who they really are. This is a good and sometimes pleasant way of being interrogated. Been through the same sort of thing at the VFW Bar.

I've been somewhat mangling the Spanish that I learned as a teen in spending a Summer in Mexico and have been thinking that what I've been saying was Latin. Anyway Google has a translate Latin option and I think that I got the Latin right this time.

My 2 Xu

Sam

Cashew wine? From the cashew apples that everyone here throws way, right? You have given me an idea. I am going to try to get some cashew apples. About 3lb should do it - and about 1lb of sugar. I'll let you know.

A good vintage starts at about 2 months. The wine is also rather sweet.

You can make it less sweet by using a wine yeast with more alcohol tolerance

Do they have liquor stores around every corner like they do in the USA or just "State" liquor stores spread around?

There aren't any. In the big cities there are wine shops where everything is quite highly priced. But you can buy moonshine in just about any shop, there are no laws here about distilling your own. The supermarkets sell wine, beer and spirits, most corner stores sell beer.

"Big-C" has a liquor selection, as do a number of the department store chains. 12 year old Chivas is around 900,000 VND, 18 year old is around 1,700,000 VND 750ml

eodmatt wrote:

I just re read your post Gobot and realized something .... In Vietnam they call all alcoholic drinks except beer "Wine". So when you turned up wth a bottle of "Wine" they automatically assumed that you had brought brandy or whisky, maybe vodka.

I see! Well anyway, I learned my lesson. Next time I'll leave the vino at home for me only. Maybe I'll try bringing something different like Grand Marnier, Sambuca, Bailey's, etc. They like sweet here, and maybe haven't had many liqueurs.

Once upon a time American joke.

"Momie! Momie! Where does milk come from?"

"Why the supermarket naturally."

"Yea. That kid next door is really stupid. He said it came from cows."

Well written.   Welcome to the world of common cents.

Sadly, the more obvious, the easier to ignore...    But most of us mean well.       

In '03 I was walking along the road  being harassed by xe may drivers that were insisting that I needed to ride. They could not fathom a foreigner that was walking by preference. I caught up to an oxcart that was going my direction and asked the driver if I could ride with him a ways. He said sure and I got up with him while the cart was still moving at its ox pace. The guys on the scoots zoomed off with expressions of disgust.  I rode with the oxcart until it turned off he highway, thanked the driver and descended.

Eat the pho anywhere you find it. Just don't eat the uncooked vegetables that come with it unless you are in a Japanese or Western hotel and if you are in one of those why did you bother to come here anyway?
Also don't eat fruits that are not peeled or anything that has been rinsed in the local water and not then cooked. Don't eat snails at all. On a return to Cam Duc a few years ago a woman I had met had promised me the very best   Vietnamese meal  when I came back. The household put out probably a month's income to give me a great meal. Unfortunately much of it was uncooked vegetables. I simply could not tell Trang that I would not eat what she had prepared. I paid for it for a week.  It was worth it, considering, but after that wherever I go I make sure that the people I meet know that foreigners can't eat uncooked stuff-  something about religion or something.

Crossing the street in Sai Gon:
Its easy if you keep your wits about you. Just maintain a steady pace and don't step in front of anything with more than two wheels. With my first experience, I watched others to see how they did. I saw that there were no bodies in the street and did likewise.  As surely as you panic and try to dodge you will get hit. You have become unpredictable.  There seems to be no concept of road rage here as we know it in America. Everyone at all is just trying to get from here to there without being hit or hitting someone. There are no spasms of revenge for being "cut off" or having to shift over unexpectedly. You just keep on keeping on. NO ONE DELIBERATELY TRIES TO DAMAGE ANYONE ELSE. It wastes time.

cafengocmy wrote:

Crossing the street in Sai Gon:
Its easy if you keep your wits about you. Just maintain a steady pace and don't step in front of anything with more than two wheels. With my first experience, I watched others to see how they did. I saw that there were no bodies in the street and did likewise.  As surely as you panic and try to dodge you will get hit. You have become unpredictable.  There seems to be no concept of road rage here as we know it in America. Everyone at all is just trying to get from here to there without being hit or hitting someone. There are no spasms of revenge for being "cut off" or having to shift over unexpectedly. You just keep on keeping on. NO ONE DELIBERATELY TRIES TO DAMAGE ANYONE ELSE. It wastes time.

Mostly, I like this comment. But some facts get inconveniently involved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c … death_rate

Country    Road fatalities    Road fatalities    Road fatalities    Road fatalities
    100,000 people       100,000 vehicles        bn km                             Total 2013
Vietnam        24.5                    55                         n/a                              22,419
USA                  10.6                    12.9                         7.1                             34,064

Note, the USA has roughly 3.5 times the population of Viet Nam and far less than twice the number of  Total Road fatalities.

Also note, some Vietnamese drivers do drink and drive and some Vietnamese drivers also hold cell phone conversations while driving. I do not trust intoxicated or distracted Drivers to look out for my safety when crossing a road. In addition to the suggestions listed in the previous post, "absolute situational awareness is also desperately needed for the pedestrian."

Pet gripe, Pedestrians walking on the roadway with their backs to oncoming traffic. Back in the late 1940's USA, while attending kindergarten, I had this rime drilled into my head, "The right side is the Left Side and the Right Side is suicide." I wonder how many tens of thousands Vietnamese have been needlessly killed over the years for not following that rule.

Sam

7 yr old...one thing that really gets under my skin is...not to be able to actually walk on many of the sidewalks and having to walk in the streets of Saigon.  I've walked from Dist's 4, 8, 12 to downtown Saigon and just far too many motorbikes parked on the sidewalks as well as shop owners wares and tables...I usually waited until after 10 pm to walk the streets or venture out. Why try to shop when you can't do any 'window shopping' for fear of being run over!!  I quite looking many years back...
The other part of this is, even when walking on the same side of 'oncoming' traffic...there is always someone coming up from behind you in the street or on the sidewalk!  The Police don't care either and act the same!

I take things as they are and do not wish anything to be different. The changes will come. You see that the traffic anarchy is being addressed. The authorities are not trying to force millions of people to change their ways by fining or jailing everyone they can catch. You can see that new habits are being formed by making the desired patterns the easiest course to follow, as with the extra lanes divided off from the main travel lanes on the big streets and the barriers down the centerlines to channel people into the desired flow patterns. They cannot and they will not try to rationalize it all by decree. You stay here because you are drawn to this place, no?  Why do you stay if you yearn for it to all be as it is back home?

OH...no desire to 'be back home'.  Reason I left districts downtown and went to district 12...quite...less traffic.  Now in DaNang, much less traffic and beautiful beaches...a block and a half from the Bay and miles to walk with little thought of being hit by a motorbike.  Especially on the beaches between DaNang and Hoi An.  Why am I 'drawn' here...the cost of living, the beaches, quiet and weather...

cafengocmy wrote:

I take things as they are and do not wish anything to be different. The changes will come. You see that the traffic anarchy is being addressed. The authorities are not trying to force millions of people to change their ways by fining or jailing everyone they can catch. You can see that new habits are being formed by making the desired patterns the easiest course to follow, as with the extra lanes divided off from the main travel lanes on the big streets and the barriers down the centerlines to channel people into the desired flow patterns. They cannot and they will not try to rationalize it all by decree. You stay here because you are drawn to this place, no?  Why do you stay if you yearn for it to all be as it is back home?

As a significant fraction of the population's income comes from sidewalk business, and the loss of these businesses would be a catastrophe for these families and a disaster to the economy, I agree with you. Leave the sidewalk businesses alone, for at least the rest of my lifetime.

I even agree that one point in time, it made sense, to have traffic and pedestrians moving in the same direction on each side of the street. My point is, why keep needlessly killing off pedestrians when a bit of education as to the differance between the safe side of the street for pedestrians and the suicide side of the street for pedestrians shows the rather obvious differance. This is something that can and should be taught by school teachers to students and should also be seen as public service adds on TV. This is what happened before I was born 71 years ago in America. It has significantly saved pedestrian lives in America at almost no cost.
Sam

70 years old wrote:

cafengocmy wrote:

Crossing the street in Sai Gon:
Its easy if you keep your wits about you. Just maintain a steady pace and don't step in front of anything with more than two wheels. With my first experience, I watched others to see how they did. I saw that there were no bodies in the street and did likewise.  As surely as you panic and try to dodge you will get hit. You have become unpredictable.  There seems to be no concept of road rage here as we know it in America. Everyone at all is just trying to get from here to there without being hit or hitting someone. There are no spasms of revenge for being "cut off" or having to shift over unexpectedly. You just keep on keeping on. NO ONE DELIBERATELY TRIES TO DAMAGE ANYONE ELSE. It wastes time.

Mostly, I like this comment. But some facts get inconveniently involved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c … death_rate

Country    Road fatalities    Road fatalities    Road fatalities    Road fatalities
    100,000 people       100,000 vehicles        bn km                             Total 2013
Vietnam        24.5                    55                         n/a                              22,419
USA                  10.6                    12.9                         7.1                             34,064

Note, the USA has roughly 3.5 times the population of Viet Nam and far less than twice the number of  Total Road fatalities.

Also note, some Vietnamese drivers do drink and drive and some Vietnamese drivers also hold cell phone conversations while driving. I do not trust intoxicated or distracted Drivers to look out for my safety when crossing a road. In addition to the suggestions listed in the previous post, "absolute situational awareness is also desperately needed for the pedestrian."

Pet gripe, Pedestrians walking on the roadway with their backs to oncoming traffic. Back in the late 1940's USA, while attending kindergarten, I had this rime drilled into my head, "The right side is the Left Side and the Right Side is suicide." I wonder how many tens of thousands Vietnamese have been needlessly killed over the years for not following that rule.

Sam

Sam, The problem here is that (my wife tells me) it is the LAW in Vietnam when walking along a road with no footpath (sidewalk), pedestrians must face the way the traffic is going (i.e. have their backs to the traffic).

Whether or not this is another of those laws, like the "it's illegal for a Vietnamese woman to share a room with a foreigner or to live with a foreigner if they aren't married" (i.e. bull shine) or not I don't know. But the majority of them do indeed walk along roads with their backs to the traffic.

eodmatt

Pushing my wife's wheel-chair to and from the hospital has caused one middle-aged woman to inform me that, "the Vietnamese way is is to walk with traffic." As getting my wife into any vehicle including an Ambulance generally causes physical injury, I'll keep pushing her wheel-chair against traffic the 730 m to the hospital.

As I have seen dozens of Police Officers, while pushing my wife's wheel chair against traffic, my guess is that it is either a B.S. Law or they think that I'm doing the safest thing for my wife and ignore enforcing the Law

Sam

There are programs out there on the television, billboards, and even in school...what about all the road rules in their mindless auto and motorbike requirements for their license to be on the road...Even the police do not abide by such!  If I remember correctly, there were even 'pictures' on how to make turns, directions for riding and even about not driving on 'sidewalks'....

"NO ONE DELIBERATELY TRIES TO DAMAGE ANYONE ELSE".  This I actually agree with...reason is no one is paying any attention to what is going on around them!  The old term "Tunnel Vision".  They whip out of side streets like there is no tomorrow never slowing or looking to see if anyone else is there. When first arriving here, in Hanoi, I used my foot several times to push others either away or off the road...and never looked back!  I've even dinged a couple 4 wheel taxis with my helmet for doing stupid things and not paying attention!

You write as if you are still enframed in the European or American context. The awareness of surroundings seems to be much more advanced than I have seen anywhere in America. Most Americans don't know where they actually are on the road within I would guess 20 yards and an American who is not a long experienced truck driver would not dare to pass through an opening with less than 2 feet of clearance on either side.. Here scoots and buses routinely come within centimeters of each other in calculated moves. The accident rate which seems so high is not quite so bad when you understand that Vietnamese are on their wheels quite a bit more than Americans are. The rate per mile traveled is probably less serious than the rate per population. I ride a lot in this traffic. It was daunting at first but I learned the signals and every move or change is signaled to the relevant parties. All that tooting and constant hand motion makes eminent sense to the riders and drivers. Their ears as well as heir eyes tell them exactly where everyone around them is and what each is about to do.. I hear about that terrible accident rate but I have seen only a couple of accidents.